Should religion be taught in schools?

DingChavez

Yes, in history class.

Freddie59

Birroc wrote: »

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful[/FONT][FONT=georgia, bookman old style, palatino linotype, book antiqua, palatino, trebuchet ms, helvetica, garamond, sans-serif, arial, verdana, avante garde, century gothic, comic sans ms, times, times new roman, serif]
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Petty snobbery.

Pace2008

paulmr wrote: »

Such negativity and unhappiness i feel so sorry for you that you have nothing more to do with your time than recall a few moments from your religious education which you were failed to be educated correctly on or maybe you were always so negative that you failed to listen!!! Life is full of symbols look around you! A wedding ring for example a noose aroud your neck or a message of love and commitment? you decide. You asked about where do we draw the line? answer my friend is when you are informed enough to know for yourself what makes you fulfilled in life. Catholics and our history indeed not perfect but important to a lot of people young and old an in todays world people need hope. You reminded us all of the story of the loaves and fish one of the greatest miracles performed by Jesus ; for your own information Jesus sat down with thousands of people also looking for hope at a time of political unrest and deprivation,who sat together on a hill side with men and women Jews, samaritans and Gentiles who never spoke to each other as a rule and yet they shared their food. There is nothing more sociable than sharing a meal with your friends a message he carried to the end.Religious beliefs should be nourished and respected. We all get confused at times and as you correctly mentioned going from a religion class where you are asked to have an open and accepting mind to a practical subject can be confusing but this should be a positive learning experience of asking questions and opening your mind to the world. Science is wonderful and where would we be without such advances but science and religion are not enemies and with so many ethical and moral issues it takes a person of a clear understanding of what it means to be human and to suffer to hurt and to live to help us all to deal with our lives.. Jesus,Moses , Muhammad, Siddharta Gautama all taught about the preciousness of life and its challenges (many difficult) but no where in science or technology can we find "why" either.Jesus we believe as Christians rose from the dead howver as a human he suffered such a horrific death imposed by other humans with a clear disregard for human life. Jesus resurrection whether you believe in it or not shows us that as humans we are not without hope.We live in such a diverse world that we need to embrace and allow all people to be the best that they can and i honestly believe two classes of religious education a week in our schools should be approached in an open accepting and informative manner. Open to all issues beliefs and questions with a knowledge that we cant know everything!! accepting of each other our opinions values morals and traditions. informed on all religious traditions in as far as time allows.Above all the time needs to be used just like every other school suject to prepare in as much as possible for life.You need more faith in our young ,innocent and impressionable young people of the future. Best of luck if you do decide to start your own religion in the morning i hope they are still discussing you in 2011 years time....

No benevolent deity could have allowed this wall of text come into existence. That's it settled - there is no God.

Cú Giobach

Freddie59 wrote: »

:rolleyes: There are many who would disagree.

Whatever ones stance on this issue, that was a great response to a post, and clearly showed the illogicality of a certain belief.

Short memories, or to quote an old saying - 'eaten bread is soon forgotten'. Many of the detractors and mockers of the Almighty creator and religious schools on here wouldn't have the intelligence to do so were it not for the very same schools. Irony. Ya gotta love it.:)

School doesn't give someone intelligence, it fosters and helps someone use whatever intelligence they have.
I for one will never forget the beatings from a certain so called "man of god" in a catholic school, and going to a catholic school is no reason to spend the rest of ones life pandering to the irrational and illogical beliefs of the religious.

paulmr

You obviously do not have the intelligence to understand what i dont have the time to explain. Good luck in life and may the true benevolant God you are giving up on allow you clear vision in all you do.

Aldebaran

paulmr wrote: »

You obviously do not have the intelligence to understand what i dont have the time to explain. Good luck in life and may the true benevolant God you are giving up on allow you clear vision in all you do.

Which benevolent God is this now?

Pace2008

paulmr wrote: »

You obviously do not have the intelligence to understand what i dont have the time to explain. Good luck in life and may the true benevolant God you are giving up on allow you clear vision in all you do.

It has little to do with intelligence and lots to do with the fact that you've just spewed out some stream-of-conciousness babble whilst wilfully forgetting about the concept of paragraphs. It's literally uncomfortable to look at your post, never mind read it.

Pace2008

partyatmygaff wrote: »

I

You'd be quite right in saying that a mere man would not be able to do any of that. As man, a product of existence is limited by nature, God, the creator of existence is not limited by natural laws.

I'm generally not one to flippantly dismiss Biblical stories as "fairy tales " (even if I think they're all made up), as I appreciate the strong cultural influences that lead people to hold them as true.

However, could you at least shift your perspective a little and understand how the notion that otherwise-intelligent people actually believe there was a being who could magically make loaves of bread multiply might seem completely absurd?

James G

If you want religion taught because of morals, you've misunderstood where human morals come from.

The bible is full of slavery and discrimination and all round violence, all of which tend to be deemed 'bad' now days. If a god you believed in suddenly told you to start killing people or raping under age kids, I'm sure you wouldn't do it, likely for the reason that it's 'bad'.

partyatmygaff

Pace2008 wrote: »

However, could you at least shift your perspective a little and understand how the notion that otherwise-intelligent people actually believe there was a being who could magically make loaves of bread multiply might seem completely absurd?

Why is it completely absurd? If said being is indeed the creator of all existence then surely something as simple as that cannot be out of their reach. If a mere man claimed to have fed thousands using only five loaves and two fishes then I would more than likely not believe them. God, by definition is not simply a mere man.

You fail to make the distinction between man and God which doesn't make any sense. The creator is not the created and is not limited by the nature of their creation.

partyatmygaff

James G wrote: »

If a god you believed in suddenly told you to start killing people or raping under age kids

lol

Any chance you could tell us where God instructed humanity to kill people and rape under age children? Or is it just something you made up along the way to suit your argument?

flutterflye

partyatmygaff wrote: »

lol

Any chance you could tell us where God instructed humanity to kill people and rape under age children? Or is it just something you made up along the way to suit your argument?

You completely missed the guys point!

Why do the religious nuts never make sense in general debate on these threads?


(*religious nuts* does not refer to all religious people btw)

dvpower

partyatmygaff wrote: »

lol

Any chance you could tell us where God instructed humanity to kill people and rape under age children? Or is it just something you made up along the way to suit your argument?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binding_of_Isaac
Human sacrifice ftw

James G

partyatmygaff wrote: »

lol

Any chance you could tell us where God instructed humanity to kill people and rape under age children? Or is it just something you made up along the way to suit your argument?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/if

philologos

dvpower wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binding_of_Isaac
Human sacrifice ftw

The point of that was exactly a moral one. God did this to prove a point. He wasn't going to expect human sacrifice from Abraham, rather He Himself would ransom mankind from the weight of their sin. In that region at that time and (there is archaeological evidence to back this up if you look into the Phoenicians) actually offered child sacrifice to their gods. God stood out and said no to this practice by stopping Abraham. The point was precisely to show mankind that He didn't endorse that.

Indeed, if He did allow it to happen He would be going back on His promise, to make Abraham's children and all who later because His adoptive children through Christ great (Genesis 15, 17, Galatians 3 - 4, Romans 4).

Jackobyte

I think morality should be taught (Catholic parables are good to that extent) but Catholicism shouldn't be taught as "this is the proper religion". I think Communion/Confirmation should be separated from the teaching or religion class. The good vs. bad morality aspect should continued to be studied as it shapes decent individuals.

Pace2008

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Why is it completely absurd? If said being is indeed the creator of all existence then surely something as simple as that cannot be out of their reach. If a mere man claimed to have fed thousands using only five loaves and two fishes then I would more than likely not believe them. God, by definition is not simply a mere man.

You fail to make the distinction between man and God which doesn't make any sense. The creator is not the created and is not limited by the nature of their creation.

I'm not failing to make trhe distinction, which is why I referred to Jesus as a being rather than a man. I still think you should be able to appreciate how some people might find tales about a supernatural entity performing magic party tricks a bit silly.

Cú Giobach

philologos wrote: »

The point of that was exactly a moral one. God did this to prove a point. He wasn't going to expect human sacrifice from Abraham, rather He Himself would ransom mankind from the weight of their sin. In that region at that time and (there is archaeological evidence to back this up if you look into the Phoenicians) actually offered child sacrifice to their gods. God stood out and said no to this practice by stopping Abraham. The point was precisely to show mankind that He didn't endorse that.

Why didn't he just tell them to stop. It seems he used to chat a lot to people around that time.
He also didn't seem to have a problem with the animal sacrifice later, had to have his fix of blood apparently.

partyatmygaff

flutterflye wrote: »

You completely missed the guys point!

I don't think I have, no.

Why do the religious nuts never make sense in general debate on these threads?

Which "religious nuts"? In AH, there are always more atheists than there are theists who post in these threads. Surely you could name a few of these nuts and perhaps describe why they don't make any sense?

James G wrote: »

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/if

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/and

Conjunctions rock.

Cookie33

I think it should be taught in schools. At least let the child be aware of religion especially if parents don't bring them to church. They can make their own minds up when their older if they still want to continue learning religion or to go to church

philologos

Cú Giobach wrote: »

Why didn't he just tell them to stop. It seems he used to chat a lot to people around that time.
He also didn't seem to have a problem with the animal sacrifice later, had to have his fix of blood apparently.

God has made it plain in our consciences as to what is good and evil. People can still nonetheless choose to reject Him and do what is evil. Evil as far as I see it is simply what is is opposed to God's standards which are given to us for our best interest.

As for animal sacrifice it was in place precisely to give the Israelites an idea of the ultimate sacrifice of God Himself for mankind to make the clear point of forgiveness. Animal sacrifice was a precursor to Christ's crucifixion and resurrection as far as I would see it anyway.

dvpower

philologos wrote: »

The point of that was exactly a moral one. God did this to prove a point. He wasn't going to expect human sacrifice from Abraham, rather He Himself would ransom mankind from the weight of their sin. In that region at that time and (there is archaeological evidence to back this up if you look into the Phoenicians) actually offered child sacrifice to their gods. God stood out and said no to this practice by stopping Abraham. The point was precisely to show mankind that He didn't endorse that.

Indeed, if He did allow it to happen He would be going back on His promise, to make Abraham's children and all who later because His adoptive children through Christ great (Genesis 15, 17, Galatians 3 - 4, Romans 4).

Of course God had his reasons to order the murder of Issac. God always has good reason to do what most normal people would view as abhorrent - meanwhile poor Issac is sitting on the sacrifice table waiting for death.

seanbmc

After just finishing school last year all I can say is that religion class was the biggest waste of time that I have ever come across in secondary school.

What my class consisted of was a room full of 20 people, all of them with not one ounce of interest in the subject. And most teachers had realised this and just gave up after a while and just let us watch movies in the class, talk etc.

That said, I have come accross people who are interested in the subject, so I think that people should be given an option to learn the subject if they wish. I spent my time in religion class doing homework or just talking. This time could have been spent doing something else. (It was also the last class of the day, and people would just go home).

On a primary level the decsion is up to the parents, if you don't want your child taught religion, don't send them to a Catholic school.

philologos

dvpower wrote: »

Of course God had his reasons to order the murder of Issac. God always has good reason to do what most normal people would view as abhorrent - meanwhile poor Issac is sitting on the sacrifice table waiting for death.

It's hardly abhorrent if God is simply saying that these other tribes may carry out human sacrifice but ultimately that it is not acceptable to Him.

Indeed, God won't expect anything from us other than to put our trust and faith in Him, repenting for what we've done wrong and aiming to live for what is right and true by following Him.

Cú Giobach

philologos wrote: »

God has made it plain in our consciences as to what is good and evil. People can still nonetheless choose to reject Him and do what is evil. Evil as far as I see it is simply what is is opposed to God's standards which are given to us for our best interest.

As for animal sacrifice it was in place precisely to give the Israelites an idea of the ultimate sacrifice of God Himself for mankind to make the clear point of forgiveness. Animal sacrifice was a precursor to Christ's crucifixion and resurrection as far as I would see it anyway.

The biggest problem I have with religious people is that their god can do no wrong, everything written down in an ancient book no matter how abhorrent or disgusting (like animal sacrifice) is justified in some way.
In a book as large and wide ranging as the bible anything can be justified, with the consequence of untold suffering down through the ages and more yet to come.

Nervous Wreck

Seachmall wrote: »

Should we learn about religion? Obviously.

Should we be taught which is the right one? No, that's for your parents to do.

Bollocks.

I have no problem with people being religious if they choose to but the fact is that most people don't choose religion: they have it forced upon them from a young age by school or parents and are indoctrinated from then. One of the first questions a nurse asks the parents of a newborn is the child's religion. How the fuck would anyone know the child's religion before it can form rational thoughts? The question they're really asking is "What religion will be forced upon this child?" No parent should decide their child's religious beliefs. Sure when I first told my parents I was atheist, they didn't know what to do/say. They were in shock. It was only a couple years after that that they admitted to holding no religious beliefs of their own. Now that is indoctrination.

dvpower

philologos wrote: »

It's hardly abhorrent if God is simply saying that these other tribes may carry out human sacrifice but ultimately that it is not acceptable to Him.

I think its pretty abhorrent to order someone to sacrifice their child, even if you don't plan to make them go ahead with it.

I understand that he likes to work in mysterious ways, but a simple "Listen lads, human sacrifice is not cool " would have been better.

philologos

Cú Giobach wrote: »

The biggest problem I have with religious people is that their god can do no wrong, everything written down in an ancient book no matter how abhorrent or disgusting (like animal sacrifice) is justified in some way.

I think most people on AH ignore the moral and ethical goodness of the Bible instead resorting to distort a minority which they happen to find disagreeable.

I don't believe that God can do wrong because the definition good and evil isn't independent from Him. Ultimately I believe in Christianity because I earnestly believe that if people followed its principles the world would be a much better place for all people. I couldn't say that if I honestly believed that God were evil.

Cú Giobach wrote: »

In a book as large and wide ranging as the bible anything can be justified, with the consequence of untold suffering down through the ages and more yet to come.

Yeah, apart from the great deal of good that has actually come from it. I don't deny that people can distort Christianity, but I do deny that Christianity in and of itself is evil because simply put it's tripe.

dvpower wrote: »

I think its pretty abhorrent to order someone to sacrifice their child, even if you don't plan to make them go ahead with it.

I understand that he likes to work in mysterious ways, but a simple "Listen lads, human sacrifice is not cool " would have been better.

You may want to question the morality of Abraham rather than the morality of God then.

Zebra3

Jackobyte wrote: »

I think morality should be taught (Catholic parables are good to that extent)

What catholic parables?

flutterflye

partyatmygaff wrote: »

I don't think I have, no.

Well this was what he actually said;

If a god you believed in suddenly told you to start killing people or raping under age kids, I'm sure you wouldn't do it, likely for the reason that it's 'bad'.

Note the phrasing, the use of the word 'if'.
There was no mention of a god or religion telling anyone to kill or rape anyone in history.
It was a question about morals.

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Which "religious nuts"? In AH, there are always more atheists than there are theists who post in these threads. Surely you could name a few of these nuts and perhaps describe why they don't make any sense?

At least I can decipher the militant atheist's posts.
The religious nuts' posts are jibberish, and they seem to continually misinterpret other points of view.