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Your right to an Abortion

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    #242
    Xiney
    Registered Users Posts: 8,085 ✭✭✭Xiney


    As far as I'm concerned, unless I want a baby, a foetus is just a parasite that I refuse to incubate for 9 months. My body, my choice when I want use it to give life.

    I have no problem with any of the graphic images or descriptions of abortion - because I will feel no love or emotional attachment for something I don't want.


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    #243
    teaandtoast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 186 ✭✭teaandtoast


    astrofool wrote: »
    If you want to be shocking, at least post the full list of methods (or link to a site that lists them more comprehensively).

    I was informing people of the abortion procedures..yes they are shocking but they are the facts.


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    #244
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Xiney wrote: »
    As far as I'm concerned, unless I want a baby, a foetus is just a parasite that I refuse to incubate for 9 months. My body, my choice when I want use it to give life.

    I have no problem with any of the graphic images or descriptions of abortion - because I will feel no love or emotional attachment for something I don't want.
    Bloody hell, a parasite, why do you put so little value in human life?


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    #245
    Xiney
    Registered Users Posts: 8,085 ✭✭✭Xiney


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Bloody hell, a parasite, why do you put so little value in human life?

    It's not a human life. Is sperm human life?


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    #246
    beeftotheheels
    Registered Users Posts: 1,675 ✭✭✭beeftotheheels


    teaandtoast wrote: »
    I was informing people of the abortion procedures..yes they are shocking but they are the facts.

    But not chemical abortion, because that's not shocking, so it must not be a fact?:confused:


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    #247
    Michellenman
    Registered Users Posts: 11,195 ✭✭✭✭Michellenman


    teaandtoast wrote: »
    Abortion Methods Described
    Suction Abortion] Used during the first three months of pregnancy - A suction tube (27 times stronger than a home vacuum cleaner) is inserted into the womb. The powerful suction tears the baby apart limb from limb and sucks it from the womb along with the placenta. The baby's remains are deposited into an attached waste bottle.
    Dilation and Curettage (D&C): Used at the end of the third month of pregnancy (approximately 12 weeks) - The cervix is dialated, ring forceps are inserted into the womb and the baby is extracted piece by piece. Then a curette (a sharp knife in a loop shape) is inserted and used to scrape away any of the baby or the placenta that remains. Profuse bleeding follows.
    Dilation and Extraction (D&E): Used after 13 weeks - The cervix is dialated and the unborn child is dismembered with plier-like forceps. Force is needed to pull the baby apart. The instrument is used to seize a leg or other part of the body and then, with a twisting motion, tear it from the baby's body. The baby's spine is snapped and the skull crushed. After the baby parts are removed, they are reassembled outside the womb to be sure all are removed. Frequently baby parts are left inside the mother's womb. This can cause serious complications and sometimes death.



    Thats what happens in abortion..

    Well I think it's safe to say that you've gotten that 'informative' piece from a pro-life Anti-abortion website of some sort :rolleyes:

    How about choosing from a non-bias source next time?


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    #248
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Xiney wrote: »
    It's not a human life. Is sperm human life?
    So when is it human life then? 6 months? The second the child is born?


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    #249
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Michellenman wrote: »
    Well I think it's safe to say that you've gotten that 'informative' piece from a pro-life website of some sort :rolleyes:

    How about choosing from a non-bias source next time?
    Is the information incorrect?


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    #250
    Malari
    Registered Users Posts: 18,150 ✭✭✭✭Malari


    I'm sure if you described open heart surgery people would be similarly grossed out. They just need to know they will be better at the end of the operation. At the end of an abortion you no longer have a foetus in you is all you need to know for some people.


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    #251
    B_Fanatic
    Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭B_Fanatic


    teaandtoast wrote: »
    Abortion Methods Described

    You conveniently leave out that the majority of abortions are done using chemical and pharmaceutical methods. And even the ones that are listed, the fetus is killed using feticide prior to extraction, and only A SMALL number of fetuses are aborted using the method described using the last one. Stop leaving out important information to intensify the inhumanity of these procedures, it's weak.

    You also refer to the fetuses as babies. Get it fixed. Babies are not fetuses.
    teaandtoast wrote: »
    They are the facts and ignorance is bliss to many people

    Hypocrite.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetus
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilation_and_evacuation
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion
    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Is the information incorrect?

    I would consider leaving out important information from a discussion on abortion misleading in the extreme. Unfortunately sour words like 'incorrect' and 'lie' aren't always applicable, but that doesn't make the source in question trustworthy.


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    #252
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Xiney wrote: »
    It's not a human life. Is sperm human life?

    Sperm requires an ova to form a zygote, therefore a sperm is not human life but a prerequisite to it, so it seems.


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    #253
    Silverfish
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,696 Mod ✭✭✭✭Silverfish


    So the MAP is also bad?


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    #254
    Xiney
    Registered Users Posts: 8,085 ✭✭✭Xiney


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    So when is it human life then? 6 months? The second the child is born?

    You didn't answer my question. Is sperm human life? It's mobile. It has the possibility of being (part of) a growing foetus. Or, is it not human life because it is not viable?

    Because a foetus is not viable without me. And if I don't want it, I won't have it.


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    #255
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Xiney wrote: »
    You didn't answer my question. Is sperm human life? It's mobile. It has the possibility of being (part of) a growing foetus. Or, is it not human life because it is not viable?

    Because a foetus is not viable without me. And if I don't want it, I won't have it.
    So when the baby is able to survive outside the womb, it is human life then?

    philo gave a decent answer it seems.

    I cant understand why you would think that a foetus is not human life, in fact I imagine most pro choice people would acknowledge that it is a human life.


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    #256
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    Xiney wrote: »
    You didn't answer my question. Is sperm human life? It's mobile. It has the possibility of being (part of) a growing foetus. Or, is it not human life because it is not viable?

    Because a foetus is not viable without me. And if I don't want it, I won't have it.

    It's viable after 21 weeks without you.

    Sperm is not a human life. It is not an organism. There is no heartbeat.

    My four year old is entirely dependant on me. Would die without me.


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    #257
    Xiney
    Registered Users Posts: 8,085 ✭✭✭Xiney


    it can be viable at 21 weeks in extremely rare cases

    I'd plan to get it out of me asap though - likely with a pill so it'd be like a particularly chunky period.


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    #258
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    ^ Its the how many angels are on the head of a pin argument.


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    #259
    Xiney
    Registered Users Posts: 8,085 ✭✭✭Xiney


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    So when the baby is able to survive outside the womb, it is human life then?

    philo gave a decent answer it seems.

    I cant understand why you would think that a foetus is not human life, in fact I imagine most pro choice people would acknowledge that it is a human life.

    I'm not most pro-choice people, I will admit that.

    I'm pretty much pro-abortion. If you don't want a kid you don't deserve one.


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    #260
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    Xiney wrote: »
    it can be viable at 21 weeks in extremely rare cases

    I'd plan to get it out of me asap though - likely with a pill so it'd be like a particularly chunky period.

    Not anymore. Plenty of babies are being saved at 21 weeks. I took an infant health and safety class with a couple whose baby was saved at 21 weeks.

    I cant even respond to your second sentence.


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    #261
    WesternNight
    Registered Users Posts: 9,286 ✭✭✭WesternNight


    teaandtoast wrote: »
    Thats what happens in abortion..

    Thanks for posting that entirely unbiased account. Because of course we were all under the impression that abortions were just like taking a Panadol for a headache.

    I could give similarly distressing accounts of pregnancies and births, if you want to play that game. But it would be just as unconstructive.


    I really wish people would stop suggesting that women, if given the chance, would have abortions without a second thought. That women who have abortions don't care about life, or babies. That they're selfish and immoral and evil. And the ironic thing is, I've noticed that a lot of the people who are anti-abortion are also among the first to vilify, for example, single mothers (not necessarily on boards, but in general) for having the bad judgement or immorality to have a child without being married. So which is it?? (rhetorical question, as it's kind of off topic!).


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    #262
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,427 ✭✭✭Morag


    Looks like the Pro life batsignal went up and they are call coming out of the woodwork with the type of tactics which they usually try outside the GPO.


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    #263
    Fluorescence
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 8,490 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fluorescence


    I say any time within the first trimester should be legal. At that stage the zygote is still really only sacks of cells. It hasn't yet developed the necessities of human life. AFAIK, it's only after 12 weeks that it's called a foetus, and has the beginnings of cognitive awareness. Before then, it isn't truly a human child. After that it's into a rather gray area and I can't say. Late-term abortions don't seem right to me, but they are very much in the minority and we can't pretend that's what we've legislated against.

    I will say this though: I would rather kill myself than carry an unwanted child to term (edit to add: not being flippant here - I would be genuinely suicidal). More women than you'd think feel the same way. If the "pro-lifers" value human life so much, why don't they value mine? Is conscious-less embryo worth more than I am? It couldn't survive without me, and I wouldn't survive with it.


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    #264
    Xiney
    Registered Users Posts: 8,085 ✭✭✭Xiney


    That's the thing - the same people who are most anti-abortion are also the least interested in helping these young, disadvantaged, often single mothers who have basically just destroyed their chances at a good career & comfortable life.


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    #265
    WesternNight
    Registered Users Posts: 9,286 ✭✭✭WesternNight


    Bob Cratchet wrote: »
    Anyone decided yet ?

    Should "they" be "terminated" at ;

    8 weeks ?


    12 Weeks ?


    15 Weeks ?


    Or 24 Weeks ? (The legal limit in the UK)


    To be honest, there should be no reason to wait until 24, 15, or even 12 weeks to have an abortion. Women should be taking responsibility for their fertility and keeping track of cycles and being in control of their own birth control. If they have unprotected sex and they don't want to have a baby then they should take immediate action. No way in a million years would I wait around for months wondering where my period went.


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    #266
    coffee_cake
    Registered Users Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    teaandtoast wrote: »
    Well i am making a general point. If your mother, or cousin or whoever went ahead and had an abortion then your sister, cousin, friend etc wouldn't exist.

    If your parents hadn't fcuked, you wouldn't exist.
    So what?


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    #267
    seenitall
    Registered Users Posts: 3,721 ✭✭✭seenitall


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Bloody hell, a parasite, why do you put so little value in human life?

    May I answer this?

    Because my internal moral compass tells me that killing a life that has no viability outside my body is completely different in moral terms to killing a viable life or a baby, i.e. it has less value than babies, in and of itself, in my view.

    You might argue that it is convenient for me to hold this view in case an unwanted pregnancy occured, but I don't think that invalidates my opinion in any way. I am entitled to my opinion on this, and I also believe I am entitled to choose to terminate a pregnancy that I don't wish to undergo.

    As Xiney said, my body = my choice as to letting someone feed on it for 9 months, or not.


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    #268
    -Vega-
    Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭-Vega-


    Its about the women, not about an unborn fetus.


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    #269
    Acoshla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,729 ✭✭✭Acoshla


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Bloody hell, a parasite, why do you put so little value in human life?

    Parasite: An organism that lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the host's expense. So biologically speaking a baby is indeed a parasite, I was taught that in Secondary school, it's not that shocking a description.


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    #270
    Xiney
    Registered Users Posts: 8,085 ✭✭✭Xiney


    Mary got pregnant from a kid named Tom that said he was in love
    He said, "Don't worry about a thing, baby doll
    I'm the man you've been dreaming of."
    But 3 months later he say he won't date her or return her calls
    And she swear, "God damn, if I find that man I'm cuttin' off his balls."
    And then she heads for the clinic and
    she gets some static walking through the door
    They call her a killer, and they call her a sinner
    And they call her a whore
    God forbid you ever had to walk a mile in her shoes
    'Cause then you really might know what it's like to have to choose

    Then you really might know what it's like...

    ...


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    #271
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    teaandtoast wrote: »
    Another thing what if your mother decided to not to being you in to the world, or your sister or brothers. How different would your life be without them?

    Do you have any kids in your family like neices and nephews, imagine if your cousin decided not bring them in to the world so they would never exist now.

    Thats ridiculous logic


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