Who can stop traffic

Meteoric

Please forgive me if this has been asked before or in wrong forum.
I was in a hurry today and travelling on a road, that is now not a national road as there is a new motorway, where three guys were trying to get a tractor and trailer out of a field. They flagged me down and I stopped as they tried once, then again to get the tractor out of the field each time reversing into the field. After 15+ minutes waiting for the two attempts I moved past them when the tractor was fully back into the field and got the two gesturing to the person driving the tractor almost walking under the car.
My question is do they have the right to do this, stop people driving on a public road? and do they have the right to intimidate me? I as so glad that I had the doors locked, as a woman on my own I was actually scared.
I know people need to farm and that can mean holding people up for a bit but I thought this was excessive.

Victor

A banksman is entitled to stop traffic, but this seems like the driver was incompetent / over-ambitious and the banksmen were taking a generous interpretation of their right to stop traffic.

Meteoric

Victor wrote: »

A banksman is entitled to stop traffic, but this seems like the driver was incompetent / over-ambitious and the banksmen were taking a generous interpretation of their right to stop traffic.

Thanks for replying, I had no problem stopping initially but thought they were a bit excessive in expecting me to wait for their third try without letting me and the people behind me to pass, driver looked to be about 16

Marcusm

Victor wrote: »

A banksman is entitled to stop traffic, but this seems like the driver was incompetent / over-ambitious and the banksmen were taking a generous interpretation of their right to stop traffic.

i fully agree that drivers should accommodate vehicles in this context; however, is it correct that a banksman has a legal power to stop traffic?

murphhy

Were they banksmen tho as the tractor was being driven forwards out of the field, not reversing?

Anyway though don't let it bother you, they were harmless, just a bit ignorant.

murphhy

Marcusm wrote: »

i fully agree that drivers should accommodate vehicles in this context; however, is it correct that a banksman has a legal power to stop traffic?

Was kinda wondering that myself....i always thought only gardai and any person in charge of animals have a legal power to stop traffic

Kosseegan

A banksman is not entitled to stop traffic. Reversing traffic must give right of way to other traffic.

Zambia

A : Miranda Kerr.

I assume anyone can stop traffic if they have a reasonable excuse to do so.

crotalus667

a banks man (must be quilified) , a garda and i always get the third wrong but i am going to say a lollypop lady , that last one may be wrong but there are deff only 3 any one else is breaking the law and you are not allowed to take traffic directions from them because if they direct you to do some thing that is against the rules of the road (like stopping in the road and halting the progress of other traffic ) you are the one that gets the ticket from the gaurds

Paulw

Customs have the power to stop traffic.

Bosco boy

Paulw wrote: »

Customs have the power to stop traffic.

what powers? Sec109 Rta? And what happens if someone decides to drive on, what's the procedure

angelfire9

From the RSA:

Officials from the Revenue Commissioners including Customs may also stop and examine vehicles.
Your vehicle may also be impounded by a Revenue Official and/or Gardaí.
You may also be stopped by the Gardaí working with Transport Officers
from the Road Safety Authority who will check the Tachograph and
Operator's Licence.

Back when I was learning to drive I thought there were 4 categories regarding who can stop traffic:

1) A Garda
2) An official from the Revenue Commissioners
3) A lollipop lady (or man) (sorry i don't know the proper name is it school traffic warden?)
4) A person in charge of animals

Paulw

http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/garda.html

Their powers, AFAIK, are from the Finance Act, and have changed over the years to give more and more power to Customs officers.

Actually, I just found another thread, taking this discussion - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055381181

slimjimmc

Bosco boy wrote: »

what powers? Sec109 Rta? And what happens if someone decides to drive on, what's the procedure

Sec 86 Finance Act 1995, only when in uniform (they also have powers of arrest in some circumstances). But they can't stop traffic just to allow some farmer pull his tractor out of a field somewhere.

At checkpoints there's often a Garda or two hanging around to go after the fail-to-stoppers. At any time they can follow you until you stop (not sure if they're allowed to enter into a high-speed pursuit though) or have the Gardaí stop/pursue you. Generally Customs are not to be messed with.

Bosco boy

I often seen a georgeous looking woman grind traffic to a halt, does that count?

AG2R

Jedi

slimjimmc

angelfire9 wrote: »

From the RSA:


Back when I was learning to drive I thought there were 4 categories regarding who can stop traffic:

1) A Garda
2) An official from the Revenue Commissioners
3) A lollipop lady (or man) (sorry i don't know the proper name is it school traffic warden?)
4) A person in charge of animals

School traffic warden is correct.
5) any person with a Stop/Go sign who is authorised by the Local Authority.

fasttalkerchat

angelfire9 wrote: »

From the RSA:


Back when I was learning to drive I thought there were 4 categories regarding who can stop traffic:

1) A Garda
2) An official from the Revenue Commissioners
3) A lollipop lady (or man) (sorry i don't know the proper name is it school traffic warden?)
4) A person in charge of animals

I thought that 3 and 4 don't have a legal right. If a lollypop (person) stops you for 15 mins you wouldn't be legally expected not to drive as soon as the road is clear.

fasttalkerchat

Along similar lines some road works speed limits are legally binding but others aren't. If it ends in a 5 it is just a cautionary limit.

geetar

having recently passed a "safe pass" course for construction sites (which, btw is a load of crap)...

i learned that banksmen have the legal right to stop traffic. its the same as if roadworks were going on, those stop and go signs are infact legal traffic lights. if you break them, you can get the same penalty as normal traffic lights. banksmen can also take your reg. and report you to the police.

slimjimmc

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

I thought that 3 and 4 don't have a legal right. If a lollypop (person) stops you for 15 mins you wouldn't be legally expected not to drive as soon as the road is clear.

A school Traffic Warden has full legal authority to stop traffic while they're in uniform and display the Stop sign (lollypop). You're most definitely legally required to remain stopped for however long the warden displays the sign to signal traffic.

The Rules of the Road state you must obey a signal to slow or stop when given by a person in charge of animals. In the RoR the term "must" is used to indicate it is a legal requirement, therefore the person giving the signal does have the legal right.

angelfire9

slimjimmc wrote: »

A school Traffic Warden has full legal authority to stop traffic while they're in uniform and display the Stop sign (lollypop). You're most definitely legally required to remain stopped for however long the warden displays the sign to signal traffic.

The Rules of the Road state you must obey a signal to slow or stop when given by a person in charge of animals. In the RoR the term "must" is used to indicate it is a legal requirement, therefore the person giving the signal does have the legal right.

Oooohhh.... this means I was right
Nice one slimjimmc I kinda knew I wasn't talking out of my hat cos I'm 99% certain it was one of the questions the driving test examiner asked me back in the day
I knew S96 of the 1961 RTA covers school wardens but couldn't find a source to cite in relation to the animals

I've never heard of the "banksman" one
Twas always Revenue, boys in blue, lollipop person & person with animals as far as I can remember

Marcusm

geetar wrote: »

having recently passed a "safe pass" course for construction sites (which, btw is a load of crap)...

i learned that banksmen have the legal right to stop traffic. its the same as if roadworks were going on, those stop and go signs are infact legal traffic lights. if you break them, you can get the same penalty as normal traffic lights. banksmen can also take your reg. and report you to the police.

The course was crap but you believe their advice on the law?

My research and the responses to the thread lead me to a confirmed belief that there is no such authority for a "banksman" which is hardly surprising as there is no control over them (unlike Garda, Revenue officials and school crossing officers).

geetar

Marcusm wrote: »

The course was crap but you believe their advice on the law?

My research and the responses to the thread lead me to a confirmed belief that there is no such authority for a "banksman" which is hardly surprising as there is no control over them (unlike Garda, Revenue officials and school crossing officers).

no. the course itself was crap because the majority of the stuff was common sense. it cost €100 and lasted 8 hours.

all of the information was 100% correct, its just a pain to do it.


you're misinformed about banksmen.

when it comes to building sites/road works, they are the ones trained. they understand the dangers and it is their obligation to ensure the safety of the public. gardai do not know these dangers and are not present, so yes, the banksmen have the legal right to control traffic to ensure public safety.

Paulw

geetar wrote: »

so yes, the banksmen have the legal right to control traffic to ensure public safety.

Can you cite a link to that? I can't find anything in the RTA that gives brinksman the legal right to stop traffic.

barman linen

angelfire9 wrote: »

From the RSA:


Back when I was learning to drive I thought there were 4 categories regarding who can stop traffic:

1) A Garda
2) An official from the Revenue Commissioners
3) A lollipop lady (or man) (sorry i don't know the proper name is it school traffic warden?)
4) A person in charge of animals

What about Airport 'Police' ?

Marcusm

barman linen wrote: »

What about Airport 'Police' ?

That's on private property not a public road (probably a "public place" but not a public road or highway). You can be on private property subject to accepting the requirements of the owner which, in this case, includes following the directions of their security guards (they are not police no more than a stripper dressed as police).

On the banksman, I still see no legal authority and to impede a driver on a public highway is an offence. Banksmen can only operate by consent not legal authority.

Bosco boy

Marcusm wrote: »

barman linen wrote: »

What about Airport 'Police' ?

That's on private property not a public road (probably a "public place" but not a public road or highway). You can be on private property subject to accepting the requirements of the owner which, in this case, includes following the directions of their security guards (they are not police no more than a stripper dressed as police).

On the banksman, I still see no legal authority and to impede a driver on a public highway is an offence. Banksmen can only operate by consent not legal authority.

I hope no airport police see this post! There will be an outcry!

North Face

@Marcusm

A quick google search on State Airports and Airport Police returned this..

From the Goverment website

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/si/0425.html


Prohibited Acts (Vehicles and Equipment)

5. Each of the following acts, in relation to vehicles or equipment, is hereby prohibited:—

(3) failure by the driver of a vehicle to stop when required by an authorised officer;

For those who fail it is a criminal offence I believe if prosecuted and also the powers for the Airport Cops who are Authourised Officers under the act comes again under Section 33 of the Air Navigations & Transport Act 1988. http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1988/en/act/pub/0015/sec0033.html

33.—(1) An authorised officer, in the interest of the proper operation, or the security or safety, of an aerodrome, or the security or safety of persons, aircraft or other property thereon, may do all or any of the following things—

(a) stop, detain for such time as is reasonably necessary for the exercise of any of his powers under this section, and search any person or vehicle on an aerodrome;

From wikipedia Airport Police (Ireland)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport_Police_Fire_Service

Organisation & Role

The APS is established, funded and maintained by the owners of Dublin Airport, Cork Airport and Shannon Airport, the Dublin Airport Authority (DAA), who are the "statutory undertakers" under section 23 of the Air Navigation and Transport (Amendment) Act 1998. As a result, police officers of the APS are empowered as Authorised Officers within the limits and premises of each of the airports of the DAA, and elsewhere on lands belonging to the Minister of Transport

So to me when on lands comprising a State Airport you must stop for a member of the Airport Police as it is illegal not to do so when requested as demonstrated above.

sdanseo

Marcusm wrote: »

That's on private property not a public road (probably a "public place" but not a public road or highway). You can be on private property subject to accepting the requirements of the owner which, in this case, includes following the directions of their security guards (they are not police no more than a stripper dressed as police).

On the banksman, I still see no legal authority and to impede a driver on a public highway is an offence. Banksmen can only operate by consent not legal authority.

The APS have more power in the Airport under the act quoted above than a Garda has on the street. The Gardaí, of course, also have those powers within an Airport complex.

I can't suggest more strongly that you read the Airport bye-laws in full before you go anywhere near one, especially in a car

Bosco boy

sdeire wrote: »

Marcusm wrote: »

That's on private property not a public road (probably a "public place" but not a public road or highway). You can be on private property subject to accepting the requirements of the owner which, in this case, includes following the directions of their security guards (they are not police no more than a stripper dressed as police).

On the banksman, I still see no legal authority and to impede a driver on a public highway is an offence. Banksmen can only operate by consent not legal authority.

The APS have more power in the Airport under the act quoted above than a Garda has on the street. The GardaÃ*, of course, also have those powers within an Airport complex.

I can't suggest more strongly that you read the Airport bye-laws in full before you go anywhere near one, especially in a car

Tell us about them, I can't wait!

sdanseo

God no, I won't. The number of times this has been done to death exceeds infinity. I was simply sticking my oar in, sorry lol clarifying things.

/Airport Police related comments.

amen

they are not police no more than a stripper dressed as police

really ? I thought they can arrest you where as a security guards/stripper cannot.

time lord

An authorised person under the Waste Management Act 1996 can halt traffic. Think they can board vehicle too and have it taken away. Open to correction on this but its a new one on most people.

seamus

time lord wrote: »

An authorised person under the Waste Management Act 1996 can halt traffic. Think they can board vehicle too and have it taken away. Open to correction on this but its a new one on most people.

From the Act, an authorised person is entitled to halt and board any vehicle, but not halt traffic in general.

Their powers may also only be exercised in connection with the Act, i.e. they can't stop and board any vehicle for no reason.

Bosco boy

amen wrote: »

they are not police no more than a stripper dressed as police

really ? I thought they can arrest you where as a security guards/stripper cannot.

security guards and strippers can also make an arrest under section 4 of the criminal law act 1997 for an arrestable offence, they then hand the person over to gardai like airport police do

MagicSean

Marcusm wrote: »

You can be on private property subject to accepting the requirements of the owner which, in this case, includes following the directions of their security guards

Isn't this same reasoning dismissed when it comes to clamping?

sdanseo

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

Isn't this same reasoning dismissed when it comes to clamping?

That's a whole other can of worms. Clamping is technically illegal for this reason (to interfere with an MPV in a public place)...it's why the whole thing needs its own legislation.