Afrocentric/militant hip hop

pragmatic1

How do the rest of yous feel about afrocentric/militant hip hop. Personally I'm all for it when its for if its for self empowerment, but when it gets too fcuk whitey it gets on my nerves a bit. A lot of ridicously racist stuff rappers get away with saying that a white musician would get crucified for. Not the most obscure rappers either.

CorkMan

Ice Cube?

Hugh Cream

Can't say I've ever heard any, who in particular?

mufcboy1999

i had an arguement with uncle rush from run dmc on twitter the other night about why he thinks america is still feeling the effects of white supremacy and how its still going on today, i taught it was a bit disrespectful and if some white famous chap had said something similar about any other culture he would be slated, i asked how can you say that etc when your president is black and it went on from there:D just taught id throw that in.

as far as the militant hip hop iv only ever really glanced at it, i know its there just never paid attention to it. its all around us look at Lauren hill (not saying she's involved in militant hip hop) and what she has got away with saying in the past.

pragmatic1

Hugh Cream wrote: »

Can't say I've ever heard any, who in particular?

Have you ever listened to wu tang, ice cube, jeru, lauren hill, rakim, etc.

Nolanger

XClan, Paris, Professor Griff.

Boom_Bap

Dead Pres, Public Enemy, Ice Cube, X-Clan and Paris are the ones that i'd listen to. I'm pretty sure there is more but just can remember. I try not to pay too much attention to thier message and enjoy the music.

Boom_Bap

Oh and most recently, Death Grips 'Exmilitary' has been listened to. It's way out there though and defintely not for everyone.

Hugh Cream

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Have you ever listened to wu tang, ice cube, jeru, lauren hill, rakim, etc.

cant say i can quote their catalogues, were they that bad?
personally i thought you were talking about something present.

pragmatic1

Hugh Cream wrote: »

cant say i can quote their catalogues, were they that bad?
personally i thought you were talking about something present.

Have a listen to "cave bitch" by ice cube. Wu tang have some ridiculously racist stuff. I can upload a video of Jeru saying all black people are kings and queens while white people are just peasants.

Almost forgot Ras Kass"**** white people in general and **** the police specifically".

pragmatic1

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Dead Pres, Public Enemy, Ice Cube, X-Clan and Paris are the ones that i'd listen to. I'm pretty sure there is more but just can remember. I try not to pay too much attention to thier message and enjoy the music.

Love cube and public enemy. Like some of dead prez stuff too. I'm similar to yourself in that it normally doesnt bother me, but its a massive double standard in music and tolerating it is kinda being paternalistic to black people. I remember when Phil Anselmo had some questionable lyrics and he got crucified in the press for it. Would you listen to a screwdriver album if you liked the music.

Hugh Cream

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Have a listen to "cave bitch" by ice cube. Wu tang have some ridiculously racist stuff. I can upload a video of Jeru saying all black people are kings and queens while white people are just peasants.

Almost forgot Ras Kass"**** white people in general and **** the police specifically".

ok tbh im not sure i ever took much notice, but i suppose life is like that in general, black people seem to have a bit more freedom.
although when i say black people i mean rappers and comedians.

to an extent i can kind of understand it, its more or less the same as irish people hating the english.

not condoning it but i know people who hate the english and i couldnt care less about it so im not gonna be offended when a black person shows a dislike for white people.

Makaveli

I find Dead Prez can be a bit too over-the-top with it. I'm not particularly bothered by it but I don't go out of my way to seek tracks with these messages in them. PE and Ice Cube were awfully angry back in the late 80s early 90s but their songs didn't feel racist for the sake of it.

The reason that they can get away with it is obvious, much like the reason white people can't say it is also obvious. White guilt also plays a huge part. I'd wager if a white musician made bigoted or racist comments in a song more white people would be up in arms about it then said targeted race.

Dr. Bad Touch

When I read the title of this thread Dead Prez came to mind straight away. Songs like hell yeah ("White boy in the wrong place at the right time") show the double standard for sure, but I can't say I'm offended by it.
Where can I see this Jeru vid about white people being peasants? Can't imagine the prophet would say such a thing!!

Nolanger

Almost every track from the Last Poets.

emmabee

Not to mention Kanye West. His lyrics have an underlying theme of anti-white... Then there was the time he was so compelled to re-affirm the deservedness of a fellow black artist that he ran on stage and completely disregarded Taylor Swifts speech. Not as blatant as some of the aforementioned but a more commercial example

Da Shins Kelly

To be fair, I think Lauryn Hill was more about empowerment, particularly for black women, and I think comments of hers have just been grossly twisted and taken out of context (for example, the 'I'd rather my children starved than white people buy my records' comment, doubt she ever said anything of the sort, but at the time everyone thought she was a massive racist).

It's true that a lot of rappers are over the top with the black empowerment thing, to an extent that white people wouldn't get away with, but I still think that it's just times changing, and it will eventually die down. Let's not forget either, that racism is far from dead in the States, and a lot of these rappers would have been on the receiving end of it in their youth. It's understandable if some people feel bitter (although they should be careful about where they're aiming their anger, not every white person is to blame for racist cops in the US or whatever), but there is clearly still some resentment. Also bearing in mind that a lot of these rappers with quite militant attitudes would have grown up in a previous generation in which they were more than likely subject to a lot of racism (civil rights is a very recent thing, and racism didn't just stop when blacks were granted civil rights). I think some of them are just misguided and maybe too resentful, but I do think times are changing and this attitude will eventually start to die out (I think the election of Obama will help this). However, looking at some of the younger rappers coming up, they seem to have different attitudes and are less preoccupied with race.

iamstop

I have to draw a line between Afrocentric and Militant hip hop, Afrocentric refers to the early Tribe/De La stuff. It's a pride thing, know your roots and your history etc.
Militant Hip Hop on the other hand, like Dead Prez etc I see as an extension of the Black Power movement frpm the likes of Malcom X et al.
Tbh unless you've lived in America and more specifically close to African American people or even Latinos and mixed race people for any length of time you will be oblivious to the racism and treatment they STILL receive. It may not be as overt as signs saying "No blacks, no dogs, no Irish" but it is still very much alive in America in most walks of life.
As I said it is much more subtle nowaday in things like housing, jobs, police and medical treatment and other life opportunities in life.
I did live in the US and had a good few black friends and girlfriends and I know a small bit about what they go through. Having said all that I don't see this as a free licence to be racist but I hate this argument about "if such and such said that they'd be slated". There is an ever growing number or white power groups in the US and the world and they continue to grow uninhibitedly.
My personal belief is that you should be judged on who you are and what you do, not what you look like.

pragmatic1

iamstop wrote: »

I have to draw a line between Afrocentric and Militant hip hop, Afrocentric refers to the early Tribe/De La stuff. It's a pride thing, know your roots and your history etc.
Militant Hip Hop on the other hand, like Dead Prez etc I see as an extension of the Black Power movement frpm the likes of Malcom X et al.
Tbh unless you've lived in America and more specifically close to African American people or even Latinos and mixed race people for any length of time you will be oblivious to the racism and treatment they STILL receive. It may not be as overt as signs saying "No blacks, no dogs, no Irish" but it is still very much alive in America in most walks of life.
As I said it is much more subtle nowaday in things like housing, jobs, police and medical treatment and other life opportunities in life.
I did live in the US and had a good few black friends and girlfriends and I know a small bit about what they go through. Having said all that I don't see this as a free licence to be racist but I hate this argument about "if such and such said that they'd be slated". There is an ever growing number or white power groups in the US and the world and they continue to grow uninhibitedly.
My personal belief is that you should be judged on who you are and what you do, not what you look like.

You'd be surprised by some of the extremely right-wing views of groups like de la and tribe. I do have sympathy for what minorities go through in the US though. It almost parallels with what nationalists went through in the north up until fairly recently. Having said that, hypocrisy leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

conor.hogan.2

Vinnie paz in his later years was very aggressive in what would be "militant". Good songs though.

mufcboy1999

ye agree on the kanye, subliminally racist and ignorant in a lot of his music.

conor.hogan.2

what, any examples?

mufcboy1999

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

what, any examples?

loads but notice i said subliminally racist because imo he is. He constantly refers to white people as them or they etc here's one for example from all falls down :


We shine because they hate us, floss cause they degrade us
We trying to buy back our 40 acres
And for that paper, look how low we a'stoop
Even if you in a Benz, you still a nigga in a coop/coupe

he creates racial tension for me a bit too much, just an opinion im not the only one who thinks it, iv seen plenty of blogs/discussions on whether he is a racist or not.

conor.hogan.2

Dont listen to ras kass nature of the threat or interview with a vampire or the cee-lo freestyle on the wake up show then or countless other songs by various artists.

Also definitely dont listen to 90% of all battles then.

mufcboy1999

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

Dont listen to ras kass nature of the threat or interview with a vampire or the cee-lo freestyle on the wake up show then or countless other songs by various artists.

Also definitely dont listen to 90% of all battles then.

what has someone who is subliminally racist got to do with liking someone's music?

I never said I was offended.

conor.hogan.2

Well first I dont buy into him being subliminally anything and I was just pointing out that if someone found what kanye rhymes and talks about as racist then they should not listen to vinnie paz, ras kass etc

mufcboy1999

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

Well first I dont buy into him being subliminally anything and I was just pointing out that if someone found what kanye rhymes and talks about as racist then they should not listen to vinnie paz, ras kass etc

thats your own choice , i have listened to plenty of Ras Kass doesn't bother me in the slightest same with kanye.

but i think your confused between being subliminally racist and actually in your face racist tbh, if you cant read between the lines there's no point in having this discussion with you.

conor.hogan.2

These are songs, but ye I am the one who can not read between the lines.

Hugh Cream

fill me in on the likes of vinnie paz, when the term militant is attached to his name what does it mean, i understand what it actually means but what causes would a vinnie paz be aggressive about that would have people saying hes militant?

conor.hogan.2

http://www.musicsonglyrics.com/heavenly-divine-lyrics-jedi-mind-tricks.html

most of that is fairly strong, militant is perhaps strong for any artist to be called for but.

Technocentral

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

http://www.musicsonglyrics.com/heavenly-divine-lyrics-jedi-mind-tricks.html

most of that is fairly strong, militant is perhaps strong for any artist to be called for but.

To be fair to him he does give a big shout out to that white bread mo*****ucker Kenny G

conor.hogan.2

The blow sax line is jus allah, from memory so I could be wrong.

What a great line.

ItsNugget

I was a bit of a dead prez fan. Sometimes felt they went a bit racist but they did say if white people were supporting them and buying music they appreciated it

pragmatic1

Hugh Cream wrote: »

fill me in on the likes of vinnie paz, when the term militant is attached to his name what does it mean, i understand what it actually means but what causes would a vinnie paz be aggressive about that would have people saying hes militant?

None. Hes corny.

ItsNugget

I wouldn't say he's corny. Hes not gonna make any top 5's but him and stoupe work well together.

conor.hogan.2

They are well worth a listen, and I rarely skip their songs when they come on shuffle.

Not top 5 or 10 but enjoyable nonetheless, and have been around a long time putting out fairly consistent music.