Part time cloud computing course

John_Mc

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

We can all do Database work but that does not mean we do not have DBAs* who actually specialize in it.

*or testers, whoever etc

Not really a like-for-like comparison though. DB setup & configuration, optimisation and maintenance is a dark art which takes years to learn.

Unless you're actually setting a data centre to offer services on the cloud, then the scope of your work will usually be limited to using the GUI offered by the cloud service provider, which is easy and requires no training at all.

conor.hogan.2

There are gui people in every job. The lowest common denominator does not determine the rest of the people.

I agree it is not exactly like for like but compare it to a tester then or some types of web developers or IT* people (*support, installation, configuration).

You can't just brush it all off imo. Despite the obvious ridiculous hype around the word and the bandwagoning explosion of courses.

John_Mc

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

There are gui people in every job. The lowest common denominator does not determine the rest of the people.

I agree it is not exactly like for like but compare it to a tester then or some types of web developers or IT* people (*support, installation, configuration).

You can't just brush it all off imo. Despite the obvious ridiculous hype around the word and the bandwagoning explosion of courses.

I'm not brushing it off, I appreciate the advantages cloud computing can offer but the hype is getting ridiculous at this stage. People think it's the answer to everyone's problems when in reality, it offers nothing new.

As I said, unless you're setting up a data centre (which would be a monumental task) then working with the cloud is no different to working with a regular Server OS. In most cases it would be actually easier so I'm unsure what a person doing this course would actually leave with.

clubcrown

John_Mc wrote: »

Not really a like-for-like comparison though. DB setup & configuration, optimisation and maintenance is a dark art which takes years to learn.

Unless you're actually setting a data centre to offer services on the cloud, then the scope of your work will usually be limited to using the GUI offered by the cloud service provider, which is easy and requires no training at all.

I think you're all forgetting that there are business related roles to be had here. These courses are not just about training sys admins or developers as such. That certainly could happen, but if that is your aim then you would be better off with a CS degree I suspect, or doing your certifications in specific areas.

There are jobs that are out there that are not about building stuff, and having a good grounding in the technology would give you a leg up there. That is why I'm doing the course for example. I don't expect to come out of it with the same expertise as someone with a CS Masters from DCU or wherever.

Yeah the hype is ridiculous - but that always happens with something new. It doesn't mean that there isn't something tangible there in the first place. Just ignore the hype and actually look at what is being taught. I don't think anyone in this thread is claiming CC is the second coming or anything, we all think its hyped to a stupid level. That's what happens when politicians get involved

John_Mc

clubcrown wrote: »

I think you're all forgetting that there are business related roles to be had here. These courses are not just about training sys admins or developers as such. That certainly could happen, but if that is your aim then you would be better off with a CS degree I suspect, or doing your certifications in specific areas.

There are jobs that are out there that are not about building stuff, and having a good grounding in the technology would give you a leg up there. That is why I'm doing the course for example. I don't expect to come out of it with the same expertise as someone with a CS Masters from DCU or wherever.

Yeah the hype is ridiculous - but that always happens with something new. It doesn't mean that there isn't something tangible there in the first place. Just ignore the hype and actually look at what is being taught. I don't think anyone in this thread is claiming CC is the second coming or anything, we all think its hyped to a stupid level. That's what happens when politicians get involved

Yeah fair enough, that's a valid point!

Sparks

Mod Note: Post deleted and quoting posts edited. Folk, it's a pretty big rule on boards.ie to be civil. If you feel you can't be civil, don't post. People are asking for information from people who know more than they do; they are not asking for ridicule.

stevenmu

I think in many ways "Cloud Computing" has become the new "Web 2.0". It's a term that encompasses a whole lot of stuff, it's really far reaching, but it's also incredibly poorly defined and thrown around a lot as some kind of magic phrase that's supposed to explain something but actually acts as a placeholder instead of a real explanation.

To be completely honest I haven't really looked in huge depth at the courses out there, but from a few cursory glances they seem to be a kind of funny mish-mash of sysadmin, web developer, and Salesforce/Office365 sales brochures.

Ignoring the cloud for a moment, we all know that there are sysadmins out there who turn their hands to a bit of development, and there are developers out there who do a bit of sysadmin-ing. But neither (usually) are experts at it.

I have a fear that these "Cloud Computing" courses are aimed at churning out "Cloud Computing" consultants who will go around convincing people to move to salesforce/office365, with their help of course, and maybe developing some web apps which happen to get hosted on Azure/AWS/Whatever.

I think having cloud focused courses is a good idea. But they need to have courses focused at cloud developers which churn out full on developers, with a bit of extra focus on cloud stuff. Courses that churn out full on sysadmins with a bit of extra focus on the cloud stuff. And they should really leave the Salesforce sales brochures to Salesforce.com.


edit: Just saw this bit now:

I think you're all forgetting that there are business related roles to be had here. These courses are not just about training sys admins or developers as such. That certainly could happen, but if that is your aim then you would be better off with a CS degree I suspect, or doing your certifications in specific areas.

That is actually a really good point, I hadn't thought of that

clubcrown

stevenmu wrote: »

I think in many ways "Cloud Computing" has become the new "Web 2.0". It's a term that encompasses a whole lot of stuff, it's really far reaching, but it's also incredibly poorly defined and thrown around a lot as some kind of magic phrase that's supposed to explain something but actually acts as a placeholder instead of a real explanation.

To be completely honest I haven't really looked in huge depth at the courses out there, but from a few cursory glances they seem to be a kind of funny mish-mash of sysadmin, web developer, and Salesforce/Office365 sales brochures.

Yes and no. The Cork one does seem to be aimed at training system admins which is fair enough. The NCI ones are more general; you won't come out with the same expertise as someone going through a CS degree/masters, but you'll get a good grounding in most areas. There are a lot of people on the NCI courses who are from a business background. There are actually only a few who are already working in the area.

stevenmu wrote: »

I have a fear that these "Cloud Computing" courses are aimed at churning out "Cloud Computing" consultants who will go around convincing people to move to salesforce/office365, with their help of course, and maybe developing some web apps which happen to get hosted on Azure/AWS/Whatever.

I think having cloud focused courses is a good idea. But they need to have courses focused at cloud developers which churn out full on developers, with a bit of extra focus on cloud stuff. Courses that churn out full on sysadmins with a bit of extra focus on the cloud stuff. And they should really leave the Salesforce sales brochures to Salesforce.com.

I think the confusion here is that most of people on here seem to think that these courses are designed to create instant developers. That is not true at all, and anyway it isn't feasible, of course. But lets say you already have a CS degree. Its a good postgrad option to take to build on top of whatever you did in the undergrad. Lots of people have a CS undergrad - not so many also have a postgrad focusing on cloud. Its a leg up when looking for jobs, and its certainly a differentiating factor for some companies in this sphere. Salesforce recently had some nice technical pre-sales roles which you would be eminently qualified for had you done the postgrad I'm on.

In my case - I have a technical background (mostly web dev), but in recent years have been more focused on the services / consultancy side of things. For me doing this course is about expanding my technical knowledge so I can work with these providers. I'm not going to be building software or setting up a data center, but I damn well need to know how it all works if I'm going to talk to a customer about it.

The original poster is asking if these courses are good options; I would say they are. Just don't expect to get the same value out of them as you would from a 4 year degree course. If you already have one of those - go for it, it will stand to you. If you can get on the course via springboard, its free. Its a damn sight better than sitting on the dole :-)

Cork24

Charlotte Nice Finger wrote: »

Were do you get your "facts" from ?
A lot of the lecturers on the PG Cloud are well known names in the industry with a lot of experience behind them.

I'm amazed at the number of people on here dismissing the course without having any knowledge of it.
Granted, its not perfect and had it's problems, but so does every course on its first time out. I'm certainly glad I've done it.

Their are 2 people that i know of lectuering in the Cloud Courses in CIT,

One is a top programmer and works for semi public job looking after servers and databases within the compeny, the other person used to work in EMC and prifzers within the Networking/Server role also i'm aware of the fact that the person holds an CCNP i was told that they do hold a CCIE but i could say if that's right or not

conor.hogan.2

John_Mc wrote: »

I'm not brushing it off, I appreciate the advantages cloud computing can offer but the hype is getting ridiculous at this stage. People think it's the answer to everyone's problems when in reality, it offers nothing new.

As I said, unless you're setting up a data centre (which would be a monumental task) then working with the cloud is no different to working with a regular Server OS. In most cases it would be actually easier so I'm unsure what a person doing this course would actually leave with.

Yes, I agree it is getting overhyped. Read what others have said and read the course description. It is not for everyone (I certainly would not do it).

conor.hogan.2

stevenmu wrote: »

I have a fear that these "Cloud Computing" courses are aimed at churning out "Cloud Computing" consultants who will go around convincing people to move to salesforce/office365, with their help of course, and maybe developing some web apps which happen to get hosted on Azure/AWS/Whatever.

I don't think there is much different between that and "wordpressers" or other CMS people atm.

uck51js9zml2yt

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

I don't think there is much different between that and "wordpressers" or other CMS people atm.

If you think there's no difference between Wordpress and Azure I would have serious concerns about what you know.

Maybe you need to do a Cloud Computing course to learn the difference

skimpydoo

Avoid the NCI part tine cloud computing course like the plague! A friend of mine started this course. It was run so badly almost half the class had left by the end of first semester. Heard class complaints lodged with HETAC and the HEA. Ask current students, they will tell you it's an absolute disaster.

As already stated half the class did not leave and those that did leave could not handle the course. The only complaint was about an exam that was structured badly.

I have a background on web development and this course is perfect for me as I gain skills in more than one area. The lecturers are good and we are learning a lot. Anyone thinks this course is only about deployment is sadly mistaken there is much more to it than that. How many guys on here can name the 9 SOA principles without googling them?.

This course does what it says on the tin and as its free what's not to like. As mentioned earlier it beats claiming your dole and doing sfa. You won't know if the course is for you until you research the modules.

conor.hogan.2

Charlotte Nice Finger wrote: »

If you think there's no difference between Wordpress and Azure I would have serious concerns about what you know.

Maybe you need to do a Cloud Computing course to learn the difference

I did not say there is no difference between them

I said there is not much different to the potential people stevenmu was talking about and people who deal mainly or primarily with CMSs.

Also this was just addressing that one point not the course in general. As I think the course is a good idea if this is the type of thing you want to specialize in.

I chose not to do a cloud computing module (other modules covered it enough for me), but thanks.