dairy replacements

case 956

hi al, i have 10 heifer british friesian calves born in april, they are still on milk and eating meal and on grass since yesterday. i wonder what is the best way to push them to reach target weights for bulling on may 1st

sh1tstirrer

Still on milk :eek: They must be nearly 10 weeks old by now. If they are 90kg now they will have to gain 0.80kg/day from now to the 1st of May. Not an easy target to reach. Maybe if you gave an extra month to June 1st they will reach the target.

John_F

teagasc calculator here

http://www.agresearch.teagasc.ie/moorepark/Articles/CalfWeightReadyReckoner.xls

&

http://www.agresearch.teagasc.ie/moorepark/

keep going

graze ahead of the incalf heifers is great and cheap but takes a bit of work.would recomend starting feeding meal early in the autumn .

5live

I keep the late calves on milk all year. There is about 3 gallons of milk in the wash line that i dont risk putting in the tank so there is enough there for 7 or 8 calves on good grass and ration (about 1 kg) for the year. Try keeping them out on grass as long as you can with a bit of ration and you wont be far off

jeff greene

Dosing is really important too, we had a wild calf last year, couldn't get her in, missed two doses and it was really obvious!

Keep good grass and meal in, I have some late calves on ad lib now in a creep feeder, really keeps them thriving.

Tipp Man

It might be cheaper in the long run to only bull them as 2 year olds and calve them as 3 year olds.

No meal needed at all and as bulling heifers then can be grazed very tightly. We did this with a few late ones this year and will probably do it with the late ones for the next few years. The heifers are 10 times better when calving down and become stronger cows imo.

Unless you have spare unfilled quota I don't think it makes sense to spend a fortune really pushing these calves to produce milk that is over quota and will pay a levy on.

snowman707

Tipp Man wrote: »

It might be cheaper in the long run to only bull them as 2 year olds and calve them as 3 year olds.

No meal needed at all and as bulling heifers then can be grazed very tightly. We did this with a few late ones this year and will probably do it with the late ones for the next few years. The heifers are 10 times better when calving down and become stronger cows imo.

Unless you have spare unfilled quota I don't think it makes sense to spend a fortune really pushing these calves to produce milk that is over quota and will pay a levy on.

+1


op is aiming to calve down @ 22 months he will have over fed undersized stock who most likely won't milk to their full potential and be dificult to get back in calf

whelan1

snowman707 wrote: »

+1


op is aiming to calve down @ 22 months he will have over fed undersized stock who most likely won't milk to their full potential and be dificult to get back in calf

agree 100% have seen people posting on here who feed meal from day 1 until calving down- at what cost:eek: much better to let the animal mature naturally. thats the beauty of a liquid milk herd most of our heifers are 30 months at calving- autumn born calves calve in the spring and vice versa , no pressure

5live

snowman707 wrote: »

+1


op is aiming to calve down @ 22 months he will have over fed undersized stock who most likely won't milk to their full potential and be dificult to get back in calf

Very true.

One thing always bothers me about the target weights though. If you have 10 330kg heifers for the bull and 10 280 kg heifers for the bull, science will tell you that more of the heavy ones will go in calf but my experience tells me that more of the weaker ones will. Or is that just me

Tipp Man

snowman707 wrote: »

+1


op is aiming to calve down @ 22 months he will have over fed undersized stock who most likely won't milk to their full potential and be dificult to get back in calf

The key is to identify them at the start and run them as a seperate bunch so that you keep the costs as low as possible

Tipp Man

5live wrote: »

Very true.

One thing always bothers me about the target weights though. If you have 10 330kg heifers for the bull and 10 280 kg heifers for the bull, science will tell you that more of the heavy ones will go in calf but my experience tells me that more of the weaker ones will. Or is that just me

That's just Kerry heifers i'd say;)

5live

Tipp Man wrote: »

That's just Kerry heifers i'd say;)

Just looking out the window at 2 norwegian red heifers just about a year old about 260kgs and jumping like its going out of fashion. Very tempted to ai them in the morning:(. Bloody teenagers:rolleyes:

Tipp Man

5live wrote: »

Just looking out the window at 2 norwegian red heifers just about a year old about 260kgs and jumping like its going out of fashion. Very tempted to ai them in the morning:(. Bloody teenagers:rolleyes:

Took the bull out from our heifers on Saturday - he had long enough to get his wicked way with em

jeff greene

Tipp Man wrote: »

It might be cheaper in the long run to only bull them as 2 year olds and calve them as 3 year olds.

No meal needed at all and as bulling heifers then can be grazed very tightly. We did this with a few late ones this year and will probably do it with the late ones for the next few years. The heifers are 10 times better when calving down and become stronger cows imo.

Unless you have spare unfilled quota I don't think it makes sense to spend a fortune really pushing these calves to produce milk that is over quota and will pay a levy on.

If you say so, another year pottering around the place, what cost is that? What has quota to do with this, sell the heifers, different enterprise really. The amount of meal involved against having well grown heifers isn't a big deal, I mean grass and silage isn't free

Tipp Man

jeff greene wrote: »

If you say so, another year pottering around the place, what cost is that? What has quota to do with this, sell the heifers, different enterprise really. The amount of meal involved against having well grown heifers isn't a big deal, I mean grass and silage isn't free

There are indirect costs associated with having light heifers - like crap milking the first lactation (and maybe longer) - harder to get back in calf etc.

Grass and silage aren't free but when you are running them for the extra year you can really tighten them up - they don't need anything like the run they do when you are pushing them.

I'm not saying do it for all heifers - just the ones that are too far behind. I think it works - maybe its not for everybody

Regarding the quota - i was under the impression the OP was breeding them for milk so if he hasn't the quota when spend a fortune pushing calves that will never turn into great cows to produce milk which puts him over quota which he pays a levy on?

If he is producing them for sale i still think running them on is a better option. Heifer will be a dime a dozen next year when fellas get cleaned out by a super levy

whelan1

i remember going to look at calved heifers a few years ago , tbh they looked more like yearlings than 2yo , a few months extra before they where bulled would have made a hell of a difference , they where a poor bunch, i didnt buy

irishh_bob

Tipp Man wrote: »

Took the bull out from our heifers on Saturday - he had long enough to get his wicked way with em

how long ?

Tipp Man

irishh_bob wrote: »

how long ?

Left him off the 20th April

Like to have quite a few of the heifers calved before cows start if we can

case 956

jeff greene wrote: »

Dosing is really important too, we had a wild calf last year, couldn't get her in, missed two doses and it was really obvious!

Keep good grass and meal in, I have some late calves on ad lib now in a creep feeder, really keeps them thriving.

What ages are your calves and how much meal they eating daily and when you hoping ta bull these

funny man

case 956 wrote: »

hi al, i have 10 heifer british friesian calves born in april, they are still on milk and eating meal and on grass since yesterday. i wonder what is the best way to push them to reach target weights for bulling on may 1st

should make it no problem, keep them on good grass, move them often, they should be eating 1kg plus, if they are get them off milk as soon as possible. when winter comes try to keep them out as long as possible(hold up some grass), next year get them out early and keep them on a high Protien nut all the time up to bulling.

sh1tstirrer

Tipp Man wrote: »

Heifer will be a dime a dozen next year when fellas get cleaned out by a super levy

Yeah sure like in previous years when there was a super levy :rolleyes: Heifers always held their value, I have yet to see a cheap calved heifer. There is always demand for heifers because of cell count problems and fertility problems etc.

Tipp Man

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

Yeah sure like in previous years when there was a super levy :rolleyes: Heifers always held their value, I have yet to see a cheap calved heifer. There is always demand for heifers because of cell count problems and fertility problems etc.

Depends where you are in the country i suppose

Around here this spring calved heifers were struggling to make 900

Do you realise how hugely overstocked cows are in the country at the moment (relative to quota)?? I can count at least 8 farmers in a 5 mile radius who are milking once a day for nearly the entire year because they have 40-50% more cows than quota. Some farmers i know have sold anthing from 20 to 80 cows for the same reason.

Regarding the levy I would be almost certain that before the quota is abolished there will be a levy and some fellas are going to pay a massive bill. But they will have gotten away with it for a few years so I suppose they'll be able to take it

jeff greene

case 956 wrote: »

What ages are your calves and how much meal they eating daily and when you hoping ta bull these

Nosey:p

They are late March upto the 20th of April, 12 in total, I reckon they're eating 3-4kgs and they'll be bulled with the rest next April. The rest are on aftergrass and a kilo, for herding really, but that only cause I have aftergrass for them.

I respects others opinions but for me here tight on land, I can't have them around to place taken up room. Absolutely no issue calving them at 22 month once well grown, forget age, go by weight and size.

Tipp Man

This article seems to back up the potential levy problem

http://www.independent.ie/farming/coops-put-brakes-on-milk-cheque-handout-2812701.html

jeff greene

Tipp Man wrote: »

This article seems to back up the potential levy problem

http://www.independent.ie/farming/coops-put-brakes-on-milk-cheque-handout-2812701.html

That is serious, but it is taking the piss being full by the start of July.

whelan1

are there really that many farmers on oad milking at this stage? we are only 3 months in to the quota year , incomes will be slashed on these farms, assuming cows will be dried off early

sh1tstirrer

I read somewhere that Coveney is going to a meeting in August and he will be putting across the idea of an EU quota rather than a country by country quota. He says that he hasn't much hope of success as France and Germany are totally against the idea.

Tipp Man

whelan1 wrote: »

are there really that many farmers on oad milking at this stage? we are only 3 months in to the quota year , incomes will be slashed on these farms, assuming cows will be dried off early

Like i said there are a few around here on it - I'm sure there are plenty around the country.

I think we (as a country) really shot our load to quick with the dairy expansion

whelan1

Tipp Man wrote: »

Like i said there are a few around here on it - I'm sure there are plenty around the country.

I think we (as a country) really shot our load to quick with the dairy expansion

yes and was it not teagsac who told us to expand, that there would be no superlevy:rolleyes:

Tipp Man

whelan1 wrote: »

yes and was it not teagsac who told us to expand, that there would be no superlevy:rolleyes:

Yep got it in 1

G.U.R

whelan1 wrote: »

agree 100% have seen people posting on here who feed meal from day 1 until calving down- at what cost:eek: much better to let the animal mature naturally. thats the beauty of a liquid milk herd most of our heifers are 30 months at calving- autumn born calves calve in the spring and vice versa , no pressure

agree with this. Not in liquid milk but do milk all year round. Having heifiers calve down at 2 1/2 years makes a big difference. They milk more like cows and are in much better condition to be able to cope. Its a luxury not having to push animals to calve down under two. Having said all this it not much use to the spring guy.

We would calve some at 2 but the majority wouldn't.
We do keep the late spring(early summer really) calves indoors till the following spring.usually about 4-6 of them

irishh_bob

G.U.R wrote: »

agree with this. Not in liquid milk but do milk all year round. Having heifiers calve down at 2 1/2 years makes a big difference. They milk more like cows and are in much better condition to be able to cope. Its a luxury not having to push animals to calve down under two. Having said all this it not much use to the spring guy.

We would calve some at 2 but the majority wouldn't.
We do keep the late spring(early summer really) calves indoors till the following spring.usually about 4-6 of them

was at a farm walk on a farm a few years ago with my brother , this man was milking all year round but was still calving down at two years old , i asked the teagasc man , would it not be preferable for someone in winter milk to calve down at two and a half , well didnt the moorpark employee ate me out of it , teagasc have become quite rigid and dogmatic of late , its calve down at 24 mths regardless of what kind of skuts you have , personally speaking i think calving down at 30 mths is the ideal age , less pressure on man and beast , i wonder whether the spring calver has any choice on the matter though , would it be impractical to leave them untill three years old to enter the parlour ? , im sure some do it but they seem to be ostracised by the so called experts

keep going

great way of looking after heifers is to put them in calf to jersey,they dont skip a beat calving

funny man

Can't understand the theory of calving down heifers at anymore than 22-24 months, it's an excuse not to look after calves properly. i used to have small heifers calving down but since i started to look after them it isn't a problem anymore. trials across the world has shown that a heifer calved at 30months+ will not catch up on the production of a heifer calving down at 24months, Heifers should look like heifers not like Cows.

Tipp Man

funny man wrote: »

Can't understand the theory of calving down heifers at anymore than 22-24 months, it's an excuse not to look after calves properly. i used to have small heifers calving down but since i started to look after them it isn't a problem anymore. trials across the world has shown that a heifer calved at 30months+ will not catch up on the production of a heifer calving down at 24months, Heifers should look like heifers not like Cows.

Any links to those trials? I haven't heard that before

I think most people are happy to calve their heifers at 24 months - the point was that if you have young heifers there is an alternative to pumping nuts into them and still having a **** cow at the end of it. There is no rule which says they have to be 24 months at calving

jeff greene

keep going wrote: »

great way of looking after heifers is to put them in calf to jersey,they dont skip a beat calving

Or any easy calving bull, I think I mentioned here before we had a hereford sweeping after AI last year, threw big calves and the heifers never reached the height of their mates who have easy calving.

funny man wrote: »

Can't understand the theory of calving down heifers at anymore than 22-24 months, it's an excuse not to look after calves properly. i used to have small heifers calving down but since i started to look after them it isn't a problem anymore. trials across the world has shown that a heifer calved at 30months+ will not catch up on the production of a heifer calving down at 24months, Heifers should look like heifers not like Cows.

Agreed. Even in countries without seasonal milk, heifers are calved at 2 years.

5live

irishh_bob wrote: »

was at a farm walk on a farm a few years ago with my brother , this man was milking all year round but was still calving down at two years old , i asked the teagasc man , would it not be preferable for someone in winter milk to calve down at two and a half , well didnt the moorpark employee ate me out of it , teagasc have become quite rigid and dogmatic of late , its calve down at 24 mths regardless of what kind of skuts you have , personally speaking i think calving down at 30 mths is the ideal age , less pressure on man and beast , i wonder whether the spring calver has any choice on the matter though , would it be impractical to leave them untill three years old to enter the parlour ? , im sure some do it but they seem to be ostracised by the so called experts

Leaving them till they are 36 months to calve will leave you with bigger animals (too big for early turn out at mature eights of 700kgs +?) and also with an extra group of ADULT cattle around the farm which will lower your potential stocking rate by 20% on your land base and complicate management and housing requirements.

All for the want of feeding them better at a younger age, which i dont always manage to do myself:o.

And calving at 30 months is only an option if you are in winter/liquid milk and those farmers need about 7 or 8 cent a litre extra to pay for the extra cost.

Feed them and dose them better and keep them growing. As Jeff Greene says weight is the biggest factor in calving them down, not age. I have 2 cows calved down at 19 months and they are still in the herd, smaller but good milkers and now 7 years old

stanflt

dob sept 25 2010

stanflt

april calves

funny man

Tipp Man wrote: »

Any links to those trials? I haven't heard that before

I think most people are happy to calve their heifers at 24 months - the point was that if you have young heifers there is an alternative to pumping nuts into them and still having a **** cow at the end of it. There is no rule which says they have to be 24 months at calving

http://pubs.ext.vt.edu/404/404-285/404-285.html

http://www.johnthompsonandsons.co.uk/products/dairy/58-rearing-your-2010-herd?start=1

No rule at all :rolleyes:.

whelan1

was thinking about this earlier , if most of the spring calving guys calve their heifers down beofre the cows would alot of the heifers not be well under 2yo at calving down?

irishh_bob

whelan1 wrote: »

was thinking about this earlier , if most of the spring calving guys calve their heifers down beofre the cows would alot of the heifers not be well under 2yo at calving down?

a heifer who was born in april 2009 would end up calving at 22 mths old in febuary of this year , thats why i dont think its a good idea having a fresian bull cleaning up with a herd well into august , the calves ( for replacements ) are born out of season the following year , six weeks with A.I to black and white untill the second week in june and then let in a hereford or an angus to clean up for the next few months

Tipp Man

funny man wrote: »

http://pubs.ext.vt.edu/404/404-285/404-285.html

http://www.johnthompsonandsons.co.uk/products/dairy/58-rearing-your-2010-herd?start=1

No rule at all :rolleyes:.

God your right there is a rule

case 956

stanflt wrote: »

april calves

Fairplay stanflt superb calves. what you doing to them like that. how much meal they eating

stanflt

case 956 wrote: »

Fairplay stanflt superb calves. what you doing to them like that. how much meal they eating

1/2 kilo 16%course ration with minerals per day