Irish Abroad - politics & rebellion in other countries

CDfm

I was watching Tony Robinson this morning and saw an excerpt of a documentary of Vinegar Hill in Australia in 1804.

This got me thinking that Irish Revolutionaries went abroad and actually ended up in power in other countries and were sucessful military and political leaders.

I know absolutely nothing of these people and their lives.

Wibbs

Latin America had a fair few. The Irish/Hispanic mix a potent one for revolution it seems.

Che Guevara Lynch a good example. Indeed his father is quoted as blaming his Irish blood for his restless nature.

The liberator of Chile http://gosouthamerica.about.com/cs/southamerica/a/ChieBOhiggins.htm another one.

Admiral William Brown, the guy who founded the Argentine navy(lots of Irish in Argentina) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Brown_%28admiral%29

Wasn't just the blokes having influence either http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliza_Lynch

An interesting story of the Irish in Venezuela http://www.illyria.com/irish/irishven.html

Here's a list and springboard for the Irish in South America http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/guides/samerica.shtml

And that's just one part of the world. For a long period of time the Irish were fighting for every revolution but their own. Ireland has had a much bigger influence on world history than we often realise. Like you say we heard little to nothing about these people in our schooling. I know I didn't. It's an odd omission alright.

CDfm

There are a couple of angles and waves rebellions and exodus and exile.

The whatever happened to the native Irish Nobility in a "what happened next" way

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=69006197

The Wild Geese - Art O'Leary lived in Ireland and saw service in Austria but there were others who served in Russia as well

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=72465590&postcount=32

Sailors mariners and privateers

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=70447697&postcount=47

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69949440&postcount=20

Then you had the likes of Matthew Tone & Thomas Emmet

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66747345&postcount=52

The Young Irelanders and Australia, New Zealand and even the US Civil War

The Fitzgerald Kennedy's in Boston and organised labour and crime and the Whitey Bulgers of this world ,currently in the news.

And thats without mentioning Mrs Gilbert a/k/a Lola Montez from Limerick -one time lover of Franz List and mistress of King Ludwig of Bavaria. Also famous for her Spider Dance.

CDfm

Would I be right in thinking tha St Columkillle was one of the first to set up a foreign rule situation on Iona

http://www.ucc.ie/celt/published/T201040/index.html

mandrake04

CDfm wrote: »

I was watching Tony Robinson this morning and saw an excerpt of a documentary of Vinegar Hill in Australia in 1804.

This got me thinking that Irish Revolutionaries went abroad and actually ended up in power in other countries and were sucessful military and political leaders.

I know absolutely nothing of these people and their lives.

You are talking about the Battle of Rouse Hill, I live in Castle Hill about 7 miles from that site. Castle Hill is twined with Wexford town for that reason.

CDfm

mandrake04 wrote: »

You are talking about the Battle of Rouse Hill, I live in Castle Hill about 7 miles from that site. Castle Hill is twined with Wexford town for that reason.

I would love to know more - it was the tv prog that called it Vinegar Hill

mandrake04

CDfm wrote: »

I would love to know more - it was the tv prog that called it Vinegar Hill

Battle of Vinegar Hill was in Enniscorthy

Battle at Rouse Hill was called Australia's Vinegar hill or Vinegar Hill Part 2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Hill_convict_rebellion

My local shopping centre Castle Towers has the story corniced around the wall, also has Photos of Wexford Town on the walls. (not sure if Wexford has the same)

The local Library has a lot of books donated by Wexford council including my favourite My Fight for Irish Freedom by Dan Breen

mandrake04

http://historyservicesnswblog.blogspot.com/2011/05/castle-hill-heritage-park.html

Wibbs

CDfm wrote: »

Would I be right in thinking tha St Columkillle was one of the first to set up a foreign rule situation on Iona

http://www.ucc.ie/celt/published/T201040/index.html

We had been going back and forth to Scotland for a good while though. Lots of links for 1000s of years. Well its a lot easier to go from Ulster to western Scotland by boat than hike overland to Munster. On a clear day you can see... etc. Though the Irish church missions really copperfastened that influence when they converted kings and chieftains. Where the elite followed it rapidly filtered down. The Irish language would have become the lingua franca of trade and education. Maybe replacing existing pictish languages on the way? AFAIR it did.

MarchDub

CDfm wrote: »

Would I be right in thinking tha St Columkillle was one of the first to set up a foreign rule situation on Iona

http://www.ucc.ie/celt/published/T201040/index.html

The influence of Columcille and his missionaries was great. The Irish settlement in IONA and beyond was the origin of the Scottish monarchy who claimed descent from Ireland, and the Stone of Scone - the Coronation Stone of the Kings of Scotland - was always described as coming to Scotland from Ireland.

The Irish settlement gave Scotland its modern name - because the Roman name for the Irish was 'Scoti' and 'Scotland' essentially means 'Land of the Irish'. The Irish language also transferred to Scotland at that time also. In fact many years later in the 1700s when the English were attempting to ban the native language in Scotland the document specifically refers to the language as "The Irish language as spoken in the Highlands".

Wibbs

I agree MD save for this part:

MarchDub wrote: »

The Irish language also transferred to Scotland at that time also.

It spread yes, but it would have already had a pretty large preexisting presence in the west of Scotland(and it's likely some of the neighbouring Pictish languages had common roots). There were clan territories stretching back way before Columkillle was a gleam in his daddies eye. The last and best known would have been the kingdom of Dal riata in the 5th/6th centuries.

Columkillle and the other early missionaries were at first at least sailing to "their own". With initial success and liathroidi the size of a small family car the monks went out to the "barbarian" beyond the reach of their own and indeed beyond the reach of what had been the Roman sphere of influence. Real "here be dragons" stuff to a Roman mind and quite different to other current mainland European missionaries who stayed very close to home. This goes all the way back even to Paul who only stayed within the borders of Pax Romana. Then they headed even further afield, ending up changing the cultural history of early medieval Europe while they were at it. Amazing men(and a couple of women too).

MarchDub

Wibbs wrote: »

I agree MD save for this part:It spread yes, but it would have already had a pretty large preexisting presence in the west of Scotland(and it's likely some of the neighbouring Pictish languages had common roots). There were clan territories stretching back way before Columkillle was a gleam in his daddies eye. The last and best known would have been the kingdom of Dal riata in the 5th/6th centuries.

Yes, Dal Riata is attributed to the major Colmcille spread. Irish raiders had settled there and Colmcille was 6th century - c563. He travelled widely and established a network of monasteries in Scotland and Ireland. He linked the future Abbots of Iona to his own family, the Ulster Ui Neill.

Wibbs wrote: »

Columkillle and the other early missionaries were at first at least sailing to "their own". With initial success and liathroidi the size of a small family car the monks went out to the "barbarian" beyond the reach of their own and indeed beyond the reach of what had been the Roman sphere of influence. Real "here be dragons" stuff to a Roman mind and quite different to other current mainland European missionaries who stayed very close to home. This goes all the way back even to Paul who only stayed within the borders of Pax Romana. Then they headed even further afield, ending up changing the cultural history of early medieval Europe while they were at it. Amazing men(and a couple of women too).

Of course - Columbanus being one of the most important. He is now listed amongst the important early Christian fathers by Christian scholars. His foundations at Luxeiul and more importantly Bobbio in c610 were very significant in both bringing Christianity to the pagan as well as the fallen off in Europe. [He ran into trouble with the Royal family at Luxeuil though].

Later on in the ninth century Irish scholars like Johannes Scottus Eriugena, Dicuil and Sedulius were prominent in Europe. These Irish scholars were all to be found as major contributors in the Carolingian and Frankish empire courts. Scottus was described by Bertrand Russell as "the most astonishing figure of the early medieval period". Dicuil's work is claimed to be the first geographic work on Iceland - before the Vikings discovered it.

Very impressive time for the Irish.

jonniebgood1

CDfm wrote: »

This got me thinking that Irish Revolutionaries went abroad and actually ended up in power in other countries and were sucessful military and political leaders.

One such was Peter Lacy from Limerick who was a military leader in Russia in the early 1700's.

In the course of his remarkable career he served five eighteenth-century sovereigns — six if one
counts the fact that he partnered the 16-year-old future Catherine II at her wedding
dance in 1745. http://dro.dur.ac.uk/686/1/686.pdf?DDD36+dml4haf+dac0hsg

He was one of many of the 'wild geese' that served with European armies following the Jacobite wars end. After serving in France he was to serve the Russian empire and their leader 'Peter the great' and others. His role in the Great Northern war (Russia-Sweden) is well known and he is credited with bringing knowledge of superior weaponry to the Russians. He later gained the title governor of Riga and was recalled into battle on many occasions as his expertise was seen as important. Following the death of peter the great Peter Lacy remained prominent in the Russian Military with other heads recognising him.

The empress’s approval of Lacy’s actions was clearly indicated when, at the
start of Russia’s operations against Sweden in 1743, Elizabeth boarded the field
marshal’s ship in Petersburg to present him with gifts and to bless his newest
enterprise. However, Lacy’s eagerness to match his success on land with a victory
over the Swedes at sea was pre-empted by the Treaty of Abo, which was
signed in August 1743. Once more he returned in triumph to Petersburg, this
time aboard a yacht sent by the empress herself. After the peace celebrations,
which marked the culmination of his fifty years’ active service, Lacy retired to
his estates in Livonia as governor of the province, a post to which Peter II had
originally appointed him back in 1729. There he resided until his death in May
1751 at the age of 72. http://dro.dur.ac.uk/686/1/686.pdf?DDD36+dml4haf+dac0hsg

In 1891, one hundred and forty
years after his death, this remarkable Irishman was commemorated by the naming
after him of a division of the Russian army.

hokeypokey

Lest we not forget Eoghan O'Duffy and the Blueshirts...

CDfm

hokeypokey wrote: »

Lest we not forget Eoghan O'Duffy and the Blueshirts...

Ah cmon, tell us , there must be lots of irish buried in foreign fields in someone elses wars, guys shot by firing squad etc.

premierlass

The Connolly Column of the International Brigades in the Spanish Civil War. Joseph O'Connor wrote a biography of the poet Charlie Donnelly, who died at the battle of Jamara, called "Even the Olives are Bleeding". Kit Conway was a veteran of the War of Independence and Civil War (on the Free State side) and displayed outstanding courage at Jamara, where he was killed. Mick O'Riordan was wounded at Ebro but survived. He was offered a commission in the Irish army but chose instead to train IRA units in Cork. As a result he was interned at Curragh camp during the "Emergency".

I'm reminded by this thread to go and have another look at this exhibition in Collins Barracks.

man1

mandrake04 wrote: »

Battle of Vinegar Hill was in Enniscorthy

Battle at Rouse Hill was called Australia's Vinegar hill or Vinegar Hill Part 2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Hill_convict_rebellion

My local shopping centre Castle Towers has the story corniced around the wall, also has Photos of Wexford Town on the walls. (not sure if Wexford has the same)

The local Library has a lot of books donated by Wexford council including my favourite My Fight for Irish Freedom by Dan Breen

The library in Rousehill is called the Vinegar Hill memorial library and a street right next to where I live is called Vinegar Hill road.

The actual battle occured very near Rousehill on the Windsor road and was named the "battle of vinegar hill" but the general event was actually called the Castle Hill rebellion as they broke out of the convict farm in that area.
A veteran in the original battle in Enniscorthy in 1798 became the leader in Castlehill, a man called Philip Cunningham, who was later hanged in Windsor.
Many of the other rebels taking part were actually sent to Australia as a result of their involvment in the original battle in Wexford.

Their is a small memorial in Castlebrook commemorating the event. Wexford county council officials have visited the site on a number of occasions most notably in 2004 on the 200 year anniversary of the rebellion, which they played a part in organising the celebrations the event.

As a result of the relationship between the two councils, the Hills Shire council sponsored and helped Wexford set up a road safety awareness campaign for the youth in the county and it has now been adopted by most of the country and has led to road safety becoming a part of the Irish schools curriculum. This developed from the Hills Shires successful road safety programme.

There is also a room at the local community centre called Wexford room.

man1

man1 wrote: »

The library in Rousehill is called the Vinegar Hill memorial library and a street right next to where I live is called Vinegar Hill road.

The actual battle occured very near Rousehill on the Windsor road and was named the "battle of vinegar hill" but the general event was actually called the Castle Hill rebellion as they broke out of the convict farm in that area.
A veteran in the original battle in Enniscorthy in 1798 became the leader in Castlehill, a man called Philip Cunningham, who was later hanged in Windsor.
Many of the other rebels taking part were actually sent to Australia as a result of their involvment in the original battle in Wexford.

Their is a small memorial in Castlebrook commemorating the event. Wexford county council officials have visited the site on a number of occasions most notably in 2004 on the 200 year anniversary of the rebellion, which they played a part in organising the celebrations the event.

As a result of the relationship between the two councils, the Hills Shire council sponsored and helped Wexford set up a road safety awareness campaign for the youth in the county and it has now been adopted by most of the country and has led to road safety becoming a part of the Irish schools curriculum. This developed from the Hills Shires successful road safety programme.

There is also a room at the local community centre called Wexford room.

There is a great book at my University called "Unfinished revolution :United Irishmen in New South Wales, 1800-1810" worth a read if anyone can get their hands on it, not sure if it is widely available though.

mandrake04

man1 wrote: »

There is a great book at my University called "Unfinished revolution :United Irishmen in New South Wales, 1800-1810" worth a read if anyone can get their hands on it, not sure if it is widely available though.

Cheers for that, I know the battle was near that hill opposite the mean fiddler (think it's a cemetery or something) and I didn't know that The Libary at rouse hill was called the Vinegar Hill memorial library. Is that under the Hillshire council?

man1

mandrake04 wrote: »

Cheers for that, I know the battle was near that hill opposite the mean fiddler (think it's a cemetery or something) and I didn't know that The Libary at rouse hill was called the Vinegar Hill memorial library. Is that under the Hillshire council?

Yeah think it is under the hills shire council, most of the area on the right hand side of windsor road (going towards windsor) is under the hills shire and the left side is mostly blacktown council, they use that as a kind of border, so rouse hill should be under it.
I remember seeing some sort of plaque or something in windsor too last year about the rebellion, maybe it was where cunningham was hanged.

I told a few locals about vinegar hill in Ireland and they thought we (irish) named it after them:D you have to love the aussies!!!
A lot dont know the history of australia let alone history in their own area.

mandrake04

My library card does Castle Hill, B'Hills and Dural. Might take a race out to RH to have a look around it.

The old Northern Road from baulkham hills junction (cnr Windsor road/seven Hills Rd) goes the whole way to Hunter Valley through wiseman's and St Albans was Irish convict built.

It's funny how the Paddies are still building roads today.

CDfm

AFAIR Cunningham was badly injured in a parley and was hanged in a building somewhere the day after.

I don't know but it seems like it has a bit of horrible history potential.

man1

CDfm wrote: »

AFAIR Cunningham was badly injured in a parley and was hanged in a building somewhere the day after.

I don't know but it seems like it has a bit of horrible history potential.

From a local organisations history of the event:

Cunningham was not so lucky and was struck by the sword of the burly Quartermaster Thomas Laycock. Cunningham fell to the ground unmoving. He was assumed dead and left behind as the soldiers rounded up the rebels. Amazingly Cunningham survived the blow and was picked up by soldiers the next day. In the official reports that followed the battle neither Major Johnston's actions or Laycock's were mentioned. During the short battle fifteen rebels had fallen.

Phillip Cunningham was quickly hung from the staircase of the public store at Windsor on the 6th of March. The rest of the leaders were brought before a judicial panel. William Johnston who had surrendered to the authorities plead guilty. John Neale admitted he was in the rebel group. Jonathon Place denied all charges and the rest claimed they had been forced to participate in the rebellion. William Johnston and Samuel Humes as leaders in the rebellion were ordered hung in a public place and then for their bodies to be hung in chains.

It really is fascinating stuff and even more fascinating for me because I live almost in the exact spot where it all went down.

http://www.hawkesburyhistory.org.au/articles/Battle_of_Vinegar.html

premierlass

Napoleon's Irish legion

Established on 31 August 1803, the Legion Irlandaise was originally created in anticipation of an invasion of ireland. The purpose was to establish a core of trained irish officers and ncos who could raise the population of ireland in a war of liberation against the english rulers of ireland. By using Irish soldiers, Napoleon hoped to achieve three important goals: (1) the invasion force would be viewed by the irish population as an army of liberation, rather than a foreign invader; (2) a minimum number of french troops would be required for the effort; and, (3) such an invasion, if properly carried out, would tie up a maximum number of English troops for years to come, and could result in the English suing for peace.

However, with the continuing superiority of the British fleet, an invasion of England became more unlikely. The dream of an Irish invasion died with the British victory over the combined French and Spanish Fleets off Cape Trafalgar in 1805. With Austria and Russia preparing to renew the struggle for control of central Europe, Napoleon's attention turned to the east.

http://www.napoleonichistoricalsociety.com/articles/irishlegion.htm

MarchDub wrote:

The Irish settlement gave Scotland its modern name - because the Roman name for the Irish was 'Scoti' and 'Scotland' essentially means 'Land of the Irish'. The Irish language also transferred to Scotland at that time also. In fact many years later in the 1700s when the English were attempting to ban the native language in Scotland the document specifically refers to the language as "The Irish language as spoken in the Highlands".

I seem to recall that Ireland was known as Scotia Major while Scotland was Scotia Minor.

CDfm

Many people celebrate the storming of the Bastille and forget that 1 of the mental asylum inmates it held was an Irishman. At that stage it was no longer in use other than to house the insane.

What many people dont know was that it was an Irishman that lead the raid.

Carlow man's part in the Fall of the Bastille

How often have we heard the saying "The Fighting Irish". It has appeared in books, being told in stories, even a film was made with that name. I suppose there is a certain amount of truth in the words, for in days long gone, when the Irish had to emigrate and seek work in different parts of the world they often got it tough. How often did we hear the saying, and thousands of Irish see it, “No Irish need apply”. It often turned out to be the survival of the fittest and where a crust was to be earned, Paddy often was the fittest. But then were we not always a fighting nation. When we were finished fighting among ourselves we threw out the Danes or Norsemen whichever you like to call them. Poor Brian Boru, I wonder was he the last man to lead a force of United Irishmen in the full meaning of the word.
Again we speculate, did not the men of Leinster fight against Brian on that faithful day at Clontarf in 1014. Still, it was as near as we got since and hope springs eternal in the human breast. Then we had to wait almost 200 years before the coming of the Normans and we are fighting ever since. Irishmen have fought on every battlefield in Europe and on a good many outside it. Legend tells us that, “On far foreign fields from Dunkirk to Belgrade, lie the soldiers and chiefs of the Irish Brigade.” Indeed plains, the battlefields of the American Civil War, the African deserts or the rivers of Argentina or the flat lands of Mexico. The Irish or people of Irish decent became leaders in many countries and fought for many more. England may have been the ‘Ould Enemy' but thousands of Irishmen died fighting under the Union Jack in both World Wars. Some of England's greatest leaders were Irishmen as indeed they were of other countries too. Most of them are recorded for their deeds of bravery and courage but there are some who took part in great events in the words history and their names remain almost unknown.
Such a man was Joseph Kavanagh, a cobbler of Lille, a man who made his way to France in the middle 1700's. He later transferred his work to Paris where he became involved in the revolutionary movement. For some time before the rising of July 14th, 1789 the city of Paris was a hot bed of intrigue, plots, murders and crime. Of all the government ministers in the cabinet there was one in whom the people believed, Minister Necker. He had been on the side of the people in their efforts to obtain more food supplies and better living conditions. At this time living conditions in the back streets of Paris were worse than famine conditions in Ireland in later years.
This was the time that Marie Antionette was supposed to have said when told the people had no bread, “Let them eat Cake.” Hunger can be a terrible driving force and the people of Paris were at the last stages by this time so it was not hard to urge them to rebel against the government. The final straw that set the country aflame was the fact that Necker was removed from the cabinet. This news spread quickly and soon the whole of Paris was in uproar and the cry was Liberty or Death.
Far from the general conception that it was mob law all the way there was a certain chain of command among even the wildest of the mobs roving the streets and as a result 60 paris district representatives met the Hotel de Ville. Outside in the street things were getting worse and six citizens were chosen to go into the Hotel and ask the municipal representatives to form a National Guard. One of the six was Irishman Joseph Kavanagh.
The meeting told the six to go to their churches and get 200 citizens from each parish to form a bourgeois militia. Kavanagh realising the need for arms, picked his men and headed for the centre of the city. He was surrounded by a mob howling for arms and stating that a large number of Royal troops were approaching the city. A rumour spread that there were arms in the Bastille. Kavanagh now, along with two other horsemen raced through the streets shouting “To the Bastille, To the Bastille.” Hundreds of angry men now reached the Bastille and eventually stormed it and released the few prisoners within it. Yes, the Bastille had fallen and the chief organiser of that fall was an Irishman. Over 100 citizens died in the storming of the Bastille. After this victory Kavanagh was among those honoured as a hero. A strange twist to the story of the fall of the Bastille was the fact that Kavanagh's name never appeared on the official manuscript of the victory of the Bastille.
Two years after this, Joseph Kavanagh appeared again in the uniform of a Paris police inspector. Stranger still, he was one of those who carried out the terrible La Force Prison massacre of September 1792, when Irish prisoners, including Arthur Dillon were murdered.
The story of Kavanagh had another twist some years later with the downfall of Robespierre in July 1794, when those who had taken part in the prison massacre were taken prisoner and paid for their cruelty with their lives. Joseph Kavanagh was one of the few that was not named on the list of the men who died. Where he went or his ultimate fate will probably never be known, but then he was not the only Irishman who vanished after been involved in the fighting for a cause in another land and ending up on the wrong side.

MarchDub

premierlass wrote: »

I seem to recall that Ireland was known as Scotia Major while Scotland was Scotia Minor.

That was a later, late medieval 'classification' if we can call it that. The original Latin term was applied by the Romans to the Irish people - not the land - hence when the Irish went to northern Britain it became known as Scotland. The 'major' and 'minor' terminology came later when Scottish historians came to claim - or assumed - that all "Scoti" references as belonging to Scotland - and Irish historians needed to assert the real origin of the term so came up with the 'major' and 'minor' - but these have no link to the Roman antiquity.

pablomakaveli

Watched an interesting documentary a few weeks ago about William Lamport who was an Irishman involved in trying to win independence for Mexico in the 1600's. He was also the inspiration for the character Zorro.

The real Zorro was an Irishman - William Lamport (1615-1659) whose extraordinary true life adventures were even stranger than fiction.

Son of a wealthy County Wexford merchant, he became a Mexican legend and was burned at the stake by the Mexican Inquisition after a 17-year imprisonment.

He wrote the first Proclamation of Independence in Mexico, where he is today honored with a statue and a school named after him.

Lambert was a child prodigy and was sent by his family to be privately educated in London, where at 13 he was arrested for publishing seditious pamphlets.

Following a mysterious escape he was captured by pirates, with whom he served for two years and fought for the French at the Siege of La Rochelle (1628).

By twenty-five he was a protégé of Spain's Count-Duke of Olivares, had traveled most of Europe, and boasted proficiency in fourteen languages and a curriculum vitae that included episodes as a pamphleteer, engineer and military tactician.

He may also have played a pivotal part in altering the course of European history at the Battle of Nördlingen (1634).

He was sent to Mexico as a spy after a scandalous affair with a young noblewoman at the Spanish court. He was arrested by the Inquisition in 1642 for plotting a rebellion, the stated aims of which were to introduce land reforms, abolish slavery and establish an independent Mexican state.

On Christmas night 1650, he escaped in a manner so brilliant that it was rumored he had been assisted by demons. The pamphlets he posted throughout the city as he fled made him a local legend and inspired the works of several Mexican novelists and playwrights, one of which appears to have played a part in the creation of Johnston McCully's Zorro.

Lambert was arrested in 1652 when found in the bed of the wife of the Spanish Viceroy of Mexico. He was sentenced to 7 years imprisonment, at the end of which he was turned over to the Inquisition to be burnt at the stake as a heretic.

He was tied to the stake in Mexico City in 1659, but as the bundles of brush and wood were lit, he undid the ropes that bound him and strangled himself before the flames could reach him.

Lamport's Proclamation of Independence won for him the reputation of a forerunner of Mexican independence, and a statue commissioned in his honor stands in the vestibule of Mexico City's Column of Independence.

URL: http://able2know.org/topic/82116-1

http://able2know.org/topic/82116-1

In the documentary they showed a coat of arms he designed for Mexico that included a harp to reflect his irish heritage. A very interesting individual.

CDfm

That story brings to mind Fr Philip Crane and Charles Tottenham - Augustinian Friar and Protestant Anti Catholic Landlord was used by Dickens in a Tale of Two Cities

http://books.google.ie/books?id=I2zNMo8YTDEC&pg=PA36&lpg=PA36&dq=wexford+tottenham+%26+crane+in+france&source=bl&ots=bMWP5r6HWQ&sig=A3QVVR3ElrNA3wtuyAqIsNneKyU&hl=en&ei=5n8fTvniFM6o8QODm5W_Aw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

Protestant bloke was an alledged spy and faced potential execution and the friar sprung him from jail in 1791 . Tottenham was a major player in 1798 & 1803 on the government side in Wexford. Anyway he went on to allow Fr Crane do a bit of church building though as he got older he placed more value on his soul than having his head saved.

At that time the Parish Church was a small, thatched structure, called St. Mary’s, on the site of the present Augustinian Priory. In 1808 the parish clergy moved to a new and bigger Church in South Street and Charles Tottenham, the protestant landlord gave their old site to Father Philip Crane o.s.a., the prior of the Augustinians. So, the new Parish Church ended up on the old Pre-reformation Augustinian site in South Street and the Augustinians ended up on the old Parish site in Chapel Lane/High Hill.
The Augustinians used the old Parish Church for twenty years. Then Father James Crane o.s.a. started the building of a new church in 1832, which he completed in 1835, It is the present Church, dedicated to Our Lady of the Immaculate Conception and Saint Augustine.
The next item on Father Crane’s agenda was the priory. The Friars were living in a ramshackle old house in Chapel Lane and he proposed to build a new priory. But the landlord, Charles Tottenham, had a change of heart and tried to stop the building. He issued an eviction order on the Friars. When the people of the town and especially the local farmers heard this, they worked around the clock and, in a very short time, the new four-storey priory rose beside the Church and the eviction order had to be cancelled. http://www.augustinians.ie/component/content/article/12

man1

The second battle of Vinegar Hill clip from Robinson's Australia
It was the 208th anniversary on Sunday last, very enjoyable commemeration event held by Blacktown Council at Rouse Hill

mandrake04

CDfm wrote: »

AFAIR Cunningham was badly injured in a parley and was hanged in a building somewhere the day after.

Commissariat store at Windsor.

tac foley

Not forgetting St Patricks' Battalion in Mexico - subject of a movie a while back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Patrick's_Battalion

tac