Scottish Independence

Iwasfrozen

First Up wrote: »

Younger and in lower socio-economic groups.

Younger and lower socio economic groups are more likely to vote for independence.

A Dub in Glasgo

That is what First Up has said and that they are less inclined to vote therefore the No side will win

First Up

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

That is what First Up has said and that they are less inclined to vote therefore the No side will win

Not the only reason but it does mean that opinion polls may be overstating the likely yes vote.

A Dub in Glasgo

Unless the Yes side can click the election machine in place. I would use some of the funding to hire mini buses / taxis from the schemes to the polling stations instead of glossy brochures

First Up

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Unless the Yes side can click the election machine in place. I would use some of the funding to hire mini buses / taxis from the schemes to the polling stations instead of glossy brochures

I think that's the SNP view also. There isn't much sign of movement in voter intentions.

Fr Tod Umptious

Madam wrote: »

There are many reasons - one being we are fed up with a Tory led government in London calling the shots that count. Another perhaps we've just grown up and want our wee bit of independence:)

How different is that from the Labour led Govt calling the shots that count between 1997 and 2010 ?
You don't seriously just want independence based on who are in power in London ?

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

How different is that from the Labour led Govt calling the shots that count between 1997 and 2010 ?
You don't seriously just want independence based on who are in power in London ?

It's not a new thing there has been a movement growing towards this for a long long time.

WillyFXP

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Can someone explain to me what the trigger for this desire Scottish independence may be, I.e. what is the core reason(s) behind it.

They speak the same language, religion is not a factor, they have peacefully been unitedfor over 300 years, and eventhough their are cultural differences they are hardly worlds apart in that sphere.

So why a desire now for independence ?

Scotland only LOST it's independence in 1707, FORCEFULLY united, why wouldn't we want it back? Cultural differences not world apart? Those cultural differences caused the Jacobite War.

Iwasfrozen

WillyFXP wrote: »

Scotland only LOST it's independence in 1707, FORCEFULLY united, why wouldn't we want it back? Cultural differences not world apart? Those cultural differences caused the Jacobite War.

No it didn't. French dominance of Europe, the Reformation and the Divine Right of Kings cause the Jacobite war not cultural differences between Scotland and England.

As for why you wouldn't want independence back, ask the Scots, they're the ones voting against it.

WillyFXP

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

As for why you wouldn't want independence back, ask the Scots, they're the ones voting against it.

I don't need to ask, I am one. No one has voted for or against anything yet.

Iwasfrozen

WillyFXP wrote: »

I don't need to ask, I am one. No one has voted for or against anything yet.

They are in opinion polls, the same opinion polls that indicate you're fighting a losing battle.

Madam

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

They are in opinion polls, the same opinion polls that indicate you're fighting a losing battle.

Don't ya just love outsiders telling us how and why we vote the way we do, and why oh why does it matter so much to them that they cite such iffy opinion polls to back up their assumptions on how Scots are going to vote;)

I'm not so sure there will be a resounding yes but neither am I sure it will be a resounding no but for sure things will change and imo it will be a close run thing - bring it on say's I:rolleyes: Who said it is a curse to live in interesting times?

tdv123

If the votes a very close yes vote does that the country will get partitioned like here?

Madam

tdv123 wrote: »

If the votes a very close yes vote does that the country will get partitioned like here?

Of course not - Scotland is a whole different scenario - no religous strife in a large way to talk of and mostly and aside from Glasgow with it's Celtic/Rangers divide in the West of Scotland(not so much anymore and has never really divided us politically) that would never happen - week -in-week -out we all live, socialise and work together without the problems NI has experienced.

First Up

Madam wrote: »

Don't ya just love outsiders telling us how and why we vote the way we do, and why oh why does it matter so much to them that they cite such iffy opinion polls to back up their assumptions on how Scots are going to vote;)

I'm not so sure there will be a resounding yes but neither am I sure it will be a resounding no but for sure things will change and imo it will be a close run thing - bring it on say's I:rolleyes: Who said it is a curse to live in interesting times?

I'd have thought you might be flattered by the attention and interest but no matter. You may not like the polls but iffy or not, they are consistent and credible and are taken in Scotland.
I fully understand the Scots' sense of identity and all the rest. I also know the history. Fact is being part of the UK is hugely to Scotland's economic advantage and there is no combination of counterbalancing factors to overcome that. A Yes vote is a gut vote. A No vote involves more trustworthy instincts.
But if the process results in you getting some more devolved powers (and you already have a lot) then everyone will be happy.

Fr Tod Umptious

WillyFXP wrote: »

Scotland only LOST it's independence in 1707, FORCEFULLY united, why wouldn't we want it back? Cultural differences not world apart? Those cultural differences caused the Jacobite War.

But in the intervening 307 years it had been a peaceful union.
And unlike other places that have left the control of London over the past century there are no language (primarily English), religious or race (primarily white) difference between Scotland and the rest of the UK.

So what is triggering the urge to breakaway ?

My own opinion is that because the SNP are the largest part in Scotland by virtue of them being the lesser of three evils, they are just carrying out a desire, and an election promise no doubt, to have a referendum, knowing full well it will not be carried.

tdv123

Madam wrote: »

Of course not - Scotland is a whole different scenario - no religous strife in a large way to talk of and mostly and aside from Glasgow with it's Celtic/Rangers divide in the West of Scotland(not so much anymore and has never really divided us politically) that would never happen - week -in-week -out we all live, socialise and work together without the problems NI has experienced.

So they would force a sizable minority into a independent Scotland against their will?

Madam

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But in the intervening 307 years it had been a peaceful union.
And unlike other places that have left the control of London over the past century there are no language (primarily English), religious or race (primarily white) difference between Scotland and the rest of the UK.

So what is triggering the urge to breakaway ?

My own opinion is that because the SNP are the largest part in Scotland by virtue of them being the lesser of three evils, they are just carrying out a desire, and an election promise no doubt, to have a referendum, knowing full well it will not be carried.

While I kinda agree with your assumption, we are however between a rock and a hard place. Who do we vote for in our own interest, and why most English voters think we get more out of being part of he 'Union' than they do? How do you think that makes the Scots feel? We are to some extent classed as second class citizens in the south of England for example(no contribution to the whole in fact), are we forever to be a adjunct to england with no self worth!

Really as an Irishwoman living in Scotland how would you expect me to vote?:)

A Dub in Glasgo

As an Irishman living in Scotland, how would you expect me to vote?

I am fed up with all the 'England funds Scotland' guff

Fratton Fred

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

My own opinion is that because the SNP are the largest part in Scotland by virtue of them being the lesser of three evils, they are just carrying out a desire, and an election promise no doubt, to have a referendum, knowing full well it will not be carried.

That's it in a nutshell

Fratton Fred

WillyFXP wrote: »

Scotland only LOST it's independence in 1707, FORCEFULLY united, why wouldn't we want it back? Cultural differences not world apart? Those cultural differences caused the Jacobite War.

Forced by whom?

smcgiff

First Up wrote: »

But if the process results in you getting some more devolved powers (and you already have a lot) then everyone will be happy.

That's the likely scenario, but much power wants more power and it's a slippery slope.

Devo Max will be the precursor to full independence.

First Up

smcgiff wrote: »

That's the likely scenario, but much power wants more power and it's a slippery slope.

Devo Max will be the precursor to full independence.

Conceivably possible, but what sort of time scale do you envisage for that? The result of the 2014 referendum will allow the UK government to stonewall the issue for many years. In the meantime, Devo Max will take much of the heat out of it. With declining oil revenue (only about 25% left), the case for independence will get weaker, not stronger.

Fratton Fred

First Up wrote: »

Conceivably possible, but what sort of time scale do you envisage for that? The result of the 2014 referendum will allow the UK government to stonewall the issue for many years. In the meantime, Devo Max will take much of the heat out of it. With declining oil revenue (only about 25% left), the case for independence will get weaker, not stronger.

Devo Max will hopefully agitate the English in to demanding their own devolution.

First Up

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Devo Max will hopefully agitate the English in to demanding their own devolution.

Why stop there? Home Counties Home Rule! Liberate Yorkshire!

Fratton Fred

First Up wrote: »

Why stop there? Home Counties Home Rule! Liberate Yorkshire!

It's the obvious next step though, the English are entitled to their own autonomy as well.

everdead.ie

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It's the obvious next step though, the English are entitled to their own autonomy as well.

I would be curious as to wether you think England would like it's independance from the Union?

Obviously they are always saying that England us funding other parts of the Union which is why Scotland should stay but then doesn't that mean a lot of English should feel aggrieved?(Obviously asking you as an English person)


But I agree seems silly that there are four parliaments in the UK and none look after the sole interests of England.

Madam

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It's the obvious next step though, the English are entitled to their own autonomy as well.

How daft is that - when they run the whole sheebang anyway:rolleyes:

Fratton Fred

Madam wrote: »

How daft is that - when they run the whole sheebang anyway:rolleyes:

Why is it daft? Why shouldn't English people be given the same rights as the Scots or the Welsh? Why should the English put up with Scottish interference in matters that only affect England?

Fratton Fred

everdead.ie wrote: »

I would be curious as to wether you think England would like it's independance from the Union?

Obviously they are always saying that England us funding other parts of the Union which is why Scotland should stay but then doesn't that mean a lot of English should feel aggrieved?(Obviously asking you as an English person)


But I agree seems silly that there are four parliaments in the UK and none look after the sole interests of England.

Not independence, more federalisation, which is effectively what devo max would bring about for Scotland.