Méadhbh McGivern (14), and her dad on Morning Ireland

Big Nasty

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I disagree. We got her there we should bring her home. In the big scheme of things a couple if hours use of a government jet isn't a lot to ask for.

Yeah, but you set precedent then for any citizen that might need transport. It's one thing shipping them out in an emergency but once the patient has recovered sufficently to be released I don't see the need to use a government jet to fly them home.

Micky Dolenz

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Yeah, but you set precedent then for any citizen that might need transport. It's one thing shipping them out in an emergency but once the patient has recovered sufficently to be released I don't see the need to use a government jet to fly them home.

It's a precedent I wouldn't mind seeing set. Life saving operations are pretty stressful I'd imagine. Wouldn't fancy my child or loved one waiting around an airport to check on etc. Pick them up, straight onto plane and get them home. When they are ready.

ash23

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Yeah, but you set precedent then for any citizen that might need transport. It's one thing shipping them out in an emergency but once the patient has recovered sufficently to be released I don't see the need to use a government jet to fly them home.

There are plenty of children who have to travel daily/weekly/monthly for treatment in the childrens hospitals in Dublin from all parts of the country and the parents are responsible for getting them there for the most part.
I don't think it's fair that this child would get private jets simply because she was ill.
In a perfect world these kids would all be able to travel safely and comfortably but I don't think it would be fair for her to get a private flight home when other parents struggle with transporting sick children with little or no help.

Lollipops23

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

It's a precedent I wouldn't mind seeing set. Life saving operations are pretty stressful I'd imagine. Wouldn't fancy my child or loved one waiting around an airport to check on etc. Pick them up, straight onto plane and get them home. When they are ready.

come on, do you really think that's feasible? i'm delighted for Meadhbh and her family, that she finally got the operation she needed. i'm also delighted that the air corps didn't bugger it up like last time too.
but i don't think flying her home via private jet is really necessary. i'd like to think that the docs in the hospital she's in won't be allowing her to travel until she's well fit and healed enough so an aer lingus plane won't matter.
hoping she gets well soon and that the transplant is everything she needs it to be.

Biggins

ash23 wrote: »

There are plenty of children who have to travel daily/weekly/monthly for treatment in the childrens hospitals in Dublin from all parts of the country and the parents are responsible for getting them there for the most part.
I don't think it's fair that this child would get private jets simply because she was ill.
In a perfect world these kids would all be able to travel safely and comfortably but I don't think it would be fair for her to get a private flight home when other parents struggle with transporting sick children with little or no help.

Lets be honest, its extremely unlikely that she will get a government plane back I think.
She will eventually probably get a standard flight back - even if she gets the VIP treatment from any such standard airline (and none of us would I dare say, begrudge her that).

Monife

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Yeah, but you set precedent then for any citizen that might need transport. It's one thing shipping them out in an emergency but once the patient has recovered sufficently to be released I don't see the need to use a government jet to fly them home.

While I agree with the above post, I think it would be only fair to offer Méadhbh a return flight home on the government jet after the huge c*ck up in July.

ash23

Biggins wrote: »

Lets be honest, its extremely unlikely that she will get a government plane back I think.
She will eventually probably get a standard flight back - even if she gets the VIP treatment from any such standard airline (and none of us would I dare say, begrudge her that).

I agree, she won't get a private flight back. I just didn't like the media hype about her having to get the commercial flight home or think it was right for the family to expect her to have a private flight home. Unrealistic really.

Micky Dolenz

Lollipops23 wrote: »

come on, do you really think that's feasible? i'm delighted for Meadhbh and her family, that she finally got the operation she needed. i'm also delighted that the air corps didn't bugger it up like last time too.
but i don't think flying her home via private jet is really necessary. i'd like to think that the docs in the hospital she's in won't be allowing her to travel until she's well fit and healed enough so an aer lingus plane won't matter.
hoping she gets well soon and that the transplant is everything she needs it to be.

Feasible, yes. Likely no.

We waste so much money in this country I'd rather it was put to some good.

It would be interesting to know how often that jet travels to the UK.

Biggins

ash23 wrote: »

I agree, she won't get a private flight back. I just didn't like the media hype about her having to get the commercial flight home or think it was right for the family to expect her to have a private flight home. Unrealistic really.

Given that her family have just gotten a real chance of their daughter living longer, I don't think they mind now what way they get back home as long as its comfortable for their daughter.

If Ryanair or Air Lingus is any good, they should at least do themselves a bit of PR good and offer free seats to the girl or ma and da too.

Lollipops23

Biggins wrote: »

Given that her family have just gotten a real chance of their daughter living longer, I don't think they mind now what way they get back home as long as its comfortable for their daughter.

But that's the problem- her dad is giving out yards and writing letters to the minister for health about it.
Really he should be focusing on his child. Having said that, his comments have probably been taken and warped for the sake of a good news story.

The Dagda

Biggins wrote: »

Given that her family have just gotten a real chance of their daughter living longer, I don't think they mind now what way they get back home as long as its comfortable for their daughter.

If Ryanair or Air Lingus is any good, they should at least do themselves a bit of PR good and offer free seats to the girl or ma and da too.

It seems they do mind...

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/joe-mcgivern-shocked-no-plane-available-for-meadhbh-after-transplant-521109.html

I'd imagine that Aer Lingus or Ryanair will grab some free advertising and fly the family home...

ash23

The Dagda wrote: »

It seems they do mind...

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/joe-mcgivern-shocked-no-plane-available-for-meadhbh-after-transplant-521109.html

I'd imagine that Aer Lingus or Ryanair will grab some free advertising and fly the family home...

It was the fact that the father was complaining about the flight home that bothered me.
I totally understood and supported where they were coming from when the initial flight was messed up and I too would have been on to every media rep in the country if that had happened. But now I feel like they're milking it.

Biggins

The Dagda wrote: »

It seems they do mind...

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/joe-mcgivern-shocked-no-plane-available-for-meadhbh-after-transplant-521109.html

I'd imagine that Aer Lingus or Ryanair will grab some free advertising and fly the family home...

How was previous cases like this handled for return home trips?
Anyone know? (I don't so I ask...)

The Dagda

Biggins wrote: »

How was previous cases like this handled for return home trips?
Anyone know? (I don't so I ask...)

I don't know either but there must be a precedent for this and they should be consistent with whatever that precedent is, IMO

my friend

I am fed up listening to that whiner from Leitrim.

will he ever be grateful?

ash23

Biggins wrote: »

How was previous cases like this handled for return home trips?
Anyone know? (I don't so I ask...)

Pretty sure it's on a commercial flight

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/1230/osullivanar.html
This case, the baby arrived him to Dublin airport so I'd imagine it was a commercial flight

Biggins

The Dagda wrote: »

I don't know either but there must be a precedent for this and they should be consistent with whatever that precedent is, IMO

I agree

ash23 wrote: »

Pretty sure it's on a commercial flight

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/1230/osullivanar.html
This case, the baby arrived him to Dublin airport so I'd imagine it was a commercial flight

Cheers.

The Dagda

ash23 wrote: »

Pretty sure it's on a commercial flight

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/1230/osullivanar.html
This case, the baby arrived him to Dublin airport so I'd imagine it was a commercial flight

The Benhaffaf twins arrived home on an Air Corp plane so there seems to be an inconsistent handling of such matters...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0521/breaking52.html

...but perhaps the decision on whether to use commercial or state planes is based on medical advice?

ash23

The Dagda wrote: »

The Benhaffaf twins arrived home on an Air Corp plane so there seems to be an inconsistent handling of such matters...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0521/breaking52.html

Depending on the media interest it would seem.

Lollipops23

ash23 wrote: »

Depending on the media interest it would seem.

In fairness that was an even bigger operation than the liver transplant. They were also infants, so even more vulnerable to infection.

ash23

Lollipops23 wrote: »

In fairness that was an even bigger operation than the liver transplant. They were also infants, so even more vulnerable to infection.

True. Were they being transferred to hospital in Cork or being brought home to their own home?

Biggins

I'm guessing but in some cases I presume there is good reason for different methods of returning patients home.
Maybe on a commercial flight with (maybe? I don't know!) the use of recycled air system that they use in those flights, it might be deemed as more dangerous to a particular patients health. That again, I supposed can be over come with an oxygen mask to some extent.

I'm unsure of this girls particular needs right now and maybe there is a case for such a flight back as such her family seek. We do not know the full details so I try not to rush to judgement in such cases such as these.

Raskolnikov

Lollipops23 wrote: »

come on, do you really think that's feasible? i'm delighted for Meadhbh and her family, that she finally got the operation she needed. i'm also delighted that the air corps didn't bugger it up like last time too.
but i don't think flying her home via private jet is really necessary. i'd like to think that the docs in the hospital she's in won't be allowing her to travel until she's well fit and healed enough so an aer lingus plane won't matter.
hoping she gets well soon and that the transplant is everything she needs it to be.

+1

The cost of flying her home by the Air Corps or by private jet would be €10k+ at very least. There are 100's of other very sick people in this country who are traveling arduous distances every week for various kind of treatments - should they get private transportation too?

The problem is that health care is a very emotive subject. Because resources are so limited (especially today), you have to focus on putting money on where it can be used most effectively, not putting it to someone who can shout loudest.

Biggins

Raskolnikov wrote: »

...you have to focus on putting money on where it can be used most effectively, not putting it to someone who can shout loudest.

Absolutely very true - sadly however as the state has or is in the process of taking €65 Million off the elderly this coming months and meanwhile spending the same amount of what a flight would cost on a rug in Vienna, I still think they have their priorities wrong or at least could spare a tiny fraction of those grabbed millions on a possible (Again, I don't know the exact details) more useful situation.

For ref:
* http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0713/1224300652306.html
* http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2038736/Irish-Government-spend-7000-euros-ambassador-Jim-Brennans-new-RUG-Vienna.html

hondasam

Considering all this girl has suffered and the mess that was made in the first place the least this government can do is fly her home.
I cannot imagine there would be many people who would object to the gov jet been used.
I would not like it to be used all the time,only for occasions like this or in an emergency.
Hopefully she makes a speedy recovery and will be home soon.

Lollipops23

hondasam wrote: »

Considering all this girl has suffered and the mess that was made in the first place the least this government can do is fly her home.
I cannot imagine there would be many people who would object to the gov jet been used.
I would not like it to be used all the time,only for occasions like this or in an emergency.
Hopefully she makes a speedy recovery and will be home soon.

It's not that she's being begrudged it, but there are people out there that would see it as presedence and try to convince the dept that everyone going abroad for medical treatment need to use it. Imagine how that could spiral out of control?
AFAIK, the ONLY reason Meadhbh used the Air Corps jet to go over was because of the time constraints involved; the window of opportunity is so so small and that's how she missed it last time.

ch750536

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

It's a precedent I wouldn't mind seeing set. Life saving operations are pretty stressful I'd imagine. Wouldn't fancy my child or loved one waiting around an airport to check on etc. Pick them up, straight onto plane and get them home. When they are ready.

You see people taken by air ambulance to the hospital in motorway crashes etc, does this mean they get one back when they are better?

Just because it is a different country does not entitle us to waste money without need, €7k is €7k we need.

hondasam

Lollipops23 wrote: »

It's not that she's being begrudged it, but there are people out there that would see it as presedence and try to convince the dept that everyone going abroad for medical treatment need to use it. Imagine how that could spiral out of control?
AFAIK, the ONLY reason Meadhbh used the Air Corps jet to go over was because of the time constraints involved; the window of opportunity is so so small and that's how she missed it last time.

I agree and I would not like to see it been abused but how many people need to go abroad for life saving surgery.
The family is under enough stress as it is one less thing to worry about would help them.

Micky Dolenz

ch750536 wrote: »

You see people taken by air ambulance to the hospital in motorway crashes etc, does this mean they get one back when they are better?

Just because it is a different country does not entitle us to waste money without need, €7k is €7k we need.

If they are taken off the island, yeah.

Need for what though? Another rug?

Donny5

The Dagda wrote: »

...but perhaps the decision on whether to use commercial or state planes is based on medical advice?

I think that's probably the case. They were being transported by air ambulance from Great Ormond Street to Cork University Hospital, so it sounds like it was medically necessary.

ch750536

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

If they are taken off the island, yeah.

Need for what though? Another rug?

2 wrongs don't make a right unless you are Homer.

ash23

hondasam wrote: »

I agree and I would not like to see it been abused but how many people need to go abroad for life saving surgery.
The family is under enough stress as it is one less thing to worry about would help them.

Sure families have to travel from Cork to Dublin or Donegal to Dublin. Many families have to drive for hours to get their children the medical attention they need because the childrens hospital is in Dublin.
These children and their families could benefit with being flown to and from surgeries for convenience and comfort but it doesn't happen.
In an absolute emergency it would happen but not when they are recovered and deemed fit to travel. As will be the case if this girl is put on a commercial flight and brought home.

hondasam

ash23 wrote: »

Sure families have to travel from Cork to Dublin or Donegal to Dublin. Many families have to drive for hours to get their children the medical attention they need because the childrens hospital is in Dublin.
These children and their families could benefit with being flown to and from surgeries for convenience and comfort but it doesn't happen.
In an absolute emergency it would happen but not when they are recovered and deemed fit to travel. As will be the case if this girl is put on a commercial flight and brought home.

Medical attention and a life saving operation is a bit different.

Big Nasty

hondasam wrote: »

Medical attention and a life saving operation is a bit different.

Absolutely - and all stops should be pulled to get any citizen the attention they need but expecting same to get them home is expecting too much IMO.

3ndahalfof6

It is great news that the operation went OK, now Méadhbh (is this how you spell her name) will have to go through the mending process, I think if she has to fly home on a regular flight this could only be a good thing, as I am sure the doctors would not allow this if there was any chance of infection happening,

so if she is flying, rejection of her new liver has not occurred and her health has improved considerably,

I can understand her father complaining, I am sure he will want to take no chances with Méadhbh's health and do everything possible to get her home the safest way,

it is his job to shout and complain and not be in the position of did I do enough.

Orando Broom

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

If they are taken off the island, yeah.

Need for what though? Another rug?

Was the rug taken out of the patient transport budget?! That is a ****ing disgrace! Sometimes I wish the Government didn't keep their money in a big pile of cash in the middle of the floor.

hondasam

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Absolutely - and all stops should be pulled to get any citizen the attention they need but expecting same to get them home is expecting too much IMO.

I know what you are saying is right but exceptions should be made and each case judged accordingly. It's not like it happens every day.

ash23

hondasam wrote: »

Medical attention and a life saving operation is a bit different.

Life saving ops are carried out in Ireland too. Loads of kids undergo life saving treatment in Crumlin and Temple Street. And their parents drive them home or get the bus/train etc when the child is discharged. It does happen every day!

Transplants are not carried out in Ireland but plenty of children travel while undergoing chemo or after open heart surgery or whatever.

Micky Dolenz

Orando Broom wrote: »

Was the rug taken out of the patient transport budget?! That is a ****ing disgrace! Sometimes I wish the Government didn't keep their money in a big pile of cash in the middle of the floor.

It was being used as an example.

They keep our money in a bank. We own enough of them.

Big Nasty

hondasam wrote: »

I know what you are saying is right but exceptions should be made and each case judged accordingly. It's not like it happens every day.

Why though - will she really need a government jet? Will AL / RA not do? If her condition is too serious to use a regular carrier then by all means use the govt jet but I can't see her being released until she is healthy enough to be able to board a normal flight.

BTW I wish Meadhbh all the best and a speedy recovery.

hondasam

ash23 wrote: »

Life saving ops are carried out in Ireland too. Loads of kids undergo life saving treatment in Crumlin and Temple Street. And their parents drive them home or get the bus/train etc when the child is discharged. It does happen every day!

Transplants are not carried out in Ireland but plenty of children travel while undergoing chemo or after open heart surgery or whatever.

I know all this but it is a special case.
Her parents want the best for their child same as all parent do.
Can we not be happy she is ok and recovering.
If it were my child I would probably feel the same as Meadhbh's dad.

Sonnenblumen

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I disagree. We got her there we should bring her home. In the big scheme of things a couple if hours use of a government jet isn't a lot to ask for.

Was not the Gov jet used to get her there as an emergency? Getting her back doesn't appear to be an emergency?

What do other similar transplant patients do?

"a couple of hours" is not the point, apart from the expense, it could conflict with another emergency.

The Big Red Button

MCMLXXV wrote: »

hondasam wrote: »

Medical attention and a life saving operation is a bit different.

Absolutely - and all stops should be pulled to get any citizen the attention they need but expecting same to get them home is expecting too much IMO.

In this case, given the disaster that occurred first time round, I don't blame the family for expecting "too much" ... the poor kid deserves it, after what she's been through.

And when she didn't get on the flight first time round, I heard of several people harshly criticising the parents for not moving the entire family to london (?!) So I dont blame her father for being more vocal this time. Its very clear he only wants the best for his daughter.

hondasam

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Why though - will she really need a government jet? Will AL / RA not do? If her condition is too serious to use a regular carrier then by all means use the govt jet but I can't see her being released until she is healthy enough to be able to board a normal flight.

BTW I wish Meadhbh all the best and a speedy recovery.

I'm sure she will not need the Gov jet but what is the harm in using it for her.
I'm sure her family would be happier to have her home than in hospital in the UK.

Dyslexic I am

I'm very pleased to hear that this young girl now has a chance of a normal life.

But I was more than a little dissapointed when her dad failed to thank the people in the UK who not only provided the organ, but facilitated the transplant.

Would it have been so difficult when being interviewed the other day to drop a line of thanks to the people and nation that made this happen?

hondasam

Dyslexic I am wrote: »

I'm very pleased to hear that this young girl now has a chance of a normal life.

But I was more than a little dissapointed when her dad failed to thank the people in the UK who not only provided the organ, but facilitated the transplant.

Would it have been so difficult when being interviewed the other day to drop a line of thanks to the people and nation that made this happen?

I'm sure he has thanked them. It was an emotional day for him and his family.
Maybe someone should have advised him before the interview.

why would you be disappointed?

Biggins

hondasam wrote: »

I'm sure he has thanked them. It was an emotional day for him and his family...

I think we will hear some day that he/his wife has quietly thanked the family involved for the chance his daughter has been given.
The donating family for a start might not have wanted publicity also - for a start while they are still grieving at their own possible loss - and as such any thanks that might have been made or communicated, was done quietly off camera and in private, respectful circumstances.

Totally understandable if so.

I'm sure he will at some appropriate stage also thank the nation for any and all efforts made on behalf of his daughter. Not everything can be said in a few short minutes of newsbites.

Lollipops23

Dyslexic I am wrote: »

I'm very pleased to hear that this young girl now has a chance of a normal life.

But I was more than a little dissapointed when her dad failed to thank the people in the UK who not only provided the organ, but facilitated the transplant.

Would it have been so difficult when being interviewed the other day to drop a line of thanks to the people and nation that made this happen?

Having been a very sick kid myself (not as sick as Meadhbh, thankfully) I can tell you that he won't be in his right mind right now. He will get around to it, once he's gotten his daughter home. My own parents were up the walls when I was ill, mix that with sleep deprivation and you got yourself one mental mammy and daddy.

Big Nasty

hondasam wrote: »

I'm sure she will not need the Gov jet but what is the harm in using it for her.
I'm sure her family would be happier to have her home than in hospital in the UK.

I don't begrudge Maedhbh and her family getting any breaks they can but if she doesn't need it what's wrong with a normal flight?

I don't need it either but it would be handy all the same! Where do you stop?

Biggins

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Having been a very sick kid myself (not as sick as Meadhbh, thankfully) I can tell you that he won't be in his right mind right now. He will get around to it, once he's gotten his daughter home. My own parents were up the walls when I was ill, mix that with sleep deprivation and you got yourself one mental mammy and daddy.

Totally agree. been there - as have my parents.
A thousand and one things will be running through their minds at the moment, on top of worry and stress.
Don't forget she is far from out of the 'woods' yet. Its still very early days and her body might reject the donated part, then there is the complication of suppressing rejection drugs and getting that cocktail mixture right for her to have any chance of a further successful life.