ULSTER independent from UK and ROI.

Iwasfrozen

end a eknny wrote: »

keith you where born in ireland and you live in ireland that makes you irish its not a very hard concept to grasp. you may like to sing songs about beating the sh1t out of the irish when you are with your friends but that just shows your and theirs ignorance

Who are you to tell someone else what their national identity is? Wars have been fought over that very issue and national borders are always changing anyway. Cop on.

anawfulbogey

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGjjyZzgihM&feature=related


It needed to be here tbh.

end a eknny

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Who are you to tell someone else what their national identity is? Wars have been fought over that very issue and national borders are always changing anyway. Cop on.

your free to call yourself anything you want it wont change the facts that if your born in ireland your irish

Iwasfrozen

end a eknny wrote: »

your free to call yourself anything you want it wont change the facts that if your born in ireland your irish

Fine using that logic you're british because you were born on the British isles. Whether you like it or not.

ardmacha

I have a Martian identity, although born on Earth, and while this has no logic whatsoever, don't any of you be telling me otherwise (except end a eknny perhaps).

Cú Giobach

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Fine using that logic you're british because you were born on the British isles. Whether you like it or not.

I was smiling the other night watching the BBC news, there was a report on the 12th marches by their Irish correspondent, not Northern Irish nor Ulster but just plain and simple, Irish.
Seems logical, their Irish correspondent reporting the news from Ireland.

Solair

Isn't this sort of where NI is headed anyway.
It has its own Parliament, a constitutional setup through the Good Friday Agreement that forces cross community government and cooperation.

The UK and Republic of Ireland have both agreed to allow NI figure out its own future. The UK declared it has no vested interest in forcing it to remain in the UK and the Republic modified its constitutional claim to NI.

People from NI can also be Irish or British as they wish in terms of citizenship.

So, this is pretty much what is already there.

The inter community fighting is more about tribal hatred and ancient history than modern politics or the actual situation in NI.

Also, OP, Ulster is not Northern Ireland, its a larger historical Provence which includes several counties in the Republic of Ireland.

lugha

Cú Giobach wrote: »

I was smiling the other night watching the BBC news, there was a report on the 12th marches by their Irish correspondent, not Northern Irish nor Ulster but just plain and simple, Irish.
Seems logical, their Irish correspondent reporting the news from Ireland.

Would you be similarly amused if they insisted on referring to Northern nationalists as British?

Solair wrote: »

The UK declared it has no vested interest in forcing it to remain in the UK and the Republic modified its constitutional claim to NI.

I would think the plainly have a vested interest in getting shut of NI ASAP giving the huge drain it is on their exchequer.

Solair wrote: »

People from NI can also be Irish or British as they wish in terms of citizenship.

Alas, there are plenty who refuse to respect this right, or to be precise, will respect this right for one tribe only.

Cú Giobach

lugha wrote: »

Would you be similarly amused if they insisted on referring to Northern nationalists as British?

They don't so that's a non issue, but they do consider the events that happen here Irish.

enda1

I guess Northern Irish people are Irish in the same way that Canadians are American.

Perhaps either our country name should change or else the island name should change to remove the ambiguity of the word Irish and the twisting of it to fit the political will of the residents of Northern Ireland.

Cú Giobach

enda1 wrote: »

I guess Northern Irish people are Irish in the same way that Canadians are American.

Not until they are entitled to an American passport.

enda1

Cú Giobach wrote: »

Not until they are entitled to an American passport.

Huh?

murphaph

Cú Giobach wrote: »

Not until they are entitled to an American passport.

There's no such thing.

Anyway, what is it with people on here who can't just let people determine their own national identity (if they want one)!

If a person born on the island of Ireland (or anywhere else) is entitled to a British passport and wants to call themselves British then what is the problem? Similarly for a person born in Britain who is entitled to an Irish passport and who calls themselves Irish? Live and let live ffs.

Solair

enda1 wrote: »

Huh?

Northern Irish people are 100% entitled to an Irish passport and full citizenship of the Republic if they so wish. The same does not apply to Canadians applying for US passports.

They can also come/go to and from the Republic of Ireland at anytime, work, shop, trade, do whatever they like... If they are resident, they can vote here. (Although most of the voting stuff also applies to British people too. If resident here, they can vote in all elections, except the presidential and Irish citizens can vote in UK elections if resident there).

So, it's actually a much more cuddly/close and somewhat more confusing relationship than the US and Canada.

Also, the US and Canada have never been the same country/political entity. The Republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland, and Britain have..

Cú Giobach

murphaph wrote: »

There's no such thing.

Exactly. The comment works on two levels. :rolleyes:

enda1 wrote: »

Huh?

Canadians can't get an American (or US) passport, people from NI can get an Irish one.

Fr Tod Umptious

Cú Giobach wrote: »

I was smiling the other night watching the BBC news, there was a report on the 12th marches by their Irish correspondent, not Northern Irish nor Ulster but just plain and simple, Irish.
Seems logical, their Irish correspondent reporting the news from Ireland.

Again it's all about context

A person with a unionist viewpoint could call themselves Irish but in the context of being Irish as part of Britain, like a Scot would see themslves as Scottish and British, or a welsh person can see themselves as Welsh and British.

A person of a nationalist view point could also call themselves Irish but in the context of being Irish as part of a singular Irish identity, based on Ireland being one nation that occupies the whole Island and is not part of anything else, except the Eu maybe.

But did it ever occur to you that the BBC Irish correspondent is also the one who reports on stories like the IMF bailout for the Republic, the Corrib Gas dispute, the Cloyne report etc ?
They may not be assigned to report of event in NI only.

Cú Giobach

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Again it's all about context

A person with a unionist viewpoint could call themselves Irish but in the context of being Irish as part of Britain, like a Scot would see themslves as Scottish and British, or a welsh person can see themselves as Welsh and British.

A person of a nationalist view point could also call themselves Irish but in the context of being Irish as part of a singular Irish identity, based on Ireland being one nation that occupies the whole Island and is not part of anything else, except the Eu maybe.

Thank you, I have been living on Mars for the past 45 years and had no idea about any of that.

But did it ever occur to you that the BBC Irish correspondent is also the one who reports on stories like the IMF bailout for the Republic, the Corrib Gas dispute, the Cloyne report etc ?
They may not be assigned to report of event in NI only.

Yes, because he is the Irish correspondent.

matthew8

I'm all for an independent Northern Ireland. It's about time people from the South stopped their mentality of "we're liberating them by calling for a united Ireland". Perhaps though, because Armagh, Tyrone, Derry and Fermanagh seem nationalist those 4 alone should join the republic.

View

matthew8 wrote: »

I'm all for an independent Northern Ireland. It's about time people from the South stopped their mentality of "we're liberating them by calling for a united Ireland". Perhaps though, because Armagh, Tyrone, Derry and Fermanagh seem nationalist those 4 alone should join the republic.

Ummm, they are full of SF supporters. Could we have Antrim and Down instead?

problemchimp

matthew8 wrote: »

I'm all for an independent Northern Ireland. It's about time people from the South stopped their mentality of "we're liberating them by calling for a united Ireland". Perhaps though, because Armagh, Tyrone, Derry and Fermanagh seem nationalist those 4 alone should join the republic.

I suppose getting another 4 counties back could be phase 2, I'll have some of that.

KeithAFC

View wrote: »

Ummm, they are full of SF supporters. Could we have Antrim and Down instead?

No.

Bottle_of_Smoke

matthew8 wrote: »

I'm all for an independent Northern Ireland. It's about time people from the South stopped their mentality of "we're liberating them by calling for a united Ireland". Perhaps though, because Armagh, Tyrone, Derry and Fermanagh seem nationalist those 4 alone should join the republic.

Derry isn't really very nationalist outside the city. Coleraine's very unionist. In Armagh you have Portadown, Lurgan, Craigavon, Armagh City

Tyrone/Fermanagh not 100% nationalist either. Then of course much of Down is nationalist, eg Newry, as well as in Antrim there's West Belfast, Ballycastle, Dunloy, Cushendall etc

Repartition not gonna happen

KeithAFC

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Derry isn't really very nationalist outside the city. Coleraine's very unionist. In Armagh you have Portadown, Lurgan, Craigavon, Armagh City

Tyrone/Fermanagh not 100% nationalist either. Then of course much of Down is nationalist, eg Newry, as well as in Antrim there's West Belfast, Ballycastle, Dunloy, Cushendall etc

Repartition not gonna happen

Down has a majority of Protestant population.

enda1

I'd say there's a slim number of people up there who are actually Catholic or Protestant. The way they act at times with the hate filled bile and violence doesn't seem very Christian. Perhaps the veil of Christianity should be dropped and the people stand behind their bigotry and false patriotism instead.

Bottle_of_Smoke

KeithAFC wrote: »

Down has a majority of Protestant population.

I know. "Much of" does not mean "majority"

problemchimp

enda1 wrote: »

I'd say there's a slim number of people up there who are actually Catholic or Protestant. The way they act at times with the hate filled bile and violence doesn't seem very Christian. Perhaps the veil of Christianity should be dropped and the people stand behind their bigotry and false patriotism instead.

Yeah you're right there. It may take generations to dilute the hatred. Religion is just a cover, unite the working classes and move forward.

rasper

Do people really wish for the six counties to be annexed to the Republic, can you imagine the violence and bloodshed that would happen, do you really think that our government , Gardai and defence forces would be ready or willing to control any backlash from the loyalists.
I regard myself as Nationalist but wouldn't wish to take that on , so as long as we continue to offer anyone born there Irish citizenship, who really wants Part xviiii version of the troubles for what is essentially a bit of land. The Brits created the problem and would love to offload it to the South but what could we really do.
I think all we can do is offer support and build closer relationships but a unified Ireland is something for the history books, I'm afraid