Still Waters No Longer Running, Derp.

robindch

mikhail wrote: »

[...] to quote Cicero: "Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone is writing a book."

...says Cicero, no doubt writing a book :rolleyes:

Here's Plato:

Plato wrote:

What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?

Nodin

bluewolf wrote: »

Last weekend’s Phoenix Park stabbings were a vivid manifestation of the rage that now defines our culture, writes JOHN WATERS

the only rage i have is when i read more of your sh!te, mr waters

If you attack the man I'd be forced to pull you back.


I'm getting on though, and might be some time getting there, and may not actually succeed.

Nodin

robindch wrote: »

Plato said something to that effect too, though I don't have time to find the exact quote.

But the general term is nostalgia -- the longing for a distant, poorly-remembered past, filled with warm evenings, youth, hope, a belief in the wisdom and generosity of a benign authority. What Witters is suffering from is the cold realization that the benign authority doesn't exist now, probably didn't exist then, and that the authorities that do exist are fallible human beings with their own interests and limitations and who are, in some cases, perhaps even dumber than he.

Of all the subjects that come up, its the one where a refutation is least likely to be acknowledged, in my experience at least. And that's in regard to eras within living memory or before.

fitz0

Is it wrong that I almost look forward to Fridays now to see what new standards JW has reached in poor writing?

It's almost time! Humour and Batman in one day, I can only hope that TDKR features in his piece tomorrow.

Corkfeen

fitz0 wrote: »

Is it wrong that I almost look forward to Fridays now to see what new standards JW has reached in poor writing?

It's almost time! Humour and Batman in one day, I can only hope that TDKR features in his piece tomorrow.

The much anticipated release of The Dark Knight Rises can be likened to the 3 day wait for Christ to rise. Except, this time it is illustrative of the decaying culture which we live in and this onslaught of materialism that the Dark Knight Rises embodies.

Long gone are the days when Superman (christ) swoops in to save the day. Instead we witness the more secular superhero that is Batman. Science and rationality has replaced the wondrous figure that protected us from liberal lobby groups. But isn't it more rational to believe that superman can save us from ourselves?

The unbigoted and radical notions of the modern world are responsible for this Dark side of our times. We bask in a world of hedonism and greed but this is not enough. So we turn to darkness but Batman cannot save you unless you accept him.

To quote Lt Gordon 'Because he's the hero Gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him. Because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector.' Jesus like Batman, is on the run from the secular powers that be but he will continue to protect you as long as you accept him into your heart and escape the decaying secular culture of Gotham (Ireland).


**
I tried to channel my inner Waters, like John I chose to go for a Tangent that made no sense by the very end of it (I had no suitable anecdotes to accompany it). The real question is which one is Jesus; Superman or Batman? :pac:

jank

Dave! wrote: »

John offers his unique perspective on the trouble in the Phoenix Park last weekend: too much materialism, and the loss of a "sense of the mysterious meaning of reality".

His suggested remedy: we should go back to the 50s.

I may not be a fan of JW but I think in this case he is right. Young people in society are like materialist robots to some extent. Many of them lack empathy, their sole achievement might be the number of friends they have on facebook.

This isnt only an Irish phenomenon. It is very wide spread in Australia too. Last week a 19 year old was killed when he was setup up by a stranger in kings cross. No reason at all for it. The same person who murdered him also assaulted 3 other people that night. Probably just for kicks. This is not an uncommon event. There is a serious sickness in some elements of society and I think its more prevalent too in the young.

Nodin

jank wrote: »

I may not be a fan of JW but I think in this case he is right. Young people in society are like materialist robots to some extent. Many of them lack empathy, their sole achievement might be the number of friends they have on facebook.

This isnt only an Irish phenomenon. It is very wide spread in Australia too. Last week a 19 year old was killed when he was setup up by a stranger in kings cross. No reason at all for it. The same person who murdered him also assaulted 3 other people that night. Probably just for kicks. This is not an uncommon event. There is a serious sickness in some elements of society and I think its more prevalent too in the young.

Young people do stupid things??????????????????????

joseph brand

Corkfeen wrote: »

The much anticipated release of The Dark Knight Rises can be likened to the 3 day wait for Christ to rise. Except, this time it is illustrative of the decaying culture which we live in and this onslaught of materialism that the Dark Knight Rises embodies.

Long gone are the days when Superman (christ) swoops in to save the day. Instead we witness the more secular superhero that is Batman. Science and rationality has replaced the wondrous figure that protected us from liberal lobby groups. But isn't it more rational to believe that superman can save us from ourselves?

The unbigoted and radical notions of the modern world are responsible for this Dark side of our times. We bask in a world of hedonism and greed but this is not enough. So we turn to darkness but Batman cannot save you unless you accept him.

To quote Lt Gordon 'Because he's the hero Gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him. Because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector.' Jesus like Batman, is on the run from the secular powers that be but he will continue to protect you as long as you accept him into your heart and escape the decaying secular culture of Gotham (Ireland).


**
I tried to channel my inner Waters, like John I chose to go for a Tangent that made no sense by the very end of it (I had no suitable anecdotes to accompany it). The real question is which one is Jesus; Superman or Batman? :pac:

Jesus vs Batman.

Batman could beat Jesus in a match of close quarters combat.

joseph brand

jank wrote: »

I may not be a fan of JW but I think in this case he is right. Young people in society are like materialist robots to some extent. Many of them lack empathy, their sole achievement might be the number of friends they have on facebook.

This isnt only an Irish phenomenon. It is very wide spread in Australia too. Last week a 19 year old was killed when he was setup up by a stranger in kings cross. No reason at all for it. The same person who murdered him also assaulted 3 other people that night. Probably just for kicks. This is not an uncommon event. There is a serious sickness in some elements of society and I think its more prevalent too in the young.

Did you not even read the posts above from mikhail and robindch?

Nodin

joseph brand wrote: »

Did you not even read the posts above from mikhail and robindch?

Nods law.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79712753&postcount=244

Penn

seamus wrote: »

I wonder is there a name for the cognitive biaise where people innately think that things are all worse now than they were before. It seems to be a natural human phenomenom, evident in all narratives since human prehistory.

"Two things are true in this world: Things are always getting better, and people are always convinced things are getting worse" - Penn Jillette

robindch

Penn Jillette wrote:

Two things are true in this world: Things are always getting better, but some sad people are convinced they're getting worse.

FYP.

recedite

robindch wrote: »

-- a distant, poorly-remembered past, filled with warm evenings, youth, hope, a belief in the wisdom and generosity of a benign authority...

Ah yes, I remember well those halcyon days......
Destroyed by those pesky atheists

Galvasean

Nostalgia was better in my day...

fitz0

I have to hand it to Mr Waters, he surprised me again this week. He wrote a decent piece. Will wonders never cease? There wasn't even a single mention of the church!

jank

Nodin wrote: »

Young people do stupid things??????????????????????

Agreed. Funny that when someone young does something stupid its "ah their young". When someone involved in religion does it its "BLAME RELIGION!!!"
Hypocrisy at its best.

jank

joseph brand wrote: »

Did you not even read the posts above from mikhail and robindch?

Yes, however that is to simply dismiss all problems we have in modern society. Simply a shrug of the shoulders. It does make sense to me that such a sentiment would exist here however.

joseph brand

jank wrote: »

Agreed. Funny that when someone young does something stupid its "ah their young". When someone involved in religion does it its "BLAME RELIGION!!!"
Hypocrisy at its best.

They're young I think you mean.

They're not mutually exclusive. Young people AND religion can both be stupid. So are bigots, racists, Fianna Fail supporters, creationists . etc I don't see the hypocrisy.

jank wrote: »

Yes, however that is to simply dismiss all problems we have in modern society. Simply a shrug of the shoulders. It does make sense to me that such a sentiment would exist here however.

The biggest 'shrug of the shoulders' is when someone says "eh I dunno, god did it'. You won't find that statement here, unless a theist pops in to add zilch to the discussion.

By the way, how is it dismissing the problems in our society? It's simply saying that these problems aren't exactly new, except the problem you have with Atheism.

What problems are you thinking of/ worried about?

jank

I had a big long reply written out but deleted it as I don't want to be discussing this with 5 random people on the net as I have better things to do with my time.
Ill summarize in two sentences.

This whole forum is a big circle jerk AND an echo chamber where instead of widening discussion it curtails ideas.

joseph brand

jank wrote: »

I had a big long reply written out but deleted it as I don't want to be discussing this with 5 random people on the net as I have better things to do with my time.
Ill summarize in two sentences.

This whole forum is a big circle jerk AND an echo chamber where instead of widening discussion it curtails ideas.

You have nothing to say, and this forum doesn't suit you?

Fine so.

robindch

jank wrote: »

This whole forum is a big circle jerk AND an echo chamber where instead of widening discussion it curtails ideas.

It's a mystery you bother posting so much here then.

Anyhow, as I suspect a few beers might have preceded the above, I'll leave it go -- we're a forgiving lot around here

Sarky

You could have shortened it further to "Waaaaaaaaaah!"

Nodin

jank wrote: »

Agreed. Funny that when someone young does something stupid its "ah their young". When someone involved in religion does it its "BLAME RELIGION!!!"
Hypocrisy at its best.

Thats nothing to do with what you were trying to imply, or what I was getting at.

Theres a documentary on RTE 1 now about the "animal gang" of the 1930's and 40's. It started at two, but doubtless its available via the player. It features young men involved in various criminal activities, murder and violence from the 'golden years'.

jank wrote: »

Yes, however that is to simply dismiss all problems we have in modern society.

So you DO remember the context now. Wonderful.

Sonics2k

Honestly, every time I see the name John Waters I think of this guy:


I wonder what that says about me :pac:

Enkidu

robindch wrote: »

...says Cicero, no doubt writing a book :rolleyes:

Here's Plato:

"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on the frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words. When I was a boy, we were taught to be discrete and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise and impatient of restraint." Hesiod, Greece, Eighth Century B.C.

"Come now, be a man. Don't stand about in the public square, or wander about the boulevard. When walking in the street, don't look all around. Be humble and show fear before your monitor. When you show terror, the monitor will like you."
Anonymous, Complaint about the younger generation, Babylon, 18th Century B.C.

Nodin

I blame them feckin plays
Anonymous Greek

tawnyowl

Nodin wrote: »

I blame them feckin plays
Anonymous Greek

Possibly Plato - ever read the Phaedrus dialogue?:)

tawnyowl

Waters' latest missive concerns t'internet (he's agin it) and how it debases public discourse. In particular, he's writing about obnoxious tweets.

Here's the closing paragraph from his article:

Personally, I would prefer if, instead of pursuing individual tweeters, the police arrested Jack Dorsey, the creator of Twitter, and closed his network down. Actually, i wish they wud burn the Twitter founder in oil leave his carcass out for the buzzards. Seriously.

I'm not sure if this is him trying to be sarcastic, writing in the style of the obnoxious tweeters or what. The derp is strong in this one.

Sarky

This just in: Out-of-touch loon doesn't understand technology, decides to fear and hate it instead.

Mistress 69

The Internet is debasing our public discourse




Online discussion is reducing collective intelligence to lowest common denominator, writes JOHN WATERS

MY FIRST impression, on hearing about the young man arrested after he had tweeted his disaffection at the performance of British diver Tom Daley was that he was, as we used to be able to say, “touched”. By any normal judgment, his comments appeared disproportionate, erratic and gratuitously offensive.

Firstly, the tweeter had attacked Daley for his failure to win a gold medal by telling him he had let down his recently deceased father.

When Daley responded in a not unreasonably offended manner, our man came back with an apology: “I’m sorry mate I just wanted you to win cause its the Olympics I’m just annoyed we didn’t win I’m sorry tom accept my apology”.

Later, he underwent another mood swing: “I’m going to find you and i’m going to drown you in the pool you cocky t*** your a nobody people like you make me sick”. He also threatened to shoot a fan who had come to the diver’s defence, telling him he would get “a knife stuck down your f****** throat”.

The first impression, of someone not quite right in the head, was followed by a second thought: there is something familiar about the tone of these communications. In fact, the tweets were broadly in keeping with the pitch and timbre of internet discourse – perhaps a little more extreme than the norm in the specificity of their menaces, but not that far out of line, really.

There is something about the internet that provokes in many users utterly out-of-kilter responses towards events and other people, a form of episodic coprolalia that seems, for now, to be particular to the medium. It appears that a combination of anonymity and defensiveness causes users to revert to a form of pre-civilisation, in which a “kill-or-be-killed” mentality comes to the fore.

Early reports about the Olympic tweets episode referred only to the content relating to Daley’s father, leading to comparisons with the case of Paul Chambers, whose conviction for sending a menacing tweet was recently overturned by the London court of appeal. Chambers, frustrated by the temporary closure of an airport, had tweeted: “You’ve got a week and a bit to get your s*** together otherwise I am blowing the airport sky high!!”

There is something satisfying in the fact that society’s response to such provocations has itself been so heavy-handed. Nobody could seriously have imagined Paul Chambers intended to blow up the offending airport in Doncaster, but common sense did not intervene to prevent a massive expenditure of police and court resources. After his conviction, Chambers wrote in the Guardian that he was terrified “of speaking my mind, terrified that my life has potentially been ruined”.

“Speaking my mind.” What internet users seem to overlook is that the content of public discourse has not until now comprised the first-thought responses of contributors but (usually) something more considered, measured and refined.

The effect of the leaching of internet discourse into the mainstream, therefore, is more serious than a mere coarsening of public discussion: it is really reducing our public conversation to the level of exchanges between fishwives and pub bores, and ratcheting the collective intelligence down towards the lowest common denominator.

Internet fetishism has thus far prevented any discussion of these issues. Journalists, whose job it is to interrogate phenomena in an open and impartial fashion, are extraordinarily blase, acquiescent and unthinking when it comes to anything related to the web, despite the potential for profound consequences for the processing of information and debate in our cultures.

The general attitude – perhaps arising from a fear of seeming out of touch – seems to be that these new phenomena are unreservedly to be welcomed. Recently, there has been a soft initiative within this newspaper to persuade columnists to engage with posters who contribute to threads at the end of articles published on our web edition.

I am resisting, not because I am fearful of absorbing abuse (I am prepared to go on air with George Hook, after all) but because I believe these platforms are about something quite different from our conventional understandings of public debate.

Most internet comment traffic comes into being not on the basis of the instant issue but as a means for contributors to announce themselves to the world. And, since these announcements must take place in a highly competitive environment, there occurs an inevitable escalation in the abusiveness and venom, which contributes nothing to the discussion except heat and hatred.

Unfortunately, any attempt to enable society to focus on these questions is itself subject to the action of the problematic phenomenon, being instantly drowned in waves of abuse and derision.

The standard response of internet fetishists is that we “suck it up”.

It’s democracy, fascist! So, instead of looking squarely at the issue, we retreat into silence and wait for the next bureaucratic blunderbuss to intervene in a manner curiously in harmony with the offence.

Personally, I would prefer if, instead of pursuing individual tweeters, the police arrested Jack Dorsey, the creator of Twitter, and closed his network down. Actually, i wish they wud burn the Twitter founder in oil leave his carcass out for the buzzards. Seriously.