Did Churchill ever say anything about the Irish that fought for the British army?

IRISHSPORTSGUY

Surfing the web for quotes on this subject but can't find anything. Believe it or not, more men fought from the south than the north and I think if he said nothing other than the Irish 'frollicking with the Germans' that's pretty much spitting in their faces IMO.

who the fug

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

Surfing the web for quotes on this subject but can't find anything. Believe it or not, more men fought from the south than the north and I think if he said nothing other than the Irish 'frollicking with the Germans' that's pretty much spitting in their faces IMO.

When I think of these days I think also of other episodes and personalities. I do not forget Lieutenant-Commander Esmonde, V.C., D.S.O., Lance-Corporal Keneally, V.C., Captain Fegen, V.C., and other Irish heroes that I could easily recite, and all bitterness by Britain for the Irish race dies in my heart. I can only pray that in years which I shall not see the shame will be forgotten and the glories will endure, and that the peoples of the British Isles and of the British Commonwealth of Nations will walk together in mutual comprehension and forgiveness.

Comes after the attack in his victory speech

getz

who the fug wrote: »

When I think of these days I think also of other episodes and personalities. I do not forget Lieutenant-Commander Esmonde, V.C., D.S.O., Lance-Corporal Keneally, V.C., Captain Fegen, V.C., and other Irish heroes that I could easily recite, and all bitterness by Britain for the Irish race dies in my heart. I can only pray that in years which I shall not see the shame will be forgotten and the glories will endure, and that the peoples of the British Isles and of the British Commonwealth of Nations will walk together in mutual comprehension and forgiveness.

Comes after the attack in his victory speech

the irish contribution to the british during WW11 was big,over a 100,000 men and women lived and worked in britain during the war,more irish nurses in english hospitals than english,the irish lived and died alongside their british brethren in the bombings,building airfields,in the factories,in transport,and also in the armed forces,without them it would have been near impossible to keep this country running,

who the fug

getz wrote: »

the irish contribution to the british during WW11 was big,over a 100,000 men and women lived and worked in britain during the war,more irish nurses in english hospitals than english,the irish lived and died alongside their british brethren in the bombings,building airfields,in the factories,in transport,and also in the armed forces,without them it would have been near impossible to keep this country running,

And your point is?

getz

who the fug wrote: »

And your point is?

if your looking for some ant-irish quote from me you are not getting one

who the fug

getz wrote: »

if your looking for some ant-irish quote from me you are not getting one

I wasn't asking for anti Irish quote, just wondering why you quoted me , and stated the bleeding obvious

getz

who the fug wrote: »

I wasn't asking for anti Irish quote, just wondering why you quoted me , and stated the bleeding obvious

the war effort by irish citizen was more that who joined the british armed forces from ireland,most would join just to get into a war and see action,its those irish civilians who to me are the real irish heroes,

who the fug

getz wrote: »

the war effort by irish citizen was more that who joined the british armed forces from ireland,most would join just to get into a war and see action,its those irish civilians who to me are the real irish heroes,

Still confused, OP asked did Churchill ever thank the Southern Irish people who served in the forces I quoted the relevant piece of the speech with no comment.

Godot.

who the fug wrote: »

When I think of these days I think also of other episodes and personalities. I do not forget Lieutenant-Commander Esmonde, V.C., D.S.O., Lance-Corporal Keneally, V.C., Captain Fegen, V.C., and other Irish heroes that I could easily recite, and all bitterness by Britain for the Irish race dies in my heart. I can only pray that in years which I shall not see the shame will be forgotten and the glories will endure, and that the peoples of the British Isles and of the British Commonwealth of Nations will walk together in mutual comprehension and forgiveness.



Comes after the attack in his victory speech

I think the OP meant did he honour the Irishmen that fought in WWII specifically. Churchill makes it sound like no blood was spilt and simply banishes Ireland's (unofficial) contribution.

who the fug

Godot. wrote: »

I think the OP meant did he honour the Irishmen that fought in WWII specifically. Churchill makes it sound like no blood was spilt and simply banishes Ireland's (unofficial) contribution.

No argument there, that is the closet I have ever seen in any of his speeches.

Fratton Fred

Godot. wrote: »

I think the OP meant did he honour the Irishmen that fought in WWII specifically. Churchill makes it sound like no blood was spilt and simply banishes Ireland's (unofficial) contribution.

What more are you looking for?

Ireland did not contribute to WWII, those that joined did so off their own back and Churchill mentions three heroes specifically, all of whom gave their lives.

I'm not sure what more you are looking for here.

getz

Godot. wrote: »

I think the OP meant did he honour the Irishmen that fought in WWII specifically. Churchill makes it sound like no blood was spilt and simply banishes Ireland's (unofficial) contribution.

those from ireland who did indeed aligned themselves with the british/allies during the WW11,were ignored and shunned by their countymen and goverment,it would not of been in their best interests [at that time] to highlight their bravery.

ejmaztec

I think that, had the allies had made a big thing about the Irish participants' activities in WW2, the North Strand bombing wouldn't have been the only incident in the history books, and the Nazis wouldn't have claimed that any of them were accidents.

PatsytheNazi

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

Surfing the web for quotes on this subject but can't find anything. Believe it or not, more men fought from the south than the north and I think if he said nothing other than the Irish 'frollicking with the Germans' that's pretty much spitting in their faces IMO.

who the fug wrote: »

When I think of these days I think also of other episodes and personalities. I do not forget Lieutenant-Commander Esmonde, V.C., D.S.O., Lance-Corporal Keneally, V.C., Captain Fegen, V.C., and other Irish heroes that I could easily recite, and all bitterness by Britain for the Irish race dies in my heart. I can only pray that in years which I shall not see the shame will be forgotten and the glories will endure, and that the peoples of the British Isles and of the British Commonwealth of Nations will walk together in mutual comprehension and forgiveness.

Comes after the attack in his victory speech

Ofcourse Churchill had plausible things to say regarding those from Ireland who were in the British forces in WW2. And I'm sure he had similiar to say about the Aussies, Kiwi's, Canadians, Indians, etc. It was in his interest - so long as their killing and dying for Britain ofcourse. If the British had invaded the 26 counties during WW2 and the Irish had rightfully put up resistance - do you think the fat windbag would have been praising the Irish efforts to resist :rolleyes: That would have been ' terrorism ' ofcourse :mad:

Dev " Mr. Churchill makes it clear that, in certain circumstances, he would have violated our neutrality and that he would justify his action by Britain’s necessity. It seems strange to me that Mr. Churchill does not see that this, if accepted, would mean Britain’s necessity would become a moral code and that when this necessity became sufficiently great, other people’s rights were not to count. "

who the fug

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

Ofcourse Churchill had plausible things to say regarding those from Ireland who were in the British forces in WW2. And I'm sure he had similiar to say about the Aussies, Kiwi's, Canadians, Indians, etc. It was in his interest - so long as their killing and dying for Britain ofcourse. If the British had invaded the 26 counties during WW2 and the Irish had rightfully put up resistance - do you think the fat windbag would have been praising the Irish efforts to resist :rolleyes: That would have been ' terrorism ' ofcourse :mad:

Dev " Mr. Churchill makes it clear that, in certain circumstances, he would have violated our neutrality and that he would justify his action by Britain’s necessity. It seems strange to me that Mr. Churchill does not see that this, if accepted, would mean Britain’s necessity would become a moral code and that when this necessity became sufficiently great, other people’s rights were not to count. "

and the relevance to the opening post of the above is?

PatsytheNazi

who the fug wrote: »

and the relevance to the opening post of the above is?

Churchill had plausible things to say regarding those from Ireland who were killing and dying for Britain ofcourse.

Simples.

Snickers Man

who the fug wrote: »

When I think of these days I think also of other episodes and personalities. I do not forget Lieutenant-Commander Esmonde, V.C., D.S.O., Lance-Corporal Keneally, V.C., Captain Fegen, V.C., and other Irish heroes that I could easily recite, and all bitterness by Britain for the Irish race dies in my heart. I can only pray that in years which I shall not see the shame will be forgotten and the glories will endure, and that the peoples of the British Isles and of the British Commonwealth of Nations will walk together in mutual comprehension and forgiveness.

Comes after the attack in his victory speech

The only pebble in the shoe is that none of those three men were strictly Irish. All were born in Britain, although two of them, Fegen and Esmonde, did have Irish ancestry. Esmonde indeed was the son of an Irish Nationalist MP and his youth and education was split between both countries.

The third, Kennneally, is perhaps the most interesting. He wasn't Irish at all. Indeed he was an imposter. His obituaryin the Daily Telegraph shows that he was an Englishman, the illegitimate son of a high class prostitute and, he claimed, one of her wealthy clients a prominent Jewish businessman. Neither had any Irish connection.

His story was that he had actually deserted from the army while serving under his real name and then decided, for whatever reason, to re-enlist. Obviously preferring to avoid the consequences of his previous desertion he acquired the identity papers of an Irish navvy and joined the Irish Guards.

It's a fascinating story and one that would make a great movie. But he was no Irishman.

who the fug

Did Churchill have that information to hand when he wrote that speech

Snickers Man

Probably not. I speak with the wisdom of 66 years' hindsight.

InTheTrees

getz wrote: »

those from ireland who did indeed aligned themselves with the british/allies during the WW11,were ignored and shunned by their countymen and goverment,it would not of been in their best interests [at that time] to highlight their bravery.

Yes. A background in the british army was not something to be bragged about in the 50's, 60's 70's.

InTheTrees

There are facilities and services provided by the british government for their veterans in the republic. It was nice to see the queen visit Leapordstown hospital:

http://www.lph.ie/history.php

MarchDub

Snickers Man wrote: »

Probably not. I speak with the wisdom of 66 years' hindsight.

Churchill wouldn't have cared if they were Irish or not - his point ever was only to make a point - fact checking was not what he was in to. Churchill was all about the 'theatre' of politics and dramatic wordology that would have resonance. If he hadn't gone into politics he would have had a great career in advertising.

Churchill's contemporaries in parliament point to his speeches in the House of Common being about him seizing the drama of the moment. He would enter the House, make a speech and leave without any reference to what was said before or after his own monologue. It worked for the public.

Fratton Fred

MarchDub wrote: »

Churchill wouldn't have cared if they were Irish or not - his point ever was only to make a point - fact checking was not what he was in to. Churchill was all about the 'theatre' of politics and dramatic wordology that would have resonance. If he hadn't gone into politics he would have had a great career in advertising.

Churchill's contemporaries in parliament point to his speeches in the House of Common being about him seizing the drama of the moment. He would enter the House, make a speech and leave without any reference to what was said before or after his own monologue. It worked for the public.

That's a good description of him. He was passionate and his passion rubbed off on other people, like it does with motivational speakers.

It worked, he kept Britain in the fight when a lot of others would have caved in. I remember my Grandmother saying that they were huddled in their small house in Portsmouth, certain of invasion and listening to Churchill's "Finest Hour" speech. She said the mood of the nation changed and suddenly nothing seemed to matter other than defeating the Nazis.

Wibbs

getz wrote: »

those from ireland who did indeed aligned themselves with the british/allies during the WW11,were ignored and shunned by their countymen and goverment,it would not of been in their best interests [at that time] to highlight their bravery.

It seems to have depended. I have relatives that fought in that war on the British side(and American) and never took any stick about it after. That's in Dublin mind, other parts of the country may well have been different. Many left for Britain in the 30's for purely financial reasons too.

getz

Wibbs wrote: »

It seems to have depended. I have relatives that fought in that war on the British side(and American) and never took any stick about it after. That's in Dublin mind, other parts of the country may well have been different. Many left for Britain in the 30's for purely financial reasons too.

in ireland is there a war memorial for those irish who died during WW11,i know there is some sort of remembrance for irish merchantmen who were killed