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Unions call to not pay mortgages

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    #272
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    You also went from not giving a "fiddlers" who it was sold to, but being vehemently against it being sold to a speculator!! You think that what goes on in your head is "policy". You said that people were being forced to buy houses down the country, then less than 5 posts later said that you knew people weren't being forced to live down there!! Need i go on?


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    #273
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Tayla wrote: »
    Do you think people got ridiculously high mortgages that they could barely manage on 2 wages just for the fun of it?

    They were brainwashed from the government and media that prices were only going to keep going up and people panicked.

    No, people got ridiculously high mortgages that they could barely manage on 2 wages because they didn't do the research, nothing to do with brain-washing, pure Irish mentality. I can get this now, feck the consequences, shure it'll work itself out.


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    #274
    HellFireClub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭HellFireClub


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    You also went from not giving a "fiddlers" who it was sold to, but being vehemently against it being sold to a speculator!! You think that what goes on in your head is "policy". You said that people were being forced to buy houses down the country, then less than 5 posts later said that you knew people weren't being forced to live down there!! Need i go on?

    Yes, you need to explain why you need a government policy to tell you that you have three options when it comes to putting a roof over your head:

    (1) Buy

    (2) Rent

    (3) Sleep rough

    Why do you need a leaflet or a link to some government department to be able to get your head around what most kids can understand???

    You asked me did I basically interview the person who was buying my house to accertain where they were from (Dublin or some other place) and I answered that i didn't give a fiddler's who they were or where they were from. I further answered that I was not prepared to sell my home to an investor because I think they are parasites, and I didn't, nor did I have to! There was no shortage of interest in my house when I was selling it, I could have played different interested parties off each other and got them all competing with each other and trying to outbid, I DIDN'T! I took the first offer that matched my criteria, which were (1) I got what I was asking for the property and (2) That I wasn't selling to a property parasite.

    We can do this all night long if you want, I don't care, the answers will be the same.


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    #275
    andrew
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,372 Mod ✭✭✭✭andrew


    Christ, this thread is a testament to some people's aversion to accepting that they made a stupid decision and must take responsibility for it.


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    #276
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    20Cent wrote: »
    If everyone thought like that no one except the very rich would own property. Or even start businesses for that matter.

    Not at all.
    For example, mid boom I thought about trading up. It seemed like a pretty good idea. Prices were rising and it looked like, even if there was a correction at some point, I was at a very low risk of negative equity.
    I could just about afford the new repayments but after doing a few back of an envelope stress tests (a few points on the interest rate, a cut in my income, how many months could I last with no income), I decided against it.

    That's all first time buyers needed to do. If they failed some simple self imposed stress tests, then they probably shouldn't have got into the market. This is no guarantee; some people did stress test themselves and still ended up in trouble through no fault of their own that they couldn't have reasonably foreseen (e.g. if they lost their job in a sector that has collapsed), but anyone who is in trouble now because they had a pay cut or rate rises really only has themselves to blame.

    Of course there were reasons why people didn't stress test themselves (some based on greed, some on fear), but at the end of the day adults are responsible for their own decisions.


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    #277
    motherriley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 128 ✭✭motherriley


    The Big Union in UK did not help these people, council sacked 6.500 all staff and promised to take them back on a reduced rate.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/jul/05/shropshire-council-sacks-workforce


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    #278
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    HellFireClub wrote: »
    Yes, you need to explain why you need a government policy to tell you that you have three options when it comes to putting a roof over your head:

    (1) Buy

    (2) Rent

    (3) Sleep rough?????

    Why do you need a leaflet or a link to some government department to be able to get your head around what most kids can understand???

    You asked me did I basically interview the person who was buying my house to accertain where they were from (Dublin or some other place) and I answered that i didn't give a fiddler's who they were or where they were from. I further answered that I was not prepared to sell my home to an investor because I think they are parasites, and I didn't, nor did I have to! There was no shortage of interest in my house when I was selling it, I could have played different interested parties off each other and got them all competing with each other and trying to outbid, I DIDN'T! I took the first offer that matched my criteria, which were (1) I got what I was asking for the property and (2) That I wasn't selling to a property parasite.

    We can do this all night long if you want, I don't care, the answers will be the same.

    You also said that if you were from Dublin you should be entitled to live there. Why then, did you not tell your estate agent that you wanted a true blue dub to buy your house??


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    #279
    HellFireClub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭HellFireClub


    dvpower wrote: »
    Not at all.
    For example, mid boom I thought about trading up. It seemed like a pretty good idea. Prices were rising and it looked like, even if there was a correction at some point, I was at a very low risk of negative equity.
    I could just about afford the new repayments but after doing a few back of an envelope stress tests (a few points on the interest rate, a cut in my income, how many months could I last with no income), I decided against it.

    That's all first time buyers needed to do. If they failed some simple self imposed stress tests, then they probably shouldn't have got into the market. This is no guarantee; some people did stress test themselves and still ended up in trouble through no fault of their own that they couldn't have reasonably foreseen (e.g. if they lost their job in a sector that has collapsed), but anyone who is in trouble now because they had a pay cut or rate rises really only has themselves to blame.

    Of course there were reasons why people didn't stress test themselves (some based on greed, some on fear), but at the end of the day adults are responsible for their own decisions.

    What about the banks? Should they not have been doing these stress tests??? And the Financial Regulator who was supposed to keep the banks in check, all these folks on 500K basic salary, are they at all culpable in any of this???

    And the leader of the country at the time who was telling people to go off and commit suicide if they found issue with any of this, how do you explain that?


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    #280
    francie81
    Registered Users Posts: 1,412 ✭✭✭francie81


    Am sure when someone goes to buy a house you have to be thinking about the risk taking same for a car, television whatever the case may be so when the **** hits the fan its YOUR responsibility DEAL WITH IT other than the OP way.

    Yours,
    Francie


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    #281
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,939 ✭✭✭20Cent


    francie81 wrote: »
    Am sure when someone goes to buy a house you have to be thinking about the risk taking same for a car, television whatever the case may be so when the **** hits the fan its YOUR responsibility DEAL WITH IT other than the OP way.

    Yours,
    Francie

    If you buy a car or a television and someone comes a long and smashes it up its their problem too. These banks, speculators and developers smashed up the economy.


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    #282
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    HellFireClub wrote: »
    What about the banks? Should they not have been doing these stress tests??? And the Financial Regulator who was supposed to keep the banks in check, all these folks on 500K basic salary, are they at all culpable in any of this???

    And the leader of the country at the time who was telling people to go off and commit suicide if they found issue with any of this, how do you explain that?

    These people are all culpable. The senior bank people should all be sacked imo. FF should be politically destroyed.

    But at the end of the day, the final responsibility is on the grown adult to made the massive financial committment.


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    #283
    LeBash
    Registered Users Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭LeBash


    if Unions called for this, are the Union leaders not going to pay their mortage on their leafy Foxrock homes? I'd love to see the proof.


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    #284
    HellFireClub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭HellFireClub


    dvpower wrote: »
    These people are all culpable. The senior bank people should all be sacked imo. FF should be politically destroyed.

    But at the end of the day, the final responsibility is on the grown adult to made the massive financial committment.

    Yeah, the grown adult who just wants to have a house for the family and is torn between all sorts of advice, with the people who are at the very top of society in terms of leadership and managing the country, telling you that you should just get on with it and ride the celtic Tiger wave of success and that if you don't do it now, then you will be outflanked by prices and you'll be condemned to rent for the rest of your life!!!

    You wouldn't have to be gullible to have been taken in by all of this back in the day. People are not financial experts, they rely on sound advice, and when everyone from the leader of the country down, was telling you that you needed to do something or you would get locked out of the property market for ever and ever, what are you do to?!?!?!?!?

    And I say this as someone who lost nothing in all of this, with no axe to grind!


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    #285
    HellFireClub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭HellFireClub


    LeBash wrote: »
    if Unions called for this, are the Union leaders not going to pay their mortage on their leafy Foxrock homes? I'd love to see the proof.

    They don't have mortgages!

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/geraghtys-des-res-and-the-house-jack-built-1937151.html


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    #286
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    LeBash wrote: »
    if Unions called for this, are the Union leaders not going to pay their mortage on their leafy Foxrock homes? I'd love to see the proof.
    I think someone posted a link a few pages ago - most of them are mortgage free; they'll be ok.


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    #287
    francie81
    Registered Users Posts: 1,412 ✭✭✭francie81


    20Cent wrote: »
    If you buy a car or a television and someone comes a long and smashes it up its their problem too. These banks, speculators and developers smashed up the economy.

    Your on abit of a different analogy thats not for the average citizen to deal with but the government to punish the people culpable for wreaking havoc yet still doesn't take a way the fact that everyone else in the country partied on in grabbing the credit when it was supposedly there for life or shall I say led to believe we'd be rich forever.


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    #288
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    HellFireClub wrote: »
    Yeah, the grown adult who just wants to have a house for the family and is torn between all sorts of advice, with the people who are at the very top of society in terms of leadership and managing the country, telling you that you should just get on with it and ride the celtic Tiger wave of success and that if you don't do it now, then you will be outflanked by prices and you'll be condemned to rent for the rest of your life!!!

    You wouldn't have to be gullible to have been taken in by all of this back in the day. People are not financial experts, they rely on sound advice, and when everyone from the leader of the country down, was telling you that you needed to do something or you would get locked out of the property market for ever and ever, what are you do to?!?!?!?!?

    And I say this as someone who lost nothing in all of this, with no axe to grind!

    I agree with most of this and I've got sympathy for people who are in trouble, even if its largely of their own making.

    But sympathy is as far as I want to go. I'm not willing to put cash on the table.


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    #289
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    The great thing about the Internet is we have a record of all the online conversations that were had during the boom. It easily disproves any argument that people were "just trying to put a roof over their head".

    I looked at this thread at random:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054939120
    Look at,im an adult get me outta here program for tips, if you team up with friend,relative, go 50/50 ,40/60 on JOINT house purchase ,in dublin, in ten years time ,you could sell up,buy 2bed house in country,houses down country ,much cheaper , they are not building enough houses in dublin,therefore prices going up,ten percent, dublin is now an international city,like london, prices will ALWAYS go up, or buy apartment ,if you cant afford house,more people should look at joint house purchase options, theres social house and coops, building houses too.
    Muah haw haw. Oh how wrong etc.

    In 25 years time I'll own my own house and probably be a million or two richer by then thanks to it.

    After 25 years of renting you'll have what exactly?

    Oh, but renters have a better quality of life?

    True, more money to spend on future skip fodder like PS2s, Plasmas, DVDs and other junk and more nights out in over-priced Dublin watering-holes.

    I'd rather put my money in an appreicating asset than pay someone else's mortgage, thanks very much.

    Oh but there might be a crash, slump, etc etc...

    Listen, draw a graph of average house cost over time from say the 1950's onwards. That line is only ever going to go one direction - up. Sure there might be a slump, a blip, a readjustment, but the line will only dust itself off and continue it's upward trend.
    As one of the posters said, buy in West/Meath.

    I bought a 100 Sq. Metre 4 bed-semi D in a small town just outside Asbourne 2 years ago fof €235K. Had it valued recently at €350K.

    It takes me 40 mins to hit Dublin City Centre if I go the M1 or an hour if I go via the N2.

    Plus it has IMHO one of the best take-out pizzarias outside of Italy!

    There's lots of bargains to be had in Meath/West Meath if you look carefully and lots of new apartments in Ashbourne.

    I'd be a bit leary anywhere out Kildare way. The RedCow is already a car-park and Adamstown will just compound the problem.

    Personally I think you'll be in la-la-denial-land if you think that they'll be a dramatic crash here anytime soon. I was thinking the same when I got back here from London in 2001 and I held off a bit too long.


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    #290
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    hmmm wrote: »
    The great thing about the Internet is we have a record of all the online conversations that were had during the boom. It easily disproves any argument that people were "just trying to put a roof over their head".

    I looked at this thread at random:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054939120

    To be fair, the OP on that thread highlights one of the big pressures there was at the time - every increasing house prices leading to the fear that people wouldn't be able to buy if they didn't get on the property ladder now.

    Some greed exhibited in those posts, granted.


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    #291
    Eire 80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭Eire 80


    I purchased a house in 06 for 300k paying approx 1100 per month with PTSB. I am not on a tracker, my own fault I know.

    I am now paying 1600 euros per month (5.9%) and about to go into arrears. 1300 of the 1600 is interest. I have no issue paying my debts at a reasonable rate, its the banks who are being greedy so stop turning on each other, strike on!

    If people want something to piss and moan about check out the lumpsums/pensions our ex-senators are getting.


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    #292
    carm
    Registered Users Posts: 171 ✭✭carm


    Deleted User wrote: »
    rent!!

    Again, we have this not-well-thought-out rhetoric. Rent with what? Oh yes, rent supplement. Where does rent supplement come from? Oh yes, it comes from the taxpayer via the HSE.

    Genius. Absolute Genius.


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    #293
    danbohan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭danbohan


    Eire 80 wrote: »
    I purchased a house in 06 for 300k paying approx 1100 per month with PTSB. I am not on a tracker, my own fault I know.

    I am now paying 1600 euros per month (5.9%) and about to go into arrears. 1300 of the 1600 is interest. I have no issue paying my debts at a reasonable rate, its the banks who are being greedy so stop turning on each other, strike on!

    If people want something to piss and moan about check out the lumpsums/pensions our ex-senators are getting.

    and you think that 5.9% is not a reasonable rate ? what made people think that interest rates could not reach 10% or higher , they were there or thereabouts in 1999 which is only 12 years ago .


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    #294
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Eire 80 wrote: »
    I am now paying 1600 euros per month (5.9%) and about to go into arrears. 1300 of the 1600 is interest. I have no issue paying my debts at a reasonable rate, its the banks who are being greedy so stop turning on each other, strike on!
    What's greedy about it? You signed up to the mortgage, did you not factor in the inevitable interest rate rises? Why is this anyone else's problem except your own?

    Who would you like to pay your mortgage?


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    #295
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Right so, I never took out a mortgage or bought a house. Do I get a free house too in all this?


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    #296
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Eire 80 wrote: »
    I purchased a house in 06 for 300k paying approx 1100 per month with PTSB. I am not on a tracker, my own fault I know.

    I am now paying 1600 euros per month (5.9%) and about to go into arrears. 1300 of the 1600 is interest. I have no issue paying my debts at a reasonable rate, its the banks who are being greedy so stop turning on each other, strike on!
    You took out a maybe 30 year variable rate loan and you didn't factor in the possibility that rates might go to 5.9%. Unbelievable:mad:


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    #297
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Also, if the banks had signed a contract to give you 1000 a month in cash, woudl the people advocating not paying mortgages be happy enough for the bank to decide to stop givign you money and tell you to **** off?

    What if someone borrowed 5000 and refused to pay it back, again, do you just shrug and say "ah well".


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    #298
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    dvpower wrote: »
    You took out a maybe 30 year variable rate loan and you didn't factor in the possibility that rates might go to 5.9%. Unbelievable:mad:

    Especially considering 20-25 years ago the rates we hitting high teens.


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    #299
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    hmmm wrote: »
    The great thing about the Internet is we have a record of all the online conversations that were had during the boom. It easily disproves any argument that people were "just trying to put a roof over their head".

    I looked at this thread at random:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054939120


    That thread makes an interesting read. Shows that at least some people were warning about a bubble back then while some others were hell-bent on buying at all costs. Wonder where they are now?


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    #300
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Godge wrote: »
    That thread makes an interesting read. Shows that at least some people were warning about a bubble back then while some others were hell-bent on buying at all costs. Wonder where they are now?

    Jesus, the level of delusion there is scary, and that was, what, 11 months or so away from the peak?

    urgh,
    Scofflaw


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    #301
    jased10s
    Closed Accounts Posts: 194 ✭✭jased10s


    dvpower wrote: »
    You took out a maybe 30 year variable rate loan and you didn't factor in the possibility that rates might go to 5.9%. Unbelievable:mad:

    Never thought that ptsb might add 1% ABOVE the standard rate to offset their losses on trackers also.

    Banks make mistakes and joe soap loses , But when joe says different people moan.

    They add 1% to cover their losses so how about a 1% reduction in repayments to offset it ?

    seems fair.


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