Aiming for 625 points? (600+25 from maths)

lctake2

It's difficult enough trying to get the points you need and trying to maintain some kind of a life apart from studying, why would you want 625? Just to prove to yourself you could?

EuropeanSon

PictureFrame wrote: »

Do you realise how difficult it is to obtain an A1 an any subject?.

It depends on how capable you are. For some, it's not at all difficult. All people aren't the same.

Bbbbolger

While some people may find it easier than others I would still maintain that it's very difficult to get all A1's. No matter how smart you are it would take sacrifices and a lot of time studying to achieve those grades. Not to mention the fact that luck does play an important part in the Leaving Cert. In some subjects it is very hard to get all the course finished so you will have to hope for some luck in the questions. Other subjects, English being the prime example, are very subjective. Regardless of how talented a writer you may be, the examiner might just not click with your style of writing. I know that examiners aren't supposed to grade like that but after hundreds and hundreds of scripts it would be easy to see how your grade could go down.

If you think you are capable of 625 go for it. Let that be your target but just dont let that become your goal. Your dream college place is the goal. At the end of the day I doubt anyone would be too sad with a place in their number 1 course. Dont let your quest for full marks ruin your final years in school is what I suppose I'm trying to say.

MegGustaa

I'm doing nine higher subjects next year (going into 5th) and yeah, in an ideal world I'd like to get 625 (hell, I'd love to get the equivalent of 925) and I'm probably capable of it, but I need around 570 max in any course I'd be considering so I wouldn't be too put out if I didn't quite get it. Like, I got 11 As in the Junior and was chuffed but only because I knew I could do it and I deserved to get it because I worked really hard consistently from First Year, not that it impacted on my life at all.

It's hard for me to know what I'll be aiming for before I start the Leaving Cert curriculum. Like, I've never even learned Japanese before - how could I say now that I want an A1 in it? At the end of Fifth I'll probably be in a better position to set my targets.

And the maximum is indeed 625 - there's a flat 25 bonus points going for any pass in Honours Maths from next year's Leaving. It's a total farce tbh. I want to do Law and French or European Studies or something along those lines and my points will be bolstered by my strength in Maths? Nonsense.

sdiff

MegGustaa wrote: »

I'm doing nine higher subjects next year (going into 5th) and yeah, in an ideal world I'd like to get 625 (hell, I'd love to get the equivalent of 925) and I'm probably capable of it, but I need around 570 max in any course I'd be considering so I wouldn't be too put out if I didn't quite get it. Like, I got 11 As in the Junior and was chuffed but only because I knew I could do it and I deserved to get it because I worked really hard consistently from First Year, not that it impacted on my life at all.

It's hard for me to know what I'll be aiming for before I start the Leaving Cert curriculum. Like, I've never even learned Japanese before - how could I say now that I want an A1 in it? At the end of Fifth I'll probably be in a better position to set my targets.

And the maximum is indeed 625 - there's a flat 25 bonus points going for any pass in Honours Maths from next year's Leaving. It's a total farce tbh. I want to do Law and French or European Studies or something along those lines and my points will be bolstered by my strength in Maths? Nonsense.

Well maths is arguably a harder subject so it's logical that it should offer more points. It's also more intuitive and less rote learning so it's an indicator that you do more then learn something off by heart and regurgitate it on paper. Just out of curiosity, what school are you in?

MegGustaa

sdiff wrote: »

Well maths is arguably a harder subject so it's logical that it should offer more points. It's also more intuitive and less rote learning so it's an indicator that you do more then learn something off by heart and regurgitate it on paper. Just out of curiosity, what school are you in?

Well I'd rather not say the name but an all-girls school on the Southside of Dublin

I suppose, but giving 25 points for every course in uni is a bit much. Science related ones, particularly those that don't necessarily require HL Maths as a subject requirement, should, but it seems unfair to reward someone going for English or French, and give them an edge over other students (who might be better at English or French than them) on the basis of their Maths results.

sdiff

MegGustaa wrote: »

Well I'd rather not say the name but an all-girls school on the Southside of Dublin

I suppose, but giving 25 points for every course in uni is a bit much. Science related ones, particularly those that don't necessarily require HL Maths as a subject requirement, should, but it seems unfair to reward someone going for English or French, and give them an edge over other students (who might be better at English or French than them) on the basis of their Maths results.

Ah that's understandable. It's just I have a friend who got 11 As and is just going into fifth year and is probably doing 9 subjects so I just thought for a moment...

MegGustaa

sdiff wrote: »

Ah that's understandable. It's just I have a friend who got 11 As and is just going into fifth year and is probably doing 9 subjects so I just thought for a moment...

Well there's not many of us - though I would imagine there's a strong correlation between getting 11 As in the Junior and taking 9 (or more) subjects in the Leaving...oh Project Maths statistics what are you doing to me?

teenagedream

sdiff wrote: »

Well maths is arguably a harder subject so it's logical that it should offer more points. It's also more intuitive and less rote learning so it's an indicator that you do more then learn something off by heart and regurgitate it on paper. Just out of curiosity, what school are you in?

But isn't maths arguably harder subject depending on the person.
Someone who might find maths enjoyable and a breeze might earn extra points over someone who finds it difficult. Whereas someone who works incredibly hard in irish receives no extra points. And therefore no advantage unlike someone doing honours maths.

AdamD

Yes but in general its more difficult..for the majority of people

teenagedream

AdamD wrote: »

Yes but in general its more difficult..for the majority of people

But why does that give anyone who does honours maths a right to extra points?

_LilyRose_

The whole Leaving Cert is a mess tbh.

dambarude

The only reason for the bonus maths points is to attract more people to do honours. It looks bad for the government that so few do.

The logic is that the extra points would negate the impact of the extra work that goes into honours as opposed to pass. It's not particularly fair for those who would never have the ability to do honours, but it's not aimed at them. It's aimed at the people who do have the ability, but choose not to do it for a variety of reasons (interest/time etc.).

The bonus points don't exist to make things fair, but rather to address a supposed skills shortage.

Call Me Lia

teenagedream wrote: »

AdamD wrote: »

Yes but in general its more difficult..for the majority of people

But why does that give anyone who does honours maths a right to extra points?

Because the government want a knowledge economy. They want students to be good at maths and giving those extra points is the incentive that people could use to work harder at it and stay in higher level. It helps with a lot of other subjects like the sciences and businesses and is useful for a lot of different areas in real life. How does the Irish language progress the economy as much as the logical skills maths brings? That's why they decided that people who stick with higher level should get bonus points.

teenagedream

Call Me Lia wrote: »

Because the government want a knowledge economy. They want students to be good at maths and giving those extra points is the incentive that people could use to work harder at it and stay in higher level. It helps with a lot of other subjects like the sciences and businesses and is useful for a lot of different areas in real life. How does the Irish language progress the economy as much as the logical skills maths brings? That's why they decided that people who stick with higher level should get bonus points.

And if I repeat next year and decide to drop maths and I apply for a course but I miss out on a place because someone who did maths and got the extra points got a place instead of me(even if the course is entirely unrelated to maths) how is that fair.

dambarude

teenagedream wrote: »

And if I repeat next year and decide to drop maths and I apply for a course but I miss out on a place because someone who did maths and got the extra points got a place instead of me(even if the course is entirely unrelated to maths) how is that fair.

One could argue that it would be fair because those 25 extra points required more study, and that an A1 (or A2, whatever) in HL Maths requires more time and effort than the same grade in another subject. Almost everybody who does honours will say that an enormous amount of time is spent on in in comparison with other subjects (well I would anyway).

But on the other hand one could say that it's unfairly advantaging those who are naturally good at maths (and those people do exist).

Personally I can't make up my mind whether it's fair or unfair TBH. There isn't much point in going into hypothetical situations like this, because it causes unnecessary rise in blood pressure!

randylonghorn

teenagedream wrote: »

And if I repeat next year and decide to drop maths and I apply for a course but I miss out on a place because someone who did maths and got the extra points got a place instead of me(even if the course is entirely unrelated to maths) how is that fair.

I hate to break it to you, teenagedream, but life isn't always 100% fair.

It should be, in an ideal world, but we don't live in an ideal world.

Over the years, many people who are capable of doing honours maths have chosen not to do it on the basis that it would (for them) take up too much time, and they felt they could get the extra points more easily by investing that time in their other subjects.

The employer's organisations felt that the low level of people doing hons. maths was discouraging people from taking up science and other maths-related courses at third level, and thus damaging competitiveness, and put pressure on the government, who in turn put pressure on the universities. Most of the universities were far from convinced that the bonus points scheme was the best solution, but they weren't given much choice in the end.

So you're stuck with the situation as it is, I'm afraid. Best to invest the energy you might spend worrying about it in dealing with the situation, and doing the very best you can in your LC.

Call Me Lia

teenagedream wrote: »

Call Me Lia wrote: »

Because the government want a knowledge economy. They want students to be good at maths and giving those extra points is the incentive that people could use to work harder at it and stay in higher level. It helps with a lot of other subjects like the sciences and businesses and is useful for a lot of different areas in real life. How does the Irish language progress the economy as much as the logical skills maths brings? That's why they decided that people who stick with higher level should get bonus points.

And if I repeat next year and decide to drop maths and I apply for a course but I miss out on a place because someone who did maths and got the extra points got a place instead of me(even if the course is entirely unrelated to maths) how is that fair.

The points system is a way of assesing intelligence for all the courses in Ireland. As I've already stated maths is important and deserves the 25 extra points in the first place. But to deal with your newest argument: If someone got that 25 points more because of honours maths than the pass maths person, and (if intelligence was indeed measured by leaving cert points), than the person with honours maths is seen as being more intelligent, and therefore is also the more appealing option about who would get on that course. No matter what course it is (even art and music courses have point requirements) it is ultimately about education and smartness, and honours maths gives that.
Anyway that wasn't the OP's question, he was looking for help about how to go about achieving maximum grades in 6 subjects, and he did not receive much of a reply to answer that :P

dambarude

Equating intelligence and leaving cert points is a risky thing to do!

randylonghorn

Let's NOT get into the "what constitutes intelligence?" debate again please!

Call Me Lia wrote: »

Anyway that wasn't the OP's question, he was looking for help about how to go about achieving maximum grades in 6 subjects, and he did not receive much of a reply to answer that :P

Here, I agree with you!

Call Me Lia

dambarude wrote: »

Equating intelligence and leaving cert points is a risky thing to do!

In the eyes of the CAO: points = intelligence. Not MY opinion either just had to clear that up Randy :P

jumpguy

Points = work done. That's all.

randylonghorn

Call Me Lia wrote: »

In the eyes of the CAO: points = intelligence. Not MY opinion either just had to clear that up Randy :P

In all fairness, I don't think even they think that.

Points = a handy and transparent mechanism for allocating college places, that's about the size of it. It has huge deficiencies, but there are problems with almost any alternative as well.

And what I really meant re: the intelligence debate is that is keeps cropping up recently and has been argued to death, mostly linked to the Hons Maths = higher intelligence = deserves higher points argument!

MegGustaa

CAO points are not a measure of intelligence. The whole points system is owned by the universities and third level institutions. It's a system driven by supply and demand. If a university were to cut the number of places it has on offer in half, the points would shoot up. Not because the course is harder, it's just harder to get into. They use points to rank students, but it's a broken system. A recent study (in Ireland) shows that the best indicators of progress in the third level are results in English and Maths in the Leaving - so why not introduce an SAT system for points in combination with a requirement to get certain grades in certain subjects?

Here is a blogpost I wrote about why the points system is broken

teenagedream

randylonghorn wrote: »

I hate to break it to you, teenagedream, but life isn't always 100% fair.

It should be, in an ideal world, but we don't live in an ideal world.

Over the years, many people who are capable of doing honours maths have chosen not to do it on the basis that it would (for them) take up too much time, and they felt they could get the extra points more easily by investing that time in their other subjects.

The employer's organisations felt that the low level of people doing hons. maths was discouraging people from taking up science and other maths-related courses at third level, and thus damaging competitiveness, and put pressure on the government, who in turn put pressure on the universities. Most of the universities were far from convinced that the bonus points scheme was the best solution, but they weren't given much choice in the end.

So you're stuck with the situation as it is, I'm afraid. Best to invest the energy you might spend worrying about it in dealing with the situation, and doing the very best you can in your LC.

Oh no I realise that, I've already done my leaving cert this year and hopefully I won't have to do it again. For me honours maths wasn't my most difficult subject, irish was and I put a lot more effort into irish than I did maths but my grade in maths will be a lot higher. With a lot less effort. If I did maths again next year I don't think I'd deserve getting any extra points because I don't think any subject warrants it. Everyone has there own strengths and while I may be able to integrate and differentiate I can barely string a line of words together in irish unless I have it learned perfectly word for word from the book or notes. I just feel like I'd be cheating somehow getting extra points when I'm entirely useless at our own language yet I can still get away with staying in the higher level class. I'm not trying to start an arguement or anything just expressing my opinion. I know project maths is meant to change this but I know in my sisters class (she's a 5th year) there's an even smaller amount in her class then there was mine but obviously I'm sure that the effects of project maths will take awhile to kick in. I just thought a better solution would be to alter the three compulsory subjects so that they're all at the same level and then maybe award the extra points for students who sit all of english, irish and maths at higher level. But as I said was not trying to start an arguement just expressing my opinion. Maybe in ten years time the situation will be better.

EuropeanSon

That everyone has their own particular strengths, and that some may find Maths easier than Irish and English (as I, for example, did) is not in doubt. What justifies the apportioning of extra points for Maths on the grounds of difficulty (which is obviously not the only grounds) is that vastly less people do have that aptitude for it, as opposed to other subjects. This is evidenced by the remarkably low numbers doing HL Maths, and the very high failure rate. Statistically, it is obvious that it is, objectively, more difficult.

lainey108

teenagedream wrote: »

And if I repeat next year and decide to drop maths and I apply for a course but I miss out on a place because someone who did maths and got the extra points got a place instead of me(even if the course is entirely unrelated to maths) how is that fair.

isnt maths a compulsary subject??

lainey108

sdiff wrote: »

I'm wondering what the best way of going about this is. I'm a very mathematical person and am interested in economics so I have Maths, Applied maths, Economics, Physics, and Chemistry which I will be able to get an A1 in with enough work. I'm doing ordinary level Irish so forget that. Then the only other two are english and german.
I'm not very good at languages so I'd be worried that this'd be a risk. I'm just after finishing 5th year at the institute so I can take up another subject for sixth year if needed. I'm thinking accounting maybe? Would the workload be too big and should I just try get an A1 in english or German?

how many points are needed for the course you wnat to do?
beause im starting 6th year this september, and i already know its going to be very difficult and im only doing 5 higher level subjects,accounting,business,home ec,german, and english.
everybody says accounting is a difficult subject, but its not, it just involves 100% cmmitment, once you know what your doing , your flying because there is a specific lay out to each topic and it really cant change that much. but i wouldnt advice starting it in 6th year because it involves alot of ommitment and effort and if your busy studying for other subjects to obtain all your A1's i cant see you finding time to learn a 2 year course in 1 year.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

OP, If you want to get 625 points, great! Aim high.

HOWEVER, and that is a big however, dont be disappointed if you dont get it. Leaving Cert students have been brainwashed over the years to believe that what you achieve in the exams will determine what your college choice is, and pretty much your life! Points are not the only thing that determine you getting the course you want. Example, if you want to do a specialised science course and you dont get the points, you are better off doing 2-3 years in a general science course in a different uni/IT and you will prob be able to get into 2nd or even 3rd year of your original course. From my experience this is a much better idea than repeating as you get to experience 2 different colleges, get different points of view and meet more people, not to mention that you dont have to repeat the leaving cert! I know lots of people that has done this, ive been to 2 different colleges myself.

getting 600 points is incredibly hard, and involves a LOT of luck. 2 years into one single exam is a terrible idea. Also the points system is a joke, you could put in loads of work, and get 600. then hate your course. The whole system should have been overhauled years ago.

Im ranting! best of luck in the LC!

EuropeanSon

Wynter Thankful Cruiser wrote: »

OP, If you want to get 625 points, great! Aim high.

HOWEVER, and that is a big however, dont be disappointed if you dont get it. Leaving Cert students have been brainwashed over the years to believe that what you achieve in the exams will determine what your college choice is, and pretty much your life! Points are not the only thing that determine you getting the course you want. Example, if you want to do a specialised science course and you dont get the points, you are better off doing 2-3 years in a general science course in a different uni/IT and you will prob be able to get into 2nd or even 3rd year of your original course. From my experience this is a much better idea than repeating as you get to experience 2 different colleges, get different points of view and meet more people, not to mention that you dont have to repeat the leaving cert! I know lots of people that has done this, ive been to 2 different colleges myself.

getting 600 points is incredibly hard, and involves a LOT of luck. 2 years into one single exam is a terrible idea. Also the points system is a joke, you could put in loads of work, and get 600. then hate your course. The whole system should have been overhauled years ago.

Im ranting! best of luck in the LC!

If you do that, it is your fault for picking the wrong course, not the system's. The points systems is one of the fairest 3rd level entry systems in the world. You get what you earn, and that is what you deserve, and favouritism is impossible.