Roscommon Hospital and the lack of people who care

veryangryman

This one has made the news so i was surprised that it wasnt mentioned on boards in any forum.

If we are to judge this purely by boardsies interest, it seems that the political will just is not there to keep the services open.

Me, i think Ballinasloe/Galway is close enough as an alternative, assuming that its own A&E is resourced properly (which i doubt but there you go).

Mods feel free to move this. In the interim, id like to hear general views on it from those outside Roscommon

Kevin Duffy

Anychance you could expand on the story you're seeking views on? Not everyone is as aware of it as you.

mgmt

Close the A&E's in these small hospitals. It's best to amalgamate our resources into hospitals that serve a greater population and area base.

Corsendonk

mgmt wrote: »

Close the A&E's in these small hospitals. It's best to amalgamate our resources into hospitals that serve a greater population and area base.

Agree but every election local TDs promise to keep the local hospital open and we seem to want a hospital in everytown so we always have these campaigns.

veryangryman

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

Anychance you could expand on the story you're seeking views on? Not everyone is as aware of it as you.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0706/roscommon.html

Apologies - its the main headline so assumed most were aware

biko

veryangryman wrote: »

This one has made the news so i was surprised that it wasnt mentioned on boards in any forum.

It has, in Roscommon forum.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055999714

I think you'll find that people from other areas won't give a toss because it's not near them.
And there's not enough Rossers to have a strong voice.

starviewadams

I'm aware of it but I think it makes financial sense to close a+e's in smaller hospital's and use the resouces to staff a 24 hour a+e in a regional hospital.

Terrible that some people actually believed politician's election promises.

mgmt

starviewadams wrote: »

I'm aware of it but I think it makes financial sense to close a+e's in smaller hospital's and use the resouces to staff a 24 hour a+e in a regional hospital.

Terrible that some people actually believed politician's election promises.

It dosn't make just financial sense, people would get better care in larger A&Es with staff who have more experience and quicker response times in getting results back (blood tests etc.).

veryangryman

It does seem like terrible bullsh1t to pay continuously higher taxes for less and less services.

Yes i know how economies work but it still sucks. Welcome to the NFL kid...

Amazotheamazing

We don't have the money to keep it open, hell, even the big ones like Limerick A&E might be closed.

123balltv

no taxes going into hospitals, taxes straight to IMF/EU :mad: feel sick
I have a hospital beside me I rarely ever go no money €120

Opelfruit

mgmt wrote: »

Close the A&E's in these small hospitals. It's best to amalgamate our resources into hospitals that serve a greater population and area base.

Roscommon Hospital covers a huge geographical area base. Try getting from Glenamaddy to Ballinasloe in an emergency. Ballinasloe is only connected to north Galway by regional roads, roads among the worst in the country. People from north Roscommon would have to pass Roscommon hospital to get to Ballinasloe!

This does not effect me directly, however, you would expect that the one service every hospital would provide is A&E. People will die!

Fozzie Bear

veryangryman wrote: »

Me, i think Ballinasloe/Galway is close enough as an alternative, assuming that its own A&E is resourced properly (which i doubt but there you go).

Nope I disagree on that. Its approx 1 hour and 20 minutes to drive from central Co. Roscommon (where I'm from originally) to Galway city, (an hour to B'sloe, Roscommon town is approx a 30 minute drive).

Then depending on the time of day you hit Galway at you could easily spend another hour getting to the far side of the city through traffic (as Galway has no bloody bypass, don't get me started on that!) to get to get the A&E. That's the same A&E where there are regularly 10-12 hour waiting times by the way (personal experience of that) and its already beyond bursting point. Where are the extra sick people going to go Enda & Co? On trolleys in the car park??

You are looking at the same approx travel times to Castlebar or Sligo hospitals. If you look at a map of Connaught there is a huge big blank space in the middle with no hospital within an hours drive. All of them are along the coastal areas with nothing even near being centrally located. Thats a long drive with someone sitting in the car beside you who is screaming in pain, bleeding heavily or in serious medical difficulties. You can forget about a bloody ambulance too as the waiting times for them can be up to 40 minutes just to collect you and then you have to head off for Galway!

Its a joke and the simple fact is people will die or end up disabled because of this.

People from north Roscommon would go to Sligo?

Amazotheamazing

Opelfruit wrote: »

Roscommon Hospital covers a huge geographical area base.

But not necessarily a huge population base. If it's a choice between keeping the one in Galway city open or the one in Roscommon, for example, you have to go with the one that serves the most people, not the biggest area.

Duggy747

RTE NEWS wrote:

The Taoiseach said he found the criticism "pathetic"

Fùck you, Kenny, fùck you.

See how pathetic is when you live in an area where getting to a hospital like Galway / Sligo / Mayo is well over an hour's drive.

Galway being the closest but Tuam is a nightmare for anybody to get through, including ambulances.

mickydoomsux

Unfortunately, the resources aren't there to run these small A&Es because a lot of money is wasted in them patching up drunks and drug addicts. You'll notice that the hours that are being cut back in most of them are during the night, when this nonsense usually happens.

The few times i've had to be in one of these hellholes the drunk/high people have outnumbered the people who were in for legitimate things.

One time was when my grandmother was dying. It was great fun to have two crowds of scummers hurling abuse at each other whilst being pulled apart by security because they'd all been brought to the same A&E after they'd kicked the **** out of each other during their drinking binge. Refuse treatment to these types and you could probably run a much more efficient and fair health system and possibly keep these services up and running.

stovelid

Opelfruit wrote: »

Try getting from Glenamaddy to Ballinasloe

Thought the transport access was good there consider it had four roads heading into it?

Opelfruit

stovelid wrote: »

Thought the transport access was good there consider it had four roads heading into it?

HA!

Four dusty byways, I'm afraid!

mikom

mgmt wrote: »

Close the A&E's in these small hospitals. It's best to amalgamate our resources into hospitals that serve a greater population and area base.

*Looks into crystal ball*
*Rubs first two fingers either side of temples*

Let me guess............... location Dublin.

stovelid

mikom wrote: »

*Looks into crystal ball*
*Rubs first two fingers either side of temples*

Let me guess............... location Dublin.

Dublin is stuffed with culchies so they would only need a mullah hospital if they got sick on Saturday or Sunday.

mikom

stovelid wrote: »

so they would only need a mullah hospital if they got sick on Saturday or Sunday.

Get a lot of Muslim men in Dublin?

stovelid

mikom wrote: »

Get a lot of Muslim men in Dublin?

Only when it's Sunni.

mikom

stovelid wrote: »

Only when it's Sunni.

shiite

phill106

mikom wrote: »

Get a lot of Muslim men in Dublin?

stovelid wrote: »

Only when it's Sunni.

or shi'ite....

stovelid

Mikom got in there first, Phil.

nacho libre

mgmt wrote: »

It dosn't make just financial sense, people would get better care in larger A&Es with staff who have more experience and quicker response times in getting results back (blood tests etc.).

what if you die before you get there, though? is your argument that with enhanced ambulances being deployed that people will be less likely to die in transit than they were in the past?

mgmt

nacho libre wrote: »

what if you die before you get there, though? is your argument that with enhanced ambulances being deployed that people will be less likely to die in transit than they were in the past?

Did I mention ambulances??

stovelid

Opelfruit wrote: »

HA!

Four dusty byways, I'm afraid!

Er, you may well find that the dusty byways in question in fact lead to "The Heart" and not to Glenamaddy though I readily accept that the former may well be a metaphor for same.

Chuck Stone

What about a dedicated helicopter-ambulance?

Maybe based at knock?

No?

nacho libre

mgmt wrote: »

Did I mention ambulances??

No. Which is why I asked that question. I was wondering why you didn't.

angelfire9

http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Main+St%2FN61&daddr=Main+St,+Ballinasloe,+Co.+Galway,+Ireland+to:B%C3%B3thar+na+dTreabh%2FN6+to:Ballinrobe+Rd%2FN84+to:Bundoran+Rd%2FN4+to:N61&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=53.673934,-8.421021&spn=1.636766,7.03125&sll=53.537043,-8.146362&sspn=1.642079,4.938354&geocode=FUJWMgMdEgeD_w%3BFezCLQMdxZCC_ykjqDm90WlcSDFgazmGno3Pxw%3BFVYfLQMdEH92_w%3BFbKDNQMdTjZy_w%3BFVovPAMdtKV-_w%3BFaClLwMdIAqG_w&mra=mi&mrsp=5&sz=8&t=h&z=8

Hope this link works!
So the hospital closes in Roscommon, there is Sligo, Castlebar, Galway, Ballinasloe and Athlone all within reasonable distance of most of Roscommon county
(depending of course on what part of roscommon you live in)

Now
For comparison purposes say you live at point A on this map:
http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=52.603048,-9.84375&daddr=High+Rd%2FN7&hl=en&sll=52.736292,-7.904663&sspn=1.67297,4.938354&geocode=FaioIgMd2stp_w%3BFRSxIwMdZkt8_w&mra=mr&t=h&z=8
It will (according to AA roadwatch) take you 2 hours and 32 minutes to get to A&E in Limerick

If you live on Point A in this map http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Miltown+Malbay,+Ireland&daddr=Galway,+Ireland+to:52.85905,-9.40478+to:Ennis+Rd%2FN7&hl=en&sll=52.927119,-8.731384&sspn=0.832818,2.469177&geocode=FQl5JgMdZpJw_ylVEj2P0gJbSDGgnjGXqccACg%3BFcXkLAMdfOF1_yn_Wy1alZNbSDGBUkkKRBsrAw%3BFaqQJgMdlH5w_ynBRvbr3AJbSDGRNUP8pscAEw%3BFd60IwMdNsx7_w&mra=dpe&mrsp=2&sz=9&via=2&t=h&z=9 it will take you an hour and a half to get to Galway if you are going by private car by ambulance you go to Limerick which is 105km on crappy roads which AA ireland optimistically predict will take you 1 hour, 40 minutes

Rawhead

Chuck Stone wrote: »

What about a dedicated helicopter-ambulance?

Maybe based at knock?

No?

I've been thinking the exact same thing. Why is it not even being mentioned as it would get people to a major trauma centre in the golden hour and still cost a fraction of a single A+E. It could cover all of Connaught.

Celly Smunt

whats the big deal? it's only roscommon at the end of the day

mikom

Rawhead wrote: »

it would get people to a major trauma centre in the golden hour

*patient dies in transit*

"Ah, they just didn't suit ya"

waxon-waxoff

This is just the start, over the next few months many more small hospitals are going to lose services which will be concentrated in bigger hospitals. It costs too much to keep a full range of services where theres a small population and not enough patients. Fine Gael are getting abuse now and its their own fault, they didnt need to promise anything, they would have won the election by a landslide anyway.

Its also worth mentioning that many people in Roscommon didnt trust the hospital and asked their doctors to send them to Galway or Castlebar instead for treatment.

steve9859

Birmingham has 4 accident and emergency units (according to Newstalk today), and has the same population as Ireland

We just cannot have A&Es everywhere. We do not have the resources and unfortunately that is an undeniable fact.

I heard people on the radio today saying that it is their right to live in rural areas and be provided effective services. I'm sorry, but that is not a right! If you are concerned you should move to an urban area (not that some urban hospitals are great right now either!!). There is no other way. The problem with Ireland with regard to services is the geographical area over which the small population is spread.

The closure of many rural services is inevitable. FG messed up by making stupid promises in an election they were going to win anyway.

Kevin Duffy

steve9859 wrote: »

Birmingham has 4 accident and emergency units (according to Newstalk today), and has the same population as Ireland

We just cannot have A&Es everywhere. We do not have the resources and unfortunately that is an undeniable fact.

I heard people on the radio today saying that it is their right to live in rural areas and be provided effective services. I'm sorry, but that is not a right! If you are concerned you should move to an urban area (not that some urban hospitals are great right now either!!). There is no other way. The problem with Ireland with regard to services is the geographical area over which the small population is spread.

The closure of many rural services is inevitable. FG messed up by making stupid promises in an election they were going to win anyway.

In a much smaller area than Ireland, so not a valid comparison in any way. Comparison with parts of Scotland, or the English Lake District would be more valid.

People do of course have a right to live in a rural area and be provided for fairly. They pay the same taxes, so they have a right to the same services. As it is, people in rural areas don't get the same access to public transport, just to pick one benefit that they pay towards. To suggest that everyone should just up and move to the city is, frankly, ridiculous.

steve9859

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

In a much smaller area than Ireland, so not a valid comparison in any way. Comparison with parts of Scotland, or the English Lake District would be more valid.

People do of course have a right to live in a rural area and be provided for fairly. They pay the same taxes, so they have a right to the same services. As it is, people in rural areas don't get the same access to public transport, just to pick one benefit that they pay towards. To suggest that everyone should just up and move to the city is, frankly, ridiculous.

I was making the point that the population in Ireland is too spread to provide services "at every crossroads" (as one member of the Dail said today). We cant afford it and that is a fact.

I am not suggesting that everyone should move to the city (you are putting words in my mouth there), but if you are at risk of needing A&E or other specialist hospital services, and are particularly concerned, then maybe you should.

I disagree with you as to the right of people to live in the sticks and get the same services, since 'per head' the cost is astronomical. It is the price that is paid for the priviledge of living in a more pleasant rural environment

Kevin Duffy

steve9859 wrote: »

I am not suggesting that everyone should move to the city (you are putting words in my mouth there), but if you are at risk of needing A&E or other specialist hospital services, and are particularly concerned, then maybe you should.

You sure about that?

steve9859 wrote: »

I heard people on the radio today saying that it is their right to live in rural areas and be provided effective services. I'm sorry, but that is not a right! If you are concerned you should move to an urban area

And A&E is not a specialist service, it's primary healthcare, a basic human right.

ntlbell

maybe if the PS wage bill was largely reduced they could keep it.

i doubt many ps workers be offering to give up much for their "colleagues"

steve9859

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

You sure about that?

yes. Im saying if you are high risk then maybe you should. That isnt 'everyone'!

WaltKowalski

Where is the A+E in Athlone that's been mentioned a few times on this thread?

WaltKowalski

And it's thought that the Ballinasloe A+E unit won't be long for closing after Roscommon.

Kevin Duffy

steve9859 wrote: »

yes. Im saying if you are high risk then maybe you should. That isnt 'everyone'!

Needing an A&E is not high risk. It's for, eh, accidents and emergencies.

efb

Is the cardiac arrest mortality rate higher in Ros Gen?

Dont the specialised EMT units have a better success rate?

That reminds me about people in offaly who whinge about not having a maternity ward? Why? is it not better to to have centralised centres of excellence than a hospital with a bit of everything in every county????

Why does being a county entitle you to have a hospital?

mickydoomsux

ntlbell wrote: »

maybe if the PS wage bill was largely reduced they could keep it.

i doubt many ps workers be offering to give up much for their "colleagues"

So cut some workers and we'll have the money saved to give to the workers we just fired to so they can run the A&E department we had to close because we didn't have the money or staff to run it?

steve9859

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

Needing an A&E is not high risk. It's for, eh, accidents and emergencies.

And, eh, some people are more likely to need emergency services than others. We just can't justify an A&E to cater for every rural dweller who might have a heart attack or stroke

As an earlier poster said, maybe more air ambulances is the answer

drkpower

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

And A&E is not a specialist service, it's primary healthcare, a basic human right.

A&E does not exist in a vacumn however. Serious trauma cases cannot be properly managed without orthopaedics/trauma surgery/vascular surgery. Cardiac emergencies cannot be managed without cardiac specialists. And so on.

Even if you one accepts that A&E is not a specialist service (which is incorrect) the latter certainly are.

Kevin Duffy

drkpower wrote: »

A&E does not exist in a vacumn however. Serious trauma cases cannot be properly managed without orthopaedics/trauma surgery/vascular surgery. Cardiac emergencies cannot be managed without cardiac specialists. And so on.

Even if you one accepts that A&E is not a specialist service (which is incorrect) the latter certainly are.

Yeh, see, it isn't a specialist service and just saying it is doesn't make it true. Primary health care is a basic human right according to the UDHR, of which Ireland is a signatory. A&E is primary health care - walk-in, emergency care, often life-saving.

Trauma cases are frequently managed initially by local A&E services, then transferred for specialist care - off the top of my head, only Dublin and Cork would offer neurology and spinal care (see what I did there??) - so you break your back in Sligo or Galway, get local care to support you, then transfer to Dublin for specialist services, so the existence of A&e is not dependent on the location of higher level care. This is obviously a paraphrase, but you get the point.

drkpower

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

Yeh, see, it isn't a specialist service and just saying it is doesn't make it true. Primary health care is a basic human right according to the UDHR, of which Ireland is a signatory. A&E is primary health care - walk-in, emergency care, often life-saving..

Ask any emergency medicine physician; it certainly is a specialist service. And primary health care has a multitude of definitions deoending on context; but it usual refers to services provided predominantly by GPs, as well as by practice nurses, primary/community health care nurses, community pharmacists etc.

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

Trauma cases are frequently managed initially by local A&E services, then transferred for specialist care - off the top of my head, only Dublin and Cork would offer neurology and spinal care (see what I did there??) - so you break your back in Sligo or Galway, get local care to support you, then transfer to Dublin for specialist services, so the existence of A&e is not dependent on the location of higher level care. This is obviously a paraphrase, but you get the point.

Transferring multiple trauma cases prior to vascular/trauma/orthopaedic surgery involvement is very often not possible. An A&E service without access to basic cardiac procedures (such as stenting) is unsafe.

An A&E service without appropriate support is not really worthy of the name.