Roscommon Hospital and the lack of people who care

mdebets

MrsD007 wrote: »

There appears to be an error in the last time mentioned in the article, the crew arrived at 9:50 and not 9:40 as mentioned.

I think the introduction of postal codes could be a solution, in addition to the ambulance crews having SAT NAVS.

The article is a bad example, as here the address got transmitted incorrectly to the ambulance. it would also have been good if the people who called the ambulance would have stand outside the house. This way they could have waved down the wrong ambulance passing by.

I don't think Postal Codes are a solution, at least not for rural areas. How big would one postal code be, just cover one one-off house or several? In the later case, it could still be a problem finding the specific house. Then you have the problem of people not knowing their post code or people deliberately using wrong postal codes, because they don't want to have the same postal code as the council estate next door.
What you need is a map database with street names and house numbers/names for cities and a database with local knowledge for rural houses. If you can transfer them to a GPS (from a central database), that would be a good point.

mgmt

mdebets wrote: »

I don't think Postal Codes are a solution, at least not for rural areas. How big would one postal code be, just cover one one-off house or several? In the later case, it could still be a problem finding the specific house. Then you have the problem of people not knowing their post code or people deliberately using wrong postal codes, because they don't want to have the same postal code as the council estate next door.
What you need is a map database with street names and house numbers/names for cities and a database with local knowledge for rural houses. If you can transfer them to a GPS (from a central database), that would be a good point.

Loc8 is the solution.

http://www.myloc8ion.com/

Lady Chatterton

mdebets wrote: »

The article is a bad example, as here the address got transmitted incorrectly to the ambulance. it would also have been good if the people who called the ambulance would have stand outside the house. This way they could have waved down the wrong ambulance passing by

Are you serious? I found myself in this situation once and I was too busy working on the patient to be waving at ambulances. :rolleyes:

Maybe the family did have someone outside but there was little point really because the ambulance was at the other side of the village.

rossie1977

Bambi wrote: »

What kind of population base does it cover? Therein lies the catch.

well the population of the county is about 65,000, a large part of the leitrim population live on the roscommon border too, castlerea where i am originally from is second largest town in the county with a catchment area of about 10,000 (including one of the largest prisons in the country) when you include all the villages within 5-8 miles, now a journey to galway hospital from castlerea on a dry day without traffic will take you about 90mins, now try that journey at night down the pitchblack narrow windy unmarked roads between castlerea and dunmore, add in snow/ice/rain/traffic jams and now you are looking at 2hr+

now the road between roscommon and castlerea is 10 times better than the road between castlerea and tuam, you can do that journey in 20-30mins day or night

However, if you live out in the arse end of nowhere then that's one of the drawbacks that you have to expect.

this was something that was always here, remember you are removing something that was there already and has been there for decades

steve9859

steve9859 wrote:

but if you are at risk of needing A&E or other specialist hospital services, and are particularly concerned, then maybe you should.

Do you even understand the meaning of 'accident & emergency'? Everyone on the planet is at risk of heart attacks, strokes and myriad other medical emergencies. Everyone is also at risk of dangerous/potentially lethal accidents. It doesn't matter where you live. I live in Dublin city centre and these people in the Roscommon area do have the right to a decent standard of healthcare like I have access to. We all pay taxes and we expect the state to provide public services to us in return for this payment. If the state can't afford it, maybe we should default on loans instead of putting lives at risk.

Universal Declaration of Human Rights wrote:

Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of oneself and one's family, including food, clothing, housing, and medical care.

Dyr

Disleksic wrote: »

No, they are too busy in Ballymun working on the huge number of Chess Grandmasters who live there.

That's silly, Ballymun wouldn't have the population to support a hospital, I'm sure that both Beaumont and the Mater are quite sufficient for our brain related needs.

Guy:Incognito

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Its quite simple really, they don't give a sh!te about the ordinary man.
People will die over this and it will be blood on FGs and Labours hands.
Same sh!te that we had with FF. When will we fcuking learn that that FF and FG are the exact bloody same? Labour are a right shower too.
You know what the worst thing is? Next time round we will probably decide that voting FF in to fix FGs mess is a good idea.

As stated above , forget banks and other crap. The country is spending much more on running things than is taken in. Sf can oppose all they like , but unless they have 15-20b in cash each year they'd like to donate to the state, where does the money come from.

mdebets

MrsD007 wrote: »

Are you serious? I found myself in this situation once and I was too busy working on the patient to be waving at ambulances. :rolleyes:

Maybe the family did have someone outside but there was little point really because the ambulance was at the other side of the village.

I'm very serious. If you call an ambulance, you should then wait outside the house until it arrives. If you are too busy (wouldn't know too many people in Ireland, who are actually capable of first aid), you should get a neighbour to wait. Especially in Ireland, where you have streets without signs, house numbers mixed-up over the whole street length, houses without numbers, this can be important to find the house.

In the article, it would have helped a big deal, as the second ambulance was passing by the house. He could have flagged this one down and they could have a look, or they could have told the other ambulance where exactly to go.

steve9859

coconutlulz wrote: »

steve9859 wrote:

but if you are at risk of needing A&E or other specialist hospital services, and are particularly concerned, then maybe you should.

Do you even understand the meaning of 'accident & emergency'? Everyone on the planet is at risk of heart attacks, strokes and myriad other medical emergencies. Everyone is also at risk of dangerous/potentially lethal accidents. It doesn't matter where you live. I live in Dublin city centre and these people in the Roscommon area do have the right to a decent standard of healthcare like I have access to. We all pay taxes and we expect the state to provide public services to us in return for this payment. If the state can't afford it, maybe we should default on loans instead of putting lives at risk.

Universal Declaration of Human Rights wrote:

Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of oneself and one's family, including food, clothing, housing, and medical care.

I don't know why people don't get this. It is nothing to do with loans or bankers. Even if we did not have debt, we spend more than we take in. If we defaulted on our debt, we would have to make an immediate adjustment resulting in many more closures.

In the absence of a massive cut in PS pay, services have to be cut. If its not a hospital, it will be a school. And the services that cost the most per head, are the least cost effective to provide, and for which there are alternatives, should be cut first. By your reckoning if you lived on a remote mountaintop you should have the same access to care as if you lived in the city. Sorry, but it doesn't work like that in the real world.

Lady Chatterton

mdebets wrote: »

I'm very serious. If you call an ambulance, you should then wait outside the house until it arrives. If you are too busy (wouldn't know too many people in Ireland, who are actually capable of first aid), you should get a neighbour to wait. Especially in Ireland, where you have streets without signs, house numbers mixed-up over the whole street length, houses without numbers, this can be important to find the house.

In the article, it would have helped a big deal, as the second ambulance was passing by the house. He could have flagged this one down and they could have a look, or they could have told the other ambulance where exactly to go.

Your theory might work well in Dublin or in large urban areas where neighbours are closeby but if you live in a rural area your closest neighbour might be a good distance away or may not be contactable particularly at night.

If you are at home and your partner or a loved one has a heart attack or accident, your priority will be offering first aid and not outside waving down ambulances.

theoneeyedman

GerM wrote: »

The statistics support his comment. You're roughly 4 times more likely to die attending Roscommon than Galway in a cardiac emergency. They simply do not have the resources to provide adequate medical care. Attending Galway will save more lives than those that will be lost by the extra distance. The additional resources provided to the ambulance service will hopefully see them better equipped to get an individual to a properly facilitated A&E in time. Also, if you were in Frenchpark or Tulsk and needed an A&E urgently, you would go to Castlebar or Sligo and, whilst you obviously wouldn't be there as quickly as you would be to Roscommon, you would be there definitely in under an hour.

Statistics statistics......

this one is a classic! I heard a consultant explain the main reasons for this is that 1/ the poplation of Galway city in particulat is younger than that of co Roscommon and hence many cardiac patients are relatively younger and fitter on average than the patients presenting to Roscommon and 2/ there is a larger proportion of patients in the immediate city catchment area than around roscommon town: as it is many people have long travel times to Roscommon

BrianBoru00

Population of Roscommon County is 60 000.
South & South west of the county would be closer to Ballinasloe 12-15000.
North of the County is closer to Sligo 8-10 000.
Ballaghadereen is probably closer to Castlebar. So that brings the catchment within the county to 35 000.
Then there is East galway - towns like Glinsk / Glenamaddy / Ballygar. As well as west Longford briging it back up by 10 000.
So realistically about 40 000 in the catchment area.

What is the catchment area of Galway - considering it has 2 A&Es.

If the survival rates for Galway are four times greater than Roscommon then
1) Why was there not an enquiry before now as the the obvious incompatencies in Roscommon Hospital
2) Why were doctors not sacked because of it?

......or is it just that O'Reilly is making up "facts" to suit his argument?

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

GerM wrote: »

I heard some quotes from him this morning on the radio in relation to being spat at and being shoved by people but the bullet is news to me. In all fairness, it took some balls to stand up for what he felt was the right thing to do. Feighan has essentially guaranteed that he will lose his seat in the next election by doing what he feels is right. Refreshing to see someone stand up and do what they feel is best despite the negative effect it will have on them personally. The FG deputy who voted to retain the facilities is looking after his own interests. The numbers and facts are there. Naughton is representative of such a large element of Irish politics. A man who entered politics and won a seat due to a family legacy following his father's death and has bowed to parochial politics to secure his future seat. His decision to go against the government and expected expulsion/martyrdom will guarantee his re-election by his constituents.

Feighan was all in favour of keeping the A&E open a few weeks ago.

PennyLane88

Theoretically it makes sense to have only the big a&e open, but in all fairness the poor infrastructure we have in Ireland means that bringing a patient to Galway will put lives at risk, i have travelled the route, road is very dangerous (bad bends, traffic at claregalway, and in town), especially when an ambulance is travelling at high speed.

mikemac

Where was this Roscommon TD when Nenagh and Ennis got downgraded?
I don't remember him in any meeting over Portlaoise. He has been a TD since 2007.

But suddenly he's the champion of a threatened hospital, just the one that affects his voters

Killer Pigeon

All hospitals should be privatised and the HSE abolished - then they won't need to worry about government cuts.

GerM

mikemac wrote: »

Where was this Roscommon TD when Nenagh and Ennis got downgraded?
I don't remember him in any meeting over Portlaoise. He has been a TD since 2007.

But suddenly he's the champion of a threatened hospital, just the one that affects his voters

You have them backwards. Naughten is campaigning to retain services. He became a TD in 1997 following the death of his father. Feighan became a TD in 2007.

You're right though. It's only when a deputy's home constituency is affected that they speak up. If the retention of their seat is at risk all of a sudden the issue becomes one of grave importance. Its a similar pattern all over the country and until we elect our TDs on a national basis and not a local one it will be the same.

tonsiltickler

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

All hospitals should be privatised and the HSE abolished - then they won't need to worry about government cuts.

Would not work, do you really want a system like america where only those who can afford insurance will be treated?

mgmt

tonsiltickler wrote: »

Would not work, do you really want a system like america where only those who can afford insurance will be treated?

We have basically the same system here, you'd be an idiot to not have insurance in Ireland and have to wait 12months for tests on the public system.

Vicxas

They closed the hospital because it was unsafe i believe, the majority of hospitals would of been closed just the same, its because Enda said it wouldnt close is why theres uproar... but if the research finds its unsafe, logic dictates it has to be closed...

Opelfruit

mikemac wrote: »

Where was this Roscommon TD when Nenagh and Ennis got downgraded?
I don't remember him in any meeting over Portlaoise. He has been a TD since 2007.

But suddenly he's the champion of a threatened hospital, just the one that affects his voters

I'm sure the TDs of Clare and Tipperary North would have told him to sling his hook if he tried to get involved there. Those issues do not effect his constituents, the closure of Roscommon A&E does.

The closure of Roscommon A&E does effect the people of NE Galway though, yet the TDs there are still silent.

Killer Pigeon

tonsiltickler wrote: »

Would not work, do you really want a system like america where only those who can afford insurance will be treated?

The American system is very similar to our own - and like our own it is fecked up. I made a thread on this topic already, I think that hospitals need to be privatised and the health service in general. Competition will drive down the cost of insurance in most cases. If people can't afford the insurance, then the government can provide grants to assist those who genuinely can't afford it or for people who have long term terminal illnesses.

We live in a county where the state is riddled with debt - do you honestly trust the state not to make a balls of vital services, especially in the mess it is in. If the heath service was fully private you would not see these health services being cut because they are not under the government's blanket of bureaucracy and thus will not close down if the government can't afford to maintain them. Have you seen many private clinics around the country being closed down?

Dyr

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

We live in a county where the state is riddled with debt

debt that was generated by the private sector, the same people you want to run our health service. Good luck with that

Killer Pigeon

Vicxas wrote: »

They closed the hospital because it was unsafe i believe, the majority of hospitals would of been closed just the same, its because Enda said it wouldnt close is why theres uproar... but if the research finds its unsafe, logic dictates it has to be closed...

How do you know that this research was genuine? It could have been rigged and used as a ploy to soften public opinion if they were closed. The reality is, the government can't afford to fund the services and are thus using any excuse they can find to close them. If there were any genuine "health & safety" concerns then closing the facilities down just shows that they don't have the money to fix the problem. And are the results and recommendations of this "research" publicly available?

Killer Pigeon

Bambi wrote: »

debt that was generated by the private sector, the same people you want to run our health service. Good luck with that

Oh really? And the state is in no way to blame -- at all? Dear, dear...
The root cause of our economic woes was the government's intervention in the economy, in some way or another.

Opelfruit

Vicxas wrote: »

They closed the hospital because it was unsafe i believe, the majority of hospitals would of been closed just the same, its because Enda said it wouldnt close is why theres uproar... but if the research finds its unsafe, logic dictates it has to be closed...

Did they? This is getting ridiculous.

http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/hiqa-inspectors-never-visited-roscommon-hospital-hse-admits-512492.html

HIQA inspectors never visited Roscommon hospital, HSE admits

The HSE has confirmed that HIQA inspectors have never visited Roscommon County Hospital, which was downgraded this week.

The Government has maintained that the decision to close the Accident and Emergency Department at Roscommon was made because HIQA had deemed it to be unsafe.

HIQA has confirmed it never conducted a stand-alone report on Roscommon, but made its findings from the appendix on the report into Mallow Hospital.

Meanwhile, the figures on the mortality rate at Roscommon are also being disputed.

Health Minister Dr James Reilly quoted a mortality rate of 21% to back up HIQA's assertion that the hospital was unsafe.

However, Dr Pat McHugh, who established the cardiac care unit at Roscommon in the 1970s, claims that the figure is not correct.

"There's scaremongering going on out there that we have been unsafe," said Dr McHugh.

"I've been deeply hurt by the Minister's revelations that there was a 21% mortality in cardiac patients in Roscommon County Hospital - the actual figure is 5%. It's as good as anywhere else."

handlemaster

I did hear on the radio this morning that its not a matter of cost that they are closing the accident and emergency ??? I think it was government spokes person. And it been proven the that 'first hour is vitally important' after a stoke, heart attack, major injury. Whats the point in closing it then. They are on about going to sligo, mayo , galway and mullingar but the roads are terrible.

veryangryman

veryangryman wrote: »

This one has made the news so i was surprised that it wasnt mentioned on boards in any forum.

If we are to judge this purely by boardsies interest, it seems that the political will just is not there to keep the services open.

Me, i think Ballinasloe/Galway is close enough as an alternative, assuming that its own A&E is resourced properly (which i doubt but there you go).

Mods feel free to move this. In the interim, id like to hear general views on it from those outside Roscommon

How about they reduce wages to keep the hospitals open

end the Croke park agreement crap that shysters Cowen and Lenihan propagated

wow sierra

Government policies for Generations seem to be based on the always quoted logic of locating services near big centres of population. Does it ever occur to them that if they continue to downgrade services in areas of lower population you force people to leave them.FFS. I am sick and tired of the East coast bias of all development policies.

The logic of the Health policy seems to be that the centres of excellence are safer and better for the patients. I am from Roscommon and from my experience we are no less intelligent or well informed than average - why on earth would there be almost universal opposition to a plan that is for our benifit?????

As someone already said it takes ages to get to Galway when you take traffic into account and the hospitals there are already under pressure. The Government have lied/been mistaken:rolleyes: about the figures for cardiac deaths (they have admitted this on record) and also the report on the hospital being dangerous (never did an actual report on Roscommon)

I know Health policy is incredibly complex and difficult but I would at least expect some transparency. I was terrified by the prospect of Reilly as minister for Health - haven't seen evidence to change my opinion. And as for Fine Gael keeping promises/making promises they have no intention of keeping.

Saila

wow sierra wrote: »

Government policies for Generations seem to be based on the always quoted logic of locating services near big centres of population. Does it ever occur to them that if they continue to downgrade services in areas of lower population you force people to leave them.FFS. I am sick and tired of the East coast bias of all development policies.

The logic of the Health policy seems to be that the centres of excellence are safer and better for the patients. I am from Roscommon and from my experience we are no less intelligent or well informed than average - why on earth would there be almost universal opposition to a plan that is for our benifit?????

As someone already said it takes ages to get to Galway when you take traffic into account and the hospitals there are already under pressure. The Government have lied/been mistaken:rolleyes: about the figures for cardiac deaths (they have admitted this on record) and also the report on the hospital being dangerous (never did an actual report on Roscommon)

I know Health policy is incredibly complex and difficult but I would at least expect some transparency. I was terrified by the prospect of Reilly as minister for Health - haven't seen evidence to change my opinion. And as for Fine Gael keeping promises/making promises they have no intention of keeping.

they are saying that doctors need a certain amount of patients to maintain their skills to a high enough level to be acceptable, and that the hospital falls below this.

If standards are not maintained it means the overall quality of service drops and more die in the long run than those that do by having to go further. see primetime on rte player to hear the minister for health explaining it

PennyLane88

Heard HIQA never even advised about the closure or visited Roscommon hospital, wtf?? If this is true then Fine Gael have just shown that they are as crude as the last government.

Paddy De Plasterer

I see that some patient files turned up in a bin at Roscommon hospital, and were "accidentally" found by hospital action committee. I smell a rat. And have RTE and and Kieran Mullooly nothing better to do that stay full time in Roscommon.

veryangryman

Paddy De Plasterer wrote: »

I see that some patient files turned up in a bin at Roscommon hospital, and were "accidentally" found by hospital action committee. I smell a rat. And have RTE and and Kieran Mullooly nothing better to do that stay full time in Roscommon.

This is a hospital, not a flavour of the month story.

People still care regardless of the time thats passed since it was hot news

Paddy De Plasterer

Strange how that lady out walking her dog started rummaging in a bin !

The spokesman for RHAC would need to visit a dentist, not a hospital


http://www.israellycool.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/toothless-protest.jpg

donaghs

mgmt wrote: »

Close the A&E's in these small hospitals. It's best to amalgamate our resources into hospitals that serve a greater population and area base.

What's the point of Roscommon hospital if it has no A&E? Surely emergency services have to be nearby, any other function should be first in line for relocation or closure.