Do you stretch before you get on the bike?

flywheel

Was reading through some recent posts on here with people suggesting static stretching before exercise...

Do you go through stretches before you get on your bike?

Never - but I'm not into racing, just leisure cycling/commuting/touring.

CianRyan

Guilty... I never stretch.

The way I see it is, you're not meant to stretch cold, so should I cycle 2/3k then get off and stretch?

doozerie

I think that you should start with defining what you mean by "stretch". My definition of stretching is pushing a muscle to it's maximum range of movement in order to encourage it to grow longer. I stretch after training but not before as I need to be warm to minimise risk of injury. However, some peoples' definition of "stretch' is far broader than mine and includes what I would consider warming up by moving your muscles and joints to an extent very comfortably within their range, which I usually do go through briefly and gently before a ride.

brayblue24

I do but Im only a recent convert on the advice of a physio!!

Cookie_Monster

lol, no

never stretch before starting any activity, ever

sometimes stretch when I finish.

WakeyTyke

I can't really do the poll -yes, I do stretch (25 minutes every morning) but not before I cycle .

triggermortis

don't stretch before a ride, and unless you count collapsing in a heap on the floor, don't really do so at the end either

Khannie

I don't think stretching before you cycle is as beneficial as stretching after. I definitely wouldn't be static stretching before a cycle. If anything I'd do something dynamic.

CardBordWindow

Never stretch. Barely have time for breakfast, never mind stretching!
(commuter not racer)

Joeyde

+1 on the dynamic stretching.

Do it before all activities, not sure static stretches are much good without a warm up as mentioned. Surely everyone warms up on their turbo before heading out? :P

aquanaut

Afterwards for about 5 minutes - before - never, just a steady few kilometers

Beasty

The muscles need to be warmed up before stretching to minimise risk of injury. If I'm racing, and in particular doing a TT, I'll basically do a warm-up (perhaps 10-15 minutes), then stretch, and ideally do a bit more of a warm-up before the event

Post event I really should, but rarely do, stretch

Home:Ballyhoura

Beasty wrote: »

The muscles need to be warmed up before stretching to minimise risk of injury. If I'm racing, and in particular doing a TT, I'll basically do a warm-up (perhaps 10-15 minutes), then stretch, and ideally do a bit more of a warm-up before the event

Post event I really should, but rarely do, stretch

As far as I know, you lose some power for maximal efforts if you stretch beforehand. I never stretch before TT's or Watt tests etc..

mloc123

Home:Ballyhoura wrote: »

As far as I know, you lose some power for maximal efforts if you stretch beforehand. I never stretch before TT's or Watt tests etc..

This is true, you will reduce power output after stretching

niceonetom

Home:Ballyhoura wrote: »

As far as I know, you lose some power for maximal efforts if you stretch beforehand. I never stretch before TT's or Watt tests etc..

mloc123 wrote: »

This is true, you will reduce power output after stretching

This is news to me. Is this anecdotal or are there studies showing this?

Is it a short term thing? i.e. power drops off for X minutes/hours after stretching? or does this extend to all stretching, even if well separated from efforts?

I ask because I tend to do quite a bit of stretching, mostly after rides, but sometimes before and (up to now) I would have followed Beasty's general pattern for TT prep of warm-up, stretch, bit more of a warm-up, then go. I even attribute some of my (very modest) success at TTing to my better-than-average flexibility (it can't be my no-better-than-average power after all).

Beasty

I'd also be interested to hear more. When I started doing TT's last year I could barely walk after a 25 miler. Now with stretching and warm-up I feel much more comfortable on the bike and my recovery is much quicker (although I acknowledge this could simply be down to being generally fitter)

I would add that my inflexibility is notorious, even given my age. My hamstrings are pretty tight at the best of times and I had (mistakenly it appears) understood that stretching once warmed up would help

Now if you're telling me I could add a few watts to my TT power output by not stretching, this could be just the spur I need in the vets TT league;)

Home:Ballyhoura

Well my brother is a sports scientist and that is just what he told me along with many other small bits of advice before a power output test in order to put out the most watts possible over 4 minutes. I'm not sure of the details but I must ask him, maybe it doesn't apply to 1hr TT's maybe just maximal muscle exertions. I pretty much never stretch myself, but am quite confident in my TT capabiliteis. I would add that I am more flexible than most despite not stretching! I'll see can I get some more info on it.

doozerie

niceonetom wrote: »

This is news to me. Is this anecdotal or are there studies showing this?

Is it a short term thing? i.e. power drops off for X minutes/hours after stretching? or does this extend to all stretching, even if well separated from efforts?

I ask because I tend to do quite a bit of stretching, mostly after rides, but sometimes before and (up to now) I would have followed Beasty's general pattern for TT prep of warm-up, stretch, bit more of a warm-up, then go. I even attribute some of my (very modest) success at TTing to my better-than-average flexibility (it can't be my no-better-than-average power after all).

I've read stuff before that suggests that stretching reduces performance. I don't recall the details but I think it talked about stretching being a stress on the muscles that essentially tired them out a little or reduced their capacity to perform prior to competing. I didn't pay much attention as the stuff that I read was a bit vague on what they considered "stretching" and I think that this vagueness is at the root of a lot of contradictory studies on stretching. Hopefully someone can provide some references to real studies though as I'd be curious to read them too.

More generally, amongst the many variations on stretching methods that exist, Active Isolated Stretching is one that I've found interesting and I've been using this method for months now and like it. Here is one quote from the article which relates to the effect of "stretching" on performance:

The great Michael Johnson's warm-up routine includes 40 minutes of 'active isolated stretching' as its main ingredient.

...so assuming the claims of stretching's impact on performance are correct then either not all forms of "stretching" are equal or Michael Johnson was far more talented than his recorded performances suggest!

doozerie

One take on static stretching and its potentially negative impact on performance, taken from here (contains no references to the actual studies mentioned though):

DOES STATIC STRETCHING BEFORE TENNIS PLAY IMPROVE TENNIS PERFORMANCE?

Despite early evidence in the 1960’s that static stretching prior to activity did not improve performance in speed focused events like the 100 meter sprint, it has been a common practice by most coaches and athletes in warm-up routines for physical activity. Contrary to the typical belief that static stretching improves physical performance, there have been numerous studies that demonstrate that traditional “static” stretching actually decreases performance in STRENGTH, SPEED AND POWER activities. Vertical jump and depth jump performance, a good practical indication of power output, has shown to be significantly reduced following static stretching. Research studies on strength and power performances have shown decreases by as much as 30%.

How would you feel if you knew that you were reducing your performance, or the performance of your players, by up to 30%?

The deficit in performance following static stretching may be dependant on the type of stretching and mode of activity that follows the stretching routine. The deficit in performance following static stretching has been shown to last approximately 60 minutes after the stretching routine. In a group of studies performed at Louisiana State University looking at the effect of static stretching on sprint speed times, it was found that in highly trained athletes over 20 meters (very applicable to tennis athletes), a significant reduction in performance (slower sprint speed times) were seen in comparison to no static stretching. There is enough research that has been performed over the last two decades to support the fact that static stretching before tennis play will actually negatively influence performance.

Home:Ballyhoura

Two links to info on the topic before I ask the man who tells me about this stuff!

http://www.brianmac.co.uk/articles/article027.htm

http://www.elitesoccerconditioning.com/Stretching-Flexibility/DynamicStretchingvsStaticStretching.htm

SomeFool

I don't stretch myself but try to get to a pilates class once a week as well as doing two weights/core sessions per week.

Lumen

My unqualified take...

Static stretching cold does not increase risk of injury. Static stretching done wrong increases risk of injury. Yoga people don't go off for a run before a session, so why should you? The problem is attempting to reach a particular stretch point when your muscles/ligaments are not ready - that's overstretching, and that's what causes the injury. Stretching should not be painful; painful stretching is counterproductive as the muscles respond by shortening. Proper stretching is all about feel and feedback. This book is good:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stretching-Bob-Anderson/dp/0936070226

Anyway, stretching does affect performance, and it's related to the interplay of bike position and range of motion (ROM).

If you're pedalling near the limits of your ROM, you get an elastic "snap" which helps return your legs, something which would otherwise take muscle energy to produce. So it's more efficient.

However, too close to the limits of your ROM, that tension is going to be pulling at your body in unnatural ways. This is why people with tight hamstrings need to reduce saddle height to avoid lower back pain. At the limit of the ROM, that tightness pulls on the back and causes pain (and also IT band problems, probably).

Pedalling too far within your ROM (e.g. saddle too low) and you lose the elastic effect, and are probably recruiting fewer muscles. E.g. your hamstrings/glutes will be underutilised vs your quads.

Since stretching increases your range of motion (ROM), it will affect whether you hit that sweet spot of just-elastic-enough-without-pulling-you-out-of-shape.

If you have a bike fit which requires you to stretch to hit that sweet spot then stretch to get there. If not, don't.

FWIW I find isometric stretching very effective (compared to passive stretching), but most of the time I'm too damn lazy to do any stretching. I don't know anything about dynamic stretching other than people says it's better than static.

Hungrycol

I have a recurring groin muscle pain (enter whitty comment here) and if I don't stretch it before exercise it give me a lot of pain but if I do then I get no problems. I feel overall stretching increases my performance but what works for me might not work for you.

Interesting stuff there Lumen esp about the lower back pain.

fireblade001

I stretch everyday. Thou I’m just getting over a loooonnng term injury and stretch everyday. Intention is to continue it. To the people who say they don’t stretch when cold for fear of injury, IMHO stretching when cold is not a problem, it’s the amount of stretch that you do when cold that could be the problem. Being progressive over 2 or 3 stretches should be fine. Obviously you don’t stretch to your max on your first stretch.
And believe me, once you’ve stretched regularly for a few days your range of motion and flexibility will greatly improve, so the stress placed on muscle/tendon tissue from stretching when cold will be reduced. So it’s bit of a catch 22.
Think about it. If you regularly stretch, the muscle will become longer, more supple and flexible. But if your sport only ever stretches it to, let’s say 75% of its max, than that sport is not going to damage the muscle.

Khannie

The power output thing is for static stretching only if memory serves. The opposite is true for a dynamic warm up (again, I'm working off memory). A good user to give a poke on this would be Barry.Oglesby. He posted on this in the fitness forum before. I may try and dig it out later if I'm not too busy.

Lumen

Also, stretching advice is sport-specific.

Runners are discouraged from developing excessive flexibility because it destabilises the joints which can lead to injury. You don't want to be running along like a piece of cooked spaghetti.

In cycling there is not the same problem because your motions are generally constrained by "attachment" to the saddle and pedals. There's just this slightly difficult to pin down "elasticity" thing. That, along with the need for aero efficiency, means that it's difficult to be over-flexible for cycling. Particularly when too many of us are not-quite-middle-aged geeks who spend all day hunched over a computer.

doozerie

Lumen wrote: »

Runners are discouraged from developing excessive flexibility because it destabilises the joints which can lead to injury. You don't want to be running along like a piece of cooked spaghetti.

I'm not sure there is such a thing as excessive flexibility, as such. You can certainly get the balance wrong between strength and flexibility though which will leave you more prone to injury if you push your muscles/joints to the limit of their range of motion only to find that you don't have the muscle strength in those circumstance to stop them from going beyond their range. But having flexible muscles in itself doesn't mean that you'll flop about wildly if you break into a run for example, otherwise the likes of ballet dancers, gymnasts, martial artists, etc., wouldn't last long in their careers.

Over-stretching ligaments is another matter entirely though. If you lengthen ligaments you are likely to weaken the joint they support and that'll leave you in serious risk of injury. A proper stretching routine should not do that though (but it is certainly the case that some people do not follow a proper stretching routine).

el tel

How on earth are you meant to get on a bike without stretching?

Do you kats get lowered onto your bikes by a sling or what? :pac:

VW 1

Wouldnt be a stretcher before cycling myself, just take it handy for the first 5 mins. Would sometimes stretch after if I am feeling tight anywhere but not regularly.

Lumen

doozerie wrote: »

I'm not sure there is such a thing as excessive flexibility, as such

http://www.brianmac.co.uk/articles/scni8a1.htm

"Any further ROM should be developed only if analysis of the sport’s movements suggests that extra mobility is required. The obvious example is gymnastics, where contestants must perform movements with extreme ROMs. A footballer who developed the kinds of flexibility a gymnast needs would be at greater risk of injury since hyper mobile joints become unstable. This relationship has been shown in American football players, with those who have overdeveloped hamstring flexibility suffering more from ACL strain. A likely reason is that the flexible hamstrings allow the knee to hyperextend more readily.

So the general rule regarding the relationship between flexibility and injury is that a normal ROM in each muscle group will protect against injury. However, specific movements in each sport that requires extra ROM will need extra flexibility development to guard against injury. This may mean that an endurance runner’s hamstring ROM may be less than a sprinter’s, while a sprinter may not need such a large ROM in the groin as a tennis player, whose sport demands large lateral lunging movements. Extreme ROMs should only be developed out of necessity, since they lead to higher joint-injury risks, just as small ROMs lead to higher muscle strain risks."

Keep_Her_Lit

Lumen wrote: »

If you're pedalling near the limits of your ROM, you get an elastic "snap" which helps return your legs, something which would otherwise take muscle energy to produce. So it's more efficient.

...

Pedalling too far within your ROM (e.g. saddle too low) and you lose the elastic effect, and are probably recruiting fewer muscles. E.g. your hamstrings/glutes will be underutilised vs your quads.

Since stretching increases your range of motion (ROM), it will affect whether you hit that sweet spot of just-elastic-enough-without-pulling-you-out-of-shape.

If you have a bike fit which requires you to stretch to hit that sweet spot then stretch to get there. If not, don't.

This sounds right. Of course, with cycling, you're not generally jumping on board and attempting to generate maximum power output. So the effect of pre-exercise stretching on your performance may be quite subtle when you're spinning along at a sustainable pace. And even if you do notice some difference, it may not be that easy to pin-point the cause, unless you're deliberately conducting a controlled experiment.

A different type of exercise which clearly demonstrates the elastic snap referred to here is the back squat (in weightlifting). When done with proper form (deep), the hamstrings play a major role. As your backside descends towards the floor, an acute angle forms between the back and thighs which stretches the glutes and hamstrings. If these muscles are the optimum length, this stretch on the way down "charges" them and they then provide a very significant part of the drive out of the deep position. This means that you can lift more and it also relieves a considerable part of the burden from the quads and knees.

If the hamstrings and glutes are too long, they won't be in tension at the bottom of the movement and won't provide the same level of drive on the way back up. If they are too short, you won't have sufficient flexibility to lift with proper form (i.e. you won't be able to go deep). So as described above, there's a sweet spot.

An advantage of movements like this is that they can be very well controlled and are highly repeatable. If you are down on power for any reason, you get to find out very quickly - you can either complete that 10 rep set or you can't. Also, because you are loading your muscles close to their maximum capacity, the feedback is more direct - when the hamstrings and glutes are doing their job properly, you can really feel it.

In any case, there's little doubt that pre-exercise muscle length has a direct bearing on performance in other sports too and can be affected one way or the other by stretching, albeit in a less pronounced way in the case of most cycling.

To answer the poll question, I generally stretch after getting home each evening. If I don't, my legs become progressively tighter and less responsive over a few days and some pain can crop up around the knees due to tightness. I don't generally stretch before cycling but will do so if my legs are tighter than usual, typically because I skimped on stretching the previous evening or two.

doozerie

Lumen wrote: »

http://www.brianmac.co.uk/articles/scni8a1.htm

"...A footballer who developed the kinds of flexibility a gymnast needs would be at greater risk of injury since hyper mobile joints become unstable. This relationship has been shown in American football players, with those who have overdeveloped hamstring flexibility suffering more from ACL strain. A likely reason is that the flexible hamstrings allow the knee to hyperextend more readily...."

I don't get this. If your hamstrings have average flexibility then you can hyperextend your knee if the hamstrings are not strong enough to resist the hyperextension and/or if the hamstrings tear. If you have very good hamstring flexibility then it seems to me that the same rules apply - if the hamstring is not strong enough to resist then hyperextension can occur but tearing of the hamstring is less likely. So, to my mind, as long as you strengthen the hamstring alongside increasing its flexibility then you are at no greater risk of hyperextension with your greater flexibility but you are at less risk of tearing the hamstring.

Well that's my thinking as a lay person, so obviously may well be flawed in any number of ways. The guy expressing the views on that site may well be highly qualified but stretching (methods of, benefits of, etc.) remains a contentious topic even today and some of his statements seem debatable to me despite how starkly he presents them.

macnab

OK just for the hell of it I did my usual 37km training this evening without stretching (I usually hold stretches on each working muscle for 30 seconds each) I also set off at a much harder pace than normal, ie no warm up. And just to confuse the experiment I didnt add any carbs to my drink and didnt take any gels. The result is my fastest time ever and no pains (yet) What I cant understand is my average heart rate and my maximum heart rate are both lower than usual for the spin even though I knocked over 1 minute off my best time. I think I will stick to engineering cos this biology mularkey is confusing.

Lumen

macnab wrote: »

OK just for the hell of it I did my usual 37km training this evening without stretching (I usually hold stretches on each working muscle for 30 seconds each) I also set off at a much harder pace than normal, ie no warm up. And just to confuse the experiment I didnt add any carbs to my drink and didnt take any gels. The result is my fastest time ever and no pains (yet) What I cant understand is my average heart rate and my maximum heart rate are both lower than usual for the spin even though I knocked over 1 minute off my best time. I think I will stick to engineering cos this biology mularkey is confusing.

If those data were repeatable it would confirm the theory that the elasticity of unstretched muscles increases gross efficiency.

However, 1 minute is not much over 37km. Go and do it again, nine more times. :pac: