HELP..Injection to abort calf

Ford4000

Lad saw one of my calves today up close they have been on the hill for a month and havent been that close to them, she seems heavy down low and the fear of god is in me that she got served by a neighbours bull sturk or something, August calf and if it was served when they were an outfarm she could be 3 maybe 4 months gone, what are my options in your opinion ??
Any help appreciated lads

Bizzum

First things first:
Scan her or get her handled tomorrow to confirm her status.
You may get lucky!

Ford4000

Going to get er dipped tomoro ....
Never happened me before talk about the nightmare scenario

Ford4000

What stage in pregnancy can they get an injection to abort?

greysides

Up to, not including, 5 months.

reilig

greysides wrote: »

Up to, not including, 5 months.

Are you sure? The last time that i got an abort injection from the vet, he said that it works best at under 6 weeks and is often unsuccessful at over 8 weeks.

reilig

whelan1 wrote: »

isnt greysides a vet ?

I don't know. He's not my vet anyway .

I'm just passing on what my vet told me. I'm sure we'll have another "medicinal professional" come along soon and tell us that we are all wrong anyway!! :eek:

greysides

From the datasheet on the UK medicines site (I presume it works the same in Ireland )-

Termination of normal pregnancy


Normal pregnancy can be terminated in cattle from one week after conception until the 150th day of gestation. Best results are obtained during the first 100 days. Treated animals should be kept under observation until expulsion of the foetus and placenta is complete.

Occcassionally it works later in pregnancy when it's not supposed to i.e. before the time when it can be used to induce. In this case the birth is more like a ewe that's ringed............ slow and messy. Mostly, it just doesn't work.

greysides

whelan1 wrote: »

isnt greysides a vet ?

Not here.

Ford4000

Got er dipped today , not in calf, thank christ, my bad she must be bad with worms i dosed all cattle today with clasamectin pour on !!

Bizzum

Good stuff.
No need to panic about most things in life 'till ya have to.

Kovu

Ford4000 wrote: »

Got er dipped today , not in calf, thank christ, my bad she must be bad with worms i dosed all cattle today with clasamectin pour on !!

Closamectin? Do you treat all the cattle with it? I've never used it on cattle below 2 years (Noromectin instead) as it's a waste of money due to younger cattle not having much, if any, fluke build up.

(depending on the land of course)

greysides

Karen112 wrote: »

......I've never used it on cattle below 2 years..... younger cattle not having much, if any, fluke build up.

(depending on the land of course)

Why ?

LostCovey

Karen112 wrote: »

Closamectin? Do you treat all the cattle with it? I've never used it on cattle below 2 years (Noromectin instead) as it's a waste of money due to younger cattle not having much, if any, fluke build up.

(depending on the land of course)

Karen112,

Go on, tell us why young stock don't get fluke?

LostCovey

Kovu

LostCovey wrote: »

Karen112,

Go on, tell us why young stock don't get fluke?

LostCovey

They do get fluke, but not fluke build up that is seen in older cattle.
If weanlings are correctly housed, fed and are on good ground with no past history of fluke, I see no need to fluke them. You will see an animal with a 'fluke chin' as they say around here, and by that stage it is bad. But when you worm and growvite animals every 8 weeks, on dry land, there is only a slight chance of fluke. Bad land & bad management causes it. Prevention is the only way to keep it off land for life. Maybe you have let it build up on your land, but I have not, I have never, ever, heard anything back from a customer to my animals about them having fluke.
Good treatment makes an animal, bad treatment ruins them.

Butcher Boy

I kill alot of young heifers and i can tell u we skip alot of there livers with fluke.Most are bought in . fluke is a big problem in young stock it always was.

greysides

Karen112 wrote: »

They do get fluke, but not fluke build up that is seen in older cattle.

If weanlings are correctly housed, fed and are on good ground with no past history of fluke, I see no need to fluke them.

If older cattle are treated the same as weanlings, why would they suffer fluke build up?

Prevention is the only way to keep it off land for life. Maybe you have let it build up on your land, but I have not, I have never, ever, heard anything back from a customer to my animals about them having fluke.

Prevention has nothing to do with it. I thought something similar for years...............i.e. if you had fluke habits but no fluke in your cattle due to worming and you treated any bought in animals that you should escape fluke as the snails would never get infected themselves.........

Doesn't work like that. Rabbits and hares are affected by fluke and it cycles between them and the snails. So if you have the appropriate habitat then you will have fluke present to some degree.

On the other hand, if your land doesn't suit the intermediate snail host you won't have fluke .................... in either weanlings or adults.

Kovu

greysides wrote: »

If older cattle are treated the same as weanlings, why would they suffer fluke build up?





Prevention has nothing to do with it. I thought something similar for years...............i.e. if you had fluke habits but no fluke in your cattle due to worming and you treated any bought in animals that you should escape fluke as the snails would never get infected themselves.........

Doesn't work like that. Rabbits and hares are affected by fluke and it cycles between them and the snails. So if you have the appropriate habitat then you will have fluke present to some degree.

On the other hand, if your land doesn't suit the intermediate snail host you won't have fluke .................... in either weanlings or adults.

I don't want this thread to turn into everyone VS Karen. I simply have not seen bad fluke in cattle that were dosed well as youngsters and have been kept on non fluke land. It's not the easiest to achieve on Leitrim land, but I've done it, is it that difficult to do with better land???

whelan1

some people dont do for fluke at all!!!! different folks different strokes, doctors differ and patients die:cool:

greysides

Karen112 wrote: »

I don't want this thread to turn into everyone VS Karen.

Sorry if it seems like that. I wanted to understand why you said what you said or if you had a breech in your parasite control to point it out to you.

I simply have not seen bad fluke in cattle that were dosed well as youngsters and have been kept on non fluke land. It's not the easiest to achieve on Leitrim land, but I've done it, is it that difficult to do with better land???

There has been attempts to produce a vaccine for fluke in the past which have failed. Conclusion, there is no development of protective immunity in cattle (or, at least no development of an immunity that can be tapped to make a vaccine). This differs to stomach worms where adults have a strong protective immunity and Hoose where there is a vaccine, Dictol.

I think the explanation in your case may be keeping them on non-fluke land.
Unless of course, you haven't mentioned you've the biggest free-range goose production unit in Ireland.:D

Kovu

greysides wrote: »

Sorry if it seems like that. I wanted to understand why you said what you said or if you had a breech in your parasite control to point it out to you.



There has been attempts to produce a vaccine for fluke in the past which have failed. Conclusion, there is no development of protective immunity in cattle (or, at least no development of an immunity that can be tapped to make a vaccine). This differs to stomach worms where adults have a strong protective immunity and Hoose where there is a vaccine, Dictol.

I think the explanation in your case may be keeping them on non-fluke land.
Unless of course, you haven't mentioned you've the biggest free-range goose production unit in Ireland.:D

It's probably a simple case of ignorance to a parasite I've never had to deal much with, on my part. Prevention is better than cure in EVERY case. So I've attempted to keep it out and I think I've succeeded. When you see dealers in the mart judging the cattle by the soft hair that's a sign of good thrive, you know you're doing something right. What you speak of, with the immunity, it bears one question, would it be like Redwater and only be specific to the land, or would it be a generalisation? I know the vaccine does not exist but it does pose an interesting question.:rolleyes:

P.S......Try a Ghicken, a chicken cooked inside a goose. Yum.

whelan1

but sure look at rumen fluke no one knew it exsisted til a few years ago:o we do all cows at drying off with a fluke and worm dose , a neighbour thinks i'm mad- i probably am- he never does his cows, although i used to do them with eprinex pour on(very dear) and flukiver but since flukiver is no longer allowed in milking animals i use endospec oral drench that does both fluke and worms , so i am saving money

moy83

Karen112 wrote: »

It's probably a simple case of ignorance to a parasite I've never had to deal much with, on my part. Prevention is better than cure in EVERY case. So I've attempted to keep it out and I think I've succeeded. When you see dealers in the mart judging the cattle by the soft hair that's a sign of good thrive, you know you're doing something right. What you speak of, with the immunity, it bears one question, would it be like Redwater and only be specific to the land, or would it be a generalisation? I know the vaccine does not exist but it does pose an interesting question.:rolleyes:

P.S......Try a Ghicken, a chicken cooked inside a goose. Yum.

Go all the way and try a ten bird roast even tastier:D

Kovu

whelan1 wrote: »

but sure look at rumen fluke no one knew it exsisted til a few years ago:o we do all cows at drying off with a fluke and worm dose , a neighbour thinks i'm mad- i probably am- he never does his cows, although i used to do them with eprinex pour on(very dear) and flukiver but since flukiver is no longer allowed in milking animals i use endospec oral drench that does both fluke and worms , so i am saving money

I never use drenches since my dad nearly had his thumb bitten off. Noromectin is the usual for us (the pour on) but we change it every 2-3 years to avoid resistance. Trodax is an absolute hell to use in my opinion, it can stick to the muscle inside the skin if it's incorrectly given and leaves a very unsightly lump. As some farmer would say..."There's no fluke on my land" but you dose for it anyway. Better safe than sorry.

Kovu

moy83 wrote: »

Go all the way and try a ten bird roast even tastier:D

NOM! With the woodcock in the middle!:D

whelan1

Karen112 wrote: »

I never use drenches since my dad nearly had his thumb bitten off. Noromectin is the usual for us (the pour on) but we change it every 2-3 years to avoid resistance. Trodax is an absolute hell to use in my opinion, it can stick to the muscle inside the skin if it's incorrectly given and leaves a very unsightly lump. As some farmer would say..."There's no fluke on my land" but you dose for it anyway. Better safe than sorry.

dont think there is any injectable flukicide that can be given to dairy cows anymore... i have de knuckled myself many times at this stage

Kovu

whelan1 wrote: »

dont think there is any injectable flukicide that can be given to dairy cows anymore... i have de knuckled myself many times at this stage

Well I'm not dairy, currently training in my blue for the fatstock in Carrick!
But I remember being in dairy, I nearly feckin' passed out looking at the Baysodil or whatever it's called, the tick & lice pour on. 250+ days before slaughter???!! Surely that has to be fecked with dry cows going straight to slaughter from marts.

moy83

Karen112 wrote: »

NOM! With the woodcock in the middle!:D

Snipe in the very middle . I cant remember all the birds in a ten bird but we did five last year and there was some eating in that

Kovu

moy83 wrote: »

Snipe in the very middle . I cant remember all the birds in a ten bird but we did five last year and there was some eating in that

Ah, you have me. It is indeed snipe. Is it snipe inside woodcock, then partridge and quail???

Bizzum

Karen112 wrote: »

It's probably a simple case of ignorance to a parasite I've never had to deal much with, on my part. Prevention is better than cure in EVERY case. So I've attempted to keep it out and I think I've succeeded.

Indeed. This is a route I'm thinking of going down. I'm going to erect a suitable fence and put up signs!

moy83

Karen112 wrote: »

Ah, you have me. It is indeed snipe. Is it snipe inside woodcock, then partridge and quail???

we did goose ,chicken, duck, woodcock and snipe . I think the ten bird is goose turkey chicken duck pheasant partridge pigeon quail woodcock snipe

greysides

Karen112 wrote: »

...... would it be like Redwater and only be specific to the land, or would it be a generalisation?

Both Redwater and Fluke involve another animal, a tick or a mudsnail. Without either of these the associated disease wouldn't exist.

So like all animals their existance depends on the presence of their habitat. The habitat may be widespread or very localised.

For ticks it's old pasture. For mudsnails it's mud, not water (as many may think).

Water is for water-snails, the intermediate host of ruminal fluke.

As fluke will utilise rabbits and hares where cattle don't exist, one side effect of one drugs companies experiements to eliminate fluke was some very healthy and fast wildlife.

Strategic dosing to break the fluke lifecycle will eventually reduce infection levels in the wild hosts and thus protect the cattle indirectly. You may have achieved this.

Kovu

Bizzum wrote: »

Indeed. This is a route I'm thinking of going down. I'm going to erect a suitable fence and put up signs!

Hahahaha, my first LOL of the day goes to you!:D

flatout11

can be done successfully up to 3 months in calf (estrumate, prosolvin lutase etc..) not so successful after that