Gilmore the hypocrit

The Volt

anymore wrote: »

Frankly if we spent more, most of the money would be money down the drain.

Would you think it's money down the drain if you end up sick in hospital and you're depending on the public health service, the overworked nurses and harassed junior doctors to save your life? Or maybe you would prefer the American way where they check to see if you have insurance before they put you into the ambulance.

anymore

Voltwad wrote: »

..

We've forgotten about building a society in our rush to preserve an economy. There was a time when an economy was being built to serve a society and it's very clear that those roles have been reversed.

This is such a terrible old hackneyed cliche ! Economies were never 'built' to serve societies ! Economies evolve just as socities evolove. Ireland needs to let go of it's love affair with cliches.

anymore

Voltwad wrote: »

Would you think it's money down the drain if you end up sick in hospital and you're depending on the public health service, the overworked nurses and harassed junior doctors to save your life? Or maybe you would prefer the American way where they check to see if you have insurance before they put you into the ambulance.

I did have the experience recently of comparing a VHS clinic with an A & E in the public service. I was treated like a human being in the VHI clinic and like an imposition in the hospital - some of the staff seemed to be irritated to have to interupt their converation about thier social lives and the Doctor couldnt even bother his ass giving advice about whether or not to take painkillers - given he had been looking at a broken hand and dislocation, it might actually have occured to him.... if he gave a damn !
In contrast, I did find the follow up clinics useful ... but even these didnt take away the bad taste from the original A & E treatment.

The Volt

anymore wrote: »

This is such a terrible old hackneyed cliche ! Economies were never 'built' to serve societies ! Economies evolve just as socities evolove. Ireland needs to let go of it's love affair with cliches.

In doing so, you're suggesting that we let go of our love affair with our own people. People seem to buy into the mythical being that is the market, an omnipresent being that has to be served at all costs. The economy must serve the people, what are we other than slaves otherwise?

For somebody who's just keeping his head above water, I'm surprised to see that you've bought into the story that somehow ordinary workers are responsible for the position that we're in now when it's been proved beyond all reasonable doubt that that's just not the case. The real crime in this country is that the criminals who are responsible for the loss of our economic freedom are all still free and not one of them has appeared in the courts though given some of the recent judgements of our esteemed judiciary, there's every likelihood that they'd have let their buddies off anyway.

The Volt

anymore wrote: »

I did have the experience recently of comparing a VHS clinic with an A & E in the public service. I was treated like a human being in the VHI clinic and like an imposition in the hospital - some of the staff seemed to be irritated to have to interupt their converation about thier social lives and the Doctor couldnt even bother his ass giving advice about whether or not to take painkillers - given he had been looking at a broken hand and dislocation, it might actually have occured to him.... if he gave a damn !
In contrast, I did find the follow up clinics useful ... but even these didnt take away the bad taste from the original A & E treatment.

Anyone who has been unfortunate enough to need attention in our health system will vouch for getting treatment of the highest quality. As you have pointed out though, A&E is a major, major problem, one that I have experienced myself recently in Naas but that is down to a total lack of investment and our highly trained staff going elsewhere on the continent to where they are better treated.

Sand

@Voltwad

The public sector workers kept this country going despite a total lack of preparation by our political masters.

What? Its the public sector workers who are supposed to provide the planning and capacity to handle bad weather. I hardly think anyone expected to see Minister Ryan out gritting the roads or planning the neccessary purchases. As it was, most people were left to fend for themselves during the bad winter conditions.

That ministerial pressure is so heavily required to get anything done is a fairly damning indictment of the civil service/public sector.

Liam Byrne

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Very true (a rare occasion that we agree) however when ordinary decent people see the banks paying massive bonuses despite THEM not having any cash, they obviously feel that the "experts" don't see the need to live by that rule.

anymore

Voltwad wrote: »

Anyone who has been unfortunate enough to need attention in our health system will vouch for getting treatment of the highest quality. As you have pointed out though, A&E is a major, major problem, one that I have experienced myself recently in Naas but that is down to a total lack of investment and our highly trained staff going elsewhere on the continent to where they are better treated.

You keep trotting out these cliches about ' highest quality' etc in relation to PS when anybody who reads the newspapers sees there is ample evidence that that is not always the case !
So let make a connection between the incompetence of our ' political masters' and one particular sector of the PS. 20 % of TDs/ Senators the last Dail were either still holding on their permanent teacher's jobs or had already retired. Six Ministers, I believe, of the last cabinet were teachers/former teachers. So the teaching profession had an enormous influence on the ' failed policies' of the last ten years. The present Taoiseach and present Leader of the Opposition are teachers/retired teachers. Expand the category to include TDs/ Senators who were members of other sectors of the PS and then expand it to include TDs/Senators who are married to members who are part of PS - you can include Eamon Gilmore and former Minister Mary Coughlan in this category. Add on that category again those top level civil servants who have an important role in the decision making process or who are relied upon to provide Ministers with relevant information and we are getting to the point of seeing just how much our ' political masters' are in fact very much part and parcel of the PS ! Now I dont think there are too many serving/former nurses or ambulance drivers who are part of the political establishment - there may a small few who have become TDs or Senators but I am not aware of them. The same goes for ambulance drivers members of the army etc. So the point I am making is that a certain sector of the PS wields enormous clout over the policy making and decision making process of this country. So maybe you should include this sector under the heading ' Political masters'

anymore

Voltwad wrote: »

In doing so, you're suggesting that we let go of our love affair with our own people. People seem to buy into the mythical being that is the market, an omnipresent being that has to be served at all costs. The economy must serve the people, what are we other than slaves otherwise?

For somebody who's just keeping his head above water, I'm surprised to see that you've bought into the story that somehow ordinary workers are responsible for the position that we're in now when it's been proved beyond all reasonable doubt that that's just not the case. The real crime in this country is that the criminals who are responsible for the loss of our economic freedom are all still free and not one of them has appeared in the courts though given some of the recent judgements of our esteemed judiciary, there's every likelihood that they'd have let their buddies off anyway.

Your first paragraph there reminds of the kind of stuff that John waters and David Quinn write. Excpet neither of these two gentlemen seem to mind being part of the ' market' when it comes to being paid for services rendered. Anybody who walks, cyles or drives around our roads and sees the number of 2010 and 2011 cars on the road can see many people are doing very well thanks !

thebman

Voltwad wrote: »

Frankly, I find it lazy when people don't.

Even when it is the unions? The reason you can't have a proper analysis of where the cuts should happen is the unions fight tooth and nail when anyone attempts to target the waste.

The unions would rather nobody looses their job in the public sector regardless of whether they are needed or not as they all pay union fees, in fact the useless are more likely to be paying them to keep themselves well protected.

If the public sector doesn't want to be treated as one group then it needs to stop acting like one group TBH and get behind proper reform.

thebman

Voltwad wrote: »

The public sector workers kept this country going despite a total lack of preparation by our political masters.

Yes with the help of the IMF.