**Spoilers** Series 6, Episode 8 - "Lets Kill Hitler"

Basq

Yahew wrote: »

Heres a real conundrum though - what about the custard and fish fingers line. What did that mean?

The first meeting of The Doctor and Amelia Pond..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo2RKAHu-kI

Yahew

Sure, I know what it referenced but what did it mean in the context of what was going on in the tardis with the holographic young amelia. It meant something. He was asking for help and she said that cryptic phrase. He smiled. It was a clue about something.

We also lost a few minutes of his life. He has 32 minutes- that is mentioned a lot ( why?) , and then next scene he was a few minutes from death, and dressed in a tux. Unlike the jacket at the beginning that change of dress might mean something i.e. did he go back to the wedding. Did he go back to Amelia Pond again. Or is it all just a red herring. anyway a few minutes are missing.

Mahatma coat

I think the fishfingers and Custard might have had something to do with Regeneration energies, Like Tennants Doctor and a nice Cup of tea.

Jessibelle

I... don't understand ...So she was brainwashed, but now she's not? How? Because he cured her with the power of love? Seriously? Brainwashing is the result of intense psychological programming (akin to torture), and takes years to undo. Even then, the damage is permanent. About the only thing they got right about it is that the damage they caused turned her into a manic, borderline psychopath throughout her younger life. And the greatest warrior the universe has known is thrown off by her enemy dying and others showing him loyalty?? Ughh... I really don't understand.... >_<

mach1982

When the guys in robot say they found the biggest war criminal , Melody Pond , a picture of Tardis came up, it said that was stolen , yes I know Doctor stole it, but what is the one thing every one in the Universe associates with the Doctor the Tradis . Maybe someone stole it from him , where is his Tardis in the " impossible astronaut" ?

They say that Melody Pond will kill Doctor and his death is a fix point in time and space it can not be rewritten. They also look surprised when she regenerate into River, did they know that River and Melody are the same . if the knew River was Melody , wouldn't be simpler to kill her in the Stromcage? Also who are the guys in the robot Time agents ? Could River be recaptured and brainwashed again to kill the doctor , as in impossible astronaut when River fires the gun at the astronaut , she says "of course not" when she misses , as if she already experience this ?

one other point is the Doctor in " lets Kill Hitler " the same Doctor, (different coat) maybe he is a future version where this already taken place that how new that Melody was going try an kill him . is this what River meant when she say to Rory in "Impossible astronaut " "That the day I met him he knew everything about me "

Killer_banana

Yahew wrote: »

Sure, I know what it referenced but what did it mean in the context of what was going on in the tardis with the holographic young amelia. It meant something. He was asking for help and she said that cryptic phrase. He smiled. It was a clue about something.

Well he kept asking Amelia to hlep him and the hologram just kept telling him it wasn't really her. He seemed to lose hope and that point and almost passed out. When it said 'Fish fingers and custard' I just took it as the TARDIS trying to give the Doctor hope. To motivate him to keep trying. After 'The Doctor's Wife' we know the TARDIS has some sentient qualities so I just took it as her not wanting her old friend to die. But I could be compellingly wrong, just my intepretation.

Absolutely brilliant episode. Loved every second of it. I wonder how long Hitler stayed in the cupboard. :P

So, when dya think we'll be able to buy sonic canes?

I want one...

Sonics2k

I have to admit I wasn't hugely impressed with the episode.

It was certainly enjoyable, and had its moments of great suspense.
However it felt somehow... disjointed.

Richard Dower

I watched thi ep. yesterday, muck....nonsensical mess, utter childish drivel. I was completely baffled, no clue wtf was going on.....only good thing was hottie Karen Gillan.....though she does come across snooty and stuck up.

Torchwood is excellent!....as in the BBC ones, Miracle Day is cack compared to the originals.

The Recliner

Richard Dower wrote: »

I watched thi ep. yesterday, muck....nonsensical mess, utter childish drivel. I was completely baffled, no clue wtf was going on.....only good thing was hottie Karen Gillan.....though she does come across snooty and stuck up.

Torchwood is excellent!....as in the BBC ones, Miracle Day is cack compared to the originals.

Did you not say in one of the Torchwood threads that you haven't watched Doctor Who

This episode is halfway through a season and both this season and last season have threads of the same story running through them, without watching the other episodes I wouldn't expect it to make sense to you

Sesudra

Doctor DooM wrote: »

I dunno, like you're never going to know every single possible corner of a question, but one would assume she was adopted by English people.

I assumed that she was picked up and adopted by the people who brainwashed her, brought to Leadsworth to grow up with Amy and Rory and wait for her chance to kill the Doctor. Otherwise,it'd mean a toddler somehow made her way from New York to England on her own!

One question I did have was why did Mels not try to kill the Doctor as soon as she saw him in the field? The brainwashing only seemed to kick in when she regenerated

cython

Sesudra wrote: »

I assumed that she was picked up and adopted by the people who brainwashed her, brought to Leadsworth to grow up with Amy and Rory and wait for her chance to kill the Doctor. Otherwise,it'd mean a toddler somehow made her way from New York to England on her own!

One question I did have was why did Mels not try to kill the Doctor as soon as she saw him in the field? The brainwashing only seemed to kick in when she regenerated

That's addressed in the episode, dismissed as that she had only just met him then or something along those lines.

Stark

Sonics2k wrote: »

I have to admit I wasn't hugely impressed with the episode.

It was certainly enjoyable, and had its moments of great suspense.
However it felt somehow... disjointed.

Likewise. Too many bit stories in there to maintain any sort of dramatic tension. The Hitler thing was a huge let-down as well. "Oh look, it's Hitler, put him in a cupboard, forget about him for the rest of the episode". Having it set in 1930s Berlin was completely pointless.

Penn

Stark wrote: »

Likewise. Too many bit stories in there to maintain any sort of dramatic tension. The Hitler thing was a huge let-down as well. "Oh look, it's Hitler, put him in a cupboard, forget about him for the rest of the episode". Having it set in 1930s Berlin was completely pointless.

I think the point was to emphasise how River is "the greatest war criminal in history" for killing The Doctor, even when compared to Hitler. Symbolises The Doctor's importance too.

Cormic

I enjoyed the episode but my kids were completely lost.

One question I have is how does River manage to travel in time? In the end of the episode she is shown in the year 5123...

Stark

Barrington wrote: »

I think the point was to emphasise how River is "the greatest war criminal in history" for killing The Doctor, even when compared to Hitler. Symbolises The Doctor's importance too.

Episode gets a big "Godwin's law" fail.

Das Kitty

Barrington wrote: »

I think the point was to emphasise how River is "the greatest war criminal in history" for killing The Doctor, even when compared to Hitler. Symbolises The Doctor's importance too.

It was also a way of having the Numskulls there to accidentally run into River whilst they were busy with Hitler

Penn

Stark wrote: »

Episode gets a big "Godwin's law" fail.

Actually no. Godwin's Law is when you compare someone on the internet to Hitler, when clearly they aren't as bad as Hitler.

This, as the mini-people are some sort of law enforcement bit, would suggest that River Song IS actually worse than Hitler for her crimes, that they would abandon him (well, they discovered they were too early to kill him anyway) and go after River Song instead.

Anyway, my main thought after watching the episode:

The Doctor we see die in The impossible Planet could now theoretically be Flesh or Tessalect. Now that The Doctor knows where and when he'll die, he now has two ways to have a lookalike

Stark

Barrington wrote: »

This, as the mini-people are some sort of law enforcement bit, would suggest that River Song IS actually worse than Hitler for her crimes, that they would abandon him (well, they discovered they were too early to kill him anyway) and go after River Song instead.

Except she's not. Hitler killed millions of people. River Song killed one man. Unless River Song was into some large scale ethnic cleansing that we don't know about, it's completely trite for Moffet to say that the Doctor is more important than millions of Jews etc.

MrVestek

Barrington wrote: »

Now that The Doctor knows where and when he'll die, he now has two ways to have a lookalike

I thought though that if he became aware that he crossed his own timeline that the universe would rip a hole in itself?

Also the Tesalecta wouldn't work as a body double as we saw him start to regenerate and as far as we know only the ganger doctor would be able to regenerate...

Penn

Stark wrote: »

Except she's not. Hitler killed millions of people. River Song killed one man. Unless River Song was into some large scale ethnic cleansing that we don't know about, it's completely trite for Moffet to say that the Doctor is more important than millions of Jews etc.

But how many times has The Doctor saved just Earth, let alone dozens of other planets? The Doctor dies, billions of others could die.

Moffat isn't saying The Doctor is more important than millions of Jews, and even The Doctor would be willing to sacrifice himself to save one Jewish person if he could. I think he's trying to say that in terms of time and space, killing The Doctor would have huge implications.

Just my opinion.

Achilles wrote: »

Also the Tesalecta wouldn't work as a body double as we saw him start to regenerate and as far as we know only the ganger doctor would be able to regenerate...

Well the Tessalecta is some sort of robot, so I don't think it's a big stretch to make it look like it's regenerating. As for the ganger, The Doctor we saw was shot in daylight. By the time they put him in the boat, set fire to it and pushed it out into the lake, it was dark. The ganger Doctor would have turned back into Flesh before that.

MrVestek

Barrington wrote: »

But how many times has The Doctor saved just Earth, let alone dozens of other planets? The Doctor dies, billions of others could die.

Moffat isn't saying The Doctor is more important than millions of Jews, and even The Doctor would be willing to sacrifice himself to save one Jewish person if he could. I think he's trying to say that in terms of time and space, killing The Doctor would have huge implications.

Just my opinion.



Well the Tessalecta is some sort of robot, so I don't think it's a big stretch to make it look like it's regenerating. As for the ganger, The Doctor we saw was shot in daylight. By the time they put him in the boat, set fire to it and pushed it out into the lake, it was dark. The ganger Doctor would have turned back into Flesh before that.

Not unless he had been in to the TARDIS and thus turned in to a 'real' person.

Penn

Good point actually, I didn't think of that

pixelburp

Going by some of the images seen in trailers for 6.5, I'm currently of the theory that the dead doctor is an alternate timeline one. I think moffats going to use that to get out of jail, while staying true to the quotes that the doc does indeed die

Yahew

Stark wrote: »

Except she's not. Hitler killed millions of people. River Song killed one man. Unless River Song was into some large scale ethnic cleansing that we don't know about, it's completely trite for Moffet to say that the Doctor is more important than millions of Jews etc.

No American program would have done that for sure. Interestingly the justice dept didnt seem to know all that much about Hitler. Since they are so far in the future, that might well make sense. Lots of genocides in the meantime.

Memnoch99

Definitely need to re watch it again but what was the reason behind Rivers comment ''Im going to wear lots of jumpers''? She says it just after regenerating.

Basq

Memnoch99 wrote: »

Definitely need to re watch it again but what was the reason behind Rivers comment ''Im going to wear lots of jumpers''? She says it just after regenerating.

To accentuate her breasts?

Stark

Could be a derision of the Doctor's typical post-regeneration dress sense.

deconduo

BaconZombie

Memnoch99 wrote: »

Definitely need to re watch it again but what was the reason behind Rivers comment ''Im going to wear lots of jumpers''? She says it just after regenerating.

Basq wrote: »

To accentuate her breasts?

I heard it as "Jodhpurs", so we was talking about wearing stuff to show off her ass.