Labels on people with illness - problem or beneficial?

flutterflye

euser1984 wrote: »

I think you may be trolling this thread - not apt in any circumstance but particularly in an illness forum.

No, I don't get the impression that irishh_bob is trolling.
I think he/she just has a different view based on his own experiences and observations.
He is not 'wrong' in his views, he just sees things differently.

irishh_bob

euser1984 wrote: »

Didn't know that though I did know of two including CBT and psychodynamic.

I didn't go through my past so much. It was mostly about the here and now. I did not have the emotional capacity or insight for a lot of it. I tried CBT before but I think I was too stubborn. I just have to live now with being different to most people - I can do chit chit in extremely small doses on such things as the weather, otherwise I need to stay away from people as much as possible.

irishh_bob - You sound narrow minded especially if you haven't done it but I'm narrow minded as well so who I am to say.

open minded is over rated

irishh_bob

Printemps93 wrote: »

Not everyone with Depression has the same outlook as you . some people are born genetically prone to get Depression and some just get it via environmental factors .
I personally dont think a part of you dies .A part of you slows down and begins to search for meaning in life because they are no longer content with being embalmed in a materialistic existence.
Mental Ill Health can be managed reasonably well treated perhaps wasnt the best word I could have used .I don't believe you overcome Depression in a sense , but you do get your life back .
You will always have the memories of that period in your life

i wasnt materialistic before it entered my life , no more than the next 21 year old who had just been overseas on a working holiday down under , depression causes you to think too much , to engage in morbid introspection , this causes you to be less sociable and easy going with others , it makes you doubt yourself and for a man , completley destroys your ego , its a disaster for traditional males as you cannot get back this kind of natural earthy persona once its gone , you dont get your old self back , you get an overly consciensious , semi casterated shell of what you once were , thats why suicide is higher amongts men , they know that the old self is dead and cannot live with the loss , one of the reasons i have depression is because im annoyed with myself for not having had the bottle to have ended it , this makes you feel like an even bigger failure than before , thier is nothing more pathetic than a failed suicide attempt

Printemps93

irishh_bob wrote: »

no one is pre destined to get depression and no one gets depression for no reason , someone or something triggers it

Yeah ,they are !
I didnt say that they get it for no reason

How can you trigger something thats not already there ? (in the case of pre destined cases )

euser1984

flutterflye wrote: »

No, I don't get the impression that irishh_bob is trolling.
I think he/she just has a different view based on his own experiences and observations.
He is not 'wrong' in his views, he just sees things differently.

Ahem...the thread has gone completely off topic.

flutterflye

Lol, yes.

Discussion seems to have gone like this;

Labels,
Aspergers,
Mental illness,
Therapy,
Causation of depression.

I guess they are all relevant to the op though.
In my first post on this thread I was saying how discussing the illness or disorder openly hopefully leads to a deeper understanding of the illness or disorder.
Therefore making it easier for people to accept labels they have been given, or labels of those around them.
Ideally resulting in a society that is no longer afraid or ashamed of labels.

irishh_bob

flutterflye wrote: »

Lol, yes.

Discussion seems to have gone like this;

Labels,
Aspergers,
Mental illness,
Therapy,
Causation of depression.

I guess they are all relevant to the op though.
In my first post on this thread I was saying how discussing the illness or disorder openly hopefully leads to a deeper understanding of the illness or disorder.
Therefore making it easier for people to accept labels they have been given, or labels of those around them.
Ideally resulting in a society that is no longer afraid or ashamed of labels.

im not sure something so personal and unique to each individual can ever be properly understood by the general public , im not sure it needs to be either

robinph

Openly discussing whatever issue it is that you may have will be different depending on the condition, who your discussing with, and who you are.

euser1984

robinph wrote: »

Openly discussing whatever issue it is that you may have will be different depending on the condition, who your discussing with, and who you are.

It makes it difficult though because some you may not want to discuss with yet there perception of you may be very strange. This will lead to paranoia - I think people should know - but it's going to be different with depression as everyone thinks that have that and they do but there just back to normal again after a day or three.

I wonder does the depression they experience differ from actual "clinical depression. Of course constant depression does cripple you ultimately and turns on you more and more.

In the clinic there is dysthymia as well. It's easy with schizophrenia as people don't experience that and are probably afraid of you. Alot of people think there bipolar yet all they did was spend 100 quid on clothes. They haven't proclaimed themselves as Jesus Christ. I did and I still believe it too. The postitive in us is Jesus Christ. Jesus in my mind is just a projection of something abstract - probably developed by "wise men" so most can understand. Mother Teresa could be called Jesus Christ as well. I haven't even got a diagnosis of bipolar and I'm not even sure I have it. If I do have it it would be mild though. David Icke proclaimed that he was Jesus and was ridiculed - he probably doesn't have bipolar and he's not completely loopy - some of the things he's said have become true. So with many mental "illnesses" themselves it may very well be that it's just that our heads are wired to wonder what are all these people at, going to work every day and going to niteclubs getting drunk, having kids, nice car, bigger house than your neighbour with a 40yr mortage. I think society is a matrix because that's the way you manage large amounts of people. Also there may very well be something beyond what our limited five senses allow us to experience, in fact I think we can be pretty sure there is...of course there is radio waves, sattelite waves, sounds outside of our spectrum of hearing. Minds shaped by society.

Psychiatrists give people diagnoses of psuedoscience mental illnesses if there outside of the "norm" just like people are put into prison.

So maybe it's not possible to convince those knobheads but who cares about them anyway. Btw have you seen the new sun glasses Victoria Beckham is wearing this summer? Brainwashing at it's best.

Old days - Religion. Now - Gossip magazines, football players.

I think people say ya he's depressed when they see the sterotypical person, otherwise it's pull yourself together or you just have to be "positive".

Anyway I'm sure Ive missed out on what I'm saying, rambled, went off point, insulted people, didn't get accross my actual thoughts on the likes of depression, belitted depression. I know what suicidal thoughts are like though. Like everyone I have an opinion which is probably not valid as I'm not a professional, probably hasn't been thought through properly. All I know is that I don't so what I'm not drawn right into. Now back to configuring my bitcoin (advertisement - vested interest :pac: ) rig. I've been up for the last 9 days working all day and all through to 3 o clock or so every morning. I hardly ever get interested in this way - work kills me and probably caused by epilepsy. I think a part of my problem is that I was just doing wrong things though that insight did not come easily. Buried in my unconcious. Odd thing the unconcious. Hard to belive that everything is possible and everything has different talents. Tarot cards is something I'm interested in also at the moment. They give you direction which brings out unconcius possibilites. Wow.

Sorry about my rambling post. Was hard to read I'm sure - imagine putting up with that everyday - welcome to ADHD.

irishh_bob

euser1984 wrote: »

It makes it difficult though because some you may not want to discuss with yet there perception of you may be very strange. This will lead to paranoia - I think people should know - but it's going to be different with depression as everyone thinks that have that and they do but there just back to normal again after a day or three.

I wonder does the depression they experience differ from actual "clinical depression. Of course constant depression does cripple you ultimately and turns on you more and more.

In the clinic there is dysthymia as well. It's easy with schizophrenia as people don't experience that and are probably afraid of you. Alot of people think there bipolar yet all they did was spend 100 quid on clothes. They haven't proclaimed themselves as Jesus Christ. I did and I still believe it too. The postitive in us is Jesus Christ. Jesus in my mind is just a projection of something abstract - probably developed by "wise men" so most can understand. Mother Teresa could be called Jesus Christ as well. I haven't even got a diagnosis of bipolar and I'm not even sure I have it. If I do have it it would be mild though. David Icke proclaimed that he was Jesus and was ridiculed - he probably doesn't have bipolar and he's not completely loopy - some of the things he's said have become true. So with many mental "illnesses" themselves it may very well be that it's just that our heads are wired to wonder what are all these people at, going to work every day and going to niteclubs getting drunk, having kids, nice car, bigger house than your neighbour with a 40yr mortage. I think society is a matrix because that's the way you manage large amounts of people. Also there may very well be something beyond what our limited five senses allow us to experience, in fact I think we can be pretty sure there is...of course there is radio waves, sattelite waves, sounds outside of our spectrum of hearing. Minds shaped by society.

Psychiatrists give people diagnoses of psuedoscience mental illnesses if there outside of the "norm" just like people are put into prison.

So maybe it's not possible to convince those knobheads but who cares about them anyway. Btw have you seen the new sun glasses Victoria Beckham is wearing this summer? Brainwashing at it's best.

Old days - Religion. Now - Gossip magazines, football players.

I think people say ya he's depressed when they see the sterotypical person, otherwise it's pull yourself together or you just have to be "positive".

Anyway I'm sure Ive missed out on what I'm saying, rambled, went off point, insulted people, didn't get accross my actual thoughts on the likes of depression, belitted depression. I know what suicidal thoughts are like though. Like everyone I have an opinion which is probably not valid as I'm not a professional, probably hasn't been thought through properly. All I know is that I don't so what I'm not drawn right into. Now back to configuring my bitcoin (advertisement - vested interest :pac: ) rig. I've been up for the last 9 days working all day and all through to 3 o clock or so every morning. I hardly ever get interested in this way - work kills me and probably caused by epilepsy. I think a part of my problem is that I was just doing wrong things though that insight did not come easily. Buried in my unconcious. Odd thing the unconcious. Hard to belive that everything is possible and everything has different talents. Tarot cards is something I'm interested in also at the moment. They give you direction which brings out unconcius possibilites. Wow.

Sorry about my rambling post. Was hard to read I'm sure - imagine putting up with that everyday - welcome to ADHD.

amongst all the clutter , thier are a few pearls in there

Naikon

The information can be used against you just be aware. For instance, try getting a gun licence in an easy manner with severe depression recorded in your file. It's wrong to label an ill person as a "threat" just because they suffer from Depression or whatever. Not to mention that the docs are in bed with the drug companies who produce drugs of very questionable efficacy. Backed by psuedo scientific journal entries, no less.

Due to the fact that Psychiatry makes assumptions about people, it's very hard to prove you aren't sick to these people once they have passed their sometimes flawed judgement. These people are human beings, relying on systems that are not always correct. Misdiagnosis would be a larger issue, due to the general lack of clinical testing. Try telling a cancer patient they have cancer based on subjective obervations alone. Won't wash I am afraid.

Make no mistake, there is clear evidence out there to suggest the profit incentives from trivialisations of typical human traits. This in turn takes resources away from the real problems like Depression, which I might add, is NOT a chemical imbalance problem as told by the media or your doctor even. Don't take any advice without multiple opinions is my best advice. Don't take NO for an answer.

MUSEIST

Naikon wrote: »

The information can be used against you just be aware. For instance, try getting a gun licence in an easy manner with severe depression recorded in your file. It's wrong to label an ill person as a "threat" just because they suffer from Depression or whatever. Not to mention that the docs are in bed with the drug companies who produce drugs of very questionable efficacy. Backed by psuedo scientific journal entries, no less.

Due to the fact that Psychiatry makes assumptions about people, it's very hard to prove you aren't sick to these people once they have passed their sometimes flawed judgement. These people are human beings, relying on systems that are not always correct. Misdiagnosis would be a larger issue, due to the general lack of clinical testing. Try telling a cancer patient they have cancer based on subjective obervations alone. Won't wash I am afraid.

Make no mistake, there is clear evidence out there to suggest the profit incentives from trivialisations of typical human traits. This in turn takes resources away from the real problems like Depression, which I might add, is NOT a chemical imbalance problem as told by the media or your doctor even. Don't take any advice without multiple opinions is my best advice. Don't take NO for an answer.

Have you had a bad experience with the psychiatric profession Naikon? Just wondering why you repetitively have a go at them. You are of course entitled to your own opinion but you seem to be on a crusade against the whole profession. Is there a reson for this?

Naikon

MUSEIST wrote: »

Have you had a bad experience with the psychiatric profession Naikon? Just wondering why you repetitively have a go at them. You are of course entitled to your own opinion but you seem to be on a crusade against the whole profession. Is there a reson for this?

I have known two people who took their lives over poor mental health. The industry tends to present the issue as a mostly chemical one. This is entirely misleading. Depression is more than an illness imo. It's an adaptation of state resulting from variables outside the persons control. People who were abused for instance, did not choose that situation.

Sure, the brain of a depressed person isn't working on the same level as a "normal", but that is not enough to build an industry of drugging based on nothing more than scaremongering. I bet people would be more open about Depression if the scary drug association was removed. Introduce medication, people think something is very wrong, not that it could just be the result of a very tough life situation.

If the industry at large really cared about individuals, why is suicide still a larger cause of death than road deaths? Depression is very real, but I think the diagnosis might be a bit too lucrative to simply pass up as anything less than a chemical problem. The misinformation bothers me, mostly. Just because you are depressed, that does not mean you should be branded for eternity as mentally unstable. Why should you be potentially disadvantaged?

All of the above is in relation to the two people I knew. I feel the system let them down very badly, as most others on this thread know too well I believe.

Printemps93

Naikon wrote: »

I bet people would be more open about Depression if the scary drug association was removed.

I disagree .
drug association maintains a chemical balance , however relying on that chemical balance for the rest of your life is not ideal thats where therapy and coping skills come into play , there is poor emphasis on that .
social stigma associated with Mental Health is very high in this country and that is the reason not enough people are open about their mental difficulties

Naikon

Printemps93 wrote: »

drug association maintains a chemical balance

It's a lie.

Printemps93

Naikon wrote: »

It's a lie.

and you're a scientist who has constructed research into chemical imbalances ?
or are you a student in Neurology?
If you are then I give my apologies

Princess Peach

I was diagnosed with depression years ago and have been on medication and to councelling and very few people know about it. I think people who have never dealt with depression find it hard to understand and don't tend to think of it as an illness. There have been times it has affected my life that I wouldn't tell others about. Especially in work.

I remember being very sick with side effects when I first started my medication. Pretty sure the manager thought I was hungover as I asked for a stool to sit on for dizziness, but I didn't want to tell her the real reason.

I have gone home sick before when feeling down, but would always say I was feeling ill. I can't even imagine the manager's reaction if I rang in sick one morning and told her the reason was I was feeling down. I am sure she would laugh and tell me to get into work.

I scheduled a lot of my councellor appointments for my lunch hour this year, and would have to ask for a specific lunch time on the day. I would always say it was an appointment, never wanted them to know why.

I was supposed to travel abroad last year for college but couldn't because of my depression, and gave the reason that I was sick and had personal problems. I was dreading further questioning on the subject!

I have often missed out on things because of my depression, meeting friends or whatever, but I feel if I tell them this they will think I'm using it as a poor excuse? If I had a more tangible illness like diabetes or epilepsy, I feel they would be more understanding maybe.

I guess aswell I don't want people to treat me differently because of it. I don't want special treatment or to be given an easier time at work. I'm sure the same goes for labeling a lot of illnesses. I had a friend when I was a child who had diabetes, and I had asthma. We were in the same scout group and always got treated like we might die at any minute. On hikes we had to stay behind the rest of the groups and always stay with the leaders.

Naikon

Printemps93 wrote: »

and you're a scientist who has constructed research into chemical imbalances ?
or are you a student in Neurology?
If you are then I give my apologies

I am not ignorant enough to presume the explanations don't exist, it's just we don't know much about the etiology of Depression.

Here is an interesting article though. I would tend to trust Neuroscience over Psychiatry. Psychiatry is jumping the gun by selling drugs with very questionable efficacy.

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2008/07/06/head_fake/?page=full

Where is the basis for this "chemical imbalance"?

Printemps93

Naikon wrote: »

I would tend to trust Neuroscience over Psychiatry. Psychiatry is jumping the gun by selling drugs with very questionable efficacy.

some of the physical symptoms
are treated with antidepressants . the rest is down to the individual
It's like learning to try ride a bike again with stabilizers .
If you have some of the physical symptoms you cant even try to learn to ride the bike .
You cant make yourself feel better If you are physically lacking the energy and motivation to even get up out of bed .
Plus they work for people ,studies have proved this . Some well known actors admit they would not be able to get out of bed without their SSRI

irishh_bob

Princess Peach wrote: »

I was diagnosed with depression years ago and have been on medication and to councelling and very few people know about it. I think people who have never dealt with depression find it hard to understand and don't tend to think of it as an illness. There have been times it has affected my life that I wouldn't tell others about. Especially in work.

I remember being very sick with side effects when I first started my medication. Pretty sure the manager thought I was hungover as I asked for a stool to sit on for dizziness, but I didn't want to tell her the real reason.

I have gone home sick before when feeling down, but would always say I was feeling ill. I can't even imagine the manager's reaction if I rang in sick one morning and told her the reason was I was feeling down. I am sure she would laugh and tell me to get into work.

I scheduled a lot of my councellor appointments for my lunch hour this year, and would have to ask for a specific lunch time on the day. I would always say it was an appointment, never wanted them to know why.

I was supposed to travel abroad last year for college but couldn't because of my depression, and gave the reason that I was sick and had personal problems. I was dreading further questioning on the subject!

I have often missed out on things because of my depression, meeting friends or whatever, but I feel if I tell them this they will think I'm using it as a poor excuse? If I had a more tangible illness like diabetes or epilepsy, I feel they would be more understanding maybe.

I guess aswell I don't want people to treat me differently because of it. I don't want special treatment or to be given an easier time at work. I'm sure the same goes for labeling a lot of illnesses. I had a friend when I was a child who had diabetes, and I had asthma. We were in the same scout group and always got treated like we might die at any minute. On hikes we had to stay behind the rest of the groups and always stay with the leaders.

we live in a culture now a days where telling everything about yourself ( warts and all ) is heavily encouraged , i dont buy into this , i think by opening up about yourself too much , you leave yourself exposed , a sizeable number of people will sieze upon percieved weakness and use it against you , by keeping your weakness largely to yourself , you maintain a degree of control over the situation and can content yourself from the fact that should you ever completley overcome the depression , no one will have been any the wiser , public info lasts forever and forever reminds you

Printemps93

irishh_bob wrote: »

by opening up about yourself too much , you leave yourself exposed , a sizeable number of people will sieze upon percieved weakness and use it against you .

Agree 100%

mw9121970

Printemps93 wrote: »

Agree 100%

But I think that there are circumstances where problems need to be discussed so that help and support can be made available.
A spouse trying to deal with the mental illness (which included delusions) of their partner, ended up taking his own life. He tried to hide it because he thought that he was the only one who could understand her. He loved her very much but the situation was worsening and he felt he could'nt protect her. But when it comes to mental health I think that it is dangerous to box situations into labels as I think this leads to misunderstanding.