Financial Fair Play Discussion

PHB

Blatter wrote: »

Yep, if they sanction any of the big clubs, the threat of the G14 creating their own league will loom larger.

I must say, I think this is the exact opposite.

These sort of money bag owners represent a threat to the establishment, not a part of it.

United want FPP. So do Arsenal. So do Barca. So do Liverpool. So do Milan afaik. Chelsea even want it.

The historic clubs want it locked in. They were part of the reason FPP got through.

PHB

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

Of course they will But FIFA arent going to upset powerful clubs are they?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/gabriele_marcotti/05/05/ffp/index.html

http://www.dailyfinance.co.uk/2011/02/02/why-chelsea-s-losses-count-as-profit/

Those are phasing arrangements. They won't be able to do that once the rules are in place, indeed the very fact that they are doing this indicates they expect the rules to be enforced.

MUSEIST

PHB wrote: »

I must say, I think this is the exact opposite.

These sort of money bag owners represent a threat to the establishment, not a part of it.

United want FPP. So do Arsenal. So do Barca. So do Liverpool. So do Milan afaik. Chelsea even want it.

The historic clubs want it locked in. They were part of the reason FPP got through.

Yep, I remember platini saying that he had spoken to abramovich about this and he was in favour of its introduction

Discodog

MUSEIST wrote: »

Yep, I remember platini saying that he had spoken to abramovich about this and he was in favour of its introduction

Of course he said that because he will be confident of finding ways around it. Did he sign Torres before or after that conversation ? Chelsea have spent 68 million on managers ! You can see the difference that it is making to the market. Barca have to seriously limit spending this year as do many other clubs. City have a car boot sale going on with no takers & are dreaming of getting 50m for Tevez when no one has money to spend. No club has rushed to buy Sanchez - except City & he didn't want them.

The likes of Mansour & Roman are not used to having people tell them what to do. There are plenty of clubs that hate the effect that these people have had on football. I believe that the FPP regs will have to be enforced otherwise there will be a mutiny from the clubs who play by the rules.

messinkiapina

With what's happening at Monaco at the moment, and what will probably continue at clubs like PSG, Man City and Chelsea, is it fair to say that the FPP rules have made no difference whatsoever?

dreamers75

messinkiapina wrote: »

With what's happening at Monaco at the moment, and what will probably continue at clubs like PSG, Man City and Chelsea, is it fair to say that the FPP rules have made no difference whatsoever?

Forced clubs to be creative with income, 500 million for stadium sponsorship etc

Munich beat Dortmund in CL final after disposing of Real/barca FFP will work but clubs being run right will always be there or thereabouts.

kippy

Probably a good time to review this, as it's almost two years since I started the thread.
FFP - made absolutely no difference so far. If anything Chelsea are spending more money and City are most likely going on a major spree over the summer.

AdamD

messinkiapina wrote: »

With what's happening at Monaco at the moment, and what will probably continue at clubs like PSG, Man City and Chelsea, is it fair to say that the FPP rules have made no difference whatsoever?

Was under the impression FFP only mattered if you were in a European competition?

messinkiapina

AdamD wrote: »

Was under the impression FFP only mattered if you were in a European competition?

I think you're right, but if Monaco qualify for it next year, surely the spending they did this year should effect their eligibility? Or at least that's what you'd expect from it, if the rules are worth anything at all.

Seaneh

If FFP is ever enforced properly, Milan and Juventus will be laughing at the likes of City, PSG, Chelsea and even Barcelona and Real for not taking it seriously.

If it isn't, Milan and Juventus will have done a lot of work over the last few years for nothing.

Donnielighto

have milan and juve done anything in particular or are they just being sensible if so then id lump utd and the ze germans in with them for that. mind you utd went a way that most teams cant by leveraging their worldwide appeal into megabucks

Seaneh

Donnielighto wrote: »

have milan and juve done anything in particular or are they just being sensible if so then id lump utd and the ze germans in with them for that. mind you utd went a way that most teams cant by leveraging their worldwide appeal into megabucks

Juve built their new stadium and implemented a strict wage structure and limit. Milan expanded their commercial activities, in the US, Asia and Africa and cut their wage bill massively and brought in massive transfer fees for players. Both will break even this year for the first time in god knows how long.

Giggsy11

Seaneh wrote: »

If FFP is ever enforced properly, Milan and Juventus will be laughing at the likes of City, PSG, Chelsea and even Barcelona and Real for not taking it seriously.

If it isn't, Milan and Juventus will have done a lot of work over the last few years for nothing.

Real won't have any problems with FFP. They make profits every year and their wages to turnover ration is around 50% which is well below FFP guidelines.

Seaneh

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Real won't have any problems with FFP. They make profits every year and their wages to turnover ration is around 50% which is well below FFP guidelines.

What about their massive debt?

Giggsy11

Seaneh wrote: »

What about their massive debt?

Debt is not an issue in FFP. It's about spend what you earn and keep wages within 70% of the turn over.

GavRedKing

Well FFP will catch up with us some way unless we have some clever way of investing money into naming rights or sponsorship for training gear or something.

Our stadium and match day income is nowhere near the top clubs in England let alone Europe and as long as we're at the Bridge in its current 42k capacity our revenue streams for match days is going to be nowhere near Arsenal or Utd.

Flip side of that is we cant build on the current site, unless we knock the stadium and find a temporary home and we cant move away from Stamford Brideg as the CPO hold the rights to the ground so if wanted to relocate theyed have to pass a motion allowing it.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

I'm disappointed with how it has turned out, it's a metaphorical stillborn.

The best thing that could ever happen to European football is if the 3 foreigner rule is somehow okayed through the European courts and is brought back for European club football competition. Your Real Madrids, PSGs, Chelseas etc would be forced to purchase talent from within their own country, which would lessen their quality and lessen the gap in quality between them and the B list and C list teams.

jester77

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

I'm disappointed with how it has turned out, it's a metaphorical stillborn.

The best thing that could ever happen to European football is if the 3 foreigner rule is somehow okayed through the European courts and is brought back for European club football competition. Your Real Madrids, PSGs, Chelseas etc would be forced to purchase talent from within their own country, which would lessen their quality and lessen the gap in quality between them and the B list and C list teams.

Will never happen because of the EU's freedom of movement. Anyone born within the EU is entitled to work in any EU country, no different for a footballer born within the EU.

messinkiapina

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

I'm disappointed with how it has turned out, it's a metaphorical stillborn.

The best thing that could ever happen to European football is if the 3 foreigner rule is somehow okayed through the European courts and is brought back for European club football competition. Your Real Madrids, PSGs, Chelseas etc would be forced to purchase talent from within their own country, which would lessen their quality and lessen the gap in quality between them and the B list and C list teams.

I'd love to see that happen, but can't imagine it ever will. English clubs would be in huge trouble of course, in the short term. Spain would continue to be very strong, Germany might be okay. Countries like France, Holland, Portugal and Italy would benefit greatly I think. It would make everything way more competitive.

GavRedKing

If the 3 foreginer rule came back the British teams would be royaled screwed for a while.

The academies arent producing good enough players, well not at the rate of their foreign counterparts, I suppose they dont have to as trhe lure of playing in England coupled with good money is usually enough to lure away the brightest of overseas talent.

Seaneh

Bring back 3 foreigner rule, I wholly welcome it.

Milan would only need to sign 1 player 2 centre backs and 1 (ok 2) centre mid to make up a good starting 11 :P

GavRedKing

Chelsea team wouldnt be too bad, not great though.

Turnbull
Hutchinson Terry Cahill Cole
Mcechran Chalobah
Moses Lamps Bertrand
Bamford

smoking_kills

Seaneh wrote: »

Bring back 3 foreigner rule, I wholly welcome it.

Milan would only need to sign 1 player 2 centre backs and 1 (ok 2) centre mid to make up a good starting 11 :P

It wont happen, the Bosman ruling would have to be overturned....

"The Bosman ruling also prohibited domestic football leagues in EU member states, and also UEFA, from imposing quotas on foreign players to the extent that they discriminated against nationals of EU states........ After the ruling, quotas could still be imposed, but could only be used to restrict the number of non-EU players on each team."

Seaneh

I know.

smoking_kills

Seaneh wrote: »

I know.

Just checking

DoctorGonzo08

GavRedKing wrote: »

Chelsea team wouldnt be too bad, not great though.

Turnbull
Hutchinson Terry Cahill Cole
Mcechran Chalobah
Moses Lamps Bertrand
Bamford

Not overly bad City team either.

Hart
Wabara Richards Lescott Bridge
Milner Rodwell Barry Sinclair
Bunn Nimely

Seaneh

Milan's all Italian team is it was to happen tomorrow.

Abbiati

Abate Bonera Zaccardo Di Sciglio

Nocerino Ambrosini Montolivo

Balotelli Pazzini El Shaarawy


Not too bad, weak point being the centrebacks.

Jules.Winnfield

Utd would have,

Amos
Smalling Ferdinand Jones Keane (Evans??)
Young Carrick Cleverley Zaha
Welbeck Rooney

Powell on the bench as well

Not bad!

gnfnrhead

Arsenal gives one fcuked up formation without new signings!

---

Shea
Jenkinson

---

Gibbs

---

Yennaris -- Eastmond

---

Ramsey
---- Wilshere

---

Henderson
Walcott

---

Chamberlain

---

Afobe

Strong enough core to the team but after that it's unproven.

Rayne Wooney

Are gifts not income?

For example if the sheikh gave City a £1 billion gift would it count as income?

Red Crow

Financial Fair Play is a load of sh1t tbh. What's to stop one of Abramovich's companies from sponsoring Chelsea £1Bn to put their name on the toilet seats in Stamford Bridge?

A spending cap has to be brought in. No way can teams sustain these wages. Also UEFA need to introduce it as the EPL or La Liga know that if the introduce it in a single league a mass exodus will follow.

Restrict spending on player transfers each season and introduce a wage cap. However, players that spend 3 plus years at the academy of that club are not restricted ie Xavi could be paid 250k a week and it would not count against the cap. This will allow for better development of youth players but also increase players staying at their clubs.

FFP is a dead duck and its not even introduced yet.

Jules.Winnfield

I don't always agree with what Eli has to say, but I agree for the most part on this. I think a UEFA wide salary cap needs to come in, but I really like the homegrown player part to encourage youth development

The only fear is would then the pull of the Middle East and leagues there be too much for most players... It will be hard to knock Europe off the top spot as a football destination

Richard Hillman

Eli Manning wrote: »

Financial Fair Play is a load of sh1t tbh. What's to stop one of Abramovich's companies from sponsoring Chelsea £1Bn to put their name on the toilet seats in Stamford Bridge?

A spending cap has to be brought in. No way can teams sustain these wages. Also UEFA need to introduce it as the EPL or La Liga know that if the introduce it in a single league a mass exodus will follow.

Restrict spending on player transfers each season and introduce a wage cap. However, players that spend 3 plus years at the academy of that club are not restricted ie Xavi could be paid 250k a week and it would not count against the cap. This will allow for better development of youth players but also increase players staying at their clubs.

FFP is a dead duck and its not even introduced yet.

The trafficking of underage footballers is bad enough now a days but your proposed system would make it completely ruthless. Swiping kids off the streets of Rio and Abidjan would be essential for the big clubs.

Red Crow

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The trafficking of underage footballers is bad enough now a days but your proposed system would make it completely ruthless. Swiping kids off the streets of Rio and Abidjan would be essential for the big clubs.

And? More funding would go into the development of underage kids. I'm guessing you've never been to Rio. Football is the ONLY way out for some people.

It'd be an easy system to police anyway. You could cap the number of non-Europeans in the academy.

gosplan

Eli Manning wrote: »

Financial Fair Play is a load of sh1t tbh. What's to stop one of Abramovich's companies from sponsoring Chelsea £1Bn to put their name on the toilet seats in Stamford Bridge?

A spending cap has to be brought in. No way can teams sustain these wages. Also UEFA need to introduce it as the EPL or La Liga know that if the introduce it in a single league a mass exodus will follow.

Restrict spending on player transfers each season and introduce a wage cap. However, players that spend 3 plus years at the academy of that club are not restricted ie Xavi could be paid 250k a week and it would not count against the cap. This will allow for better development of youth players but also increase players staying at their clubs.

FFP is a dead duck and its not even introduced yet.

Yeah but it's funnelling things in a particular way. Now they need to figure out how to limit unfair sponsorship deals and they're nearly there.

It was never going to just come in and work perfectly, it's a gradual process and you can expect the big clubs to find work arounds and try and make the playing field as unfair as possible.

DoctorGonzo08

The only way that the FFP could be implemented as a useful improvement is if they introduced a salary cap, like in the Major league. Allowing teams to give 'gifts' or ridiculous self sponsorship from the owners, or allowing the big clubs to have massive debt is never going to solve anything.

Cap the wages at the club will force teams to structure correctly. Transfer costs will fall in line too. It will also encourage youth development as you will need smaller contracts to balance the squad.

kippy

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

The only way that the FFP could be implemented as a useful improvement is if they introduced a salary cap, like in the Major league. Allowing teams to give 'gifts' or ridiculous self sponsorship from the owners, or allowing the big clubs to have massive debt is never going to solve anything.

Cap the wages at the club will force teams to structure correctly. Transfer costs will fall in line too. It will also encourage youth development as you will need smaller contracts to balance the squad.

The thing is, outside of other issues with salary caps, they can be circumvented as well, unless they exist in a strict set of overall financial rules.

Pro. F

Sponsorship from rich owners is accounted for in the FFP rules. Sponsorship deals that are above market value will not be counted as income.

Red Crow

What's to stop Man City selling 3 seats in the ground for 10 Mil each? There are always ways around unless UEFA are going to audit each clubs accounts extensively.

Pro. F

Eli Manning wrote: »

What's to stop Man City selling 3 seats in the ground for 10 Mil each? There are always ways around unless UEFA are going to audit each clubs accounts extensively.

I think property sales are treated the same way as sponsorship, so market value again. But I can't say for definite because I'm going on memory here. And afaik it is UEFA's plan to audit each club's accounts before letting them into their competitions.

Also, I think it's your pick in the draft.

Richard Hillman

Eli Manning wrote: »

What's to stop Man City selling 3 seats in the ground for 10 Mil each? There are always ways around unless UEFA are going to audit each clubs accounts extensively.

Or City hold an auction for a signed Jersey on the website. Sheikh Mansours brother puts a successful bid of 100 million in for it. Sheikh Mansour being the top guy that he is, also gives his brother 100 million quid as a birthday present.

skippy15

Liverpool english player team would be fairly strong-

Jones
Johnson Kelly wisdom
Henderson Allen shelvey Gerrard
Downing Sterling
Sturidge

Red Crow

skippy15 wrote: »

Liverpool english player team would be fairly strong-

Jones
Johnson Kelly wisdom
Henderson Allen shelvey Gerrard
Downing Sterling
Sturidge

That's a pretty rubbish side tbh. Allen is Welsh too.

GLaDOS

skippy15 wrote: »

Liverpool english player team would be fairly strong-

Jones
Johnson Kelly wisdom
Henderson Allen shelvey Gerrard
Downing Sterling
Sturidge

Jones is an Aussie

tvercetti

Edit: Beaten to it ^^

kryogen

skippy15 wrote: »

Liverpool english player team would be fairly strong-

Jones
Johnson Kelly wisdom
Henderson Allen shelvey Gerrard
Downing Sterling
Sturidge

:pac::D

messinkiapina

Eli Manning wrote: »

That's a pretty rubbish side tbh. Allen is Welsh too.

Rubbish by current PL standards, but compared with what other PL teams could put out if limited to British players, it would be fairly competitive I think.

klose

skippy15 wrote: »

Liverpool english player team would be fairly strong-

Jones
Johnson Kelly wisdom
Henderson Allen shelvey Gerrard
Downing Sterling
Sturidge

As posted above allen and jones are foreign, weve no english keepers atall unless you dip way into the academy. Its an average team but atleast we could technically field a passable team

---

x
Flannagan-wisdom-kelly-johnson

---

gerrard---henderson
Downing

---

shelvey----sterling

---

sturridge

Flanagan is horrendous, kelly and wisdom are shoe horned into cb. Shelvey is piss, downing is distinctly average at best.


Anyways ffp is goosed...

user2011

I call for a limit on the amount of foreign fans who can follow each team.

:pac::D

Foreign fans looking too limit the amount of foreign players at the clubs they follow :pac:

skippy15

klose wrote: »

Flanagan is horrendous, kelly and wisdom are shoe horned into cb. Shelvey is piss, downing is distinctly average at best.


Anyways ffp is goosed...

id put robinson ahead of flanagan, and looks like spearing as a GK.

LOL my bad on Jones, but team is as competitive an English team as is out there, at least in Mid and attacking wise