Frank Duffy 10m - 20/08/2011

SnappyDresser

2 stars (poor)

The course was very very poor. Where are the famed hills on the course????? A few small hills...come on...the course should be a real test...should be tough and take in the toughest parts of the Phoenix Park with as many of the hard hills as possible. To make it a watered down flat fast course seems to be because some people want flat courses...well why run if all you want is a flat course...bring back the hills and make it a real test...Frank Duffy would spin in his grave...he did some jaw dropping runs in the park. He would not want a watered down 10 miler in his name...very disappointed in course...it meant that the course was totally conjested...bring back the hills!!!!!!!

Oisin11178

PVincent wrote: »

Didnt run this race today but a mate of mine did and lost 45 secs in the first mile. People are way to quick to give these races 5 stars. People starting in the wrong wave is a major issue. Maybe as someone has already said use the system that the womns mini marathon uses and assign people waves.

Was not able to run today but went along to support. Great atmosphere. To be fair to ANY race organisers , there is sod all they can do to prevent people going into the wrong Zone. Any biggish race that I have ever done, the first half mile/sometimes mile is usually slower because of congestion . There is no way to avoid it . Even if the roads are wider there will still be blockages . The admin involved in having to produce a cert to get into a 'top zone' would be far to time consuming for the organisers.

Ive done races with far bigger fields than today and ive never had as much trouble as most people had today. There is things hey can do. Colour coded numbers for waves is a start. As far the admin being time consuming, the biggest road race by a long way in Ireland is the womens mini marathon with about 40,000 i think and they use this sytem. I love these absolutes people bandy about, there is nothing the organisers could have done. How do you know this for a fact. Im not saying this isnt a good race because it obviously is but it can improve.

oedipod

My experience in the 5 was so bad that I decided to elbow my way past a few punters in the waiting area so that I was nearer the front of wave 1. This eliminated a lot of the exasperation I felt running through plodders during the 5.

Weather was stunning today and perfect for the distance.

Plastic fold-u-like cups not ideal at the water stations. Definite negative. Almost useless if you were all out.

Earphones on sensible people are no problem imho. Earphones on idiots just exaggerate the underlying personality traits. Whadya gonna do?

The turn at the Cheshire home was badly managed, otherwise they were ok.

Have to say the biggest shock today is that onlookers were shouting for club members as they went past, or people they knew, rather than just encouragement for randomers. It seems as soon as people are put in a competitive environment they lose the sense of what it's all about.

Ran it in 62:57. Happy enough with that. Small improvement on 31:57 for the 5. As this was my first 5 and 10 race respectively I have been pretty happy with times and progression. Wonder about sub 1:22 for the half and sub-3 for the full (my first)? Any opinions? Walter Mitty?

6:35, 6:06, 6:02, 6:09, 6:21, 6:27, 6:19, 6:16, 6:05, 6:32.

O.

Stark

i008787 wrote: »

The course was very very poor. Where are the famed hills on the course????? A few small hills...come on...the course should be a real test...should be tough and take in the toughest parts of the Phoenix Park with as many of the hard hills as possible. To make it a watered down flat fast course seems to be because some people want flat courses...well why run if all you want is a flat course...bring back the hills and make it a real test...Frank Duffy would spin in his grave...he did some jaw dropping runs in the park. He would not want a watered down 10 miler in his name...very disappointed in course...it meant that the course was totally conjested...bring back the hills!!!!!!!

So go run a hill run if you want hills. The likes of IMRA have loads of them. I'm not sure why anyone would run one of these events unless they wanted a fast time. It's not like say a BHAA, IMRA or cross country race where you've some hope of knowing other people in the field and can race against the man rather than the clock.

Oisin11178 wrote:

Ive done races with far bigger fields than today and ive never had as much trouble as most people had today. There is things hey can do. Colour coded numbers for waves is a start. As far the admin being time consuming, the biggest road race by a long way in Ireland is the womens mini marathon with about 40,000 i think and they use this sytem. I love these absolutes people bandy about, there is nothing the organisers could have done. How do you know this for a fact. Im not saying this isnt a good race because it obviously is but it can improve.

I'm not sure if the mini marathon is a good example. I've heard it's quite possible to run a good race if you get yourself an elite start (many women have run sub-35) but speaking to most middle of the field runners, they've said they were stuck walking for most of the race on account of the congestion.

I've done Ballycotton 10 a few times and it was the same story. I was told to go to the front of the sub-60 zone to have any hope of a decent start (and I'm not a sub-60 10 miler) and still ended up behind slow people for the first mile. I guess it's like the Irish thing of having to say meet at 8 to have some hope of people showing up at 9.

I did notice from looking at the race instructions (didn't do the 10 mile this year, have entered the half marathon with work colleagues though) that they've dropped the whole parking/showers/tea/cake thing in Castleknock college. That's pretty poor imo. Pretty much pushes it over the line from having some pretence at being a well organised friendly race to being yet another milk people for as much cash as possible commercial event.

Stark

oedipod wrote: »

Ran it in 62:57. Happy enough with that. Small improvement on 31:57 for the 5.

That's a huge improvement taking into account having to sustain the pace over twice the distance. Well done.

28064212

i008787 wrote: »

The course was very very poor. Where are the famed hills on the course????? A few small hills...come on...the course should be a real test...should be tough and take in the toughest parts of the Phoenix Park with as many of the hard hills as possible. To make it a watered down flat fast course seems to be because some people want flat courses...well why run if all you want is a flat course...bring back the hills and make it a real test...Frank Duffy would spin in his grave...he did some jaw dropping runs in the park. He would not want a watered down 10 miler in his name...very disappointed in course...it meant that the course was totally conjested...bring back the hills!!!!!!!

What hills? The only hills that were missed out were the Kyber and the Lower Glen. And given that the south part of Acres isn't normally included and the difference between Military - Kyber vs Military - Wellington - Chesterfield is negligible, there wasn't much difference in the total "hills". If anything, while there might have been less steep hills, there were more long, slog hills

Was pretty happy with today. Great improvement on last year - 95 down to just under 85. Was only expecting sub 90. Had a great kick from the turn on to Acres. Main thing I wanted from my kick was for no-one to pass me out after I started, and no-one did, great feeling The only thing I disliked this year was that the water stations were at 3.5 and 6.5 instead of 2.5 and 7 as indicated in the map. Only a 3-mile gap instead of 4.5 miles. Plus, the half-mile markers were a bit distracting, it was hard to tell which was which. Oh, and I got sunburnt to hell

For anyone who's interested, you can get a permanent link to your time by appending your race number to this URL:

http://dublinmarathon.ie/results.php?race=33&search=1&number=

28064212

Oh, and the organisers should be doing a lot more to segragate the waves correctly. I was wave 2, and all I saw today was 1 small sign for ">85, <105". And I only saw that after I was in wave 2. Around about the 1/1.5 mile mark, I passed out 3 "runners" from drogheda & district athletics club. Obviously started in wave 1, should have been in wave 3. Completely oblivious to the people around them.

The organisers have virtually everyone's email address. On Wednesday, they should have sent out an email solely about how the waves work. On the day, they should have had massive signs every 10m along the waves specifying what time was to be expected if you were there. They managed to have plenty of "lotto fun" signs along the route, it should have been very easy to have "If you expect to get under 85 minutes, start here. Otherwise, please continue to move back" signs all along wave 1.

Even more ideally, wave 3 should be the easiest to get to i.e. almost right at the front, but waves 1 and 2 are brought ahead at the start of the race. The majority of people that start in wave 1 even though they expect 105+ aren't there because they're delusional or ignorant, they're there because they don't know any better.

RayCun

3 stars (average)

dernipper wrote: »

Predicted 86 min ...,,,, started middle of wave 1 and it was a joke but short of using a cattle prod (joke) not sure what the organisers can do.

:rolleyes:

daymobrew

3 stars (average)

Stark wrote: »

they've dropped the whole parking/showers/tea/cake thing in Castleknock college. That's pretty poor imo.

That was changed 2 or 3 years ago and people have managed. It got me off my lazy ass and now I cycle the 4 miles right to the start line.

The organisers have virtually everyone's email address. On Wednesday, they should have sent out an email solely about how the waves work. On the day, they should have had massive signs every 10m along the waves specifying what time was to be expected if you were there. They managed to have

good idea. Maybe after the race they could email those that were in the wrong wave.

After the 5 they published the numbers in each wave.

copacetic

4 stars (good)

28064212 wrote: »

Oh, and the organisers should be doing a lot more to segragate the waves correctly. I was wave 2, and all I saw today was 1 small sign for ">85, <105". And I only saw that after I was in wave 2. Around about the 1/1.5 mile mark, I passed out 3 "runners" from drogheda & district athletics club. Obviously started in wave 1, should have been in wave 3. Completely oblivious to the people around them.

I started just ahead of a group of about 10 runners from this club in wave 1, they all came over the barrier together but it was obvious that at best one or two of the ten had any chance of getting near 85 mins. As the race started they held up the whole left hand side of the road and didn't seem to care in the slightest.

madon

Well done all that did this yesterday.

chinguetti

2 stars (poor)

As said earlier, i started near the back of Wave 1. There was no visible signs telling people down the middle/back of the wave saying what wave you were in. People walked a hundred yards down beyond the start line and assumsed they were in wave 2 and jumped in as they didn't know any better. I had to move up the wave when i saw how bad it was.

Emailing people is a good idea but a few more signs and guys with megaphones telling people where to go at points would be handy too and easily done.

Runners who haven't run in big races before can't be blamed outright for been in the wrong wave, the organisers share the blame too as they organise the race and they know that alot of people running are new to running mass events or even races.

jack presley

3 stars (average)

Some people just don't get the whole wave idea. I don't know if they choose to ignore them or they are just thick. You could put up hundreds of signs and you'll still have the same problem. I passed two middle aged women walking in the 1st wave. Did they seriously think they were in the right spot to start?

aigster

For me a good day, 72,. I think where I was doubting myself for 85..some strange complaints ... Not eneogh hills... Too many...you entered?!! ....
Waves... Well I was way back in hindsite but I didn't find it too hard to move up, use of elbow occasionally required.. Gently!
A good day , an easy course( it's all relative)..
Some positivity please...!!

Drexl Spivey

I would have preferred bottles as opposed to plastic cups. I assume they did this on purpose so they only have cups around the water station but for runners it is a pain.

RacoonQueen

Stark wrote: »

I did notice from looking at the race instructions (didn't do the 10 mile this year, have entered the half marathon with work colleagues though) that they've dropped the whole parking/showers/tea/cake thing in Castleknock college. That's pretty poor imo. Pretty much pushes it over the line from having some pretence at being a well organised friendly race to being yet another milk people for as much cash as possible commercial event.

Castleknock College thing stopped years ago, 2009 I think was the first year they stopped doing it. The races outgrew Castleknock College - it's a shame actually, the series was so much better in 07/08 than it is now even if it was a bit of a pain in the ass to get to Castleknock to pick up your number.

chinguetti wrote: »

Runners who haven't run in big races before can't be blamed outright for been in the wrong wave, the organisers share the blame too as they organise the race and they know that alot of people running are new to running mass events or even races.

See, this is what I don't get. When I ran my first race (5 miler 2007) I positioned myself down towards the back as I knew that is where I would be, and I was right. I was in the last 300 or so finishers. The majority of people know damn well they're starting too close to the front. It's the bloody Irish mentality of not wanting to be at the back of the wave so you can get over the start line quicker, god forbid you're last over the start line. :rolleyes:

Coloir coded numbers or pens in numerical order based on predicted finish time like in the marathon are the only way to try and help this really. Dun Laoghaire 10k had the pens in numerical order based on predicted finish time.

Muff Richardson

oedipod wrote: »

Have to say the biggest shock today is that onlookers were shouting for club members as they went past, or people they knew, rather than just encouragement for randomers. It seems as soon as people are put in a competitive environment they lose the sense of what it's all about.

ah for the love of.... if people spot a loved one, someone they know or a fellow club member and want to cheer them on by their name what the feckin hell harm is that, they've gone out on the day to support and if they want to shout support at a passing st. johns ambulance or whatever else it may be they've earned it. they are probably clapping and shouting support for others too ye know as soon as that person has gone by and support is support whatever it may be and for whoever it is a positive, kind and helpful gesture. "biggest shock" ? <mod snip>

had a brilliant day, congratulations to all and thanks so much to all the volunteers, officials, marshalls and for everyone that showed up to support and cheer on see you at the half,

Muff.

spanx

3 stars (average)

oedipod wrote: »

Earphones on sensible people are no problem imho. Earphones on idiots just exaggerate the underlying personality traits. Whadya gonna do?

Well put.

oedipod wrote: »

Ran it in 62:57. Wonder about sub 1:22 for the half and sub-3 for the full (my first)? Any opinions? Walter Mitty?

That's great. I'm signing up for my first marathon this year too. Aiming for a slightly more modest time of 3:30-4:00.

menoscemo

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Coloir coded numbers or pens in numerical order based on predicted finish time like in the marathon are the only way to try and help this really. Dun Laoghaire 10k had the pens in numerical order based on predicted finish time.

This!
As the people to fill in a predicted finishing time when entering the race then give them a colour based on that time and enforce the pens strictly. Pretty simple system and one they use for the Dublin marathon itself (pretty successfully).

jack presley

3 stars (average)

If they brought in colour coded numbers, people would just lie on their application forms. Even the walkers would put down 'sub 85' so they could get to the front.

menoscemo

jack presley wrote: »

If they brought in colour coded numbers, people would just lie on their application forms. Even the walkers would put down 'sub 85' so they could get to the front.

I don't think so. You don't have to link it to any talk of wave starts, you don't even mention wave starts in the application. To most newbie runners it wouldn't even occur to them to lie because they have no idea there'll be wave starts. There should probably be an extra wave as well, say sub 70 for the first wave in the 10 miler, sub 35 in the 5 miler. (maybe you could think about asking for a proof of time to enter these waves only).
This system works well in most marathons across the world including DCM, as RQ pointed out it even worked very well in the recent Dunlaoghaire 10k.

RayCun

3 stars (average)

I don't think that it would work. As long as people have to walk past the first wave to get to where they should be, and as long as they can just hop over the fence to get in, they will do. Half the people in the first wave, if you'd asked them they would have said they'd finish outside 85 minutes, but no-one was asking them.
the Dun Laoghaire 10k had 500 entrants, the mini-marathon pens people up for an hour before the start.

liamog

3 stars (average)

Set off too quick after calculating my target time wrong for some reason thought I was aiming at 75 Mins instead of 80. Kept it up for the first 5k but then calves really started to tighten after Thursdays VFF run.

I enjoyed the course and the day was lovely, I really like the purple t-shirt and hopefully it won't run like the white and green one has.

I agree with the comments re the waves, I wasn't too bad as I started in a good place in wave 1. The DLR Bay 10k had a great system and whilst people can lie on the application form I don't think as many people would be in the wrong wave.

Finished the race with a chip tine of 80:22 so a little disappointed but I know why I went wrong and have learnt (by accident) that positive splitting is a terrible idea.

menoscemo

RayCun wrote: »

I don't think that it would work. As long as people have to walk past the first wave to get to where they should be, and as long as they can just hop over the fence to get in, they will do. Half the people in the first wave, if you'd asked them they would have said they'd finish outside 85 minutes, but no-one was asking them.
the Dun Laoghaire 10k had 500 entrants, the mini-marathon pens people up for an hour before the start.

The problem is enforcement.
It would work if it were enforced properly. I would like to think that good marshalling and some amount of peer pressure (the few people in the wave with the wrong colour would be somewhat hounded by the other runners).

You know this works well in DCM Ray. There is no way they let you in the sub 3.30 pen if you do not have the sub 3.30 colour. Can't see why it is not worth a try in the race series too.

RayCun

3 stars (average)

They let me in the sub 4.15 pen last year with a 4.15+ colour - I didn't see any enforcement at all.

I'll volunteer now to be the guy walking along the edge of the first wave next year shouting "You! Yes, you with the iPhone! Get the **** out of there! And you fatties :mad::mad: ... oi! GAA top! That goes for you too!"

menoscemo

RayCun wrote: »

They let me in the sub 4.15 pen last year with a 4.15+ colour - I didn't see any enforcement at all.

I'll volunteer now to be the guy walking along the edge of the first wave next year shouting "You! Yes, you with the iPhone! Get the **** out of there! And you fatties :mad::mad: ... oi! GAA top! That goes for you too!"

They deifinitely enforced the top wave, there was only one entrance and orange (I think) bibs were only let in.

I filled out in my application that I was gonna run 4hrs in barecelona as I was planning a training run, decided last minute to go for sub 3'30 but there is no way they would let me in the wave above. I know they even stopped Oisin11178 moving back a wave (he had put down sub 3 in his application form but decided to go for sub 3'10 and wanted to run with a few others in that wave behind).
The above can be a pain but is definitely for the greater good of the race. As I say all it takes is some enforcement.

Buck

3 stars (average)

As with so many others, this was my first 10 mile race and I really enjoyed it. Started in the middle of wave 2 and nothing can really explain the feeling you get when passing people along the way. I started at the back of wave 1 in the 5 mile race and it was demotivating being passed by the runners from wave 2. I've now learned from experience which is the more enjoyable way to run.
Finished in 91:07 and am now going to enter the half marathon and run for sub 2 hour time.
Thanks to the organisers and well done to everyone who ran.

pre

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Castleknock College thing stopped years ago, 2009 I think was the first year they stopped doing it. The races outgrew Castleknock College - it's a shame actually, the series was so much better in 07/08 than it is now even if it was a bit of a pain in the ass to get to Castleknock to pick up your number.




See, this is what I don't get. When I ran my first race (5 miler 2007) I positioned myself down towards the back as I knew that is where I would be, and I was right. I was in the last 300 or so finishers. The majority of people know damn well they're starting too close to the front. It's the bloody Irish mentality of not wanting to be at the back of the wave so you can get over the start line quicker, god forbid you're last over the start line. :rolleyes:

Coloir coded numbers or pens in numerical order based on predicted finish time like in the marathon are the only way to try and help this really. Dun Laoghaire 10k had the pens in numerical order based on predicted finish time.

I dont post very often but this is i believe is a serious issue. There is a general consensus out there that runners start further up the front than they should as to avoid the extra traffic. This causes massive congestion issues in races as faster runners who take up the right starting positions are held back and become frustrated. This is happening in just about every race in the country and i recently encountered this in the rotterdam marathon. This is drastic and perhaps over the top but i will say what everyone thinks, if people are taking the piss at your expense shuve them or push them out of ur way and if they fall they fall. Untill people get the message that races are for everybody from walkers, fun runners, good club runners and elites this will continue to happen. Anyone who enters the wrong pen should be disqualified, u would soon see a change in ways then.

TheRoadRunner

3 stars (average)

I thought this was a good event. 4 stars from me. Minor gripe was the water is cups. Doesn't normally bother me but found it hard to get enough liquid in. Started up the top of wave 1 so had no issues with start. Goodie bag was decent. Found course challenging. Especially around 5-6 miles. Long incline with wind in our faces.

Ran a pb as well so I'm happy out

Name Changed

3 stars (average)

Overall, I thought it was a great race and very well organised. I ran in in 1:21 which is my personal best, and I had an awful lot to spare.

The wave starts are a real problem though. However, I don't really see what they can do about it. Some people are so stupid or so ignorant that they will just go in wave 1 regardless of what instructions there are. It's as if people think if they start near the top they get a faster time.

I started at the back of wave 1 because there was more room. I was knackered after the first mile because I had to weave in and out of people, including plenty of walkers, in a big to get through.

I must admit that I barged a couple of people out of the way as well, people who were obviously supposed to be in wave 3.

It's extremely annoying but to be fair, it's more pig ignorance than it being badly organised.