Stock bull or Ai ?????

kealar

Evening all...what are people view on breeding or trying to breed for the live export market,,this is my first year suckling and at the min im doing AI, trouble is missing allot of heats and cows are a bit all over the place..so im in two minds weather to buy a bull or not,but im just thinking would you get a stock bull good enough to produce weanlings for export, ive good big red limo cows and they seem to be making a good job of there calves...is anyone here breeding stock for export from a bull,if so what breed bull,and what could u expect to pay for a good bull.any advice would really help me,cheers...:)

wiggy123

getting bit late to get a good bull for ur usage now...
BB be ur bull..

pakalasa

You're doing well with AI in sucklers, if you keep within the 365 day calving interval. Having tried a lot of heat detection methods, a teaser bull with chin-ball is the best of all. Anyone that has one will probably agree. If you even let cows slip back a month, it is very hard to bring them back again.
As for a bull to produce weanlings, a BB is probably the best, but costs big money. I saw one selling this year for €6,000. You ned a lot of cows to justify one like that.

To get you sorted this year, you're too late for a teaser bull, so get a bullock or strong weanling and put a chin-ball harness on him. You can get one cheaper here, than in local COOP;
http://www.allivet.com/The-Kow-Ball-Chin-Ball-Marker-p/50027.htm

Keep at the AI, you'll be glad when it comes to selling.

kealar

thanks paklasa,,are you doing Ai or stock bull urself..been looking at a few bb bulls and you get nothing half decent for under 4500 5000 euro and still the cow has her half to give to the equation,what in your opinon are blondes like to breed for export..if your not set up for ai it can be alot of work but if you make up the diffenence at the mart its worth it,thats what were in the game for i suppose...:rolleyes:

Bizzum

Most if not all of our bull weanlings are exported.
We use AI, Typically Lim, occasionally BB, BA, Sim, Part.
We also run a CH stock bull. The charolais bull generally gets heavier weanlings, but he is run with the best cows generally(but not always). Like AI, the vast majority of his male progeny are suitable for export.
Our cows are generally very good, many are AI bred off maternally proven sires.

pakalasa

The way I see it, when it comes to breeding, you will always get a huge variation. Even the same bull bred to the same cow, will vary from year to year. This is particularily true with 1/2 and to a lesser extent, 3/4 bred cows (continental). So you've got to "cover all base" as it were. What will the weanling that isn't good enough for export be like? I see a lot of weanlings that don't make the export truck but the Irish farmer isnt that interested in them either, BB, Blondes, Parths etc. They just dont have the growthy frame. That's the great thing about Charolais and Limousin, if they dont make the grade, the Irish farmer still goes mad for them.

Bigbird1

pakalasa wrote: »

You're doing well with AI in sucklers, if you keep within the 365 day calving interval. Having tried a lot of heat detection methods, a teaser bull with chin-ball is the best of all. Anyone that has one will probably agree. If you even let cows slip back a month, it is very hard to bring them back again.
As for a bull to produce weanlings, a BB is probably the best, but costs big money. I saw one selling this year for €6,000. You ned a lot of cows to justify one like that.

To get you sorted this year, you're too late for a teaser bull, so get a bullock or strong weanling and put a chin-ball harness on him. You can get one cheaper here, than in local COOP;
http://www.allivet.com/The-Kow-Ball-Chin-Ball-Marker-p/50027.htm

Keep at the AI, you'll be glad when it comes to selling.

Pakalasa, how would you rate the chin-ball harness, id a teaser bull last year with no harness, good but he didn't follow all the cows before heat and there was 1 or 2 cows that my father spotted standing early in the mornings, he would just walk away then and not bother for the day, i had checked the night before and no sign,this is where the harness would work well i think...this year i have 3 bullocks with them mad after some cows hardly lift there head for others

Muckit

Bigbird1 wrote: »

this year i have 3 bullocks with them mad after some cows hardly lift there head for others

The mating game seems to be the same whether you're man or beast

pakalasa

Bigbird1 wrote: »

Pakalasa, how would you rate the chin-ball harness, id a teaser bull last year with no harness, good but he didn't follow all the cows before heat and there was 1 or 2 cows that my father spotted standing early in the mornings, he would just walk away then and not bother for the day, i had checked the night before and no sign,this is where the harness would work well i think...this year i have 3 bullocks with them mad after some cows hardly lift there head for others

The chin-ball takes a while to figure out, as he will mark some of them accidentally. I find it great overall.
I've the same teaser bull now for 2 years. Will get rid of him soon though. I've found that he follows them for up to two days, especially if things have been quite with other cows for a while. I find it hard to keep the bloody thing on him this year. He keeps pulling of the front strap. Something he never did last year.
I think it's better to pick a lively devil. I have a saler x lim. This guy is more like a racehorse. You dont want a big heavy lazy type. ('Propping up the bar' type )

flatout11

if your breeding calves for the shipping your after a blue, as pakalasa pointed out a good one wont come cheap (upwards of 4000 k) - bad one aint worth buying,
we ran them for a few years, changed over to all AI for 2 years, found that this was too labour intensive
so went back to using AI blues followed by a charo to clean up,
simple option - AI for 6 weeks then a charo or lim to clean up - plenty of them out there

Bigbird1

pakalasa wrote: »

The chin-ball takes a while to figure out, as he will mark some of them accidentally. I find it great overall.
I've the same teaser bull now for 2 years. Will get rid of him soon though. I've found that he follows them for up to two days, especially if things have been quite with other cows for a while. I find it hard to keep the bloody thing on him this year. He keeps pulling of the front strap. Something he never did last year.
I think it's better to pick a lively devil. I have a saler x lim. This guy is more like a racehorse. You dont want a big heavy lazy type. ('Propping up the bar' type )

Ya i think i will invest,im sure if the cow is in heat he will mark her at least 5 or 6 times, accidental markings will likely not be up on her back as such

pakalasa

I thought I'd show this - It's a pic of how well the teaser will mark them. No mistaken that!

Bigbird1

I think shes in heat..:D

Thanks for that

will they all be like that, depends on heat length i suppose

49801

pakalasa wrote: »

I thought I'd show this - It's a pic of how well the teaser will mark them. No mistaken that!

how often do you have to refill the chinball?
is it easy to do?

I wonder would it be more cost effective to use a 1yr old weanling bull that has bee cut? when his 6wks of fun are over he could be fattened for slaughter. rather than holding on him and feeding him over the winter

pakalasa

Bigbird1 wrote: »

I
will they all be like that, depends on heat length i suppose

Depends on mounting activity. This one was well marked comared to average. If there's a lot bulling at the same time, then less marking.

49801 wrote: »

how often do you have to refill the chinball?
is it easy to do?

I wonder would it be more cost effective to use a 1yr old weanling bull that has bee cut? when his 6wks of fun are over he could be fattened for slaughter. rather than holding on him and feeding him over the winter

Chin-ball has to be filled , maybe every 2 to 3 weeks, again depends on number bulling. Better to keep it topped up when he's in the yard etc.
I let this fella run into the second season, but propably better to get rid of him after first season. The bull I have is starting to act up a bit now. Starting to get a little bit aggressive.Time to get rid of him, I think.

Bodacious

pakalasa wrote: »

Bigbird1 wrote: »

I
will they all be like that, depends on heat length i suppose

Depends on mounting activity. This one was well marked comared to average. If there's a lot bulling at the same time, then less marking.

49801 wrote: »

how often do you have to refill the chinball?
is it easy to do?

I wonder would it be more cost effective to use a 1yr old weanling bull that has bee cut? when his 6wks of fun are over he could be fattened for slaughter. rather than holding on him and feeding him over the winter

Chin-ball has to be filled , maybe every 2 to 3 weeks, again depends on number bulling. Better to keep it topped up when he's in the yard etc.

Hi Pakalasa,

What do you fill it with as the liquid they use on that site seems pricey enough!?

pakalasa

[QUOTE=Bodacious;73353884Hi Pakalasa,
What do you fill it with as the liquid they use on that site seems pricey enough!?[/Quote]

It's dear bloody stuff alright. But I get 2 years out of it. If anyone knows of anything else that can be used I'd love to hear about it. It has to be non-toxic as it can drip into the water troughs etc. It has to be the right thickness (viscosity) too to work properly. Water based too as the rain has to wash it off in about 2 weeks.
I was thinking maybe some kind of food dye mixed with thick cooking oil or something.

Bodacious

pakalasa wrote: »

It's dear bloody stuff alright. But I get 2 years out of it. If anyone knows of anything else that can be used I'd love to hear about it. It has to be non-toxic as it can drip into the water troughs etc. It has to be the right thickness (viscosity) too to work properly. Water based too as the rain has to wash it off in about 2 weeks.
I was thinking maybe some kind of food dye mixed with thick cooking oil or something.

So you order it direct from that site where you bought the harness. If its working for you and you get 2 years per bottle its not dear either .. i just presumed the shipping would be through the roof to bring the marking liquid from the states... what does it work out?

pakalasa

Bodacious wrote: »

So you order it direct from that site where you bought the harness. If its working for you and you get 2 years per bottle its not dear either .. i just presumed the shipping would be through the roof to bring the marking liquid from the states... what does it work out?

No, I bought the liquid in the local COOP, so even dearer again.

Muckit

Took a picture of the 'corral' we set up a few years ago to help get cows in for AI. I took the pic standing at the gate coming into the yard.
There are 2 gates at the bottom each side and another gate to the right to take the cattle in, depending on what field they're in.





There's a water trough too to the LEFT in among the patch of nettles! So cattle can be locked in for a bit if needs be.