Mayo GAA Discussion Thread

Boom__Boom

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Great post by Padkir on the breakdown of the game.
No way I could rewatch it at all, let alone in such detail.

But the one thing that struck me was that eventhoug Mayo were cleaned out in the middle (their supposed area of strength), had AOS and COC suffering from the clash of heads and had Donaghey getting the better of Caff. in the air, they still were in the game until the very last.

Sadly that only confirms for me that it was such a missed opportunity.

And it also confirms to me that Kerry are not that good and are in the final by virtue of the soft side of the AB system.

By the way Mayo have of course benefited from that soft side also.

Kerry shot 10 scores from 30 attempts in play a rate of 30% in the replay.

Basically Kerry had a real disaster of a day in terms of shooting from play the last day, but it looks very much like a one-off as opposed to the norm from Kerry.

In the 3 championship games prior to this, Kerry shot 53 from 85 attempts 62.35%

Also it wasn't the case that it was poor defences in the Cork and Galway games pushing these figures up, as in the prior Mayo game Kerry shot 15 from 24 (62.5%) - pretty much scoring at the exact same rate against the Mayo defence as they managed against the Cork and Galway defences.

The reason Mayo had the opportunity was largely because Kerry had a real off day in terms of shots from play.

All figures from the excellent Dont Foul site.

http://dontfoul.wordpress.com/

YouTookMyName

Any else disappointed none of last years minors made a proper case for a place in the senior set up?

Or are the seniors just too good?

Boom__Boom

YouTookMyName wrote: »

Any else disappointed none of last years minors made a proper case for a place in the senior set up?

Or are the seniors just too good?

The notion of minors automatically stepping up to senior football is pretty much completely dead unless they fall into the physical freaks category - just look at the tiny number of players even competing for YPOTY U21 this year.

It's a case of players stepping up from U21 you need to be looking at.

Kalyke

http://www.con-telegraph.ie/sport/roundup/articles/2014/09/03/4032333-connelly-front-runner-for-mayo-job/

seligehgit

YouTookMyName wrote: »

Any else disappointed none of last years minors made a proper case for a place in the senior set up?

Or are the seniors just too good?

TBH they were a tad young to step up,Diarmuid O Connor got his chance in Roscommon..too raw.Believe Stephen Coen was brought into the panel for one of the games.There had been loads of talk post the AI minor final about Liam Irwin,never came to naught.

More disappointed that the likes of Conor O Shea who started against Roscommon,Evan Regan(poor in the under 21 game against Roscommon) did'nt get further opportunities.

Mystified as to what happened to Adam Gallagher,he looked so promising in the league,not so sure if Darren Coen was'nt simply up to the mark.Danny Kirby is well worth a try out next year and an injury free Cathal Carolan would be a useful addition to the set up.

TBF to James Horan,I'm not sure where all the missed talent is?Somebody mentioned Seamus Cunniffe for full back.

Boom__Boom

Kalyke wrote: »

http://www.con-telegraph.ie/sport/roundup/articles/2014/09/03/4032333-connelly-front-runner-for-mayo-job/

Currently 6/1 on Paddypower - might be worth a small punt, especially given the talk of some of McStay's team not being hugely popular.

Whatever you do, dont bet on Donie Buckley at 10/1 as he is going to be involved with the Kerry U21s next year. Similarly there is no way Jack O'Connor at 20/1 will be leaving the Kerry minor job next year, even if Kerry lose the minor final as he has a 2 year term and next year's Kerry minors are also regarded as likely to be a pretty decent crop.

There are a couple of other names in there that don't look anyway realistic - Canavan at 5/1 for instance given his woeful record with Fermanagh - people confusing the job of being able to analyse a game with video technology with preparing/coaching/managing a team.

kerosene

Mayo could do worse than appoint Tony McEntee, I think he could be the man to get you over the line.

kerosene

I see he isnt even in the betting, I wonder what odds PP would give you? I might have a look at that tomorrow.

jibber5000

realweirdo wrote: »

Bizarre post to be honest.

Mayo were an even bigger pub team in 2010. Lost to Longford and Sligo. Horan who was local turned them into AI contenders which could and should have won at least one AI.
Most if not all our successful managers of the last 63 years have been from Mayo. O'Mahoney, Maughan, Horan.

We tried outsiders...Jack O'Se...20 point defeat to Cork...Brian McDonald, not much better, Mickey Moran, hammering to Kerry in 2006. The results were average to poor.

Most counties these days tend to stay in house and for very good reasons.

All of the QFs this year had managers native to their own counties i believe. It was probably the same last year.

Being a county manager is almost a full time 6 day a week job. Its too much to expect someone living in Donegal or Fermanagh to give that committment to the Mayo team. They'd also have to attend a lot club games in mayo to see new talent. It would be unworkable.

Well we vary on our definition of "success"... While some management teams outperformed their respective teams ability eg Maughan '96 Moran '06 others unerperformed eg JOM's reign 2007-10..The bottom line is they all ultimately failed as did Horan..McGuinness and Gallagher succeded.

Horan brought a team with a lot of raw materials (U21 champs 2006 and All Ireland minor finalists) but little confidence and turned them into contenders...

McGuinness brought a team with very little talent (no all ireland finals at any underage grade) and even less confidence and turned them into Winners..According to people I know involved in the set up Gallagher's influence was on a par with McGuinness..

A young bright intelligent manager is very hard to find..From the short bit of evidence of his time with Kilcar Gallagher is a manager going places. Hes following exactly the same route McGuinness took with Glenties before taking over Donegal.

What I find laughable on this thread is people suggesting they woudnt take McGuinness never mind Gallagher..Are ye actually being serious?! The best manager of the past 20 years and maybe ever but he wouldn't be good enough for Mayo..Is it any wonder people are satisfied with failure year after year.

Defiler Of The Coffin

I see Conor Mortimer is 100/1. Enda Kenny good value at 500/1?

Seriously though, 16/1 for Ciaran McDonald is daft. No way it will happen ahead of BJP or Jack O'Connor. McDonald hasn't managed in any capacity as far as I know.

I think Boom__Boom is right in saying Noel could be worth a punt, far more likely than Peter Canavan in any event.

I wonder why the odds on Anthony McGarry are short? Have there been rumours going around about him?

McEntee is certainly looking for a post, he's quoted as much in the Irish News. Whether Mayo would be too far for him though is another thing. Would be great to have a club and county winner on board.

Surprised that Pat Holmes is listed but Liam McHale isn't, Holmes has ruled himself out of the running.

Fr Tod Umptious

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

.......

Surprised that Pat Holmes is listed but Liam McHale isn't, Holmes has ruled himself out of the running.

Its "The Connaught" for God sake, when did they ever publish something with it being full of errors.

Defiler Of The Coffin

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Its "The Connaught" for God sake, when did they ever publish something with it being full of errors.

I was talking about the Paddy Powers odds, not the Connaught. If they can quote for feckin Conor Mortimer or Enda Kenny then why not Liam McHale? Surely he'll be in the running for the job at some point in time.

Defiler Of The Coffin

jibber5000 wrote: »

Well we vary on our definition of "success"... While some management teams outperformed their respective teams ability eg Maughan '96 Moran '06 others unerperformed eg JOM's reign 2007-10..The bottom line is they all ultimately failed as did Horan..McGuinness and Gallagher succeded.

Ironically enough Johnno's failed reign from 2007 - 10 was the result of him being out of the county more often than not thanks to him being a sitting TD! It was obvious there were political agendas at play at the time.

McGuinness and Gallagher succeeded yes but they were in their own county, would they be so effective if they had to travel down from Donegal 2-3 times a week, more if they want to scout out club matches? In an amateur game it's a big ask. Would he be willing to give up the Celtic role if the job was on the table?

I think if the right candidate was to emerge from within the county it would be prudent to appoint them. The team doesn't need a massive overhaul or a magician at this point in time.

TCDStudent1

6/1 for Connelly seems enticing.

Regarding McStay, where is he based and how involved is he in Mayo at club level?

I remember talking to some Galway players a few years back, players who would have played under Peter Forde, Joe Kernan (i.e. outside managers). They really felt outside managers were not the way to go, simply because they didnt know the players or the clubs well enough. It is very difficult for an outside manager to judge a player after just a couple of matches. For example, lets say Jack O'Connor is appointed. You would wonder how well he would know the likes of Cathal Carolan whereas somebody like Connelly would probably have watched him a fair bit at underage and know a lot of his strengths.

Boom__Boom

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

I think if the right candidate was to emerge from within the county it would be prudent to appoint them. The team doesn't need a massive overhaul or a magician at this point in time.

Really does seem an evolution rather than revolution situation.

Interesting to note that Fitzmaurice, McGuinness and Gavin all managed their county U21 sides before moving up to senior.

Mountainlad

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

6/1 for Connelly seems enticing.

Regarding McStay, where is he based and how involved is he in Mayo at club level?

I remember talking to some Galway players a few years back, players who would have played under Peter Forde, Joe Kernan (i.e. outside managers). They really felt outside managers were not the way to go, simply because they didnt know the players or the clubs well enough. It is very difficult for an outside manager to judge a player after just a couple of matches. For example, lets say Jack O'Connor is appointed. You would wonder how well he would know the likes of Cathal Carolan whereas somebody like Connelly would probably have watched him a fair bit at underage and know a lot of his strengths.

Wasn't he managing St Brigids, Roscommon the last few years?

Alvin Holler

realweirdo wrote: »

All of the QFs this year had managers native to their own counties i believe. It was probably the same last year.

Malachy O'Rourke is a Fermanagh man.

Fr Tod Umptious

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Kerry shot 10 scores from 30 attempts in play a rate of 30% in the replay.

Basically Kerry had a real disaster of a day in terms of shooting from play the last day, but it looks very much like a one-off as opposed to the norm from Kerry.

In the 3 championship games prior to this, Kerry shot 53 from 85 attempts 62.35%

Also it wasn't the case that it was poor defences in the Cork and Galway games pushing these figures up, as in the prior Mayo game Kerry shot 15 from 24 (62.5%) - pretty much scoring at the exact same rate against the Mayo defence as they managed against the Cork and Galway defences.

The reason Mayo had the opportunity was largely because Kerry had a real off day in terms of shots from play.

All figures from the excellent Dont Foul site.

http://dontfoul.wordpress.com/

That is a good point I'll admit, Kerry did have some uncharacteristic wides

Fr Tod Umptious

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

6/1 for Connelly seems enticing.

Regarding McStay, where is he based and how involved is he in Mayo at club level?

I remember talking to some Galway players a few years back, players who would have played under Peter Forde, Joe Kernan (i.e. outside managers). They really felt outside managers were not the way to go, simply because they didnt know the players or the clubs well enough. It is very difficult for an outside manager to judge a player after just a couple of matches. For example, lets say Jack O'Connor is appointed. You would wonder how well he would know the likes of Cathal Carolan whereas somebody like Connelly would probably have watched him a fair bit at underage and know a lot of his strengths.

What is the feeling in Mayo about Connelly ?

Looking at it from a distance he has a couple of positive attributes.
1. He is young - younger managers tend to be more inclined to develop current strategies and 'professionalism', for the use of a better word, in their setup and preparation
2. He has had success at U-21 level
3. He has been to an All Ireland final, obviously it's 20 years or so ago at this stage but it's still worth something I think.

Fr Tod Umptious

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Really does seem an evolution rather than revolution situation.

Interesting to note that Fitzmaurice, McGuinness and Gavin all managed their county U21 sides before moving up to senior.

Definitely
the team needs to be freshened up rather than rebuilt

ColeTrain

Cian Hanley has joined his brother Pearce in the AFL.

Defiler Of The Coffin

ColeTrain wrote: »

Cian Hanley has joined his brother Pearce in the AFL.

http://www.thescore.ie/cian-hanley-mayo-1653840-Sep2014/

Very disappointing for Mayo but best of luck to the lad. Didn't know he had torn his cruciate ligament in the semi.

GBXI

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

http://www.thescore.ie/cian-hanley-mayo-1653840-Sep2014/

Very disappointing for Mayo but best of luck to the lad. Didn't know he had torn his cruciate ligament in the semi.

Great for him, sickening for Mayo. I'd say eh would have been brought straight onto the senior panel by the new manager. Bad week for Mayo football.

Fowler87

ColeTrain wrote: »

Cian Hanley has joined his brother Pearce in the AFL.

Shame. Good for the lad but saw the interview with his brother on that cringey Afl show and it doesn't look like this stealing of our talented gaa players will end anytime soon. Hopefully in few years time the brothers might return. We would have won Sam with Pierce at 11 over the last couple years, no doubt about it.

yop

gutted he is gone, said it coming up in the car on Sat night that he would be snared. We have lost 2 quality players to the AFL in the 2 brothers.

intellectual dosser

I would have thought Mayo supporters would have been unanimous in calling for Kevin McStay. He took on a St. Brigid's team who had been banging on All Ireland's door for half a decade and within one year he got them over the line, with a cherry on top of it being an almighty comeback against a Dublin team.

I'll take the point that Club Football is different from Inter County, but if you want your man to be 'in house' then surely he's everyones choice?

GBXI

intellectual dosser wrote: »

I would have thought Mayo supporters would have been unanimous in calling for Kevin McStay. He took on a St. Brigid's team who had been banging on All Ireland's door for half a decade and within one year he got them over the line, with a cherry on top of it being an almighty comeback against a Dublin team.

I'll take the point that Club Football is different from Inter County, but if you want your man to be 'in house' then surely he's everyones choice?

The in-house choice is Noel Connolly. No offence to McStay but he is not involved with Mayo football like Noel is. I'd also see Noel as the most natural replacement for the best manager we've ever had.

MaroonAndGreen

Kevin McStay is my number one choice to be honest. Hope he gets an interview

GBXI

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Kevin McStay is my number one choice to be honest. Hope he gets an interview

Why McStay over Connolly? Would you not see McStay seriously lacking in the motivational aspects of management compared to Connolly? Not to mention Connolly has been involved in club and underage development teams in recent years whereas McStay, outside of his Brigid's stint, has been a pundit on RTE.

aveytare

Don't know much about Connolly but it sounds like you have two good potential managers, could be worse.

Panrich

Cian Hanley off to Oz apparently

http://www.thescore.ie/cian-hanley-mayo-1653840-Sep2014/

happyoutscan

Connolly would be my choice, knows the game, the county and the set up and is strong enough to handle the pressure.

davegrohl48

seligehgit wrote: »

TBH they were a tad young to step up,Diarmuid O Connor got his chance in Roscommon..too raw.Believe Stephen Coen was brought into the panel for one of the games.There had been loads of talk post the AI minor final about Liam Irwin,never came to naught.

More disappointed that the likes of Conor O Shea who started against Roscommon,Evan Regan(poor in the under 21 game against Roscommon) did'nt get further opportunities.

Mystified as to what happened to Adam Gallagher,he looked so promising in the league,not so sure if Darren Coen was'nt simply up to the mark.Danny Kirby is well worth a try out next year and an injury free Cathal Carolan would be a useful addition to the set up.

TBF to James Horan,I'm not sure where all the missed talent is?Somebody mentioned Seamus Cunniffe for full back.

One of the things setup under the strategic review was the Mayo Academy for players aged 18 -22. As far as I am aware it is still in operation. Players receive the support they need which at that age is mainly off-pitch habits.
I was surprised Stephen Coen and Diarmuid O'Connor were involved in the setup this year. As someone mentioned only physical minors can step straight into Senior Grade.
We have been poor at converting those Academy players.
Since Cillian there hasn't been any young player making an impact in the championship.
We seem to anoint players from minor teams early and cast the rest aside in terms of senior selection. It will be expected that Coen/O'Connor will feature next year.
What would people think of tracking online all panel members of each minor team in terms of performances in games? Profile for each player. Can attach a performance review in a game to any player.
I think it's the most effect way to find alternatives for full back.
I know of a case where in one season a few years ago a Mayo Club Division 1 full back went on a streak of games where he had barely conceded to his direct opponent from play. It was something like five or six games and I remember that it was just one point conceded. You can't be lucky for 300 minutes of football in Division 1 would be my view.
To find your full back you look at height/weight of players in their profile and check scoring concession and how many times they lose the ball when in posession. Gives you a list of a few guys to monitor. Or you check out the amount of players over six foot rated as having pace.
Basically a proper online player tracker is not rocket science and there is plenty online community interested to submit game reviews for players.
Give people a simple template to fill in online to collect the same stats for every player. If too busy for that simply rate out of 10 and add some rating notes to the review of the players game performance.

MaroonAndGreen

The only problem with Ger Cafferkey is confidence and that hes just come back from an injury. He was the best full-back in the country in 2012 IMO and was right up there in 2013.

realweirdo

Fowler87 wrote: »

Thought it testament to the way the team are drilled that AOS saying in his OTB interview that even with a 7 point lead at one stage the team knew they weren't at the level they're capable of. Missed opportunity perhaps as although we left it all there in the end, it was definitely nowhere near an efficient Mayo performance from the standard set over 2-3 years. Looking forward to next year already mind!

Missed opportunities has always summed up Mayo. Really good teams when they go ahead up it another gear and go out of sight. They know they are better than the other team and have the confidence to kick on and open their game up a bit more.
Mayo on the otherhand seem to drop it a gear when they go ahead. Final last year against Dublin, first game against Kerry when they were blowing Kerry off the field in the second half, first half of replay.

There is no way they should have let Kerry back into that game in Limerick. Easier said than done I know, but they could and should have put the game beyond doubt. The ref didn't help, but you always felt Mayo were going to blow a big lead.

realweirdo

Alvin Holler wrote: »

Malachy O'Rourke is a Fermanagh man.

Thanks for that, I wasn't sure. At most you'd accept a manager from a neighbouring county such as John O'Mahoney did when he managed Galway. It would be about a 40 minute drive for him to Tuam which is where I think most of the Galway training was done.

But bringing guys down from Donegal or Armagh, or up from Kerry, its a backward step in my view. Tony McEntee for example would have to set off at lunchtime and he'd be back home 2am. Does anyone think that's sustainable on a long term basis. The same with Jack O'Connor.

The game moves on rapidly too. What Donegal used to achieve success in 2012 is probably somewhat obsolete now.

realweirdo

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

The only problem with Ger Cafferkey is confidence and that hes just come back from an injury. He was the best full-back in the country in 2012 IMO and was right up there in 2013.

True. He was also not helped by the fact Mayo didn't really have a sweeper from what I could see.

The danger is not always from Donaghy, it's usually from the guy bursting through running off his shoulder.

Take JOD for example. Without Donaghy he often gets the ball 30 or 40 yards out and is expected to make something from it. He's never going to win a high ball into the full forward line. He struggled to get past Higgins for most of the first game.

On comes Donaghy and suddenly JOD is getting fed the ball right on front of the posts.

I'd be less worried about marking Donaghy than marking JOD in those situations. Defenders pay too much attention to Donaghy and not enough to other forwards he'd give the ball to.

realweirdo

GBXI wrote: »

Why McStay over Connolly? Would you not see McStay seriously lacking in the motivational aspects of management compared to Connolly? Not to mention Connolly has been involved in club and underage development teams in recent years whereas McStay, outside of his Brigid's stint, has been a pundit on RTE.

McStay was manager of an All Ireland final winning team. Connolly was an assistant manager of an All-Ireland final losing team. There's a key difference there. For me McStay edges it.

Reaching a final is one thing, winning one is something much more. You have to have tactics spot on, subs at right time, mental attitude right etc.

I can't see Connolly getting the job ahead of McStay to be honest.

NabyLadistheman

Would there be anything said for McStay AND Connolly getting the job?

TCDStudent1

Isnt it Connelly and not Connolly?

yop

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Isnt it Connelly and not Connolly?

It is.

ColeTrain

Suarezistheman wrote: »

Would there be anything said for McStay AND Connolly getting the job?

They're ALL lovely managers

flasher0030

Very good. Like what you did there.

Loafing Oaf

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Isnt it Connelly and not Connolly?

And pronounced Con-ELLY. Unless it's one of those things where everyone outside the county says Connolly and only true Mayo people pronounce it that way. Like saying Reape as 'rape'...

GBXI

realweirdo wrote: »

McStay was manager of an All Ireland final winning team. Connolly was an assistant manager of an All-Ireland final losing team. There's a key difference there. For me McStay edges it.

Reaching a final is one thing, winning one is something much more. You have to have tactics spot on, subs at right time, mental attitude right etc.

I can't see Connolly getting the job ahead of McStay to be honest.

What are you on about? Connelly was assistant manager of an AI winning Mayo U21 team in 06. And as I pointed out above, he is heavily involved with Mayo football whereas McStay is not. Connelly's credentials way out-weigh McStay's at at this point in time.

Boom__Boom

I thought I'd throw up a link to this article in de'paper about the Mayo situation.

Sounds like the board are being a bit "political" here with their talk of restrictions on money and also the whole club v county area.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/mayo-board-puts-tight-restrictions-on-new-boss-285039.html

TCDStudent1

What has Liam McHale done to be disliked by the players so much?

GBXI

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

What has Liam McHale done to be disliked by the players so much?

Ah in fairness, as brilliant a football as he was, he's a bit of a flute.

Rockfish

Boom__Boom wrote: »

I thought I'd throw up a link to this article in de'paper about the Mayo situation.

Sounds like the board are being a bit "political" here with their talk of restrictions on money and also the whole club v county area.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/mayo-board-puts-tight-restrictions-on-new-boss-285039.html

What do you mean by 'political'? They are dead right to set down criteria, Horan and the board didnt exactly have a great relationship a the best of times

Panrich

Not too sure about Connelly. Himself and Holmes did well in 2006 but we lost three consecutive semi finals after that with teams that looked on paper to be good enough to emulate the 2006 team.