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Operating EI callsign in the UK

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  • 10-07-2011 1:03pm
    #1
    PauloMN
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 10,869 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Going on holiday to the UK shortly, might bring the handheld with me. Just wondering what prefix to use when away, is it 'G' or 'M' to make "G/EI..." or "M/EI..."?


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    #2
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    M/EI is the procedure.


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    #3
    brownmini
    Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭brownmini


    PauloMN wrote: »
    Going on holiday to the UK shortly, might bring
    the handheld with me. Just wondering what prefix to use when away, is it
    'G' or 'M' to make "G/EI..." or "M/EI..."?


    As already answered M/EI.... is the answer.
    Remember MW for Wales and MM for Scotland.

    One other thing.
    The terms and conditions that you must satisfy when operating M/EI...
    are the UK terms&conditions - not the Irish ones.

    Archived info from the old RA website is here (see Part B lower down)
    http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/ra/publication/ra_info/ra247.htm


    The following link will give you a PDF file of a sample licence and
    the terms and conditions attached to the licence.
    This file also contains the frequency and power listing for each band.

    http://licensing.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/spectrum/amateur-radio/guidance-for-licensees/samplelicence07.pdf


    And bring your own licence (copy of it) with you.


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    #4
    PauloMN
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 10,869 Mod ✭✭✭✭PauloMN


    Thanks for the info and tips guys, must print off a copy of the license.


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    #5
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Just as handy to pay Ofcom £20 for a UK callsign.


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    #6
    brownmini
    Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭brownmini


    Our man in Havana wrote: »
    Just as handy to pay Ofcom £20 for a UK callsign.

    20 quid for a lifetime licence - that makes sense.


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    #7
    Rollercoaster
    Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭Rollercoaster


    Our man in Havana wrote: »
    Just as handy to pay Ofcom £20 for a UK callsign.

    Do you need a permanent UK address to get a UK callsign?


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    #8
    brownmini
    Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭brownmini


    Rollercoaster wrote: »
    Do you need a permanent UK address to get a UK callsign?

    The address needs to be a fixed address inside UK (GB+NI etc) borders.
    You don't need to own the property.

    The application form is located at:

    http://licensing.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/spectrum/amateur-radio/apply-for-a-licence/of346.pdf

    Section 2b deals with the address and notice how it says 'In the UK'.


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    #9
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    There is absolutely no need to own a house or even be resident in the UK.

    Just look at the EI call list, quite a few foreign addresses on that list.


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    #10
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    brownmini wrote: »
    As already answered M/EI.... is the answer.
    Remember MW for Wales and MM for Scotland.

    and MI for Northern Ireland (IIRC Isle of Man and Channel islands have their own variants too).

    Questions:
    Would G series prefixes (e.g. G, GM, GW, GI, GU) also be acceptable -what about GB or MB ?
    Was the EJ series ever been used in Ireland ?
    When one is operating mobile while travelling along a border area is one supposed to announce everytime theyve crossed and what if one is unsure which side theyre on (not always immediately clear on some back roads) at any given time ?


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    #11
    brownmini
    Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭brownmini


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    and MI for Northern Ireland (IIRC Isle of Man and Channel islands have their own variants too).

    Questions:
    Would G series prefixes (e.g. G, GM, GW, GI, GU) also be acceptable -what about GB or MB ?
    Was the EJ series ever been used in Ireland ?
    When one is operating mobile while travelling along a border area is one supposed to announce everytime theyve crossed and what if one is unsure which side theyre on (not always immediately clear on some back roads) at any given time ?

    The official print says that visitors use M and if required the sub-letter after it.
    GB is a special callsign and nowadays MB is also used.

    EJ is usually used for offshore island operation and according to the
    T/R61-01 document can be issued by COMREG for other things if they
    decide to.


    You are required to use the proper callsign at all times.
    If you are unsure of where you are and what callsign that you should use
    then I suggest that you go quiet until you confirm your location.


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    #12
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    brownmini wrote: »
    EJ is usually used for offshore island operation.

    So would a (normally mainland based) licensee visiting an offshore Island become EJ/EI or do amateurs/experimenters based on Islands use EI callsigns too ? :confused:

    Is Achill (connected to mainland by bridge) regarded as an Island for EI/EJ designation ?

    brownmini wrote: »
    You are required to use the proper callsign at all times. If you are unsure of where you are and what callsign that you should use then I suggest that you go quiet until you confirm your location.
    I guess one should refrain from engaging in mobile QSO's when travelling along the N54/A3 So :)


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    #13
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Well there are no EJ listings on the IRTS listings. Maybe comreg don't issue EJ callsigns at present or there is no one on the islands who is licensed?

    I would think that whilst within the territory of the republic you would only use EI regardless of where you are situated whether on an island or not.


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    #14
    brownmini
    Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭brownmini


    Our man in Havana wrote: »
    Well there are no EJ listings on the IRTS listings. Maybe comreg don't issue
    EJ callsigns at present or there is no one on the islands who is licensed?

    I would think that whilst within the territory of the republic you would only
    use EI regardless of where you are situated whether on an island or
    not.

    I would suggest that it is that no-one with a licence has an main address
    on an island (yet).

    If one goes to a website and about 4/4 down the page, one will find a
    mention of several EJ callsigns.
    see: http://www.irts.ie/cgi/showarchive.cgi?110626.txt

    see also: http://www.erodocdb.dk/docs/doc98/official/pdf/TR6101.pdf
    (Appendix 2 page 5 / PDF file,Page 5 of 10 )

    As for Achill, in the past where people have travelled across that bridge,
    changed-over and operated EJ but that the last time I heard about that
    was a long time ago. I wonder if there is a half-way mark on the bridge
    that decides between EI and EJ ?

    For those who wish to have knowledge from the authority, COMREG, on the
    subject of 'EJ' then perhaps Section 8 Page 16 second paragraph of
    the downloadable file 'ComReg0945.pdf' will explain it all.
    see: http://www.comreg.ie/_fileupload/publications/ComReg0945.pdf

    73


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    #15
    brownmini
    Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭brownmini


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    So would a (normally mainland based) licensee visiting an offshore Island become EJ/EI or do amateurs/experimenters based on Islands use EI callsigns too ? :confused:

    Is Achill (connected to mainland by bridge) regarded as an Island for EI/EJ designation ?



    I guess one should refrain from engaging in mobile QSO's when travelling along the N54/A3 So :)

    Yes. And as plenty of stories over the years have shown, it's not just
    amateur radio operators who have had trouble figuring out which side of
    the EI/GI line that they are physically on :).

    But consider this, years ago when there were no reciprocal arrangements
    at all, travelling into another country with a handheld could technically get
    you in trouble as you would technically have no licence for it unless you
    had prepared months in advance to apply for and get a licence for that
    country. Now with CEPT T/R 61-01 (and since its creation) that big
    technicality hole has been filled in where CEPT applies.


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    #16
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    But consider this, years ago when there were no reciprocal arrangements
    at all, travelling into another country with a handheld could technically get
    you in trouble as you would technically have no licence for it unless you
    had prepared months in advance to apply for and get a licence for that
    country. Now with CEPT T/R 61-01 (and since its creation) that big
    technicality hole has been filled in where CEPT applies.
    I was told in no uncertain terms to get off the air when I attempted to use my EI callsign with the correct prefix (HA) in Hungary.


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    #17
    brownmini
    Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭brownmini


    Our man in Havana wrote: »
    I was told in no uncertain terms to get off the air when I attempted to use my EI callsign with the correct prefix (HA) in Hungary.

    Oh Dear.
    According to previously mentioned document, Hungary have signed up to
    CEPT so you are OK there as long as this all happened after the ink dried
    on the Hungarian signature on the CEPT document.
    Sometimes there's a delay in the signing of an agreement/treaty and it
    actually coming into force.

    After that, it depends on how big the bloke was who told you to get off :D


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    #18
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    brownmini wrote: »
    But consider this, years ago when there were no reciprocal arrangements at all, travelling into another country with a handheld could technically get you in trouble as you would technically have no licence for it unless you had prepared months in advance to apply for and get a licence for that country..

    Ive always wondered how the licensing works for two way (PMR) radio in vehicles travelling between EI and GI (or vice versa) ? or even back in the days when one needed a receiving licence for their car radio ?

    And what of foreign vessels in Irish airspace/waters/ports ?


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    #19
    brownmini
    Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭brownmini


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Ive always wondered how the licensing works for two way (PMR) radio
    in vehicles travelling between EI and GI (or vice versa) ? or even
    back in the days when one needed a receiving licence for their car
    radio ?

    And what of foreign vessels in Irish airspace/waters/ports ?

    Perhaps I'm wrong but with radio receiving licences were just another
    way to tax and control technology. Controlling the receivers meant that
    you could control boths ends of the communication pathway.
    Remember you still pay a small fee for the pleasure of an ATM card to get
    your own money out of your own bank.

    I don't know about EI vehicles with PMR going into GI.
    Perhaps companies with business in EI and GI did take out licences in both
    EI & GI to make sure all was satisfactory to anyone who might inspect?
    Or maybe they had some vehicles with no radios in them for journeys.

    Ship licences etc. are issued under some sort of convention and I
    also think that the ITU has something to do with it too.
    And if I'm right about some sort of convention that goes way back in time,
    then as long as the countries you sail into are on the list, then your ships
    radio will be allowed to operate. I suggest that there was complication with
    Amateur Radio stations that needed extra words-on-paper before people
    were allowed to wander between countries.
    But if an Irish Amateur is required to use the callsign MW/EI9XYZ when in
    Wales then the question ''Why then is an Irish aircraft (EI-XYZ) not
    required to use MW/EI-XYZ when flying over or into Cardiff airport ?

    Or to put it another way, if the aircraft EI-XYZ can fly into GW without
    changing callsign then why does an Irish Amateur have to put MW/ in front
    of his/her callsign when he/she gets off the boat at Holyhead ?

    It has to be because of some convention/agreement/symposium/big-jolly
    that was sufficently clear for ships/planes etc but not for Amateur Radio
    even though the ITU have a hand in Amateur Radio stuff.
    The exact answer is probably a job for Google.


    Some stuff on Wiki.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITU_prefix_-_amateur_and_experimental_stations

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_sign


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    #20
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    brownmini wrote: »
    I don't know about EI vehicles with PMR going into GI. Perhaps companies with business in EI and GI did take out licences in both EI & GI to make sure all was satisfactory to anyone who might inspect? Or maybe they had some vehicles with no radios in them for journeys.

    TBH I doubt a lot of them would have bothered with licensing in one jurisdiction nevermind both. But even of your theory is correct wouldnt there need to be a process in place to ensure they got allocated identical frequencies by each administration.
    brownmini wrote: »
    Ship licences etc. are issued under some sort of convention and I also think that the ITU has something to do with it too.
    And if I'm right about some sort of convention that goes way back in time,
    then as long as the countries you sail into are on the list, then your ships
    radio will be allowed to operate. .
    Youre probably right although wouldnt there need to be a process whereby such conventions would need to be ratified into national legislation (Dont see anything in the original 1926 legislation providing for this) ?

    brownmini wrote: »
    I suggest that there was complication with
    Amateur Radio stations that needed extra words-on-paper before people
    were allowed to wander between countries..
    Probably it was something like an expectation from the outset that ships/aircraft would be moving between countries but the rarity of international travel and the bulky nature of tube (and even spark) era amateur gear lead to erroneous assumptions that amateurs wouldnt be moving about that much.
    brownmini wrote: »
    IBut if an Irish Amateur is required to use the callsign MW/EI9XYZ when in Wales then the question ''Why then is an Irish aircraft (EI-XYZ) not required to use MW/EI-XYZ when flying over or into Cardiff airport ?
    Interesting point but I suppose it goes back to that assumption that aeronautical stations will by their nature be moving about more.


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