Newly qualifieds; The future, moving abroad etc

galwaybetty

Well I'm out of my place at the end of June. I have heard about a few people getting jobs, so Im hoping theres more out there. I guess all I can do is bang out the cvs and see what happens.

Cody Pomeray

Lockstep wrote: »

For moving abroad, will a law degree be sufficient or would you need to have completed a training contract/finished deviling before you have any chance of finding work abroad?

I'd be well up for moving abroad but if I'm not going to be staying in Ireland, would rather avoid the money involved in qualifying as a solicitor/barrister.

Within Europe, it shouldn't matter a great deal. You should read up more on the regulations set down in compliance with this directive in whatever EU jurisdiction you're moving to, if you're moving to a European jurisdiction.

I'm doing a postgrad at the moment but would have no hesitation about relocating in the EU, and I can't understand why more individuals don't take up these opportunities, whether qualified here or just graduated with a law degree; it's an ideal alternative that could suit a lot of people, especially those who have studied law with a language.

BillyMitchel

I'll be starting a law in NUI in Sept and this thread was depressing as hell to read!

Anyone brave enough to predict massive improvements in 4 years? Studying law is something I've always been passionate about and have always wanted to do but it's never really been an option until now, I really don't want to change my mind. It's also going to cost me a small fortune in fees etc and thats something else I have to keep in mind.

I've also sent out some letters and CV's to local practices for some work experience over the summer. I'd be happy with a few hours a week, just to even get a feel of the working environment. This a good idea or waste of time?

It will be my second degree and a complete career change. I'll also be 30 starting so I really cannot afford to make the wrong decision but let me state this again. It's something I'm very passionate about and have wanted to do for a long long time, I'm willing to put every ounce of effort and cent I possibly can to get my law degree.

Sorry if I've gone slightly OT but any responses will be greatly appreciated.

NoQuarter

Work experience is one of the best things you can do for your CV and usually during your degree you are only in 4/5 days so you could see if you can work for a firm on fridays and then more over the breaks. That technique got me an offer of a contract which I turned down for other reasons.

Also, what is your first degree?

BillyMitchel

NoQuarter wrote: »

Work experience is one of the best things you can do for your CV and usually during your degree you are only in 4/5 days so you could see if you can work for a firm on fridays and then more over the breaks. That technique got me an offer of a contract which I turned down for other reasons.

Also, what is your first degree?

Completely unrelated, graphic/web design.

NoQuarter

BillyMitchel wrote: »

Completely unrelated, graphic/web design.

I ask because some degrees mean that a law degree is not needed to sit the FE1s which are the exams needed to become a solicitor.

Be aware from the start, that a pure law degree is not always the best way to go. Business & Law and other more commercial degrees have a lot of merit depending on what your ultimate goal is.

My advice is to just do it if thats what you want. It is a financial struggle, no doubt about it. Depending on your goal, age isnt much of a factor, for example if you intend on becoming a Barrister, its common to see people in their 30s training.

My advice would be to have a clear goal which will help you set off on the right path.

BillyMitchel

NoQuarter wrote: »

I ask because some degrees mean that a law degree is not needed to sit the FE1s which are the exams needed to become a solicitor.

Be aware from the start, that a pure law degree is not always the best way to go. Business & Law and other more commercial degrees have a lot of merit depending on what your ultimate goal is.

My advice is to just do it if thats what you want. It is a financial struggle, no doubt about it. Depending on your goal, age isnt much of a factor, for example if you intend on becoming a Barrister, its common to see people in their 30s training.

My advice would be to have a clear goal which will help you set off on the right path.

Thanks for the replies.

While i was applying to colleges DIT came back and offered this post grad: http://www.dit.ie/socialscienceslaw/law/postgraduateprogrammes/postgraduatediplomainlaw/ I did think about just doing the post grad but I thought employment opportunities would be much better if I had an actual law degree. The lecturers I spoke to at various universities agreed that having a law degree would increase my prospects as to just having the post grad.

It's the LLB course I'm doing in NUIM.

At this stage my goal is solicitor but that could change to barrister while in college.

Manach

BillyMitchel wrote: »

Completely unrelated, graphic/web design.

Best of luck. My ex-Team lead in the IT industry went the FE1/apprentice route to become a solicitor.

NoQuarter

Make sure to look into whether you can sit any of the FE1s before you get your law degree, it might be possible as you already have a degree. If it is possible, make sure to do them throughout your degree while you are covering those topics in the degree. That could save you a year or two.

Other than that, try your hardest to get an internship during every summer you are off and build up the CV with extra curriculars.

Good luck, you'll need it.

BillyMitchel

Manach wrote: »

Best of luck. My ex-Team lead in the IT industry went the FE1/apprentice route to become a solicitor.

Any idea of how it worked out for him?

NoQuarter wrote: »

Make sure to look into whether you can sit any of the FE1s before you get your law degree, it might be possible as you already have a degree. If it is possible, make sure to do them throughout your degree while you are covering those topics in the degree. That could save you a year or two.

Other than that, try your hardest to get an internship during every summer you are off and build up the CV with extra curriculars.

Good luck, you'll need it.

Cheers, thanks for your advice.

Manach

BillyMitchel wrote: »

Any idea of how it worked out for him?

Last I heard he qualified, set up his own practice and still going after 2 years. He seems to enjoy the sense of independence the practice gives but on the other side there is the regular paycheck that IT gives.

Cody Pomeray

BillyMitchel wrote: »

Anyone brave enough to predict massive improvements in 4 years? Studying law is something I've always been passionate about and have always wanted to do but it's never really been an option until now, I really don't want to change my mind. It's also going to cost me a small fortune in fees etc and thats something else I have to keep in mind.

It is of dubious wisdom to take on or pass up any course offer with an eye to the economic future of the country. Plenty of people who started law in 2007, when times were good, are currently broke and unemployed. There are also students who started out back then that are currently doing very well for themselves. Water will find its level: a good student will shine, regardless of the economic weather conditions.

If you enjoy the law and are willing to immerse yourself in your course then my advice to you would be to keep your head in the sand as regards your salary expectations down the line.

However, since you have mentioned that the cost will be a burden to you, and that you already have a degree, why not just seek a professional qualification with the degree that you have?

impr0v

BillyMitchel wrote: »

Anyone brave enough to predict massive improvements in 4 years?

"Massive" is a big word [/pun]. I predict a significant increase in transactional work by then. Litigation will follow a few years behind that. This isn't really based on any empirical evidence, just general impressions of the market - including the recent reporting of modest increases in hiring by some firms.

BillyMitchel wrote: »

I've also sent out some letters and CV's to local practices for some work experience over the summer. I'd be happy with a few hours a week, just to even get a feel of the working environment. This a good idea or waste of time?

Good idea. I have trawled CV for trainee positions and the more relevant experience on a CV the greater the chance of the document making it into the "interview" pile.

If you have always wanted a career in law then studying should be easier for you than someone who is half committed, sees it as an easy path to money, or is studying law because their parents think it is a good idea. Good academics are the core criteria for making it to the "interview" pile. A lot of firms, rightly or wrongly, favour TCD/UCD grads. You should aim for a first.

FreudianSlippers

I still firmly believe the legal services bill will revolutionise things for younger lawyers. It's not great for the status quo, and it will certainly mean less people coming into the profession and "making it big", but it should allow young lawyers to eek out a liveable professional life with money and potential to go further, or not.

nuac

FS

Why do you think the Legal Services bill will improve matters?

BillyMitchel

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

It is of dubious wisdom to take on or pass up any course offer with an eye to the economic future of the country. Plenty of people who started law in 2007, when times were good, are currently broke and unemployed. There are also students who started out back then that are currently doing very well for themselves. Water will find its level: a good student will shine, regardless of the economic weather conditions.

If you enjoy the law and are willing to immerse yourself in your course then my advice to you would be to keep your head in the sand as regards your salary expectations down the line.

However, since you have mentioned that the cost will be a burden to you, and that you already have a degree, why not just seek a professional qualification with the degree that you have?

Burden maybe a bit strong but some sacrifices will have to be made but I'm 100% prepared to do them. My degree was enjoyable but even halfway through it I knew it wasn't for me. I was working for a magazine for awhile and when my contract finished there wasn't much work here so I went teaching for a year and knew that no way did I want to sit at a computer at all. So after much debating about what to I decided a complete new career direction and law has never really been an option until now. Hopefully I've made the right decision!

impr0v wrote: »

"Massive" is a big word [/pun]. I predict a significant increase in transactional work by then. Litigation will follow a few years behind that. This isn't really based on any empirical evidence, just general impressions of the market - including the recent reporting of modest increases in hiring by some firms.



Good idea. I have trawled CV for trainee positions and the more relevant experience on a CV the greater the chance of the document making it into the "interview" pile.

If you have always wanted a career in law then studying should be easier for you than someone who is half committed, sees it as an easy path to money, or is studying law because their parents think it is a good idea. Good academics are the core criteria for making it to the "interview" pile. A lot of firms, rightly or wrongly, favour TCD/UCD grads. You should aim for a first.

Thats the plan!

Thanks for all the advice folks.

chops018

BillyMitchel wrote: »

Burden maybe a bit strong but some sacrifices will have to be made but I'm 100% prepared to do them. My degree was enjoyable but even halfway through it I knew it wasn't for me. I was working for a magazine for awhile and when my contract finished there wasn't much work here so I went teaching for a year and knew that no way did I want to sit at a computer at all. So after much debating about what to I decided a complete new career direction and law has never really been an option until now. Hopefully I've made the right decision!



Thats the plan!

Thanks for all the advice folks.

There is still sitting at a computer, not constant, but there is.

Also, a lot of Solicitors do a lot of office work too. So beware of what you are getting into. In saying that it doesn't seem to be a regular office job, you will be meeting clients and attending counsel and other court hearings etc.

NoQuarter

To reiterate what chops has said, there is a lot of sitting at computers or if you're feeling old school, sitting in front of a book.

Really though, there is. If you think its all about appearing in court, you need to re-evaluate immediately. So much is done behind the scenes, the vast majority. It's an iceberg profession.

johnnyskeleton

NoQuarter wrote: »

It's an iceberg profession.

Cold, slow moving and woe betide anyone who gets in their path?

NoQuarter

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Cold, slow moving and woe betide anyone who gets in their path?

And inhabited with funny looking creatures in all black and white.

BillyMitchel

NoQuarter wrote: »

To reiterate what chops has said, there is a lot of sitting at computers or if you're feeling old school, sitting in front of a book.

Really though, there is. If you think its all about appearing in court, you need to re-evaluate immediately. So much is done behind the scenes, the vast majority. It's an iceberg profession.

Previous post was meant to read sitting at a computer all day.

No, I didn't really think that to be honest. Could be wrong but I'm assuming its office, meeting clients, courts. Not in that order but its the general idea that I'd have, hense why I sent out some work experience letters to some local practices.

Sitting in front of a book wouldn't bother me in the slightest. With all the money, effort, commitment that I'll have to put in, of course I gave it serious consideration. Its nearly the only thing I've thought about for the best part of 12 months and I'm still 100% certain it's what I want to do and I'm prepared to give everything to achieve it.