Back Surgery

Spook_ie

Goodness apache, that doesnt sound good about the pain, although I'm delighted you have managed to get your appointment brought forward. OH had her back surgery in the mater private and had her knees replaced in the Hermitage - its great that its only 9 days away, but OH says dont forget that the Hermitage have their own A&E department, now you will be liable for 120 euros for walking through the door but you will be able to access emergency consultant care if things get much worse for you.

OH rarely takes anything for her back now, the odd time she might need a day or two on Arcoxia and tylex but its rare thank god.

Let us know how you get on and no, you're not moaning, the pain from a nerve can be excruciating .......

apache

thanks again spook.

had my appointment on wednesday morning with consultant. i would have thought follow up appointments were free. but no charged me e150! when i got my eyes lasered all follow up appointments were free.

anyway he told me everybody is different and he did have people coming back to him in my position with a lot of pain. he told me to keep taking the heavy doses of medication and to cancel my appointment in july and make one for september and if i'm better before that i can cancel it. also to stay out of work for another few months!

i could stretch and do the exercises ok so he said he didn't think there was a problem. but i told him that was because of the painkillers. if i wasn't on them i would be in bits. he said still nothing mechanically wrong as i would not have been able to do the stretches if there was. so fair enough point i guess.
he said my whole structure was off kilter because of the operation and it was going to take time to realign itself properly like a cog slipping out of a wheel.

i didn't ask him everything i wanted and was disappointed by his response. but while up at my gps today collecting my meds he told me his brother in law got the exact same operation as me the same week and is still in bits. he did agree though that i was on strong meds so that is why i am walking around. so he gave me some hope. maybe it will just take time before i am pain free.

its really nice to talk to people who understand it and their experiences. anybody else?

daltonmd

apache wrote: »

its really nice to talk to people who understand it and their experiences. anybody else?

Hi Apache - your experience sounds exactly like mine. First I want to say to you that my heart absolutely goes out to you. Unless you have been through THAT pain then you can never truly understand - it is worse than childbirth and I never ever thought I'd say that.

I had an accident a few years ago that left me with a back problem - discs. In February 2010, I had a herniation, due to my (youngish) age they were reluctant to operate until the pain was so bad and I could not walk, they really had no choice.

Had the op in August. At first it was a resounding success, pain free, med free and quality of life back. I did my physio, completed a 12 week pilate course and returned to work.

I lasted a couple of months - and started to have problems again.

In February 2011, after weeks of pain I had a second herniation, this one was much was much worse than the first, 3 times the size and I lost bladder/bowel control to boot - I had been told that should this happen (cauda equine syndrome) then I need to get myself into the hospital asap - which I did and was taken straight down for emergency surgery.

Came around from the surgery and like you - things just didn't feel right. Released after a week and within a few days THAT pain started again and I couldn't stand for more than 15 seconds without having to get the weight off my left leg. I started to self medicate, foregoing food and lost over 30 lbs in a matter of weeks, family begged me to see surgery again, looking back I should have gone earlier - but like you I figured I have had the op and maybe it just takes time.

Went back to see surgeon who admitted me straight away, he was shocked at the weight loss.

And I realise now that no amount of meds, no matter what they are gets rid of THAT pain.

So, after they took me back in they did an MRI and he couldn't distinguish whether the problem was scar tissue or whether it was the disc again - he had a meeting with his colleugues and they decided to give me a steroid injection into the spine, as he thought it was the nerve.

Now his explanation to me was this, because the disc was on the nerve for so long, the nerve acts like a sponge and retains that memory - he reckoned that the injection would "wipe" the memory and it would heal.I was told if it didn't work within 10 days, then it hasn't worked.

I knew immediately that it didn't work but went home anyway - it was a very painful procedure. After a couple of weeks I was again in agony and they took me back in for a second one - this time it worked although it was more painful.
Immediately after the procedure my left leg had a mind of it's own, I wanted to walk one way and it wanted to go the other lol. That's how we knew it worked.

It was in July that I left my house for the first time (not to a hospital or to the doctors) pain free in over 7 months - I did not have a pain free day in that time. It is soul destroying and completely wears you down.

I still have back problems, I suffer from very bad cramps in the leg, it's always at the cusp of a cramp so I can no longer drive Am hoping to get an automatic car shortly.

If I overdo things I am on the floor in agony, the disc is completely gone and I can opt for a fusion down the line (not in the right head space for it now) - it's manageable - but every few weeks I have to get the cocktail of drugs from the doc to settle it down - as painful as it can be now - it hasn't a patch on what I went through.

Hope you're feeling a bit better.

jdee99

@Daltonmd

If it helps I had a three level fusion don least August - L3 - S1 with bone graft from my hip and insertion of rods etc. Got to be honest it has taken away all the back pain but still suffer with leg pain etc but it has truly been worth all of the struggles since. vastly restricted movement in my lower spine but would recommend having it done. Sadly looking at a fusion in my neck shortly - such is life lol

Chuck Stone

A couple of years ago I was crippled with back pain, got an MRI and it was a herniated disc aggravating the sciatic nerve - spirit crushing pain in the leg and buttock. I was in bed for 6 weeks and had to lie down in the car and be driven to appointments - 6 weeks of horror on solpadol and (Jesus I hate that stuff).

I was scheduled to see a specialist to talk about surgery but somehow it just cleared up of its own accord - the specialist was, frankly, astonished.

Reading this thread makes me feel inordinately lucky.

daltonmd

jdee99 wrote: »

@Daltonmd

If it helps I had a three level fusion don least August - L3 - S1 with bone graft from my hip and insertion of rods etc. Got to be honest it has taken away all the back pain but still suffer with leg pain etc but it has truly been worth all of the struggles since. vastly restricted movement in my lower spine but would recommend having it done. Sadly looking at a fusion in my neck shortly - such is life lol

Thanks jdee, I had no idea a fusion was as described? I thought they just join the bone together? I have good days and bad days, mornings are the worse, very restricted movement in the lower spine - have become adapt at rolling myself out of the bed - can no longer sit up and get up...

The worst?

Sneezing. (Even typing it makes me cringe!!)

When are you having the neck fusion?

jdee99

LOL I can relate to sneezing pain not pleasant! I can also relate to not sitting in bed haven't done that in years seeing me get in and out of bed is not a pretty sight (in more ways then one). Fusion can be done in different ways through the front or through the back but it has genuinely made a huge difference to my life. I have DDD throughout the whole of my spine and do not have a single normal disc now - had back problems for 40 years but this has helped me.

Recovery for the fusion was fairly quick - up and about next day albeit on crutches off pain meds within two weeks and gardening within three months (if the consultant knew that I was rotavating the garden he would have gone ballistic). There is hope mate so don't give up.

Seeing the consultant next week to find out about the neck problems and will hopefully get a date for that to be done as well.

daltonmd

jdee99 wrote: »

LOL I can relate to sneezing pain not pleasant! I can also relate to not sitting in bed haven't done that in years seeing me get in and out of bed is not a pretty sight (in more ways then one). Fusion can be done in different ways through the front or through the back but it has genuinely made a huge difference to my life. I have DDD throughout the whole of my spine and do not have a single normal disc now - had back problems for 40 years but this has helped me.

Recovery for the fusion was fairly quick - up and about next day albeit on crutches off pain meds within two weeks and gardening within three months (if the consultant knew that I was rotavating the garden he would have gone ballistic). There is hope mate so don't give up.

Seeing the consultant next week to find out about the neck problems and will hopefully get a date for that to be done as well.

You know, all the "advice" they give you on what to do and not do is fine if you are a millionaire who employs several people to run your home!!

Good luck with the consultant - I'm still undecided about the fusion but I'll certainly think about it some more. Thanks.

apache

I think more emphasis should be placed on the dangers of addictive drugs. 2 months post surgery now and came off the painkillers at the weekend (heavy opiods).
its like a cold turkey i've been having the past few days. Diarrohoea, sweating, chills, fever, pain in legs, apathy, irritability and depression. Haven't slept since i stopped. Exhausted!
I know i should have weaned myself off instead of suddenly stopping. I just wanted to get it over and done with.

daltonmd

apache wrote: »

I think more emphasis should be placed on the dangers of addictive drugs. 2 months post surgery now and came off the painkillers at the weekend (heavy opiods).
its like a cold turkey i've been having the past few days. Diarrohoea, sweating, chills, fever, pain in legs, apathy, irritability and depression. Haven't slept since i stopped. Exhausted!
I know i should have weaned myself off instead of suddenly stopping. I just wanted to get it over and done with.

Remember that well, you need to make sure you're eating well, plenty of fruit - I did the same thing and ended up with a very bad dose. My immune system shot to pieces after the drugs.

Hope you're feeling better soon.

apache

Thanks dalton. Do you know how long roughly it lasts?

daltonmd

apache wrote: »

Thanks dalton. Do you know how long roughly it lasts?

About another week, longer if you get a dose. I, like you, did not wean myself off them, I was on some heavy duty stuff and personally I had enough of the cloudy head from taking the drugs.

Wrap yourself up warm, stay in, buckle down, eat fruit and veg and build yourself up. Try a Lemsip before going to bed, one of the strong ones, I found them great.

If you can't sleep - get up out of the bed, get a glass of milk, watch TV (I found myself dozing for a couple of hours) take any kip you can at whatever time.

If you feel up to it in a few days get out for a walk, get some fresh air. You'll be fine.

Or post on the boards lol!!

apache

Cheers for that. Doing most of that already. Tried the lemsip last night. Don't know if its because of that or that i'm over the hump but slept for 7 hours last night. Delighted! Feeling much better today after 5 days of misery.
Ventered out today for a walk. Going to tackle the housework today.
And the best thing is i'm not popping pills anymore and very little pain and getting back to my old self.
Best to go smack cold turkey and the worst is over in 5 days.
Result!!!!!!!!!
i'm delighted now i did go for the op. I was very dubious about the results. It took me 2 months to get over it but i suppose everybody is different.
Planning now to go back to work in 3 or 4 weeks. Its like a fresh start.....

daltonmd

apache wrote: »

Cheers for that. Doing most of that already. Tried the lemsip last night. Don't know if its because of that or that i'm over the hump but slept for 7 hours last night. Delighted! Feeling much better today after 5 days of misery.
Ventered out today for a walk. Going to tackle the housework today.
And the best thing is i'm not popping pills anymore and very little pain and getting back to my old self.
Best to go smack cold turkey and the worst is over in 5 days.
Result!!!!!!!!!
i'm delighted now i did go for the op. I was very dubious about the results. It took me 2 months to get over it but i suppose everybody is different.
Planning now to go back to work in 3 or 4 weeks. Its like a fresh start.....

Good old lemsips lol. Isn't sleep a marvel!! I am thrilled that you're up and about, it makes you appreciate like a bit more. I'll certainly consider the fusion now, one good thing is that its optional and I won't need another emergency op, very traumatic.

Hope the recoery continues.!!

apache

Unfortunately i'm back to square one. The disc higher up than the one i got operated on before has ruptered very badly. Sick of the pain and consultant telling me it will take time. So got another mri with dye injected last week and sent him results this week. Hes booked up til october but squeezed me in for an emergency appointment monday morning. Hes some dope! Still off work. Will be having words. I know my own body. Not getting fobbed off! Wonder what he will have to say for himself.....
He must have x ray specs to see what is going on in my body! I decided on the mri myself. Thank god i did because these fools just take e200 every time they see you for 5 mins. What is up with that? Still off work and broke and back to the start with a severe prolapsed disc. Like you don't have to be a rocket science to suggest a follow up scan. So ****ing mad. No better woman than me to rip into him on monday. Its allright for him treating us as statistics but we are people who need to pay our mortgage and bills and put food on the table.
Hes a bit scared of me anyway as i had a few rows with him already. Hate this god complex. I think he appreciates it when you bring him back to earth.

Spook_ie

OMG apache.......I am speechless, as you know my OH's experience was great with her neurosurgeon. I was just telling her about your post and she is totally shocked by the care you are receiving or not is probably more appropriate ! We cannot believe that a follow up MRI was not done and you certainly are justified in giving him an earful on Monday. All we can say is good luck on Monday and let us know how you get on.

chattycatty

apache wrote: »

Unfortunately i'm back to square one. The disc higher up than the one i got operated on before has ruptered very badly. Sick of the pain and consultant telling me it will take time. So got another mri with dye injected last week and sent him results this week. Hes booked up til october but squeezed me in for an emergency appointment monday morning. Hes some dope! Still off work. Will be having words. I know my own body. Not getting fobbed off! Wonder what he will have to say for himself.....
He must have x ray specs to see what is going on in my body! I decided on the mri myself. Thank god i did because these fools just take e200 every time they see you for 5 mins. What is up with that? Still off work and broke and back to the start with a severe prolapsed disc. Like you don't have to be a rocket science to suggest a follow up scan. So ****ing mad. No better woman than me to rip into him on monday. Its allright for him treating us as statistics but we are people who need to pay our mortgage and bills and put food on the table.
Hes a bit scared of me anyway as i had a few rows with him already. Hate this god complex. I think he appreciates it when you bring him back to earth.

I would like to know which hospital this is in that the surgeon works from

apache

Spook_ie wrote: »

OMG apache.......I am speechless, as you know my OH's experience was great with her neurosurgeon. I was just telling her about your post and she is totally shocked by the care you are receiving or not is probably more appropriate ! We cannot believe that a follow up MRI was not done and you certainly are justified in giving him an earful on Monday. All we can say is good luck on Monday and let us know how you get on.

hi spook and cheers. i do think its great your partners experience was positive. this is the update - it didn't turn out as planned - i'll try and make it short
monday morning i went for my appointment. before he looked at my latest mri he said he was very worried at the results he had gotten from the radiographer (the written report as i still had the cd rom and he hadn't viewed it). i gave out about not having a follow up mri or proper physio. he dosen't do it. end of story. some do - some don't. i got so annoyed with him. i then calmed down because theres no point and i started to feel a bit guilty because i know i can go off on one.

he put the cd rom into his laptop. it broke his laptop. lol the inside of his laptop disc broke! so off he went to secretarys office to view it while she huffed and puffed :rolleyes: he called me in. he said the radiographers report was wrong and showed me the scans up close. i don't have another slipped disc. he is writing a complaint to the clinic who done my mri. he says its my spine that is pressing on the nerve - the bone not the disc? he says i need a spinal fusion so in 2 weeks time i have an appointment with his colleague who specialises in that so i will have to wait and see what he says.

so i don't have another slipped disc. i walk with a limp and have pain all down my left buttocks and leg BUT i don't have any back pain in the past few weeks. he says a spinal fusion will sort me? dunno he said himself he just deals with slipped discs so will see what happens at my next appointment. oh and its a mr o'brien i am seeing next. can't remember his first name. oh off to google him now.
just did - david o'brien consultant neurosurgeon. so the same as danny rawluk (my last one) just different speciality?

apache

chattycatty wrote: »

I would like to know which hospital this is in that the surgeon works from

i already explained that in an earlier post. hes very well known and top in his game.
theres not that many pages in this thread - prob page 2 or something.

jdee99

Your not having much luck apache! Hopefully you are actually getting a resolution to this - I feel for you. What levels are they likely to fuse? I think I read in one of your earlier posts that you smoke - I guess you already know that that is the prime reason for bone graft fusions not taking. My consultant wont do a fusion if you smoke am please I gave it up years ago now.

apache

thanks jdee.
i am a smoker
you are right though aren't you? i did a bit of research and found out that in 90% of cases the bone graft fails to fuse due to smoking. lack of oxygen etc etc.
i was horrified! i only found that out yesterday. theres no two ways around it - i have to give them up.
i will find out more next friday at appointment but after today i am going to try and kick it.

Spook_ie

Wow apache, that was some consultation !!! but as the saying goes "Doctors differ and patients die"........the two of us here have read you last posting, and one thing that my OH says.......regarding your MRI's.....you obviously had one before the surgery and then the one you organised yourself recently, which at a rough guess are 3 months apart (?).....are you/he saying that the problem that is now visible on the recent MRI, was not present on the original MRI ?....I'd be interested in comparing the two MRI's side by side, it just seems a bit odd......

Anyway, good luck with seeing his colleague in two weeks. OH says she knows its expensive in the likes of the Hermitage, but it just might also be worth getting a second opinion from a consultant in another hospital and bring the two MRI cd's with you. Will keep the fingers crossed for you.

jdee99

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77502450@N08/7839742238/ link to my fusion. Smoking is THE biggest cause of failed fusions and if you wan that then your are going to have to stop if you can. The x-rays are post op 12 months and you can just about make out the start of the fusion - consultant reckons I need to take it easy for another twelve months LOL. IF he knew I was rotating 3 months post op and digging a poly tunnel in 4 months post op he would go ballistic!

Let u know how you get on apache and I wish you well with it all

apache

Spook_ie wrote: »

Wow apache, that was some consultation !!! but as the saying goes "Doctors differ and patients die"........the two of us here have read you last posting, and one thing that my OH says.......regarding your MRI's.....you obviously had one before the surgery and then the one you organised yourself recently, which at a rough guess are 3 months apart (?).....are you/he saying that the problem that is now visible on the recent MRI, was not present on the original MRI ?....I'd be interested in comparing the two MRI's side by side, it just seems a bit odd......

Anyway, good luck with seeing his colleague in two weeks. OH says she knows its expensive in the likes of the Hermitage, but it just might also be worth getting a second opinion from a consultant in another hospital and bring the two MRI cd's with you. Will keep the fingers crossed for you.

yes i know i'm a bit confused myself. sometimes when you are in there even though you write everything down you want to ask you can sometimes get a bit overwhelmed and forget to ask important questions.
he said i have 2 problems. 1 - degenerative disc disease and 2- spondylolisthesis. my understanding is my prior slipped disc which i got operated on 3 months ago was a side effect of having these conditions. it was always there but the slipped disc has made it a lot worse?
Spondylolisthesis is a condition in which a bone (vertebra) in the lower part of the spine slips out of the proper position onto the bone below it. so a mistake was made on the mri? it was not a bulging disc but a bone?
i'm not really sure but i just have to wait til next friday to find out. i'm going to beaumont private and i have my 2 mri scan cds (before and after) to bring with me.
thanks for the support. your oh is lucky to have someone like you who shows such an interest in her condition
because it can get grating. tell her i said that

apache

jdee99 wrote: »

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77502450@N08/7839742238/ link to my fusion. Smoking is THE biggest cause of failed fusions and if you wan that then your are going to have to stop if you can. The x-rays are post op 12 months and you can just about make out the start of the fusion - consultant reckons I need to take it easy for another twelve months LOL. IF he knew I was rotating 3 months post op and digging a poly tunnel in 4 months post op he would go ballistic!

Let u know how you get on apache and I wish you well with it all

wow that looks seriously painful. i'm ****ting it already!
i know i should wait til next friday before worrying but i seriously cannot afford to be out of work much longer. i am 3 months on a very basic sick salary and go down to half pay in another 3 months. i'm not allowed anyway back to work even if i wanted to because of the dr reports sent to the civil service chief medical officer. i am a prison officer so i could get injured which is very likely. anyway i'm no use at the moment

this afternoon (just getting ready to go now) i have appointments with my bank and credit union to see if i can in anyway reduce my mortgage and loan. i bought 5 years ago when i was on big money. now even its hard to get by on a normal wage let alone a basic wage.
how do you survive moneywise after 12 months?
and you say you are digging poly tunnels 4 months post op? i've heard its very painful. is it very bad? how long were you in hospital?

jdee99

@apache funny enough it isnt so bad -- I had a number of previous operations done on my back one of which was an experimental job back in the early 90's called a Graf stabilisation - they basically used 8 screws and wrapped artificial ligaments around the screw heads to try and keep it all in place. Sadly it didnt work and what you see is the end result after the last op. Consultant wanted to screw into each vertebrae but because one lot of old screw holes was close to the edge of the bone he couldnt reuse those holes hence the cross member. To be honest I was not on any pain medication post op (high pain threshold) and I felt ready to come home next day - glad I didnt as the wound split open and it was touch and go as to whether they would have to operate again. They normally would have kept me in hospital for five days but it ended up being ten in total (this was done in the UK).

Pain wise I noticed an instant improvement although I still get sciatica down my right leg but thats been normal for the past 35 years now (first hurt my back in 17 and am now 54). You wont be able to pick up anything heavy (or so I was told) then a small bag of spuds (5lb) for at least a 6 months and it could be up to two years before they know whether the fusion has taken or not. None of this is good news or anything that you want to hear - it certainly isnt a quick fix and if they do it I will be surprised if your back at work within the next six months.

As a matter of interest can the prison service not assign you to a desk job away from any potential trouble - at least post op when the doc has cleared you to go back to work. That way you can be earning again. I took early medical retirement two years ago because of my back (and neck due to have that fused later this year hopefully) so I get a basic pension and have to make do on that - not easy but I will never be able to go back to work again.

THings to do before you have your surgery is to walk as much as you can - and post op - smoking you know about. I dont know how many levels your likely to have done but with three on my back there is a lot of things i cant do know - wipe my @£;$e being one of them LOL I have to time my ablutions so that i can shower straight away (to much information and I apologise to the squeamish).

I travelled from Shropshire in the UK back to Mayo the day they let me out of hospital (car and ferry wasnt allowed to fly) and that was tough going but other then that and taking things easy the pain has been manageable - easy for me to say now but you have to try and beat the bloody thing its so easy to get down over it. 6 weeks post op I was walking 3 miles at a time and fairly active but you have to give the fusion a chance to take - I relied on the screws and rods which probably wasn't the best thing to do - if fact it was stupid the things I did. Poly tunnel being one of them - I just felt so good that I thought I could do anything maybe I shouldnt have as I paid the price afterwards.

If there is anything else I can help you with just ask - if you want to talk pm me your number and I will happily chat to you. I wish you well with the finance side of things - I know its not easy.

Spook_ie

ok...so, the bottom line seems to be that from day one you had both problems.....still seems a shame that he didnt tell you before your first surgery that a simple disectomy might not totally fix your problem, in which case then you may have gone for the fusion & disectomy and therefore not be in the awful predicament that you find yourself in now. Is there anyone that can go with you for the next appointment ? just someone who can sit there and listen to the consultation ? we know that when you are in with Consultants its so easy to forget to ask things or not quite pick up all the things that they are saying. Please let us know how you get on.

BTW told the OH how lucky she is to have me !!!

asark

My 2 pence.
I hope readers of this tread would be open-minded to this. I have been through long term (years) back problem (herniated / bulging disks) until I read this book. Mind you it wasn’t an instant miracle, I still had to do a lot work on myself, but it was certainly the trigger to full recovery. Just entertain the idea of reading this book, It can’t do any harm, can it.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Healing-Back-Pain-Mind--Connection/dp/0446392308/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1345846351&sr=1-1

apache

jesus jaydee you have been through the mill. thanks for sharing - some not so nice parts (but keeping it real).
thanks for information and may take up your kind offer pending outcome on friday.
unfortunately with the croke park agreement and upheaval with civil service there are not many desk jobs available as outside agencies are coming in to take them. but yes the cmo did say i could go back to a desk job. but every day they are moving more people off them so dunno what will happen by the time i'm ready to go back.
i'm in talks with the bank at the moment -an added pressure i don't need- and if they do not offer me a realistic solution (it IS only a temperory measure touch wood) i will just have to cancel the direct debit for my mortgage and pay them what i can afford each month. at least i'm in talks so it looks good on paper that i am trying to find a solution.

christ in a lot of pain these days. hope to find a solution. i think though once they start messing with your back you are ****ed

@spook ya i have a lot of questions i need answered. bit confused about a few things.

@asark - i might download that book for my kindle. it can't do any harm as you say. a lot of it probably has to do with positive thoughts and energy but bit sceptical when surgery is really the only answer.

asark

apache wrote: »

@asark - i might download that book for my kindle. it can't do any harm as you say. a lot of it probably has to do with positive thoughts and energy but bit sceptical when surgery is really the only answer.

It’s completely different from “Positive Thinking” approach. It’s about learning and being aware of unconscious mind-body connection and how the human psyche works.