Creche closed for Funeral

MagicMarker

Fittle wrote: »

That is just a ridiculous argument - the country is not in the ****ter because creche staff die and parents have to pay for the day their child isn't in creche. Your comparison to booking a hotel room is also way off. It's not comparable.

Explain to me how my analogy is in no way comparable.

Tabnabs

MagicMarker would it be fair to say that you don't have kids and/or have never had children in a crèche?

Your posts come across as very juvenile and incredibly mean spirited. I would suggest that your comment about the country being in the state it's in could be equally applied to your thinking, it's completely selfish and lacks any compassion. It's more me féin and less is féidir linn. It's that kind of attitude that got us to where we are today TBH.

OP, maybe you could look at this funeral day and take a positive out of it. Spend some quality time with your child and think about how terrible it must be for the family of the deceased. As there say, there but for the grace of God...

Fittle

MagicMarker wrote: »

Explain to me how my analogy is in no way comparable.

It's already been explained to you by a previous poster.

Daisy M

MagicMarker wrote: »

You're paying for a service and if they can't offer that service then you should get your money back, the circumstances are irrelevant.

Its great to see that your callous attitude is shared by nobody else on this tread, restores my faith in humanity that your opinion on matters like this appears to be in the minority.

stovelid

Sometimes a few quid back in your pocket shouldn't be at the cost of decency and respect. While creches do provide a service, it's not like a supermakret or car-hire company: they're providing care to your children. I have great time for the two women that look after my sons and my sons love them. If one of them died, it would rank considerably higher than a financial inconvenience.

Note: if anybody answers this, I'm only really intetested in the opinions of creche-using parents, thx.

MagicMarker

is mise astra wrote: »

Its great to see that your callous attitude is shared by nobody else on this tread, restores my faith in humanity that your opinion on matters like this appears to be in the minority.

Cry me a river, this is the same callous attitude that wouldn't even need people to request a refund, because I would immediately reimburse anyone who had paid for services which I am unable to provide.

And it's got nothing to do with a ''few quid'' in my back pocket, child care is expensive enough in this country. There will probably be people really effected by this, who don't have the money to spare that now have to fork out extra for an alternative. To even think that these people are ''immoral'' or ''callous'' if they were to ask for a refund is ridiculous beyond the extreme.

Fittle

MagicMarker wrote: »

Cry me a river, this is the same callous attitude that wouldn't even need people to request a refund, because I would immediately reimburse anyone who had paid for services which I am unable to provide.

And it's got nothing to do with a ''few quid'' in my back pocket, child care is expensive enough in this country. There will probably be people really effected by this, who don't have the money to spare that now have to fork out extra for an alternative. To even think that these people are ''immoral'' or ''callous'' if they were to ask for a refund is ridiculous beyond the extreme.

A member of staff has died.
They are closing to go to her funeral.
It's like not they have a leak in their roof:rolleyes:

I doubt very much that the OP has to pay someone else for one days childcare. No other professional childcare facility would take a child in for one day anyway. The OP will probably not have to fork out extra for an alternative and will probably ask a neighbour/family/friend to mind the child.

Ayla

Fittle wrote: »

The OP will probably not have to fork out extra for an alternative and will probably ask a neighbour/family/friend to mind the child.

Or would have to take the day off of work themselves, thus losing a holiday day or taking a day unpaid.

Hannibal Smith

MagicMarker wrote: »

Cry me a river, this is the same callous attitude that wouldn't even need people to request a refund, because I would immediately reimburse anyone who had paid for services which I am unable to provide.

And it's got nothing to do with a ''few quid'' in my back pocket, child care is expensive enough in this country. There will probably be people really effected by this, who don't have the money to spare that now have to fork out extra for an alternative. To even think that these people are ''immoral'' or ''callous'' if they were to ask for a refund is ridiculous beyond the extreme.

Really effected by this how? You pay your creche fees in standard monthly/weekly instalments so it's like money out of your account already. it's like asking your landlord to refund you your rent when you're gone on holiday

When some one has died you don't start spouting about your own out of pocket expenses, it's just bad manners! Is that what the country has come to now, household budgets take precedents over common courtesy?

If you're that selfish to start harping on about how much that effects you, then I really have no sympathy for you at all. My sympathy would be reserved for the families and friends of the lady who died.

Hannibal Smith

Ayla wrote: »

Or would have to take the day off of work themselves, thus losing a holiday day or taking a day unpaid.

you do that when your kid is sick anyhow. When you're a working parent you take these unforeseen eventualities on the chin.

Ayla

I think the point MagicMarker is trying to make is that the creche (although for very valid reasons) did not provide a service on a day that they've charged their customers for. The annual holidays would have been contractually agreed upon at the start, but for the creche to close at a moment's notice (be it for a funeral or a leaky roof) they would still be legally entitled to collect payment from their customers.

For those customers who can't afford a day off work, or don't have a support/family network, or have to double pay for a sitter, I can understand why someone would look for a refund for that day.

Now, don't jump on me, I understand there is a very human element in this particular situation, but try to take it out of that context for a moment - would anyone be looking for a refund if the creche closed due to a leaking roof?

it's like asking your landlord to refund you your rent when you're gone on holiday

No it's not - in your situation the paying customer is choosing not to use the service they're paying for. A more accurate comparison would be if you're paying your rent but the landlord uses the space to house someone else for the weekend.

Justask

How much are we talking about here? I dont have a child in creche.

How much is one day creche fees?

Some people are making out they are missing out on hundreds

Ayla

When my daughter was in creche a few years ago it was €35/day.

Can't speak for anyone else, but that's big money for us if it's being wasted paying for a service that's not being provided.

Fittle

Justask wrote: »

How much are we talking about here? I dont have a child in creche.

How much is one day creche fees?

Some people are making out they are missing out on hundreds

Maximum of 40euro I would imagine:rolleyes:

Fittle

Ayla wrote: »

Or would have to take the day off of work themselves, thus losing a holiday day or taking a day unpaid.

Which is what working parents tend to use their annual leave for anyway! I know I do! I had to take a day off the day the teacher died at my sons school - but I most certainly wasn't complaining about about 'losing' a days annual leave when there was a whole classroom of boys devastated at the loss of their teacher and a wife and children devastated at the loss of their father/husband. Seriously, get things in perspective and have some human decency!

Shelli2

Ayla wrote: »

Now, don't jump on me, I understand there is a very human element in this particular situation, but try to take it out of that context for a moment - would anyone be looking for a refund if the creche closed due to a leaking roof?

Its not possible to take it out of that context, that's what the OPS question is, should she pay if they close for a funeral?
Answer: yes. (legally probably not, but morally yes)

leaking roof, no way. but that's not the question.

The relationship a person had with their childrens creche is unlike any other business, and not comparable to any other situation. These are people you trust your childrens lives and well being to every day!

Noo

Another question is how many parents would except a refund?

How would you react if you got a letter or something saying that due to the death of a member of staff we will be closing for the day of the funeral. All parents will be refunded for that one day.

Tbh i'd feel pretty sh*tty about that and tell them not to worry about it.

Justask

Ok so let say 35 40 euro.... its one day, its not as if it happens all the time. A staff member died.... were is the compassion

Everyone is struggling in this counrty at the moment but for god sake lets put things into prospective. Its called respect

Ayla

Geez, don't make me out to be a callous cow here. I understand the tragedy of the situation, and if it were me personally I'd probably let it slide too.

I'm just saying that we shouldn't judge other people too harshly if they look for their money back.

I'm not generally in the habit of paying for services I don't receive, but in this situation it would be hard on everyone involved if the refund of money was discussed. Personally, if I was the creche owner, after the shock passes, I would take it upon myself to refund the customers myself...that's good for professional reputation and future business. It would be up to the creche then to absorb whatever costs of not being open for the day would have been...why should the customer pay?

sellerbarry

Jasus i've heard it all now. What a heartless, disrespectful thread to start OP. The woman died for gods sake.:rolleyes:

Ayla

Let this be fully clear:

1) Yes it is very sad the woman died

2) Yes the workers of the creche - who presumably would have been her friends - will be grieving and would want to go to the funeral (and rightly so!)

3) All of the payments collected from the customers (after paying one holiday day to the staff attending the funeral) will go into the pocket of management.

4) Parents needed to make alternate arrangements for the care of their child for that day, possibly at an additional cost to themselves

5) Parents pay, management pockets.

Heartless, disrespectful of the parents? I don't think so. Take the tragic situation out of the equation and all the parents would be enraged for getting ripped off.

Fittle

Ayla wrote: »

Let this be fully clear:

Heartless, disrespectful of the parents? I don't think so. Take the tragic situation out of the equation and all the parents would be enraged for getting ripped off.

But that's the point.
You can't 'take the tragic situation out of the equation'. Because it IS the issue at hand. You are not comparing like with like.

Ayla

Ok, fine then. I'd say everyone's just about had their say then. :rolleyes:

Moonbeam

Out of interest as it closes for holidays,is it a community creche or another such not for profit creche?

Tayla

I don't necessarily think the parents should have to pay for the day if it is closed for a funeral. Some parents might be ok missing out on the day but others might have to pay someone else to mind their child that day and so might end up paying out money that they do not have.

If my child was in creche and a colleague of mine died and my child missed a day because of the funeral then I would still have to pay for the day (and wouldn't be getting charged for a day less out of sympathy)

If it was me then yes i'd pay it but I don't think people should be called heartless if they don't want to.

Hannibal Smith

Ayla wrote: »

I think the point MagicMarker is trying to make is that the creche (although for very valid reasons) did not provide a service on a day that they've charged their customers for. The annual holidays would have been contractually agreed upon at the start, but for the creche to close at a moment's notice (be it for a funeral or a leaky roof) they would still be legally entitled to collect payment from their customers.

For those customers who can't afford a day off work, or don't have a support/family network, or have to double pay for a sitter, I can understand why someone would look for a refund for that day.

Now, don't jump on me, I understand there is a very human element in this particular situation, but try to take it out of that context for a moment - would anyone be looking for a refund if the creche closed due to a leaking roof?

it's like asking your landlord to refund you your rent when you're gone on holiday

No it's not - in your situation the paying customer is choosing not to use the service they're paying for. A more accurate comparison would be if you're paying your rent but the landlord uses the space to house someone else for the weekend.

I know and understand exactly the point magic marker is making...I just don't agree with it.

If the op wants to go and ask for a refund so be it. But its a pretty stingy thing to do.

I find it odd people would think it was ok, or would try to defend it.

Hannibal Smith

Noo wrote: »

Another question is how many parents would except a refund?

How would you react if you got a letter or something saying that due to the death of a member of staff we will be closing for the day of the funeral. All parents will be refunded for that one day.

Tbh i'd feel pretty sh*tty about that and tell them not to worry about it.

I think I'd donate the money towards flowers for the funeral

username123

While I probably wouldnt go looking for a refund I do think that the owners of the creche should offer refunds - their business is not providing a service on a particular day - and it is irrelevant what the reason is.

To look at it from another perspective, if I used a particular taxi driver daily and paid him to take me from A to B and on one day he couldnt come because he was attending the funeral of a friend or family member, I would use another taxi. I would not expect to pay the first guy for the day I didnt see him as he didnt provide the service on that day.

Thats it - its a business arrangement and the OP is perfectly entitled to ask for a refund for the non provision of the contractually agreed service - regardless of the reason the service wasnt provided.

I do agree with other posters in that I probably would let it slide myself or send something with the money even if it was refunded but the bottom line is, yes, a very sad situation, but no, you should not expect to pay for services not provided.

aniascor

Depending on what part of the country you live in, and what age your child is, a single day in creche can cost between 45 and 60 euro. If you don't leave near family, and you don't know your neighbours well, (which is the case for a lot of people living in newer estates), then it's quite possible there wouldn't be anyone available to mind your child for free as a few posters have suggested. If you weren't in a position to take time off work, and you had to pay for a babysitter for the day, that could be as much as EUR10 an hour, unless you have a babysitter who is will to work for a flat rate amount for the day. And plenty of people just don't have that money to spare.

Personally, I wouldn't ask for a refund - but I would expect the creche to offer it because I think it would be a good business practice for them to do so. If the creche didn't offer it, I would think it was very bad form on the part of the creche management.

Stench Blossoms

It would be interesting to know if the workers in the creche who are going to the funeral are getting paid or not.

If they weren't I'd be looking for a refund.