Creche closed for Funeral

Tabnabs

Ayla wrote: »

Let this be fully clear:

1) Yes it is very sad the woman died

2) Yes the workers of the creche - who presumably would have been her friends - will be grieving and would want to go to the funeral (and rightly so!)

3) All of the payments collected from the customers (after paying one holiday day to the staff attending the funeral) will go into the pocket of management.

4) Parents needed to make alternate arrangements for the care of their child for that day, possibly at an additional cost to themselves

5) Parents pay, management pockets.

Heartless, disrespectful of the parents? I don't think so. Take the tragic situation out of the equation and all the parents would be enraged for getting ripped off.

It's pretty clear from your post that you really have no understanding of how a small business works. Rent, insurance, wages, utility bills, loan repayments, supplies and on and on an on. I think you're mixing up monopoly and the real world...

Tabnabs

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

It would be interesting to know if the workers in the creche who are going to the funeral are getting paid or not.

If they weren't I'd be looking for a refund.

You think the manager would really say; "sure go to the funeral of our former colleague, but by God don't come looking for pay..."

This is a crèche, they look after the well being of babies and small children, not an Asian sweatshop where the kids make runners and t-shirts!

Considers niche Irish business model

Truley

I am a creche worker and something similar happened to us whereby the creche was closed for a day at very short notice due to the death of a member of staff's mother (very long serving member of staff and she and the mother was very well known/liked.)

Personally I can empathize with the OP for feeling the way she does about paying for a service she's not getting. Not to mention footing the cost of making alternative arrangements/loss of wages etc. Especially considering the owners of the creche are still going to be making money from the day.

So you could turn it around and say that it's scabby of the management to use this bereavement as a reason to charge parents keeping in mind the management are not only making money from this day but making a substantially larger profit by saving on running costs such as heat/food/laundry etc

Heartless, maybe. But this is coming from someone who very recently lost a parent in tragic circumstance and I know if I was a business owner I would never use it as an excuse to hold on to my customers' money and make a saving when I haven't provided the service. Many of the parents might not have even known the person that died.

MagicMarker

Tabnabs wrote: »

It's pretty clear from your post that you really have no understanding of how a small business works. Rent, insurance, wages, utility bills, loan repayments, supplies and on and on an on. I think you're mixing up monopoly and the real world...

Jesus christ, the point made was pretty clear cut. Based on this retarded logic, why don't they take the whole month off and charge the customers anyway, sure the money will only go to rent, utility bills, insurance so that's alright then. :rolleyes:

doubleglaze

This thread belongs, in my view, to the thread "Stingiest thing you have seen stingy people do".

Tabnabs

MagicMarker wrote: »

Jesus christ, the point made was pretty clear cut. Based on this retarded logic, why don't they take the whole month off and charge the customers anyway, sure the money will only go to rent, utility bills, insurance so that's alright then. :rolleyes:

Another insightful post and well crafted argument. I salute your debating skills

I'll see your :rolleyes: and raise you :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Ayla

Tabnabs wrote: »

It's pretty clear from your post that you really have no understanding of how a small business works. Rent, insurance, wages, utility bills, loan repayments, supplies and on and on an on. I think you're mixing up monopoly and the real world...

Wow, you have no idea of what my understanding is, but way to make a overgeneralized assumption.

Take this as an example...say you hire a baker to make a special cake for a big event coming up. On the day of the event, you discover the baker's mother just passed away, and because of it, they weren't able to make your cake.

Well, obviously, you'd feel for the baker...you'd sympathise & understand (even through your personal disappointment that now your missing a cake). But would you tell the baker, ah, sure, just keep the money I already paid for the cake you didn't make? Or would you expect it a professional courtesy that the baker refund you?

cbyrd

Do you pay them by the day?

As far as i'm aware what you are paying for is the childs place in the creche and not per day.. check your contract with them but to be honest with you complaining that someone died ?? i'm sure the lady could've been a bit more reasonable and died close to the weekend..
Do you deduct if your child does not attend creche due to illness? same rules apply..
It would be incredibly insensitive to ask for a refund

Ayla

cbyrd wrote: »

Do you pay them by the day?

Some people do, yes. Those who are not in the creche full time.

Do you deduct if your child does not attend creche due to illness? same rules apply..

No they don't. In your situation you are choosing not to use the facilities, you're not having them taken away from you.

Tabnabs

Ayla wrote: »

Wow, you have no idea of what my understanding is, but way to make a overgeneralized assumption.

Take this as an example...say you hire a baker to make a special cake for a big event coming up. On the day of the event, you discover the baker's mother just passed away, and because of it, they weren't able to make your cake.

Well, obviously, you'd feel for the baker...you'd sympathise & understand (even through your personal disappointment that now your missing a cake). But would you tell the baker, ah, sure, just keep the money I already paid for the cake you didn't make? Or would you expect it a professional courtesy that the baker refund you?

Lol, I like this game. Wait, I've one too:

Your brother is building you your dream home, it will take 12 months to complete. His van breaks down on the other side of the county and he misses a days work.

Well, obviously, you'd feel for your brother...you'd sympathise & understand (even through your personal disappointment that now your house will finished in 366 days). But would you tell the brother, ah, sure, just re-invoice me, I've already paid for the house that you delayed making? Or would you expect it a professional courtesy that you took the wider context of the situation into account and did not peruse the matter further?

Hannibal Smith

This thread has become ridiculous. I don't know why you're all trying to pointscore off each other, the OP got her replies, surely you're all just going around in circles at this point?

To those who feel begrudged by losing out on a day's creche service, go ask for your refund. Who cares what people think at the end of the day.

For the others who are trying to explain their point by using different examples, the question the op was asking was clear was it not? The woman died, the creche is closed, should she ask for a refund. Can you not just respond to that without trying to complicate the issue with hypotheticals that have no relevance to the question whatsoever?!

For others who are saying 'you choose not to put your child in if it's sick so you still have to pay', that's rubbish, sometimes your child is ill but perfectly able to attend, but because of creche policy they're not allowed through the door, understandably so as they don't effect other kids. So it's not you choosing not to put your kid in creche that day it's creche policy.

I can't believe people think of a creche as another business tbh:cool:

leeroybrown

If the OP were to ask for a refund for the day they should pretty much also find another creché as they're likely to cause quite a lot of offence and hurt to the staff who look after their child every day.

The reason the creché is closing is pretty simple. Crechés have fairly strict requirements regarding the number of staff per child and their qualifications so staying open during the funeral at short notice would basically require that they tell their staff that they can't attend the funeral. If management at my workplace told me I'd have to work during a former colleague and friend's funeral I'd just tell them I'm going to the funeral and they could decide if I had a job or not after I got back. That's not a joke.

In an ideal world the creché management would refund the day's costs but this is an unforeseeable event like an outbreak of illness that's causing one day's unavoidable loss of service during a full year of it. I could understand a complaint if losses of service like this were regular or if it was something like a hotel where an individual day's service were booked, but it's not. The business is no better off because it closes for the day.

Daisy M

Ayla wrote: »

Wow, you have no idea of what my understanding is, but way to make a overgeneralized assumption.

Take this as an example...say you hire a baker to make a special cake for a big event coming up. On the day of the event, you discover the baker's mother just passed away, and because of it, they weren't able to make your cake.

Well, obviously, you'd feel for the baker...you'd sympathise & understand (even through your personal disappointment that now your missing a cake). But would you tell the baker, ah, sure, just keep the money I already paid for the cake you didn't make? Or would you expect it a professional courtesy that the baker refund you?

Honestly there is no point trying to compare this scenario to a different one altogether. The facts are a lady in the creche who cared for the ops child has died, the creche is closed for her funeral as a mark of respect and so her fellow employees can attend. The op asked would it be ok to ask for a refund and that is the issue in hand.
Ayla I understand from other posts that money is tight for your family at the moment and you are looking at this from the point of view of someone who would find it hard if not near impossible to raise the money to pay someone else to mind the child for the day. (please correct me if I am wrong on that one I am not trying to offend you:)) So while I believe parents in the creche should not ask for a refund due to the sad circumstances, I can understand that there are some parents who may have no choice.

Ayla

I love how everyone's making me to be this horribly immoral and completely insensitive moneygrubber. I've already said that I personally would have let the entire situation slide, but my entire point of joining this (agreeably ridiculous) thread was that people need to get off their flipping high horses & stop judging everyone else!

The OP asked a question and from the very beginning she was getting berated for being a horribly insensitive person.

And Hannibal - a creche is a business, pure and simple. It is usually a very profitable business. Parents get wrapped up in them emotionally b/c the creche frequently sees their kids more than they do themselves, but for the management of the creche it is a business. Maybe one they enjoy, but it is a busines with profit/loss accounts at the end of each fiscal year.

Is mise astra - yes, money in my family is tight. It's never been any other way but I'd hardly complain about it. I appreciate how you're trying to see this viewpoint.

Think of me what you will but I've made my points: If I was the OP I wouldn't personally ask for a refund but I would hope the creche would do something to reimburse its customers for the service they weren't able to provide. I also think it's shameful that anyone here has the audacity to judge someone else who needs that money. Done.

nikkibikki

In the OP's defence, I think that the fact that the creche closes during summer and at Xmas and expect payment for these days also is making them feel a bit angry about them closing for another day and expecting payment. Ie if they didn't close at these times then the OP would be prepared to leave this funeral day go and say nothing about it. Any place that I've worked that has customers/clients that relied on them daily has to rotate the annual leave that their staff can take to ensure that the customers/clients needs are met. TBH if I was using that creche I'd move my child if I could, not coz of the funeral day but coz of the other days. They should be able to rotate their staff hols, and I'm sure the staff would appreciate being able to take time off when they want to also as opposed to being told when they can and can't. The creche I use for my child are brilliant, they only close on BH's, even around Xmas. Of course I pay for these BH's and I've no problem doing this. If I'm off for a BH I get paid, I do have to work one or 2 a year though but hubby doesn't so it's grand. And the cost of annual leave should be reflected in the weekly fee as I think it's very unfair to close a creche for a week when parents are working and then expect them to pay for it, I don't see this as them being reliable and this reliability something that you need from a creche, it's hard enough being a working parent.

Hannibal Smith

Ayla wrote: »

I love how everyone's making me to be this horribly immoral and completely insensitive moneygrubber. I've already said that I personally would have let the entire situation slide, but my entire point of joining this (agreeably ridiculous) thread was that people need to get off their flipping high horses & stop judging everyone else!

The OP asked a question and from the very beginning she was getting berated for being a horribly insensitive person.

And Hannibal - a creche is a business, pure and simple. It is usually a very profitable business. Parents get wrapped up in them emotionally b/c the creche frequently sees their kids more than they do themselves, but for the management of the creche it is a business. Maybe one they enjoy, but it is a busines with profit/loss accounts at the end of each fiscal year.
.

Who's making you out to be the bad person? If you want to sandwich yourself between two different points that were well established before you joined the thread, then that's up to you, but don't then boohoo about it when you find others disagreeing with you.

Having compassion and consideration is not jumping on a high horse. And I'm going to leave the creche is a business comment alone because it's another thread but anyone who has a good relationship with their creche knows exactly how different it is to any other business.

Truley

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

Having compassion and consideration is not jumping on a high horse.

Look there really is no right or wrong viewpoint to this scenario. Implying that to empathize with the OP = not being compassionate is a bit high horse tbh

Hannibal Smith

Truley wrote: »

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

Having compassion and consideration is not jumping on a high horse.

Look there really is no right or wrong viewpoint to this scenario. Implying that to empathize with the OP = not being compassionate is a bit high horse tbh

If you consider that high horse, that's completely your prerogative I can live with that...its nothing compared to what I think of a person asking for a refund from a creche that closed because the staff wanted to attend the funeral of a deceased colleague. If that sits me on a high horse...i'll gladly sit here and enjoy the view

Moonbeam

Did the creche offer refunds for the day?

twinkie

Gosh didn't realise that my post would cause such a stir.
Firstly doubleglaze I don't see how it is stingy to pay for a service that I did not receive and had to pay someone else to provide instead. As a previous poster said not everyone is lucky enough to have family/friends nearby that would be free to mind a child at short notice and as such are left to pay twice for the day.

Realistically I would probably never actually ask for the refund but it is this closure coupled with the other 2 weeks that has angered me. I have also recently been informed that they closed a fair bit last winter with the snow. Yes we did know about the 2 weeks when we booked in but were not happy with it. I understand that it was exceptional circumstances but I want to clarify that I did not know the lady and she has been out sick from before my daughter started at the creche.

We live in a village and this is the only available creche for us so we don't have the choice of finding another one unless we want to have our daughter commute with me. Yes it is a community creche but it is not any cheaper than a private creche and is in fact dearer than some creches that I looked at in Kilkenny.

Also where I work I would NOT get a day off to attend the funneral of a work collegue and I'm sure there are also other in industries which provide services that would not get it off either.

Justask

To be fair Twinkle I dont know of any school/creche that didn't close during the snow last winter.

Are the other parent saying the same re the funeral and refund?

twinkie

The reason I mentioned the comment re: closing due to snow/weather is because the creche near where I work DID NOT close due to weather AND a collegue of mine told me her son's creche only closed for one half day. I'm going by what I have heard from my friends and co workers. i have to work in the snow,my husband has to also, the creche seems to shut at the drop of a hat, this is hardly the norm with all creches?

The creche worker who died, God rest her, was expected to die for the last 10 days before the funeral, surely this was ample time to put a contingency plan in place? We were not even aware/informed a worker was ill, untill she died. To be fair, the funeral could have been attended by the staff and the creche opened for the half day even. At least it would have been an effort and showed willingness to meet half way. It was never about the money, but the principles involved.

Justask

twinkie wrote: »

The reason I mentioned the comment re: closing due to snow/weather is because the creche near where I work DID NOT close due to weather AND a collegue of mine told me her son's creche only closed for one half day. I'm going by what I have heard from my friends and co workers. i have to work in the snow,my husband has to also, the creche seems to shut at the drop of a hat, this is hardly the norm with all creches?

The creche worker who died, God rest her, was expected to die for the last 10 days before the funeral, surely this was ample time to put a contingency plan in place? We were not even aware/informed a worker was ill, untill she died. To be fair, the funeral could have been attended by the staff and the creche opened for the half day even. At least it would have been an effort and showed willingness to meet half way. It was never about the money, but the principles involved.

To be honest if I was this unhappy about where my child attended yes I would have them travel with me to another creche where I was happier JMO

twinkie

Justask I am 110% happy with the creche in all other aspects. My daughter receives top class care there. The facilities and staff are wonderful and wouldn't dare take her out just over this. I was just wondering was it the norn for all creches to have these closures?

bmarley

I work in this area. Parents are never asked to pay for facility when it is closed.
While we do close for holidays, parents do not pay during closures. I would ask to see the policies in relation to this.

LegacyUser

so did you hve to incur extra costs to get your child minded?

Hannibal Smith

bmarley wrote: »

I work in this area. Parents are never asked to pay for facility when it is closed.
While we do close for holidays, parents do not pay during closures. I would ask to see the policies in relation to this.

Out creche is closed for a week at Christmas and we still have to pay for it.

If you've already signed up to these closures OP there's no point in letting these closures colour your dealings with the creche. You were aware of them before signing up.

It sounds like a small creche with limited staff, is it? Do they have to travel a distance to get there?

Moonbeam

They probably break the cost down by 52 rather the 49.
The op knew this choosing the creche so it shouldn't be an issue.
It is also a community creche which are usually registered charities and run not for profit.If there is an issue it can be reported to the board of management.
The other issue with community creches is that as they are subsidised for those on social welfare alot of parents take their kids out for the summer because they are not in college etc.

nikkibikki

Justask wrote: »

To be fair Twinkle I dont know of any school/creche that didn't close during the snow last winter.

Are the other parent saying the same re the funeral and refund?

Mine didn't close for even a half day during the really bad weather, and it was REALLY bad here, I had to stay overnight a few nights where I work (about 30 miles from home.) Yes lots of schools closed, but these are educations centres as opposed to childcare facilities that you pay for out of an already diminished wage.....


And my creche only close for Bank Holidays even at Christmas, so it's convenient, reliable as well as being a first rate facility so it's ticking all the boxes for me.