Kerry Co-op meeting

PMU

cidlyledlights wrote: »

if you just think everyone are searching for one deal , that will be bad for you, because many people are honest and legal person in business .
if you don't believe other, that means you don't believe yourself .

troll

5live

Chiarrai_abu wrote: »

lads dont get too sure of a yes vote, we had a great meeting last week, all the no supporters around Castleisland and we might soften Stan McCarthys cough at the next meeting. We have great support, I thought we mighnt but we do, we might be causing a big upset to the bookies with our plans.

There will be fun there alright. We tried to hold a meeting here but werent allowed access to the shareholder list to send notification and the directors were otherwise 'occupied' (presumably picking up stans bags from shannon:)) so we are going to as many as we can.

Funny thing is the list of shareholders is priviliged information, so fair enough, but anyone and i mean anyone running for election in kerry is allowed access to the list. Funny that:rolleyes:

Its going to be close and a lot will depend on what stan can pull from the bag on milk price. I heard yesterday the lad that gave him the option of voting yes to the vote and seeing what comes the next day is getting a bit of grief from his neighbours. I dont agree with that but there is the option to vote no again coming up

5live

kerryted wrote: »

5live Are you thinking of living for ever, hoarding those shares like they were gold bars or something you should enjoy your wind fall while you can live for today and let tomorrow look after itself :D:D

Farming isnt a one year occupation. Next year is important as important as this year is and so is 10 and 20 years time. Shares are off farm so dont have any bearing on my farming business.

And yes i aim to live forever. Or die trying.........:pac:

5live

you2 wrote: »

If the suppliers feel that strongly about retaining control of the co-op why dont you just convert the B & C shares to plc & retain the suppliers(A) actual percentage holding of the group as it is?

Think theres enough milking going on in Kerry Co-op as it is;)!!

Now that would be a great idea. We lose half our holding while losing control of our business. Damn. I wish i had thought of that:p

you2

5live wrote: »

Now that would be a great idea. We lose half our holding while losing control of our business. Damn. I wish i had thought of that:p

Sure vote No - you will be gauranteed a worse milk price & no share windfall for your fellow suppliers! the group will suffer due to lack of investor attraction! & rumour has it the B & Cs are getting organised to mount a viable legal challenge to the no voting rights issue(only a rumour mind you;);))!! Great deal for all good luck to you.

kerryted

you2 wrote: »

Sure vote No - you will be gauranteed a worse milk price & no share windfall for your fellow suppliers! the group will suffer due to lack of investor attraction! & rumour has it the B & Cs are getting organised to mount a viable legal challenge to the no voting rights issue(only a rumour mind you;);))!! Great deal for all good luck to you.

you are wasting your time with those lads they are not for turning we were lucky these boys were not around in the 70s and 80 , progress would have been slow they would be still milking the 5 or 6 cows and going to the creamery with a horse and cart .if they were wise they would be thinking turning those shares into land and milking more cows expand expand thats the kerry way

5live

kerryted wrote: »

you are wasting your time with those lads they are not for turning ... they would be still milking the 5 or 6 cows and going to the creamery with a horse and cart

Instead of selling up and turning into B and C shareholders?:D

5live

Latest rumour is kerry have agreed to match leading milk price. Now i got it from local and clare sources so you boys might get your wish yet. But if you dont mind, i wont ask you to sell my cattle in the mart. You mightnt know it but it wouldnt be the accepted practice to accept the first bid when the animals go into the ring;):rolleyes:

kerryted

5live wrote: »

Latest rumour is kerry have agreed to match leading milk price. Now i got it from local and clare sources so you boys might get your wish yet. But if you dont mind, i wont ask you to sell my cattle in the mart. You mightnt know it but it wouldnt be the accepted practice to accept the first bid when the animals go into the ring;):rolleyes:

atlast you are starting to see some sense turning a share that is worth 80 euro in to 200 euro and maybe more or less the market will sort that one out , I did not wait long in school but i know thats a good deal

kerrymilk

5live any information on the change to rule 4(h) is this still the same where only 50% of A and B share holders vote is required to reduce holding below 10%?

5live

kerrymilk wrote: »

5live any information on the change to rule 4(h) is this still the same where only 50% of A and B share holders vote is required to reduce holding below 10%?

Afraid that is set in stone. That is the actual amendment we have to vote on. The whole milk price transparency is an issue that has been going on a while and the vote was used to get traction on this.

At the minute i am as close as i ever was to voting yes but a lot will depend on what is in the small print in the meeting and if the agreement is off the table with a no vote. I still dont like ceding that much control to people who are falling over themselves to complete the conversion regardless of the price or any other issues:(

BannerBarry

Everyone is making a big issue of the B shareholders having a vote.

"B" Kerry Co Op shareholders have a vote on all other Co Op issues, can attend AGM's, rank the same as "A" shareholders in every other way except for rule 4(H). They are now aligning this 4(H) rule the same as all other rules.

5Live, if you are worried about Kerry Co Op shareholders loosing PLC power then vote NO in September to reducing the Kerry Co Op directors on the Kerry Group PLC board from 7 to 4. I'm voting NO to that.

You can still vote yes tuesday week; Get your Group shares and hold them, use them as security for a loan, cash them in and pay bills, etc.

Banks do not accept Co Op shares as security for a loan (I know this from my farm loan experience) as they are unquoted.

5live

BannerBarry wrote: »

Everyone is making a big issue of the B shareholders having a vote.

"B" Kerry Co Op shareholders have a vote on all other Co Op issues, can attend AGM's, rank the same as "A" shareholders in every other way except for rule 4(H). They are now aligning this 4(H) rule the same as all other rules.

5Live, if you are worried about Kerry Co Op shareholders loosing PLC power then vote NO in September to reducing the Kerry Co Op directors on the Kerry Group PLC board from 7 to 4. I'm voting NO to that.

You can still vote yes tuesday week; Get your Group shares and hold them, use them as security for a loan, cash them in and pay bills, etc.

Banks do not accept Co Op shares as security for a loan (I know this from my farm loan experience) as they are unquoted.

Out of curiosity, would you invest in a compay where a shareholder with 18 % of the shares has over 50 % of the board? I know i wouldnt.

If the 4h rule is passed then it stands to reason that the reduction in board members has to go through also or the share price risks freefall as the new rules on corporate governance will be breached. Then funds wont buy and invest in the company and holders may be 'forced' to sell their holdings to retain their investors confidence. Where will the share price go then, do you think?

kerrymilk

The wording I have got on the offer on milk pricing is they will offer a like for like milk pricing, I feel this could mean anything also there is noting in writing. Kerry Group are having a meeting with the IFA on Monday , I also believe that if Kerry co –op holding falls below 22% the number of directors will also have to be reduced as this can be enforced by company law.

Chiarrai_abu

We are going to have a Co op meeting of No men in Killarney next Thursday evening. Let me know if you want to drop in. There's nothing happening on the leading milk price so time to take action. McCarthy will try and spring it on us Tuesday week when we haven't time to react. Vote no supporters drop me a mail

milkprofit

Rember what happened with Dairygold liquid milk-letter on side -
and glanbia where they led liquid milk price
Dont Say U were not warned
Get it- milk price - written in BLOOD then it might hold up

5live

milkprofit wrote: »

Rember what happened with Dairygold liquid milk-letter on side -
and glanbia where they led liquid milk price
Dont Say U were not warned
Get it- milk price - written in BLOOD then it might hold up

. Was texting another boards guy yesterday and my thinking was to get it written in blood on stans soul for it to carry much weight. Where has trust gone? Most of the guys i deal with i trust or i wouldnt do much business with them. The big exception is kerry. I have a few interesting stories about my time with them.......:eek::eek::eek:

kerrymilk

Chiarrai_abu wrote: »

We are going to have a Co op meeting of No men in Killarney next Thursday evening. Let me know if you want to drop in. There's nothing happening on the leading milk price so time to take action. McCarthy will try and spring it on us Tuesday week when we haven't time to react. Vote no supporters drop me a mail

I would be interested can you send time and location of meeting to emscanlon@eircom.net

Thanks

kerrymilk

IFA are taking out ads in Farmers Journal to advise members to vote yes. What did they get?? No independent audit on milk price, no progress on rule 4(h) and nothing in writing for the milk supplier. Beware !!!!
Meeting in Farronfore Tuesday 9th in Sherwoods Bar at 9 p.m. for all concerned.

5live

kerrymilk wrote: »

IFA are taking out ads in Farmers Journal to advise members to vote yes. What did they get?? No independent audit on milk price, no progress on rule 4(h) and nothing in writing for the milk supplier. Beware !!!!
Meeting in Farronfore Tuesday 9th in Sherwoods Bar at 9 p.m. for all concerned.

There is no confirmation (or denial) on the journal ads. Can you PM a few details please or i can meet you in ulicks;) tonight (showing my age:rolleyes:)

5live

Just heard IFA are NOT taking out ads either in favour or against the proposal.

Look lads be careful what you post and be able to back up what you post. There is a whole lot i have heard in last few days that i would love to put up here but i only have 1 or 2 guys i trust enough to believe. But if only a fraction of it is true ............:eek:

5live

Was at the meeting in farranfore last night. And it wasnt a no meeting. It was an information meeting to fill the vaccum of absolutely no information coming from our representatives. It seems to be breaking down as IFA v ICMSA at the minute. 2 prominent ICMSA members came out in favour while the rank and file IFA are very suspicious.

On friday it was announced kerry would pay the leading milk price in the country. By tuesday that had changed to the leading milk price of major processors. What will it have become by this time next week?

The formula for calculating the milk price league on summer/kerry profile wont be agreed until after the vote. But it will be included in the milk contract.

So it will take a huge leap of faith to vote yes while not seeing any figures or formula for calculating the comparison imo.

Also it was said that if it is defeated then stan wont look for a conversion again after getting his ass kicked once so it will be a few years down the line before it would come up again. (Seems like we picked a CE with a very sensitive bottom, if that comment turns out to be true:rolleyes:)

We only have negotiating power until 5pm next tuesday. Once we vote, whether yes or no, we have nothing they need so our power is gone. So not having figures before then is ,imo, a huge disadvantage in negotiating a formula.

Expect a letter this week with some information in it (i forget what exactly is in it, head a bit muddled this morning)

And another meeting in sherwoods in farranfore is being arranged on thursday night at 9 (sorry killarney lads) with John O Callaghan expected but that to be confirmed

BannerBarry

By Joe Dermody
Tuesday, August 09, 2011
KERRY Group has given firm commitments on milk price and any capital investments required for future processing at strategy meetings with farmer groups in Dublin yesterday.
The IFA and the ICMSA particularly welcomed Kerry Group chief executive Stan McCarthy’s promise to pay farmers the market-leading price per litre for milk during the February to October high grass-growing season. This commitment is likely to be formalised by early 2012, if not before the end of this year.

For farmers in the group’s core Kingdom hinterland, this will give the confidence boost they have been seeking to plan for expansion in the 2015 post-quota era. It will also virtually guarantee that Kerry Co-op members will confirm the transfer of 25% of their shares to the plc, scheduled to be rubber stamped at a meeting in Tralee on August 16.

As ICMSA president, Jackie Cahill, explained: "The transparency in terms of the commitment on milk price has to be welcomed.

"Kerry Group has a long tradition in delivering on the promises it makes. For any young farmer in Kerry, this commitment will give them great comfort.

"The other factor is that this will give Kerry plc the guarantee of supply it needs for its own expansion plans. Kerry plc gets about 40% of its milk requirement from the Kerry area, so this agreement will also guarantee the group the supply they will need for the future. It is a contract that suits both sides."

In terms of Kerry’s high season milk price guarantee, Mr Cahill said he hopes the new framework will be in place this year, or in early 2012 at the latest.

Kerry Group is promising to cater for any increased milk supply that comes in the post-quota era from 2015 onwards. The group is also promising to fund any capital costs required for increased processing, without any financial input from farmers.

With expansion predictions for the Kerry region set at around 20%, industry experts suggest that Kerry Group already has all the technology and equipment it needs for the likely level of expansion.

Kerry Group corporate affairs director, Frank Hayes, said: "At our first general meeting on July 21, co-op members were seeking clarification on milk price and our future commitment to make the necessary investment for output expansion after the end of the quota regime.

"We have committed to pay the market-leading milk price in the main grass-growing season from February to October. That will be paid on a like-for -like basis for milk and solids, and in terms of milk quality etc. That is enshrined in our milk contract. The milk contract comes into play after 2015, once the quotas expire. Kerry Group can already process up to 120% of the current total output. From 2015 on, if the output exceeds 120% we will make the necessary capital investment for the extra processing."

Mr McCarthy’s proposals also got a positive response from a delegation led by IFA president John Bryan and made up of IFA representatives from Kerry, Limerick and Clare.

Mr Bryan also welcomed the commitment that the co-op board, made up of dairy farmers, would have direct and regular involvement with management in reviewing the Kerry milk price to ensure it is the leading milk price, relative to the milk constituents and the milk production curve.

The delegation welcomed the commitment that the co-op model will be retained indefinitely, regardless of the future shareholding of the co-op in the plc. The co-op will work to secure the maximum say and involvement of active milk producers in the role of the co-op in the future.

The delegation also welcomed the commitment that any further processing investment required will come from the plc, without any recourse to active dairy farmers. As a result, it seems a foregone conclusion that Kerry Co-op shareholders will formally agree to the transfer of 25% of their shares to the plc at a special meeting in Brandon Hotel, Tralee, on August 16.

This is the second scheduled meeting in which the co-op’s 4,400 ‘A’ grade shareholders are being asked to approve changes to its constitution allowing the plc to increase its shareholding.

The current rules prohibit the co-op members from holding less than 20%. The new regulations will lower that floor to 10%. The proposed share transfer will see the co-op members’ shares in Kerry Group diluted and the percentage of its ownership dip below 20%. These members hold 22.8%.

At the recent first meeting, 1,600 Kerry Co-op shareholders agreed by an 80% majority to changes which will net them a €290m windfall in a share exchange with Kerry Group.

In all, more than 75% of co-op members must approve the changes before the share transfer can take place.

That approval is expected to be confirmed at next Tuesday’s meeting in the Brandon Hotel, Tralee.

It’s also proposed that co-op representation on the Kerry Group plc board would be cut from seven to four. This will be voted upon separately at a third meeting in September.

BannerBarry

5Live,

While everyone is entitled to their opinion and to vote as they see fit I get the impression you would not be happy if Kerry Group gave you their 100's of millions of profits also.

As a farmer I think we have to have faith with the same company that got it oh so right over the last 40 years.

In 1986 they went to a PLC against the worst criticism at the time... This is why your Co Op shares are worth €100,000 today if 100% converted.

Dairygold with 100% ownership of their Co op's shares are practically worthless.

Dairygold farmers are paid roughly the same milk price as us and their shares are worthless..... Saying this another way, every Kerry Co Op farmer has a €100,000 headstart on a dairygold farmer in the morning.
We are getting €25,000 of this later this month if we don't have a big bunch of negatives voting against it.

How have Dairygold not been able to get a better milk price with 100% ownership of the company??????

Our concern was that Kerry could decrease our milk price if we had less of a stake in Kerry Group PLC... We now are being offered a firm commitment in writing that we will be paid the leading price in the summer period...... What more do we now want...

Our farming organisations (ICMSA & IFA) have both had an opportunity this week to go through the proposal with a fine comb.... They both have welcomed the commitment (Check IFA's website)..... Have faith.... This faith has us in the most enviable dairy farming position in the country... Finally!

You finally have jam on both sides of your bread..... Eat it!!!

kerrymilk

5live wrote: »

Was at the meeting in farranfore last night. And it wasnt a no meeting. It was an information meeting to fill the vaccum of absolutely no information coming from our representatives. It seems to be breaking down as IFA v ICMSA at the minute. 2 prominent ICMSA members came out in favour while the rank and file IFA are very suspicious.

On friday it was announced kerry would pay the leading milk price in the country. By tuesday that had changed to the leading milk price of major processors. What will it have become by this time next week?

The formula for calculating the milk price league on summer/kerry profile wont be agreed until after the vote. But it will be included in the milk contract.

So it will take a huge leap of faith to vote yes while not seeing any figures or formula for calculating the comparison imo.

Also it was said that if it is defeated then stan wont look for a conversion again after getting his ass kicked once so it will be a few years down the line before it would come up again. (Seems like we picked a CE with a very sensitive bottom, if that comment turns out to be true:rolleyes:)

We only have negotiating power until 5pm next tuesday. Once we vote, whether yes or no, we have nothing they need so our power is gone. So not having figures before then is ,imo, a huge disadvantage in negotiating a formula.

Expect a letter this week with some information in it (i forget what exactly is in it, head a bit muddled this morning)

And another meeting in sherwoods in farranfore is being arranged on thursday night at 9 (sorry killarney lads) with John O Callaghan expected but that to be confirmed

Also at meeting in Farranfore last night some points to note from the meeting Stan already believes he is paying the leading milk price
All milk leagues are anti Kerry and there stated postion is not correct ie 8th.
It is still unclear how the like for like milk price will be achieved the board member present imagains Kerry management will tell them how this is to be done.
ICMSA rep present said he meet Stan in Dublin Monday and got a commitment that when he makes up his milk price for the year it will be the best in the country.What does he do if this does not happen???????
He said he would have serious talk with him if he did not keep his promise .
If Stans diagrees with him what choice has he put up with it or move his milk to the better paying co op after five years notice.
No independent aduit will be accepted is this good enough?????????

BannerBarry

It can't be that hard to calculate if its a leading price or not.
Stan has given a committment on this now, we need to accept to form a contract.. This contract is then legally binding... If we go a cent in a paycheque below anyone else we'll have the IFA & ICMSA knocking down his door.... and all 4,400 of us will be protesting outside Princes Street... That I assure you... Kerry Group are not a fly by night company that will disappear post the commitment of leading milk price.... they are a massive multinational with plenty of profits to pay us our leading price.... They are not like Lee Strand that looked like they could fold at any second last year.

5live

BannerBarry wrote: »

5Live,

While everyone is entitled to their opinion and to vote as they see fit I get the impression you would not be happy if Kerry Group gave you their 100's of millions of profits also.

As a farmer I think we have to have faith with the same company that got it oh so right over the last 40 years.

In 1986 they went to a PLC against the worst criticism at the time... This is why your Co Op shares are worth €100,000 today if 100% converted.

Dairygold with 100% ownership of their Co op's shares are practically worthless.

Dairygold farmers are paid roughly the same milk price as us and their shares are worthless..... Saying this another way, every Kerry Co Op farmer has a €100,000 headstart on a dairygold farmer in the morning.
We are getting €25,000 of this later this month if we don't have a big bunch of negatives voting against it.

How have Dairygold not been able to get a better milk price with 100% ownership of the company??????

Our concern was that Kerry could decrease our milk price if we had less of a stake in Kerry Group PLC... We now are being offered a firm commitment in writing that we will be paid the leading price in the summer period...... What more do we now want...

Our farming organisations (ICMSA & IFA) have both had an opportunity this week to go through the proposal with a fine comb.... They both have welcomed the commitment (Check IFA's website)..... Have faith.... This faith has us in the most enviable dairy farming position in the country... Finally!

You finally have jam on both sides of your bread..... Eat it!!!

Where do i start with that, barry
Its not 100,000 euro barry. Its 62,000 at todays 24 euro a share and CGT deducted.
Good luck with your faith, i hope it will put bread on the table for you in the future. I deal with facts and the facts are that despite kerrys numerous pronouncements on their leading milk price they are still to show anyone the figures that lead them to make those pronouncements.
On co-op v PLC, all dairy farmers will tell you their bread and butter is not share price its MILK PRICE. To avoid any misunderstanding i will repeat it. MILK PRICE PAYS OUR BILLS. In the last 5 years Dairygold farmers were paid an extra 30 euro a cow or an average of 3100 euro a farm extra over and aboue what kerry farmers got for the same milk. Thats a total of 15,000 over 5 years or 75k over 25 years. Thats a slight difference from, to quote yourself 'roughly the same milk price':rolleyes:. It is dog rough to be blunt.
If you wish to sell part of your house or garden to 'release equity' (as was the term du jour not so long ago when men were men and sheep were, well, angora goats) its your perogitive.
Your 25k, as i said before, is nearer 16k, just to calm your hysteria down a notch.
What do i want as regards the commitment? Well to see it for a start:rolleyes:. Would you sign a contract for a 13 year term for an unknown, unquantifiable (as yet) milk price? If yes then away with you. I'm sure stan will be rubbing his hands and licking his lips when he sees you coming. I prefer to read what i am signing first but i sincerely hope your lack of suspicion will not get you in any trouble in the future:pac:
Our concern is that kerry were going to continue to state they were paying the best price without one iota of proof as to the substance or lack of it.
Our concern is that without a deal on the table before the vote our negotiating position goes from one of strength to one of absouute absence.
Our concern is we cannot make a judgement without the facts whick kerry have repeatedly refused to divulge or allow anyone with any knowledge of the facts to meet anybody that could ask a question, any question, to fill the absolute void of information that we currently abide in.
Our concern is that we will not get enough time next week to ascertain the full inplications of the non existent formula on our livlehoods.
From your last sentence you seem to be in posession of the facts and formulas to be used so please feel free to share:cool:.

We know there is the POTENTIAL to have jam on both sides of the bread but i would prefer to check the side not displayed to check there actually IS jam on it, that it IS a flavour i like, that it actually covers the WHOLE slice and that it will STILL be there on thursday.

Did i miss anything or was anything unclear?

And enough of the bloody jam. I'm diabetic and havent touched the bloody (lovely sweet) stuff in years;). I'm hungry now:(

milkprofit

Again i ask kerry farmers to rember what happened to Glanbias promise to pay aleading milk price When ther is only 4 farmers on board the rest of directors are LEGALY bound to get milk as cheapely as possible to make MAX profits for PLC
KERRY FARMERS vote for the future not QUICK BUCK

milkprofit

Again i ask kerry farmers to rember what happened to Glanbias promise to pay aleading milk price When ther is only 4 farmers on board the rest of directors are LEGALY bound to get milk as cheapely as possible to make MAX profits for PLC
KERRY FARMERS vote for the future not QUICK BUCK

5live

BannerBarry wrote: »

It can't be that hard to calculate if its a leading price or not.
Stan has given a committment on this now, we need to accept to form a contract.. This contract is then legally binding... If we go a cent in a paycheque below anyone else we'll have the IFA & ICMSA knocking down his door.... and all 4,400 of us will be protesting outside Princes Street... That I assure you... Kerry Group are not a fly by night company that will disappear post the commitment of leading milk price.... they are a massive multinational with plenty of profits to pay us our leading price.... They are not like Lee Strand that looked like they could fold at any second last year.

I admire your optimism barry even though i think it is hopelessly naive. Ask any random sample of farmers what should be in a transparent milk price and within a half an hour all will have exactly the same answer, even the two of us will agree on how kerrys price should be compared to others. Yet we have to wait till years end to get a formula that can be agreed in a half hour? Why?
You are right, the contract is legally binding once signed. The difficulty i have is i have to vote on a contract for a 13 year term, containing details yet to be agreed which i may object strongly to, which wont be available before the meeting, at the meeting or for months after the meeting.
As to 4400 protesting farmers in princes street, if only 1600 turn up to vote on an issue of this importance, how many will turn up for an 'unimportant' issue like milk price:rolleyes:.
No kerry are not lee strand. But one issue that you are not including in your calculations, barry, is that once the 10% is breached the co-op will have lost the right of representation on the board and the right to resist being forced to sell up in the event of a takeover. Then we enter a scenario where we have no representation on the board, no 'kerry' management in place and a company 100% focused on buying inputs for as little as possible regardless of the costs to the producers involved. I imagine you dont think that is a good idea too

BannerBarry

5Live, We are not going under 10%, we are going to 17.5% of Kerry Group PLC... You are putting the cart before the horse... Your real name must be Brian Leslie (Famous for his Dragons Den appearance)!!!!!!

5live

BannerBarry wrote: »

5Live, We are not going under 10%, we are going to 17.5% of Kerry Group PLC... You are putting the cart before the horse... Your real name must be Brian Leslie (Famous for his Dragons Den appearance)!!!!!!

Why thank you for outing me. It would be a pleasure to be mistaken for a journalist who tell the whole truth, both sides of it, regardless of the consequences. And just look at the consequences.....

And on the going under 10%, it was only a few short months ago that it was said once we broke 40% it would be at least 10 years, probably 20, before the 20% was needed to be broken:rolleyes:.

Its called progression barry. If this is passed and the money spent (again:rolleyes:) the next 'release of equity' will be below the 10%. I have to be very careful what i write but......naw just watch the progression in the next 15 months barry and do try to inform yourself about what is happening behind the scenes and why.

Best of luck with the vote and i hope for your sake it turns out like you want it to, i really really do........

BannerBarry

5live, drop me an email.... I'm obviously mising something.
I see a guaranteed leading milk price... Exceptional, something I only dreamed of.
I see shares worth gross €25K that will clear my slatted house loan, and a further €75K of off farm shares earning a dividend every year until Kerry Co Op convert the next say 20% in 3 or 4 years and we get another windfall.
Over the years I was pissed we did not get a better price but we are where we are, I'm forward looking.
If I'm missing something fundamental say it out loud here, don't just **** stirr, I'm not insterested in consipracy theories...
IFA are pro, ICMSA are Pro, you are **** stirring without facts I feel... Provide me the facts.

If you are so afraid of boards.ie, email me, I'm not afraid of anyone here....

email me: barryquinnclare@hotmail.com... I'll give you my mobile and you can ring me before I vote yes on Tuesday..... Ring me with ID withheld if you like if you are afraid, give me the facts not the conspiracy's.

BannerBarry

On your hero Brian Leslie, check out the follwing link. Bobby Kerr smells a rat with Brian Leslie... Now he's a good role model for us to follow isn't he!

http://gavinduffy.ie/blog/2011/03/

So when Bobby Kerr asks, “ why do I smell a rat here?” that can be edited to, “I smell a rat here”

Chiarrai_abu

Banner Barry you are out of order. Leslies issues with the dragons den gang have nothing to do with the vote.
Im still uncertain on the whole vote. The leading milk price has bought Kerry alot of Yes votes but I am still not a Stran McCarthy fan. Denis Brosnan was to God in Kerry and if he endorses the whold deal (Like I doubt he will) Ill then turn coat and vote yes.

Bring back Denis Brosnan. He brought the Co op from nothing to where it is today, not Stan McCarthy. I will be contridicted for saying milk price was the key reason I am was a vote no man. The directors of Kerry Co-op are good fellas, they have got McCarthy in order with milk price finally. Too little too late for an old dog like me though.

5live

BannerBarry wrote: »

5live, drop me an email.... I'm obviously mising something.
I see a guaranteed leading milk price... Exceptional, something I only dreamed of.
I see shares worth gross €25K that will clear my slatted house loan, and a further €75K of off farm shares earning a dividend every year until Kerry Co Op convert the next say 20% in 3 or 4 years and we get another windfall.
Over the years I was pissed we did not get a better price but we are where we are, I'm forward looking.
If I'm missing something fundamental say it out loud here, don't just **** stirr, I'm not insterested in consipracy theories...
IFA are pro, ICMSA are Pro, you are **** stirring without facts I feel... Provide me the facts.

If you are so afraid of boards.ie, email me, I'm not afraid of anyone here....

email me: barryquinnclare@hotmail.com... I'll give you my mobile and you can ring me before I vote yes on Tuesday..... Ring me with ID withheld if you like if you are afraid, give me the facts not the conspiracy's.

IF you want to see how things pan out after next tuesday and the probable carrying of the yes vote, i point you to
RULE 24
You can look it up in your own rule book but it states that A and B shareholders holding at least 20% of the shares issued and 20% of the holders of shareholders may requisition a SGM from the board on any issue including 4h. If the board fails to hold a SGM they can call one of their own and give notice of the vote. If this happens then the remaining shares will be converted.
Just to remind you barry, you havent seen the milk contract or the formula that has been promised whether good bad or indifferent. You just have stans word that you will like it:rolleyes:. Seeing as you are from clare why dont you ask some of your neighbours about promises made by kerry when taking over GV and whether the promises were fulfilled. You are the first clare farmer i have had contact with that is happy with a promise from kerry as every single one i have PMd texted emailed phoned or met has an undiminished suspicion of the PLC. And i have met quite a few;)
Until a neighbour mentioned rule 24, a few of us were wondering how the speeded up conversion was going to be carried out but it turns out it was way more prosaic than we had imagined. So our imaginings were out of order:o but the conspiracy ,tbh, isnt a theory.
As for being afraid to print what i was implying, i wont say anything behing someones back that i wont say to their face. My suppositions of directors antics was wrong but the end result is still the same. Full conversion once the yes is voted in on tuesday.
I wonder how much joy you will feel when the promises you were made on milk price turn out to have as much substance as a vaccum. If you want to vote away the only leverage you have in getting that which we both want, the leading milk price, dont come crying here looking for a shoulder to cry on when your imagined result fall well short of the actuality of A leading milk price (which, apparently, we have already:rolleyes:)

However we shall still be fighting to benefit all kerry milk suppliers despite their best intentions

raindodger

Watching this discussion with intrest as am still undecided.
Iam an ex golden vale man and must say have found kerry much better.
Kerry rep was in the other day looking for a yes vote.
He said that it was farmers who had been looking for this spin out of shares must say i never heard any and that it would mean the plc would have more money because of it,cant see why because the shares are already there just not active to the market.
who in your opinion is the driving force behind this spinout
if it is the farmers its for the money
if its the plc its to sell it cant think of any other reason why because were always told they had a massive war chest to buy anything they wanted since they have not made a mega purchase in the last number of years they should have even more.
we were lucky in gv to be treated as fairly as any kerry supplier if they didnt want to we could do very little about it that is my major worry

BannerBarry

5Live, that would be awesome if they converted more of the shares than 25%, thanks for the info.

Imagine my situation for a minute, Slatted house loan, tractor loan, mortgage and bank overdraft.
More of a conversion means I could clear off almost all my loans.

I might even get more sleep not having to worry about the bank and going into overdraft to repay other loans.
If you think Kerry have not treated us well on milk price over the years (Which I don't disagree with) my bank charges 18% overdraft rate, wants the whole farm as security for loans, I could go on and on with how I have been treated by them. My farming problem isn't Kerry Co op, its the bank.

Now I have the opportunity to show the bank the 2 fingers with the conversion windfall and have a decent contract on milk price secures the future somewhat for me at least.

With a Yes vote to Kerry Co op share conversion I will get the funds to finally be able to concentrate on farming and not just dealing with the bank and my €20k plus all repayments per year thats cripling me.

Oh and if you think the Clare vote is No, think again and hop on our bus from Ennis on Tuesday... There is a 100% yes vote as was the case 3 weeks ago, I assure you that.

BannerBarry

raindodger,

I for one was very proactive in pushing my neighbour (who's on the advisory committee) for a conversion with 2 years at this stage.
We were all sitting on a pot of gold with the Co Op shares and not allowed access it.
I had to give my farm as bank security when, if the Co Op shares were PLC shares I would have been able to use them as security (Or indeed sell them).
The PLC & Co op directors I believe are against the conversion.... sure why wouldn't they be.

Look at the book of accounts we got out in June.
Kerry Co op is a non trading company, its an investment vehicle for shares.

KERRY CO OP SPEND €700,000 IN OPERATING EXPENSES IN 2010.... OPERATING WHAT I ASK?

5live

raindodger wrote: »

Watching this discussion with intrest as am still undecided.
Iam an ex golden vale man and must say have found kerry much better.
Kerry rep was in the other day looking for a yes vote.
He said that it was farmers who had been looking for this spin out of shares must say i never heard any and that it would mean the plc would have more money because of it,cant see why because the shares are already there just not active to the market.
who in your opinion is the driving force behind this spinout
if it is the farmers its for the money
if its the plc its to sell it cant think of any other reason why because were always told they had a massive war chest to buy anything they wanted since they have not made a mega purchase in the last number of years they should have even more.
we were lucky in gv to be treated as fairly as any kerry supplier if they didnt want to we could do very little about it that is my major worry

I served my time in GV raindodger. Glad to hear you are happy with kerry. I am happy with kerry too because i have nowhere else to supply to;)

To the best of my knowledge kerry has always used loans to purchase. On the shares, yes they are being traded but at minimal volumes compated to the issued capital. A spinout would increase the number of active shares and with a flood of shares onto the market the shares will undoubtably fall in value, just as cattle numbers fall when more come to market.

On the milk contract, have you seen it? Have you read it? What do you think of the like for like comparison proposed? Do you think it is fair to vote yes on the back of proposals that have yet to be seem by most farmers and some issues that havent even been agreed? Do you believe that if you have an issue with the proposals on like for like comparison when they are eventuall unveiled that you will get an opportunity to discuss and amend them to suit what you believe is a fair syatem?

I have no issue with farmers wishing to sell their shares when they get them. For a lot of farmers it is a lifeline, and as with barry, a chance to pay off debt. All valid choices and their entitlements and good luck to them, i wont stand in their way.

But to vote yes without seeing the actual details of the contract is, to my mind, akin to jumping out of an airplane and trusting that someone will provide you with a parachute before you hit the ground. Not, i hope you agree, the most sensible of choices when milk price is the bread and butter and what pays the bills at the end of the day

5live

BannerBarry wrote: »

raindodger,

I for one was very proactive in pushing my neighbour (who's on the advisory committee) for a conversion with 2 years at this stage.
We were all sitting on a pot of gold with the Co Op shares and not allowed access it.
I had to give my farm as bank security when, if the Co Op shares were PLC shares I would have been able to use them as security (Or indeed sell them).
The PLC & Co op directors I believe are against the conversion.... sure why wouldn't they be.

Look at the book of accounts we got out in June.
Kerry Co op is a non trading company, its an investment vehicle for shares.

KERRY CO OP SPEND €700,000 IN OPERATING EXPENSES IN 2010.... OPERATING WHAT I ASK?

Well something has to pay for losses on One51 shares;):D

raindodger

BannerBarry wrote: »

raindodger,

I for one was very proactive in pushing my neighbour (who's on the advisory committee) for a conversion with 2 years at this stage.
We were all sitting on a pot of gold with the Co Op shares and not allowed access it.
I had to give my farm as bank security when, if the Co Op shares were PLC shares I would have been able to use them as security (Or indeed sell them).
The PLC & Co op directors I believe are against the conversion.... sure why wouldn't they be.

Look at the book of accounts we got out in June.
Kerry Co op is a non trading company, its an investment vehicle for shares.

KERRY CO OP SPEND €700,000 IN OPERATING EXPENSES IN 2010.... OPERATING WHAT I ASK?

to make things clear i have my own loans and would find the money most usefull with kids going to university
for what reason do you think the plc are against conversion
as afoot note looked for a quota loan for around 2000 and the bank wanted the deeds of the land
if they were only more diligent with the developers we would not be n the mess we are in today

5live

raindodger wrote: »

to make things clear i have my own loans and would find the money most usefull with kids going to university
for what reason do you think the plc are against conversion
as afoot note looked for a quota loan for around 2000 and the bank wanted the deeds of the land
if they were only more diligent with the developers we would not be n the mess we are in today

I think the PLC are totally in favour of the conversion. As i said before the feeling is that not enough shares are in circulation so the only ways to do that is to convert more shares (or issue more shares which would bring up the situation where the co-op have to keep a shareholding aboue 20% but with no money and the only income, the share dividends from the PLC, then having to move from our co-op dividend to repaying bank loans taken out to buy shares to keep the shareholding aboue 20%:eek:).

I have no issue with what people do with their shares. Its their money(less 25% capital gains tax, which is never mentioned;)). The boat of co-op versus PLC has sailed since 1986. This is just another stageing post on the road to full conversion. What i do object to is people assuming the milk price agreement is finished because of a press release

The function of a PLC is to make as big a profit as it can by buying as much as it can as cheap as it can and that includes milk. The only reason there is any interest in our milk now over 3 years ago is that it is a strategic reserve because it has to be supplied to the PLC. They can justify paying slightly above the odds now because of the relative scarcity in 08.

Unless we get a signed, sealed and delivered milk price (and not some waffle in a press release) we will be negotiating next month with both hands tied behind our back and a concrete block as a lifejacket:(

No i am not a cheerleader for the co-op or against it for that matter. I think i am a realist and negotiating with a PLC from a point of weakness is, in my opinion, accepting a lower potential milk price and lower profitability in the future.

But the solution is in our hands still...................

raindodger

sorry last post should have read plc for conversion
that what happens when you post after coming home from a few pints

you2

' The Irish Times - Friday, August 12, 2011
One51 reports €104.6m loss due to major writedown on NTR holding

CIARÁN HANCOCK, Business Affairs Correspondent

INVESTMENT GROUP One51 made a loss of €104.6 million in 2010, according to its annual report, which was sent to shareholders yesterday.

This was largely the result of a €95 million writedown in the value of its 23.8 per cent holding in Dublin-based NTR, which operates a portfolio of investments in waste, water, wind power, solar and toll roads.'


I have only a lay mans view of this but given that Kerry co op shareholders appear to have shouldered a €40 million writeoff(approx 40% of the NTR write down) This would seem to imply that the co op owns 40% of One51 or at least has a 40 % exposure to its writedowns!?

In the likely event that One51 suffer further losses will their be further sell off of our shares to cover write downs?

If so is it then possible that the co-op could end up below the 20% plc threshold without any further share conversions?

Chiarrai_abu

Lads, before I milk my cows I would like to just say its an end of an era for us Kerry Co op men. Its sad in one way that we have now lost whatever power we had.
At this stage we are as well off if 100% of Kerry co-op shares were converted to Kerry group PLC as we cannot stop a takeoveror or anything else form that matter now.
As one of ye said we'd save the 700,000 euro we spend on the running of Kerry co-op each year anyway.

Anyway I'm off to milk my cows this fine evening (Weatherwise anyway)!

5live

you2 wrote: »

' The Irish Times - Friday, August 12, 2011
One51 reports €104.6m loss due to major writedown on NTR holding

CIARÁN HANCOCK, Business Affairs Correspondent

INVESTMENT GROUP One51 made a loss of €104.6 million in 2010, according to its annual report, which was sent to shareholders yesterday.

This was largely the result of a €95 million writedown in the value of its 23.8 per cent holding in Dublin-based NTR, which operates a portfolio of investments in waste, water, wind power, solar and toll roads.'


I have only a lay mans view of this but given that Kerry co op shareholders appear to have shouldered a €40 million writeoff(approx 40% of the NTR write down) This would seem to imply that the co op owns 40% of One51 or at least has a 40 % exposure to its writedowns!?

In the likely event that One51 suffer further losses will their be further sell off of our shares to cover write downs?

If so is it then possible that the co-op could end up below the 20% plc threshold without any further share conversions?

The PLC can issue shares at will for whatever price they want to offer them at. They must then (i think) offer them to existing shareholders pro rata so they can keep their existing % of ownership and any not taken are offered to the market for purchase. Under the previous rules(20%) and current rules (10%) kerry would be obliged to buy their share of shares to keep over the % ownership, if i understood o Callaghan correctly.

Kerry sold shares last year to buffer their capital requirements (whatever that means) or smoe such reason so the conversion went from over 7:1 to 6.6:1. It wasnt a direct cause afaik but it could have played a part. I was just winding barry up;)

BannerBarry

Celebrations

Great day (Personally), I know Ciarrai-abu you seem a bit down by the whole lot.

Well it was to be expected, I don't think there was any shocks there today.

Ciarrai-abu, I never thought I would agree with you on anything only that the power we had (At a cost of €90K each.... Gross that is (5Live)) is now gone and we might as well convert all the Kerry Co Op shares to Plc shares.

6.66 is as a result of the One51 losses 5Live. We own over 6% of One51 and have lost 80% of the 2007 shares we bought. These are now written down so we shuld have minor losses hereforward if not gains

On a personal note, I would like to assure my bank that the repayments are on the way, well in a few months anyway, thank you Kerry co op directors I know you are pissed..... if we convert 100% and deprive you all of your fat " €700,000 2010 OPERATING EXPENSES"!

Over and out from the Banner!

djmc

Can anyone tell me what they mean by paying like for like in milk price

5live

djmc wrote: »

Can anyone tell me what they mean by paying like for like in milk price

Kerry committed to paying the leading price from march to october (the off grass price) without any seasonality bonuses or scc bonuses or charges for collection ie using the same bonuses/penalties as kerry. They say that no farmer supplying kerry will be better off supplying any other milk buyer during those months.

As to how that is defined......well good luck trying to get that from them until the new year:mad: