Just lost respect for Kenny

anymore

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Well, that and the fact that one of them is riddled with corruption from top to bottom and the other one boots out anyone who is caught with hands in the cookie jar (Lowry for example).

And FFailure are a lot more socially conservative.

So not the exact same for my money. But they were never going to be the radicals that we needed in this situation - while the ULA and SF with their fantasy economics would have been a bit too radical.

And what about TDs or Councillors who been found to be cheating their tax ? Did not the question of that come up recently and what was the response from the Mighty Kenny ?

Monty Burnz

anymore wrote: »

And what about TDs or Councillors who been found to be cheating their tax ? Did not the question of that come up recently and what was the response from the Mighty Kenny ?

If you link to the cases, perhaps we can find out?

end a eknny

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I don't think I ever said that they'd be much better.......just that they were less corrupt, which was an improvement.

But I did say at the time that that alone wouldn't be enough.

I'm seriously at a loss as to where this country is likely to go; unlike some others in this thread I cannot stomach SF as a viable option because of their double-standards re violence and because they have absolutely no idea of real economics having come from a subsidised statelet......and of course I also believe that they shouldn't be in the Dáil since they refuse to call this country by name, waffling on about 26 counties.

Basically they are still pandering to their core support, and while they stick with that they are completely at odds with my views.

But are they seriously looking like a possible option for the next election ? Just as FF's corruption and incompetence and anti-ordinary people mindset caused people to turn to FG & Labour (despite their obvious limitations), will FG & Labour's incompetence and anti-ordinary people mindset drive them to an SF that isn't good for the country either ?

sinn fein come from a subsidised statelet really!!!!!!! i thought they were the oldest party in ireland and the only all ireland party. your biggest problem with sinn fein is that unlike other parties they stick to their principles

nesf

end a eknny wrote: »

sinn fein come from a subsidised statelet really!!!!!!! i thought they were the oldest party in ireland and the only all ireland party. your biggest problem with sinn fein is that unlike other parties they stick to their principles

It's simple for SF in the south to maintain their principles, they've never had to govern. When they've governed for a few years come back to me about them being able to stick to their principles.

rodento

It'll be interesting to see how SF manage their dual mandate, with massive austerity cuts on the cards in the north.

nesf

rodento wrote: »

It'll be interesting to see how SF manage their dual mandate, with massive austerity cuts on the cards in the north.

I guarantee you they'll be cutting in the North while decrying the need for cuts in the South, hoping that people don't notice.

Liam Byrne

end a eknny wrote: »

sinn fein come from a subsidised statelet really!!!!!!! i thought they were the oldest party in ireland and the only all ireland party. your biggest problem with sinn fein is that unlike other parties they stick to their principles

:rolleyes: I've no problem with someone sticking to their principles, as long as those principles are honourable.

Collecting murderers from jail and screaming for justice for only their supporters doesn't instil confidence........if I was ever victimised they'd refuse to stand up for me because I wasn't one of them.

FF "stick to their principles" too.....but since those principles are also at odds with a fair society I don't support them either.

If a local drug dealer "sticks to his principles" that it's OK to murder anyone else selling drugs, am I supposed to support him for simply "sticking to his principles", or am I not allowed point out that those principles sicken me ?

Dannyboy83

end a eknny wrote: »

sinn fein come from a subsidised statelet really!!!!!!! i thought they were the oldest party in ireland and the only all ireland party. your biggest problem with sinn fein is that unlike other parties they stick to their principles

They don't tho.
In order for Sinn Fein to achieve a majority, the majority would have to vote them in spite of who they are, not because of who they are.


I don't hold it against the Greens that they went into coalition with FF.
That's just pragmatism imo.
Of course, the electorate should have been able to recall the TDs, if so desired, because the party lied to get into power, it was a clear reversal of their pre-election commitment. That would be democratic.

I do hold it against them however, that they kept Fianna Fail in power for so long, when it was abundantly clear to the rest of the country that Fianna Fail were not up to the task (Taoiseach had the lowest ratings ever), and consequently, we have this lovely strait jacket to wear.
That decision was made by the party and it's members, not by the electorate.
That is not democratic.

Our political system is unbalanced.
Too much caveat emptor for the electorate;
an appalling lack of the same for the elected.

syklops

sanbrafyffe wrote: »

well to be quiet honest lads you can say what u want abut kenny but at the end of the day we are meeting the imf/eu requirements,,,,,and olly rehn is now saying that our bailout rate should now be reduced,,,,,so it was always going to be tough but hes doing it,,,,,,if we can keep going the way we are we wont need anymore funding and we can get back into the markets,,,,

Dont let the big picture get in the way of a rant.

CommuterIE

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Enda Kenny was asked why they are paying €800 million to UNSECURED/UNGUARANTEED bondholders, and waffled on about realities.

We elected you to be fair to and represent the Irish people, and paying out stuff that you have no legal obligation to do is unacceptable.

Values of investments go up or down; investors know that.

Cop on and stop throwing our money away, or else resign.

Your party did not get a vote from me to continue FF's waste.

LMAO, I'm not really sure if you know how the world works my friend!

Anyway, Enda should not have promised no Social Welfare cuts or Tax Increases in the next budget.... they are simply waiting for the IMF to do the dirty work so the government can blame them...

Dannyboy83

CommuterIE wrote: »

Anyway, Enda should not have promised no Social Welfare cuts or Tax Increases in the next budget.... they are simply waiting for the IMF to do the dirty work so the government can blame them...

Actually there is a 3rd option

It was revealed this week there were 7.2 million PPS numbers for a population of only 4.58 million. Ms Healy Eames, Fine Gael spokeswoman on Social Protection in the Seanad, said this provided strong potential for welfare abuse.

She has written to group chairwoman barrister Ita Mangan suggesting a “social welfare income cap” on households to stem “social welfare reliance at an intergenerational level”.

Don't cut it, just make thousands ineligible.
Fianna Fail did it with the Habitual Residency rule in 2009.

Liam Byrne

CommuterIE wrote: »

LMAO, I'm not really sure if you know how the world works my friend!

Oh believe me, I've seen how it works and it's sickening.

Doesn't stop me pointing out where it fails.

CommuterIE wrote: »

Anyway, Enda should not have promised no Social Welfare cuts or Tax Increases in the next budget.... they are simply waiting for the IMF to do the dirty work so the government can blame them...

No, he should have been honest and promised stuff that he was prepared to deliver.

Monty Burnz

Liam Byrne wrote: »

No, he should have been honest and promised stuff that he was prepared to deliver.

Unfortunately the moronic electorate wouldn't have liked that. The same morons who voted known crook Bertie Ahern in three times.

As a leading Green Party figure once said off the record, Irish politicians are surprisingly good considering how bad the voters are. I don't think he meant that as a compliment to the politicians.

Drumpot

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Oh believe me, I've seen how it works and it's sickening.

Doesn't stop me pointing out where it fails.



No, he should have been honest and promised stuff that he was prepared to deliver.

If Enda had of promised pain across the board. If he had promised that he would be cutting social welfare, but looking to protect most vulnerable in the process. If he had said that he was going to tackle the costs of the public service, targeting specifically the higher levels of the grossly mismanaged beast. If he had said that he would fight Irelands cause with our EU friends but that he would be very much relying on the goodwill of our paymasters. If he said that his party wouldnt keep referring back to FF whenever they do something wrong (or dish out pain that they chose). If he had promised to address the nation regularly and at all times keep them updated on where we stand and what his intentions/strategies were.

Then I would of voted and followed him and his party.

Instead we have much of the same (not simply because FF left them in the Sh*ts) and the same lame excuses from their supporters. Broken promises are lies irrespective of whether or not it is the norm during elections for politicians to promise the sun moon and stars. I cant understand how stupid people can be to excuse ANYBODY, let alone an elected representitive, promising something they have no idea as to whether or not they can deliver on this promise. I usually associate this with conmen, but it seems dail privelages mean its somehow morally/ethically ok for politicians to promise anything they want.

When Society accepts bullsh*t, hypocricy and double standards, it shouldnt be surprised when a majority of the people are left in the gutters looking through the manhole at their protected masters living it up at their expense.

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/taxpayers-may-be-left-to-pick-up-part-of-euro70k-dail-bar-tab-2824165.html

Ah sure its only €70,000 . . Doesnt matter if its a phonebill of premium calls of €2,500 or millions wasted on a voting machine, once people keep excusing and ignoring lack of accountability and wastage OF OUR MONEY by our government and government run departments, we will only end up with the disrespectful, cronyist government (and their departments) we deserve.

anymore

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Unfortunately the moronic electorate wouldn't have liked that. The same morons who voted known crook Bertie Ahern in three times.

As a leading Green Party figure once said off the record, Irish politicians are surprisingly good considering how bad the voters are. I don't think he meant that as a compliment to the politicians.

When I want a reminder of how bad the Greens were in Government, I re- read Gormley's planet Bertie speech :
" ........You can end the nightmare of Planet Bertie in the summer of 2007. Radical, realistic, responsible and ready for government. The best is yet to come for this party. "
http://www.greenparty.ie/en/news/latest_news/address_by_john_gormley_to_the_national_convention

Monty Burnz

Drumpot wrote: »

When Society accepts bullsh*t, hypocricy and double standards, it shouldnt be surprised when a majority of the people are left in the gutters looking through the manhole at their protected masters living it up at their expense.

I agree with you in principle, but as I pointed out above, society doesn't just accept this bullsh*t, it DEMANDS it. The Shinners and ULA were worse, pretending that we could tell everyone to go whistle for the debts Fianna Failure piled on us, and there'd be no serious consequences.

If a party came out and told the truth, they'd alienate 90% of the population. They would be unelectable. This is ultimately a problem with the electorate rather than with the political parties.

Monty Burnz

anymore wrote: »

When I want a reminder of how bad the Greens were in Government, I re- read Gormley's planet Bertie speech :
" ........You can end the nightmare of Planet Bertie in the summer of 2007. Radical, realistic, responsible and ready for government. The best is yet to come for this party."

Just LOL. :rolleyes:

Drumpot

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I agree with you in principle, but as I pointed out above, society doesn't just accept this bullsh*t, it DEMANDS it. The Shinners and ULA were worse, pretending that we could tell everyone to go whistle for the debts Fianna Failure piled on us, and there'd be no serious consequences.

If a party came out and told the truth, they'd alienate 90% of the population. They would be unelectable. This is ultimately a problem with the electorate rather than with the political parties.

100% agreed.

That is why I considered (very seriously) getting into politics but ultimatley couldnt find a party that shared my principles. Coupled with that, I had little/no confidence in the electorate. I am not saying that I am great and everybody else is wrong, Im just stating that I didnt believe the electorate shared my values.

The truth is very much undervalued these days.

Laois_Man

While I am annoyed (although not suprised) by some of the things FG/labour Enda have/haven't done, my respect for the man has been heightened somewhat today by his attack on The Vatican.

I would however have liked him to go even further and say that Pope Benidict will not be afforded an official state welcome if he should, as is expected, come here in June 2012. Not that I would have expected him to do that either!

Happyman42

Laois_Man wrote: »

While I am annoyed (although not suprised) by some of the things FG/labour Enda have/haven't done, my respect for the man has been heightened somewhat today by his attack on The Vatican.

Stuff and nonsense.....let's see him actually 'do' something.
We know from wikileaks that governments 'agree' a form of words to placate the electorate, but privately are saying something completely different.

bijapos

Agreed it was a welcome speech, pity to see the Dail so empty for it.

Kenny should now put his words into actions, start by publically backing up Ruairi Quinn in his efforts to lessen the influence of the church in the running of schools, in fact get them out entirely.

He should also consider breaking off or reducing diplomatic links with the Vatican for some time as suggested by John Halligan.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0720/cloyne.html

Liam Byrne

bijapos wrote: »

Kenny should now put his words into actions, start by publically backing up Ruairi Quinn in his efforts to lessen the influence of the church in the running of schools, in fact get them out entirely.[/URL]

He should also put other words of his into action. The ones where he would sort out FF robbing us to pay off what he claimed were "their" mates.

Drumpot

Welcome words but I fear that they were only said to wag the dog.

Would Kenny of been as aggresive if his government werent making the unpopular decisions in these times of Austerity?

The cynic in me can find no reason to give Kenny the benefit of the doubt considering he dissapears whenever opposition try to hold his own party accountable with questions that the rest of the country want to hear answered!

eigrod

Even if Kenny and the current Government do nothing on this, it's a million times better than what Michael Woods & the FF lead Government did.

Drumpot

eigrod wrote: »

Even if Kenny and the current Government do nothing on this, it's a million times better than what Michael Woods & the FF lead Government did.

How can FG/Lab actually fail to impress with such low standards being set!

If you pick up a piece of sh*t and expect it to taste like sh*t, then you wont be surprised when you realise that it is in fact sh*t . .

uriah

Drumpot wrote: »

Welcome words but I fear that they were only said to wag the dog.

Would Kenny of been as aggresive if his government werent making the unpopular decisions in these times of Austerity?

The cynic in me can find no reason to give Kenny the benefit of the doubt considering he dissapears whenever opposition try to hold his own party accountable with questions that the rest of the country want to hear answered!

I have never seen any taoiseach appear as often in the Dáil answering questions.
Certainly, Ahern and Cowen did not attend the Dáil as much as Kenny does.

Drumpot

uriah wrote: »

I have never seen any taoiseach appear as often in the Dáil answering questions.
Certainly, Ahern and Cowen did not attend the Dáil as much as Kenny does.

Once again (seem to be repeating myself alot) . .

How is comparing them to Bertie and Cowen something to applaud ?

What good is it him being in the Dail so much if he simply avoids tough questions (particularly on his own comments) ? Isnt that also a trait of our previous government that people used to despise or is it ok to do what FF did if you are not FF? FFS, when will the people of this country learn that holding your government accountable to what they do wrong is the only way we will ever end up with a better leader.

I dont actually have a particular problem with Kenny anymore then I do with the entire culture within Irish Politics. If anything I find him to be one of the least offensive politician around (thats a compliment) and a very likable kind of person. I just get sick of people excusing bad practises that governments/parties/politicians get away with simply as they are things people have gotten used to!

People get so hung up on what they see on tv or hear or read and forget about the details ie - actions . . As stated by previous posters, it will be interesting to see if Kenny actually puts legislation in place to match his populist but welcomed attack on the actions of the Vatican. If he does little or nothing, then it is a truely sad indictment of the kind party he leads.

InigoMontoya

Happyman42 wrote: »

Stuff and nonsense.....let's see him actually 'do' something.
We know from wikileaks that governments 'agree' a form of words to placate the electorate, but privately are saying something completely different.

Words are indeed cheap, but in this case I think the speech itself is a positive step, as it's long overdue that someone in the Irish government told the church/vatican a few home truths. Hopefully they follow through with actions.

(Incidentally, Senator Ronan Mullen was on Newstalk Morning Ireland this morning whinging about the speech).

Monty Burnz

InigoMontoya wrote: »

(Incidentally, Senator Ronan Mullen was on Newstalk this morning whinging about the speech).

That clown is a throwback to the 1950s. 'Women, know your place', and all that. Anything that annoys him is objectively good and progressive.

anymore

Drumpot wrote: »

Once again (seem to be repeating myself alot) . .

How is comparing them to Bertie and Cowen something to applaud ?

What good is it him being in the Dail so much if he simply avoids tough questions (particularly on his own comments) ? Isnt that also a trait of our previous government that people used to despise or is it ok to do what FF did if you are not FF? FFS, when will the people of this country learn that holding your government accountable to what they do wrong is the only way we will ever end up with a better leader.

I dont actually have a particular problem with Kenny anymore then I do with the entire culture within Irish Politics. If anything I find him to be one of the least offensive politician around (thats a compliment) and a very likable kind of person. I just get sick of people excusing bad practises that governments/parties/politicians get away with simply as they are things people have gotten used to!

People get so hung up on what they see on tv or hear or read and forget about the details ie - actions . . As stated by previous posters, it will be interesting to see if Kenny actually puts legislation in place to match his populist but welcomed attack on the actions of the Vatican. If he does little or nothing, then it is a truely sad indictment of the kind party he leads.

I agree with you but at ;east words are a starting point. What if anyhting did the Munster MEPS, in whose constituency Cloyne have to say about the Cloyne scandal over the past number of years ? This question is directed at both present incumbents and the previous ones ?
The silence from MEPs on a matter which invloves a foreign power, ie the vatican is staggering !

Drumpot

anymore wrote: »

I agree with you but at ;east words are a starting point. What if anyhting did the Munster MEPS, in whose constituency Cloyne have to say about the Cloyne scandal over the past number of years ? This question is directed at both present incumbents and the previous ones ?
The silence from MEPs on a matter which invloves a foreign power, ie the vatican is staggering !

Thats fair enough. I just want everybody in Ireland to start holding our politicians accountable for their actions/inactions. We dont seem to do it unless they bring our country to bankrupcy!

Its such a shame that most peoples alligence can be bought or sold quite cheaply.

Callan57

InigoMontoya wrote: »

Words are indeed cheap, but in this case I think the speech itself is a positive step, as it's long overdue that someone in the Irish government told the church/vatican a few home truths. Hopefully they follow through with actions.

(Incidentally, Senator Ronan Mullen was on Newstalk this morning whinging about the speech).

Heard him on Morning Ireland just before 9 ... kinda surprised the fundamentalists weren't out of the traps a bit faster. :eek:

InigoMontoya

Callan57 wrote: »

Heard him on Morning Ireland just before 9 ... kinda surprised the fundamentalists weren't out of the traps a bit faster. :eek:

S***, it was Morning Ireland actually. I usually listen to Newstalk in the morning but it was MI this morning.

gbee

I did not give, FF, Greens or FG any votes last time. I was for the revolutionary route, and while a good portion of people voted similarly to me, just too many trusted FG.

I'm all for bringing down this Government, we've lived under two lies all tooooo long already: A democracy and a low tax economy. We need to be able to actually fire people without pension or golden handshakes.

Monty Burnz

gbee wrote: »

I did not give, FF, Greens or FG any votes last time. I was for the revolutionary route, and while a good portion of people voted similarly to me, just too many trusted FG.

I'm all for bringing down this Government, we've lived under two lies all tooooo long already: A democracy and a low tax economy. We need to be able to actually fire people without pension or golden handshakes.

Yeah, what we need is the ULA and SF to sort out the economy...after all, hard left economics worked so well elsewhere.

I've compiled a comprehensive list of successful communitst/socialist/Marxist economies at the end of this post so we can choose who to model ourselves on...

List:

syklops

If Enda had of promised pain across the board. If he had promised that he would be cutting social welfare, but looking to protect most vulnerable in the process. If he had said that he was going to tackle the costs of the public service, targeting specifically the higher levels of the grossly mismanaged beast. If he had said that he would fight Irelands cause with our EU friends but that he would be very much relying on the goodwill of our paymasters. If he said that his party wouldnt keep referring back to FF whenever they do something wrong (or dish out pain that they chose). If he had promised to address the nation regularly and at all times keep them updated on where we stand and what his intentions/strategies were.

If Enda Kenny had done all those things, he would not have been elected. The stupid irish electorate, who voted Bertie in 3 times, would have instead voted in a mixture of Labour and Sinn Fein.

Monty Burnz

syklops wrote: »

If Enda Kenny had done all those things, he would not have been elected. The stupid irish electorate, who voted Bertie in 3 times, would have instead voted in a mixture of Labour and Sinn Fein.

Yup. They'd have voted for the guys who promised no pain for anyone, even if it was obvious to anyone with a brain that this was impossible. SF/ULA did quite well as it was, with economic policies that a child could see were nonsense.