Gear problem??

Bombbastic22

Hi all,

I bought a Giant Escape 1 (hybrid) two months ago and have had an annoying problem when shifting through the front derailleur. When I got it, I couldn’t get it into the big gear wheel at the front until I tweeked the limit screw slightly. I keep having recurring problems with it though, and even with having tweaked the limit screw – it’s a less than perfect gear shift – snapping in nicely sometimes and other times I have to hold it – which the guy in the shop says is normal.

I've also developed problems with the rear gears popping out, particularly on hills in the lower gears - this started about six weeks after I bought the bike.

The gear system is a combination of Alvio and Deore and after many trips to the shop they said that maybe this was the problem.
More recently I’m getting a slight crunch feeling and sort of metallic noise at a very specific point in the rotation of the pedals. It happens when the right pedal is about to begin it’s decent. You can feel it and hear a sort of noise. Took it into the shop and the guy said my gears were slightly out of alignment and he sorted it. I cycled it for 30seconds – same noise! Grrr.

The noise and slight crunch isn’t there when you rotate the pedals on a stand and I pointed this out to the guy in the shop where I bought it and asked him to take it for a spin to see what I meant – he said he wouldn’t because the bike was too big for him.

Took it to another bike shop and he said he thought the gears were okay and that it was a problem with the cranks – a worn bearing. I have done about 1800kms in two months. Could the cranks be worn already?
Cheers.

cython

Bombbastic22 wrote: »

Hi all,

I bought a Giant Escape 1 (hybrid) two months ago and have had an annoying problem when shifting through the front derailleur. When I got it, I couldn’t get it into the big gear wheel at the front until I tweeked the limit screw slightly. I keep having recurring problems with it though, and even with having tweaked the limit screw – it’s a less than perfect gear shift – snapping in nicely sometimes and other times I have to hold it – which the guy in the shop says is normal.

Is there any pattern in the sprockets you are in at the back when you observe this difficulty shifting at the front? If you are in a large rear sprocket, you may be cross chaining, which could make shifting up onto the big ring at the front more difficult/less precise, at least in theory.

Bombbastic22 wrote: »

I've also developed problems with the rear gears popping out, particularly on hills in the lower gears - this started about six weeks after I bought the bike.

Define popping out? As in your chain drops to a smaller sprocket? Conversely to the above, are you in any particular ring on the front when this happens? Or does it occur in any particular sprocket on the back?

Bombbastic22 wrote: »

The gear system is a combination of Alvio and Deore and after many trips to the shop they said that maybe this was the problem.

Sounds like a copout, many bikes have a mix of component tiers, but for the most part similar generations are intercompatible, e.g. I have Sora shifters, Tiagra rear mech, Tiagra chainset, 2200/2300 front mech on my road bike, and I can get smooth running without what you describe. Not to mention that if it was down to the mix surely they would have seen it with other people bringing the same bike back to them with issues before now?

Bombbastic22 wrote: »

More recently I’m getting a slight crunch feeling and sort of metallic noise at a very specific point in the rotation of the pedals. It happens when the right pedal is about to begin it’s decent. You can feel it and hear a sort of noise. Took it into the shop and the guy said my gears were slightly out of alignment and he sorted it. I cycled it for 30seconds – same noise! Grrr.

The noise and slight crunch isn’t there when you rotate the pedals on a stand and I pointed this out to the guy in the shop where I bought it and asked him to take it for a spin to see what I meant – he said he wouldn’t because the bike was too big for him.

That sounds like a poor excuse, unless there's a massive height difference between ye. Could he come outside with you and have a listen as you cycle it around to try to demonstrate it? Is this in all gear combinations, or just in one or 2? I had a similar clinking issue before, and have since narrowed it down to poor choice of gear combinations, as when I was in small-small (bad idea, I know, but the chainline looked straight enough) the chain was just pulled to the right enough that it seemed to contact the big ring on each revolution, and make a little noise.

Bombbastic22 wrote: »

Took it to another bike shop and he said he thought the gears were okay and that it was a problem with the cranks – a worn bearing. I have done about 1800kms in two months. Could the cranks be worn already?
Cheers.

Conceivably the bottom bracket bearings could be giving trouble (the cranks are unlikely to wear out in this manner), but it could be any number of other things too. If the BB is knackered though, it's my understanding that it should at least run a little rough if rotated by hand with the chain off, so perhaps try that?

Bombbastic22

Wow, cheers for the detailed reply.

It happens in every gear, it doesn't matter. It seems to be at a very specific point in the rotation as mentioned above.

You can't feel anything when you rotate the pedals from stationary - you have to get on the bike and cycle.

I seem to drop the bike in and they say they'll have a look at it and I get it back and same problem(s) as soon as I go out the door. It seems rotating the pedals on the stand and physically cycling the bike are a different dynamic.

Very annoying! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Bombbastic22

cython wrote: »

Define popping out? As in your chain drops to a smaller sprocket? Conversely to the above, are you in any particular ring on the front when this happens? Or does it occur in any particular sprocket on the back?

Well, it's like it keeps trying to go into a higher gear instead of staying where it is. Sometimes you could be going up a hill in a particular gear and pow - it losses all resistance! :mad::mad::mad:

I am most of the time on the front ring and try to avoid cross chain.

mfdc

The noise could be your bottom bracket. I had something similar on my old hybrid, a clicking that only happened at a certain point in the pedal stroke. Eventually I decided to clean the BB and took the cranks off, only to have the non driveside cup (it was a MegaExo bb) fall apart in a puddle of rust (protip: do lots of maintenance through the winter, especially if riding through snow ). I ordered another one then put it back together cos I needed to get to work the next day, and it was quiet and felt pretty smooth when turned by hand - only clicked when I was riding it.

For your gears on the back - the cable has probably stretched. New cables do that in the first couple of weeks. Especially since you're describing that it's trying to get into a smaller cog when it shouldn't be (ie there's less tension on the cable than there was => it's stretched a bit). There's probably a little barrel adjuster knob on the downtube/rear der/shifter that you can play with to get it tensioned properly. Just turn that 1/4 turn then head up and down the road a bit to see if the problem is better or worse. If better try another 1/4 turn, if worse then try turning the other way. It's tedious but it'll get you there in the end.

Same thing for your front der, if you've already set the limit screws then try increasing the tension on the cable a bit and see if that makes the shift easier.

Bombbastic22

mfdc wrote: »

The noise could be your bottom bracket. I had something similar on my old hybrid, a clicking that only happened at a certain point in the pedal stroke. Eventually I decided to clean the BB and took the cranks off, only to have the non driveside cup (it was a MegaExo .

I do play with the barrel adjuster a bit and it does seem to solve the problem for a bit. It keeps recurring though.

Do you think the bottom bracket could be gone within two months of getting a new bike (did 1800kms in that time)? It's more than a click though - there is a slight crunchy feeling at the point mentioned.

Thanks.

cython

Bombbastic22 wrote: »

Well, it's like it keeps trying to go into a higher gear instead of staying where it is. Sometimes you could be going up a hill in a particular gear and pow - it losses all resistance! :mad::mad::mad:

I am most of the time on the front ring and try to avoid cross chain.

Which front ring?

Bombbastic22

cython wrote: »

Which front ring?

Typo. The middle ring in the front. The bike has three.

cython

Ok, and when you say it loses all resistance going up a hill, do you mean that it changes to a bigger ring on the back, or a smaller one on the front then? That would seem to be an overly tight table, but that doesn't fit with some of the other symptoms you're describing.

The bottom bracket could be gone in that time, but given the typical lifespan of these things, it would want to have seen a lot of abuse, or improper cleaning in that time. By improper cleaning, I mean a power hose or lashings of degreaser put all over it. From the Giant site, that bike seems to have a cartridge BB (not the type that mfdc was talking about).

If you want to try tackling each problem one at a time, I would focus on the gears first, as it is something that you can quite easily manage yourself, and follow these guides. It may take you some time the first time, but it's worth learning. As to the crank noise, try to pin down whether it happens under load (i.e. high resistance), or with the cranks moving freely (e.g. spinning down a hill in a low gear), when you're in or out of the saddle, etc. Something seems to be different between when you have the bike on the stand and out of it, and it could even be flex in the frame causing rubbing that you don't see when it's in the stand. As unlikely as that seems, I can cause flex in my frame by pushing on the pedal when not moving (heavy bastard), so if there is a close pass normally, your weight could make the difference to cause a rub.

Holyboy

As for the noise from the BB area, Giant never put enough grease on the threads and never torque them up tight enough,it may just need to be refitted properly with some new grease,as for the rest,i would try to find a good shop somewhere that could actually fix your bike instead of making excuses!

Bombbastic22

cython wrote: »

Ok, and when you say it loses all resistance going up a hill, do you mean that it changes to a bigger ring on the back, or a smaller one on the front then? That would seem to be an overly tight table, but that doesn't fit with some of the other symptoms you're describing.

The bottom bracket could be gone in that time, but given the typical lifespan of these things, it would want to have seen a lot of abuse, or improper cleaning in that time. By improper cleaning, I mean a power hose or lashings of degreaser put all over it. From the Giant site, that bike seems to have a cartridge BB (not the type that mfdc was talking about).

If you want to try tackling each problem one at a time, I would focus on the gears first, as it is something that you can quite easily manage yourself, and follow these guides. It may take you some time the first time, but it's worth learning. As to the crank noise, try to pin down whether it happens under load (i.e. high resistance), or with the cranks moving freely (e.g. spinning down a hill in a low gear), when you're in or out of the saddle, etc. Something seems to be different between when you have the bike on the stand and out of it, and it could even be flex in the frame causing rubbing that you don't see when it's in the stand. As unlikely as that seems, I can cause flex in my frame by pushing on the pedal when not moving (heavy bastard), so if there is a close pass normally, your weight could make the difference to cause a rub.

Well, there was a build up of black gunk won the cogs and that so, as per an internet video about cleaning your chain, I sprayed wd40 on it and cleaned it after with a towel - then I oiled it. I did this cos there was a bit of racket and unsmooth shifting going on. It didn't help much though really. F****** annoying so it is!

Bombbastic22

Holyboy wrote: »

As for the noise from the BB area, Giant never put enough grease on the threads and never torque them up tight enough,it may just need to be refitted properly with some new grease,as for the rest,i would try to find a good shop somewhere that could actually fix your bike instead of making excuses!

My thought exactly. Took it to another shop and they identified several problems in seconds!

He said the fly wheel was loose (not assembled right), the brakes weren't on the right sides (and so not working optimally), the chain is stretched (though he didn't think this was causing the clunky noise thing) and there is a bit of play in the cranks.

I don't care if it costs to have the bike fixed (when it should be done under warranty anyway), be just great to have people look at it who know what they're at - cos the other boys don't seem to have a clue. Going to fire the bill into the other lads though - since they wasted a lot of my time and if they don't pay me back the cost - will be writing a lot of letters and reviews about the place and it will cost them more.

I'm so sick of the crap service you get in far too many places in this country! All these people seem to be good at is taking your cash and it's f*** off after that.

Bombbastic22

cython wrote: »

Ok, and when you say it loses all resistance going up a hill, do you mean that it changes to a bigger ring on the back, or a smaller one on the front then? That would seem to be an overly tight table, but that doesn't fit with some of the other symptoms you're describing.

It bounces out of the ring at the back and tries to go into the bigger one but then just goes back into the smaller one and repeats until you change gear altogether.

Reckon it should be sorted tomorrow though, the lads I took it to today seem to know what they're on about.

Bombbastic22

Well, the new guys I took it to seem to know there stuff anyway.

I was told that there was something in the cranks that hadn't been tightened up properly in the factory and it would have gotten worse as time went by.

Was worth every penny of the 15euro I paid - even if it was under warranty and should have cost me nothing.

Holyboy

Bombbastic22 wrote: »

Well, the new guys I took it to seem to know there stuff anyway.

I was told that there was something in the cranks that hadn't been tightened up properly in the factory and it would have gotten worse as time went by.

Was worth every penny of the 15euro I paid - even if it was under warranty and should have cost me nothing.

Super news,as I said above it was probably the BB that wasnt fitted properly,hope the bike runs smoothly for you now:) oh and I completely agree with your point of terrible service in this country and alot of bike shops would be at the top of the money grabbing bad service list,just because of the boom time they are having now!

Bombbastic22

Holyboy wrote: »

Super news,as I said above it was probably the BB that wasnt fitted properly,hope the bike runs smoothly for you now:) oh and I completely agree with your point of terrible service in this country and alot of bike shops would be at the top of the money grabbing bad service list,just because of the boom time they are having now!

Eh, perhaps it just depends where you go and you can just be a bit unlucky.

Have to say, the lads that fixed it were very enthusiastic and eager to chatter! They seemed to know their stuff very well.Very happy!

Holyboy

Bombbastic22 wrote: »

Eh, perhaps it just depends where you go and you can just be a bit unlucky.

Have to say, the lads that fixed it were very enthusiastic and eager to chatter! They seemed to know their stuff very well.Very happy!

Well then name them and give them a bit of free advertising,it can be hit and miss with shops so if youve found a good one,share it.

Bombbastic22

Holyboy wrote: »

Well then name them and give them a bit of free advertising,it can be hit and miss with shops so if youve found a good one,share it.

West Side Cycles! Very enthusiastic lads. The owner Alan spent about half an hour chattering to me and you can tell he is very passionate about bikes, loves cycling, loves fixing them and loves talking about them! It was rather refreshing.

It was well worth the 15euro to get it sorted. It was rather head wrecking.