Docker's strike of the 1980's

Finnbar01

Ok folks, I've heard about this a few times. But whta I would really like to kown is:

* What caused it?
* How did the strike play out?
* How was it resolved?
* what medium to long term effects did it have?

Any historian like to take a stab at it?

Cheers.

dayshah

There is a book called 'a labour history of Waterford' by Emmet O'Connor.

I'd expect you'd find it in the Library. It was published in 1989, but it might have some information.

Nolanger

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Ok folks, I've heard about this a few times. But whta I would really like to kown is:
* What caused it?

Too young to remember.

Finnbar01 wrote: »

* How did the strike play out?

Lasted a decade and some of the striking dockers fell out.

Finnbar01 wrote: »

* How was it resolved?

Some union guy from Dublin came down and sorted it out in the early '90s.

Finnbar01 wrote: »

* what medium to long term effects did it have?
Any historian like to take a stab at it?
Cheers.

Killed off the docks in Waterford and the cranes fell apart. Turned respectable people into alcoholics and long-term unemployed.

dayshah

Nolanger wrote: »

Killed off the docks in Waterford and the cranes fell apart.

Are you sure it killed off the docks? There was the new terminal at Bellview.

But I remember what killed off the docks was a storm which blew over one crane, which then fell on the second. The cranes should have been parked farther apart, so if one fell the other would be ok, but we lost both of them

I sort of miss those Bell containers.

Nolanger

Nah, the docks were up at the top of the quay just before the bridge and had a few cranes there. There were fathers and sons working there. Also on the opposite side of the river too.

allthedoyles

R & H Hall closed and moved to Ringaskiddy .
Tedcastles and Morris Coal disbanded too .

Bell containers moved to Belview Port which was a huge success story , before the economy changed things . ( some of the container companies have now moved to Dublin Port )

Coal boats were discharged at New Ross during the strike .

I don't think there were any medium /long term bad effects , due to the opening of Belview Port . ( although bear in mind that Belview is in Co. Kilkenny )

Bards

allthedoyles wrote: »

R & H Hall closed and moved to Ringaskiddy .
Tedcastles and Morris Coal disbanded too .

Bell containers moved to Belview Port which was a huge success story , before the economy changed things . ( some of the container companies have now moved to Dublin Port )

Coal boats were discharged at New Ross during the strike .

I don't think there were any medium /long term bad effects , due to the opening of Belview Port . ( although bear in mind that Belview is in Co. Kilkenny )

....

add to that The Clyde Shipping Co. Closed too

wellboytoo

Add to that it copper fastened the national attitude that Waterford is a strike ridden belligerent impossible place to do business with the unions, or anyone else, It was a sad and disgusting part of our history led by a couple of dyed in the wool old style union agitators not helped by a Harbour Board led by an impossible to deal with individual.
The Unions did not cover themselves in glory on this one.
It is best left in the past a sad time for our City.

giles lynchwood

Belview port did not exsist at this time.
The Cause.
There was team´s of docker´s known as gang´s to unload each ship about 10 members in each gang.When a gang member died it was common practice not to replace him and divide up his wage´s between the remaining members of his gang,this was allowed to go on for years until the recession of the 80´s when the Harbour board decided to put a stop to it as part of their cost cutting plan.The docker´s refused and would not even enter into talk´s,went on strike, which lasted 13 years, during this time not one ship was allowed to use Waterford port.
The Effect.
Bear in mind Waterford port has two massive advantage´s over it´s rival`s,Dublin and Cork.
1) It has a bigger draft,i.e it can accomadate bigger ships.
2) It is the closest Irish port to mainland Europe.
Waterford Industrial estate was in it´s infancy at this time and seeking international companies,to set up there,but because it was not possable for them to import raw materials via Waterford port,shipping material to Dublin or Cork and then by road or rail to Waterford was never going to happen,Waterford industrial estate lost out big time to Dublin and Cork and only got a few crumbs from the table i.e the IDA.Waterford was one of the worst hit regions of the eighties recession,with massive unemployment.
Waterford also got the dubious tag as being very millant,our chipboard factory had also closed due to a strike,ironically one of the first ships to use Waterford port after the strike came to collect bales of Irish timber for export,that was used to make chipboard which was then reimported.
In the early 90´s the leader of SIPTU (recently formed)brokered a deal and to much fanfair(RTE even showed up) the first ship sailed up the mighty suir,only to be stormed by the docker´s who staged a sit in for a few days,as if enough damage had not been done, evenually she was allowed to leave empty,but not before the captain gave an interview to RTE,broadcast all over Europe saying he will never use waterford port again and will be adviseing all captains to do the same as a quick turaround is the name of the game in shipping.During this time Cork grew into the region you see today,great roads and the countrys second airport,this was ours for the taking.I have my own opinions on this era but i will let you decide for youself all i will say is that it was digraceful to let a small few ruin it for so many.Waterford port was our greatest asset and can be again as was proven by the tall ships.
Lynchwood

dayshah

giles lynchwood wrote: »

Waterford port was our greatest asset and can be again as was proven by the tall ships.
Lynchwood

I'm a bit confused.

Is Belview Waterford Port now?

BlaasForRafa

dayshah wrote: »

Are you sure it killed off the docks? There was the new terminal at Bellview.

But I remember what killed off the docks was a storm which blew over one crane, which then fell on the second. The cranes should have been parked farther apart, so if one fell the other would be ok, but we lost both of them

I sort of miss those Bell containers.

I think you are mistaken on this. Bell lines were at Belview when the massive storm happened and it was there that one crane was inadequately secured and the wind blew with such force that it was moved and fell on the other one.

http://www.waterford-news.ie/news/gbeygboj/

I recall it as I was working in the despatch dept of a company that used Bell lines a lot and we had to scramble to find other shipping lines to take our cargos to europe. It took about 6 different companies to cover the work that Bell was taking from us.

BlaasForRafa

dayshah wrote: »

I'm a bit confused.

Is Belview Waterford Port now?

Its been called Port of Waterford pretty much since it started.

dayshah

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

I think you are mistaken on this. Bell lines were at Belview when the massive storm happened and it was there that one crane was inadequately secured and the wind blew with such force that it was moved and fell on the other one.

But I remember 2 magnetic container cranes on the North Quay. I thought it was one of those that blew over.

I hope its not some sort of acid flashback :eek:

BlaasForRafa

dayshah wrote: »

But I remember 2 magnetic container cranes on the North Quay. I thought it was one of those that blew over.

I hope its not some sort of acid flashback :eek:

Well you are right in thinking there were two big container cranes on the north quay but they weren't nearly as big as those that were down in Belview.

Also I don't think either of them ever blew over (though I stand to be corrected on that) so it might be a bit of a flashback there lol

marlin vs

The crane that blew down was in Bellview, the wind caught it and it was de-railed.

wellboytoo

A Grain crane also tipped over when being fitted to Halls and a Dutch engineer was killed , this may be confusing the story.

mike65

I've got some pics of the Bellview crane failure. Must dig them out

As for the North Wharf strike, as mentioned above Waterfords been a byword for belligerent unions every since.

Psychedelic

giles lynchwood wrote: »

Belview port did not exsist at this time.
The Cause.
There was team´s of docker´s known as gang´s to unload each ship about 10 members in each gang.When a gang member died it was common practice not to replace him and divide up his wage´s between the remaining members of his gang,this was allowed to go on for years until the recession of the 80´s when the Harbour board decided to put a stop to it as part of their cost cutting plan.The docker´s refused and would not even enter into talk´s,went on strike, which lasted 13 years, during this time not one ship was allowed to use Waterford port.
The Effect.
Bear in mind Waterford port has two massive advantage´s over it´s rival`s,Dublin and Cork.
1) It has a bigger draft,i.e it can accomadate bigger ships.
2) It is the closest Irish port to mainland Europe.
Waterford Industrial estate was in it´s infancy at this time and seeking international companies,to set up there,but because it was not possable for them to import raw materials via Waterford port,shipping material to Dublin or Cork and then by road or rail to Waterford was never going to happen,Waterford industrial estate lost out big time to Dublin and Cork and only got a few crumbs from the table i.e the IDA.Waterford was one of the worst hit regions of the eighties recession,with massive unemployment.
Waterford also got the dubious tag as being very millant,our chipboard factory had also closed due to a strike,ironically one of the first ships to use Waterford port after the strike came to collect bales of Irish timber for export,that was used to make chipboard which was then reimported.
In the early 90´s the leader of SIPTU (recently formed)brokered a deal and to much fanfair(RTE even showed up) the first ship sailed up the mighty suir,only to be stormed by the docker´s who staged a sit in for a few days,as if enough damage had not been done, evenually she was allowed to leave empty,but not before the captain gave an interview to RTE,broadcast all over Europe saying he will never use waterford port again and will be adviseing all captains to do the same as a quick turaround is the name of the game in shipping.During this time Cork grew into the region you see today,great roads and the countrys second airport,this was ours for the taking.I have my own opinions on this era but i will let you decide for youself all i will say is that it was digraceful to let a small few ruin it for so many.Waterford port was our greatest asset and can be again as was proven by the tall ships.
Lynchwood

How can a strike go on for 13 years - I assume the strikers weren't being paid, so how could they live? Surely no ships (i.e. business) in 13 years would have been a lot worse for the strikers than not being able to share a pay increase when one of them died? Did the strikers have a lot of support from the general public in Waterford? Where are they all now, like are they still involved in local unions and/or working for local companies?

dayshah

Psychedelic wrote: »

How can a strike go on for 13 years - I assume the strikers weren't being paid, so how could they live? Surely no ships (i.e. business) in 13 years would have been a lot worse for the strikers than not being able to share a pay increase when one of them died? Did the strikers have a lot of support from the general public in Waterford? Where are they all now, like are they still involved in local unions and/or working for local companies?

I suppose they got strike pay. What union were they in?

mike65

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/1987/10/22/00006.asp

allthedoyles

dayshah wrote: »

I suppose they got strike pay. What union were they in?

Would more than likely have been the ITGWU ( Irish Transport & General Workers Union )

Strike pay would have been about £5 a week .

merlante

mike65 wrote: »

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/1987/10/22/00006.asp

Sad to see it play out like that. A state imposed solution was obviously what was needed and the minister wasn't interested in upsetting anybody. Was this B. Ahern Bertie? I think so. These are his famous dispute resolution skills in action.

wellboytoo

Psychedelic wrote: »

How can a strike go on for 13 years - I assume the strikers weren't being paid, so how could they live? Surely no ships (i.e. business) in 13 years would have been a lot worse for the strikers than not being able to share a pay increase when one of them died? Did the strikers have a lot of support from the general public in Waterford? Where are they all now, like are they still involved in local unions and/or working for local companies?

A few of them drive Taxis still

giles lynchwood

Marine port and general workers union .If i remember correctly.Based in Britan as far as i know.

irishfinster

hi
im very sorry but can someone help me. im trying to create a thread but dont know how. can anyone point me in right direction, please.

fin

mecco

irishfinster wrote: »

hi
im very sorry but can someone help me. im trying to create a thread but dont know how. can anyone point me in right direction, please.

fin

Go to whatever forum you want, click forum tools at the top right and then click post a new thread. Enjoy.

Psychedelic

dayshah wrote: »

I suppose they got strike pay. What union were they in?

13 years of strike pay though! Surely any union would run out of funds well before then, even if they were paying a small amount to the strikers.

Madness when you think about it, and all it resulted in at the end was all the dock jobs were lost. And other jobs would've been lost as a knock-on effect.

wellboytoo wrote: »

A few of them drive Taxis still

That makes sense, we have recent enough experience of local taxi drivers calling strikes over fcuk all. My father was a taxi driver for 18 years after leaving the glass, used to be always telling me about the mindset of a lot of taxi drivers, so I'm not surprised if some of them were dock strikers.

dayshah

Psychedelic wrote: »

That makes sense, we have recent enough experience of local taxi drivers calling strikes over fcuk all. My father was a taxi driver for 18 years after leaving the glass, used to be always telling me about the mindset of a lot of taxi drivers, so I'm not surprised if some of them were dock strikers.

It does take 2 to tango though. From the looks of it there was a personality clash from union and management sides. Not though that justifies interfering when SIPTU helped resolve the issue.

allthedoyles

dayshah wrote: »

I'm a bit confused.
Is Belview Waterford Port now?

Belview Port is in Co Kilkenny , but is run by the Port of Waterford Company .

Rent and rates are paid to Kilkenny Co. Co. as far as I know .

Here is a photo of Belview Port I took some years ago.:

dayshah

OK, off topic, but would it not make sense to have a rail link between the port and industrial estate?

allthedoyles

The railway actually passes through Belview Port , - The tracks are just inside the trees ,that you see in photo .