Surveyors report my ar@#!

Joshua2011

Hi,I am new on here. Just under two years ago I bought a house. I enlisted the services of a surveyor to check the place over. In his report he noted a damp patch over the main entrance door. There wasand still is no such damp patch. He also failed to report some faults, such asa badly corroded and leaking immersion tank, a large concrete patch in the middle of the laminate floor in the lounge, which was covered with a rug and worse of all, the fact that the heating system was not working. We had to replace the gas boiler completely. The surveyor only noted in his report that "the house is gas fired central heated, but I can't testify as to whether or not it is working as it is not switched on at this time of the year". This was in late August, however thinking about it now I ask myself, why did the surveyor not request that they switch on the heating briefly so that he could see it work? If they refused he could have noted such in his report, which would have prompted me to bring the matter up with the estate agent. As i was a first time buyer I didn't have any experience of buying a property before. I am putting this on Boards.ie as a caution to anyone out there who is considering hiring a surveyor under similar circumstances. My advice? Don't trust them Don't pay them until after you have read thu theie report- do so in their offices or in your home if they deliver the report to you. And take time in reading it. Any questions you have, ask them and don't pay upif you are not satisfied with their work or their explanations. You will of course have a solicitor handling things for you. Tell yopur solicitor you are hiring the surveyor and the surveyors name and business address. And don't make the mistake I made. If you have any questions regarding the report as well as questioning the surveyor, talk to the estate agent. If the surveyor left gaps in the report get them filled in, either by getting the surveyor to go back and do his/her job properly or by looking at the house again and asking the estate agent to fill in the gaps. Hope this helps.

dudara

Moved to Accomodation & Property

dudara

Slydice

Is the surveyors report supposed to check stuff like that?

I thought it was just stuff that could affect the structural integrity of the property

The_Conductor

Slydice wrote: »

Is the surveyors report supposed to check stuff like that?

I thought it was just stuff that could affect the structural integrity of the property

Correct......

OP- you have to check things out yourself- a surveyors report is all about the structural integrity of the property- not a hole in the lino, the heating system not being up to scratch etc........

I don't mean to sound cruel- but it sounds like you didn't bother to do rudementary checks yourself- or indeed communicate with the surveyor to clarify precisely what he or she was doing. None of the issues you've detailed in your post are the remit of a structural survey- they are all things that a buyer would give the one-over to themselves. There is also nothing there that is particularly onerous to repair/replace.......Sure it'll cost you- but thats all part of owning a home, these things happen.......

Penn

A surveyors report is generally a visual walkthrough inspection, and in many reports they include a section about having not checked to see if the heating works and that this should be inspected by a suitable professional. Visual inspection generally means they only comment on things they can see without moving furniture, lifting Lino etc. As for the damp patch, did they saying anything in the report about testing the wall for dampness with a moisture meter? Evidence of dampness might not always be visible.

silja

Joshua, are you from the USA by any chance? I ask because as others have said, a structural survey in Ireland is just that- a survey of the structural integrity of the house. Whereas in the USA, when we bought the house it included everything from missing shingles on the roof, the heating working but needing replaced in the next few years due to age, to "snag list" things such as the porch pillar needing painting.

amdublin

You are asking things of a surveyors report that you should have checked yourself

Victor

Was this an existing house, not new?

Joshua2011 wrote: »

In his report he noted a damp patch over the main entrance door. There wasand still is no such damp patch.

Did you ask him what this item meant?

He also failed to report some faults, such asa badly corroded and leaking immersion tank, a

While one would hope that was spotted, if it was leaking wably, surely the ceiling would have been marked?

large concrete patch in the middle of the laminate floor in the lounge, which was covered with a rug

This is what makes me think that this was an existing house. In buying a house, most people would not worry about something like this.

and worse of all, the fact that the heating system was not working. We had to replace the gas boiler completely. The surveyor only noted in his report that "the house is gas fired central heated, but I can't testify as to whether or not it is working as it is not switched on at this time of the year". This was in late August, however thinking about it now I ask myself, why did the surveyor not request that they switch on the heating briefly so that he could see it work?

This may have been less than diligent by the surveyor, but you can expect any existing system to need some work.

D3PO

Firstly you should have recieved a copy of his professional indemnity insurance with your report. This would allow you claim on his insurance should he have been negligent in doing his survey.

However

1) its two years later
2) your expectations of what he should be doing are unreasonable. I cant believe you genuinely think he should be lifting rugs to check out whats underneath them :rolleyes: his report said he didnt check the heating you didnt bother to check yourself so thats your fault not his/hers.
3) if the tank was leaking at that point you would know about it from stains on the roof as pointed out by Victor its fair to assume this wasnt the case 2 years ago when the inspection was done.

all in all I dont think your being reasonable in your apportining of blame relating to your problems with the house.

Joshua2011

If the heating system was not in the surveyor's remit, then why did he even mention it? This suggest to me that he did some check upon the presence of the boiler but stopped short of asking if it actually worked. If it was not in his remit then why bring it up at all in his report? As for the "damp patch", he stated such to have been "visible" above the door. Two years later and no sign of dampness or a damp patch. I wasn't saying it was up to the surveyor to check on such things. But I am wondering why the discrepencies between what was in this report and what are clearly the facts? There is also mention of sagging in the roof that is visible when standing at ground level outside of the house? There is no such thing. I am thinking the guy didn't come to this house at all? It wouldn't surprise me as I have already had another experience of such "expert reports". When getting my new boiler installed I applied for and was approved an SEAI grant. After the work was completed I commissioned a BER assessor. He brough back my BER report but pointed out that the BER given to me when I bought the house was grossly inaccurate as it gave the same rating as my current report. He stated that as the old boiler was over 10 yrs old and my new boiler was an energy efficient one, the old BER was not true. He reported this matter and the assessor responsible for the older report to the SEAI. There are people out there who will just throw out a mickey mouse report without doing any work at all. If a Ber assessor will do it, why not a surveyor?

The_Conductor

The heating system would probably get a mention- as it will be suggestive of a piping regime, an overflow system etc. Its pretty standard to state that a heating system of type x is present- but that would be the extent of it. A structural surveyor certainly wouldn't be qualified to diagnose faults with your heating system though- its an entirely different discipline.

Damp patch above the door- could be anything at all- if it doesn't appear visually to be impacting on the structural integrity of the building, standard would be to mention the presence of the damp spot- if you want to investigate it further- its your perogative.

Sagging in the roof- a visual inspection of roofing beams in the attic could show the start of sagging, long before it might be apparent externally. Was this comment in relation to an internal or an external inspection of the roof?

The BER certs are *not* a professional or expert inspection in the same manner as a structural report is- I think you only need a certificate in construction studies, along with the 3 day BER assessor course to be qualified to do BER assessments (I'm not joking, seriously, I'm not- its quite shocking).

Ray Palmer

It is really simple. The engineering report mentions what the house has not whether it is actual in good working order. You may have gotten a particularly bad surveyor but I would not ignore either a roof or damp problem if they are mentioned.

The BER rating is particularly stupid piece of documentation and as a whole not fit for the purpose people think it is for. You need to know a thing or two to read it accurately.

The people doing the BER certs are not highly qualified people and within the scope of what they have to do it isn't really very accurate. Some of it will come down to opinion too. If he read the boiler rating as new it may not have been as inaccurate as the other BER feels.

You have a misunderstanding of what you were getting in both the BER and your surveyor's report

snowey07

i just got a surveyers report a few weeks and he also covered many things that arent structural and when i asked he said it was standard to cover non structural things . he also said there was damp and hey ho he knows a damp person who can fix it :rolleyes:

an example of non structural comments : there is rear access and we want to know is there a right of way !

also ... would benefit from modernisation (sounds like an EA)

and my favourite ( structural) we cannot say if theres rot or beetle infestation as we did not investigate . So why mention it ???

D3PO

snowey07 wrote: »

and my favourite ( structural) we cannot say if theres rot or beetle infestation as we did not investigate . So why mention it ???

to remove liability if there happens to be rot or an infestation :rolleyes::rolleyes:

The_Conductor

Ok guys, I think this thread has run its course. OP- if you'd like me to reopen it, please PM me.

Kind regards,

Shane

Edit: Reopened again.....

Merch

Its bordering on a con,

I engaged the services of a well known surveyors when buying a property years ago.
I requested a report and was recommended on the basis of information I supplied that a structural report would be what I was looking for, it was, as I did not want a simple walkthrough like a building inspection.
I got the report, then the mortgage.

When I went about redecorating I found numerous problems not mentioned in the report which I considered were serious and should have been noticed by a person with experience/should have been subject to some examination that would identify potential problems.

I got back onto the company and was told
"oh we would have to take up the carpet/take down plaster/drill holes etc"
There's no point telling the OP they needed a structural report, I can tell you you're paying extra for more boxes checked, but nothing really done.

How can a structural report be requested/paid for, then only to be told, oh we cant really do a structural report unless we do damage, in other words, we recommend a structural report as its pays us better, but if you question it, we make excuses.
I had to insist they come back to look at problems and give me a report which I could have, to state in their professional opinion the problems I found subsequently would have no affect on the integrity of the building as I already had given it as part of my mortgage application.

I may as well have just gone in and done the report myself, was easy money for them until I insisted they return, which they only did under protest.

I felt despite their claims of professionalism, it seemed like they just checked the boxes and they were in and out and that it was just easy money for them.

Senna

Just in respect to the damp above. In my report it states figures for dampness, i.e. damp measurement in wall x was .456 it then says "within the 1.5 limit" (that's not the wording, but you get the idea). So i'm guessing a surveyor uses an electronic tool to measure damp, it probably gave a high reading over the door, but to the naked eye it looks ok.

It was also made very clear to me that a surveyor cant damage (drill holes etc) the house to compile a report, as the person paying for the report hasn't bought it yet. Its piece of mind, a professional person has looked at the house and has given a report based on what s/he saw. AFAIK, surveyors are insured, so if they miss something that they shouldn't have (was evident without drilling holes etc) then they can be held responsible.

I wouldn't be to quick to dismiss a report just because something mentioned in it looked fine to you. If the report says you have a sagging roof, you can bet that's going to be a problem soon.

Victor

Merch wrote: »

Its bordering on a con,

I engaged the services of a well known surveyors when buying a property years ago.
I requested a report and was recommended on the basis of information I supplied that a structural report would be what I was looking for, it was, as I did not want a simple walkthrough like a building inspection.

Only an engineer can do a structural report.

When I went about redecorating I found numerous problems not mentioned in the report which I considered were serious and should have been noticed by a person with experience/should have been subject to some examination that would identify potential problems.

In an occupied building, with furniture and rugs, it is easier to miss things than in an empty building.

I got back onto the company and was told "oh we would have to take up the carpet/take down plaster/drill holes etc"

And thats correct. How would they have been able to drill holes in a property you didn't own?

How can a structural report be requested/paid for, then only to be told, oh we cant really do a structural report unless we do damage, in other words, we recommend a structural report as its pays us better, but if you question it, we make excuses.

You are somewhere between unrealistic and disingenuous. A normal pre-purchase report, whether by a building surveyor or an engineer is basicly there to say that "this building is unlikely to fall down, but has problems XYZ". You will typically have to pay a few hundred euros for a house-sized building.

If you want a survey that says "this building is will never fall down (for the next 20/50/100 years)", you need to buy the building first, rip it apart, report, repair any problems and put it back together. This could cost €10,000-50,000 for a house-sized building.

I felt despite their claims of professionalism, it seemed like they just checked the boxes and they were in and out and that it was just easy money for them.

They did enough for your lender to be happy that they gave you the money.

How much did you pay?

Merch

Victor wrote: »

Only an engineer can do a structural report.

In an occupied building, with furniture and rugs, it is easier to miss things than in an empty building.


And thats correct. How would they have been able to drill holes in a property you didn't own?


You are somewhere between unrealistic and disingenuous. A normal pre-purchase report, whether by a building surveyor or an engineer is basicly there to say that "this building is unlikely to fall down, but has problems XYZ". You will typically have to pay a few hundred euros for a house-sized building.

If you want a survey that says "this building is will never fall down (for the next 20/50/100 years)", you need to buy the building first, rip it apart, report, repair any problems and put it back together. This could cost €10,000-50,000 for a house-sized building.

They did enough for your lender to be happy that they gave you the money.

How much did you pay?

Must have been an engineer then, cos thats what they told me I was paying for.
I understand its easy to not be able to see certain things but surely that is what you are paying the extra, which is for them to go beyond having a quick look around.


No problems were noted, there was extensive damp due to a leaking fitting,while it was covered up, thats what I was paying to find, I was lucky I didnt have to replace joists, but all that is what they are being payed for, if they had done some kind of test they might have noticed that there was something unusual. they clearly did not check,
I think you are having a go at me saying I'm somewhere between unrealistic and disingenuous, you dont know the circumstances so it cant be the latter, its easy for people/organisations that deal in this to say someone is being unrealistic, ok obvious you cannot rip the place apart, let alone drill holes, but while Im not 100% sure of the equipment, as far as I was aware checking for dampness/moisture content doesnt require that.

and its a bit smart saying, oh you'd have to rip the building down etc, thats being ridiculous.
Lenders were giving money away at the time, this was before things went gaga even, the bank would have accepted a less detailed report, I wanted and payed for what i thought and was told was a more detailed report, that didnt involve someone taking a look and simply checking the boxes! I was paying for a structural report and they didnt carry out anything other than a more detailed written report, but with nothing to back it up.
The extra money was a waste really.
I still recall how much i payed, but I dont see what thats got to do with anything?

Senna

Merch wrote: »

I still recall how much i payed, but I dont see what thats got to do with anything?

A surveyor can cost between €300 and €800+.
I went with a cheap option, my report was about €400 (2500sq ft) but if the surveyor missed anything i had no recourse. He did find about €4000 worth of problems that the vendor paid to put right, which in my view, €400 was money well spent.

Tea drinker

Senna wrote: »

A surveyor can cost between €300 and €800+.
I went with a cheap option, my report was about €400 (2500sq ft) but if the surveyor missed anything i had no recourse. He did find about €4000 worth of problems that the vendor paid to put right, which in my view, €400 was money well spent.

HI Senna, bit of a personal question but what sort of things did he find?
I ask as I want to get a feel for what to expect the guys to find/check


And how many hours would 400 euro buy you in non boom times? That's almost my hourly rate for a day (not what I get paid!!!) but I only build and spec computer networks

Senna

The biggest problem he found (although fairly minor) was something to do with the perlings in the roof, not sure if they were at the wrong height or something else. The seller got this fixed to excess, the suyvor said it was a minor point but the seller actually replaced something that didn't need to be replaced:D.
He also pointed out a good few minor things like, 2 broken ties on the roof, inadequate lagging jacket around tank and an area of the attic which wasn't insulated (out of sight in the off shoots). There may have been more but i cant put my hands on the report right now. The report and conversation with the surveyor put my mind at ease about the house, having a professional say that it looks well build gives good piece of mind (i knew his reputation was good which helped).

As for length of time, i have no idea i wasn't there, but considering he had to go back to the house a week later and make sure everything was done, then write a 5 page report, i'd say he must have spend a good bit of time on the job.

edit, should also say i'm in Donegal, might mean prices were/are a little cheaper here for services.

Victor

Senna wrote: »

The biggest problem he found (although fairly minor) was something to do with the perlings

http://www.google.ie/#hl=en&source=hp&q=perlings&oq=perlings&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=148210l150546l0l150832l8l8l0l0l0l0l348l1080l0.3.1.1l5&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=105ffc5bc52226eb&biw=1680&bih=892