Experiences learning to ride on a big bike?

--amadeus--

How do...

Quick bit of background, I've been driving for years and have had a few quick cars in the past but have just been talked into learning to ride by a mate. I finished the IBT yesterday on a 250 and had no real problems beyond the usual learner inexperience and needing practice stuff.

I wanted to get a bike so that I could go touring with my mate who has a V Strom. When I went into the bike shop the owner was very enthusiastic about the Honda Varedaro - he has owned several himself and a bike he used to own himself had just been traded in. It was already restricted and bang on my budget. I was worried about the power (its a 1000cc) and size but on the short test run it felt fine when it was moving and the sales guy said that it wouldn't take long to get used to the size and weight.

The trouble is I am finding it a bit of a struggle with low speed manoeuvres, balancing the clutch and throttle on such a heavy bike at trickle through junctions or on hill starts is tricky and if it stalls its a pig to catch (it's already bitten the dust after stalling mid turn).

Now I've only spent a couple of hours on the bike and about half that specifically practising the low speed stuff so I will obviously get better with time but I'm worried there might not be much bike left by then! I bought the bike on the assumption I'd have it until the 2 year restriction ended and it was bought for the long term not just learning on. And I figured that if I could manage a big bike straight away then I'd have no trouble riding anything.

So has anyone else ever learned on a bike that sort of size? Should I spend a few hundred buying myself a clapped out 125 to get me through the test and put the Varedaro away until then? Do I just bite the bullet, find a quiet car park and get on with it?

All advice welcome!

MrPudding

--amadeus-- wrote: »

How do...

Quick bit of background, I've been driving for years and have had a few quick cars in the past but have just been talked into learning to ride by a mate. I finished the IBT yesterday on a 250 and had no real problems beyond the usual learner inexperience and needing practice stuff.

I wanted to get a bike so that I could go touring with my mate who has a V Strom. When I went into the bike shop the owner was very enthusiastic about the Honda Varedaro - he has owned several himself and a bike he used to own himself had just been traded in. It was already restricted and bang on my budget. I was worried about the power (its a 1000cc) and size but on the short test run it felt fine when it was moving and the sales guy said that it wouldn't take long to get used to the size and weight.

The trouble is I am finding it a bit of a struggle with low speed manoeuvres, balancing the clutch and throttle on such a heavy bike at trickle through junctions or on hill starts is tricky and if it stalls its a pig to catch (it's already bitten the dust after stalling mid turn).

Now I've only spent a couple of hours on the bike and about half that specifically practising the low speed stuff so I will obviously get better with time but I'm worried there might not be much bike left by then! I bought the bike on the assumption I'd have it until the 2 year restriction ended and it was bought for the long term not just learning on. And I figured that if I could manage a big bike straight away then I'd have no trouble riding anything.

So has anyone else ever learned on a bike that sort of size? Should I spend a few hundred buying myself a clapped out 125 to get me through the test and put the Varedaro away until then? Do I just bite the bullet, find a quiet car park and get on with it?

All advice welcome!

Speaking from personal experience, I think you should get something smaller to get used to handling a bike. I ride a big bike, and it takes some getting used to. I bought a smaller bile first to get a bit of experience and get the hang of riding and learn how to do the slow speed stuff.

Once you crack the slow speed stuff on a small bike it transfers reasonably easily to a bigger bike.

MrP

Idleater

Surely power isn't an issue as it's restricted to 25kw isn't it???

So it's the weight that's your next hurdle. Those big trailies are heavy all right, and if I'm honest, probably have accounted for that in the unrestricted power in the engine. Therefore restricted they'll be a bit more of a handful handling wise than say a restricted gsxr600 which would have similar unrestricted power (guessing here ~120hp) but less weight to lug around when restricted. You're more likely to notice this when slow moving or hill starts.
They're tall bikes too, so assuming you're tall enough,getting used to its balance will come in time.
Personally I love the v twins, and learned myself on them. As restrictions go, it impacts twins less as they produce more torque than power low down in the unrestricted range.

MrPudding

Idleater wrote: »

Surely power isn't an issue as it's restricted to 25kw isn't it???

So it's the weight that's your next hurdle. Those big trailies are heavy all right, and if I'm honest, probably have accounted for that in the unrestricted power in the engine. Therefore restricted they'll be a bit more of a handful handling wise than say a restricted gsxr600 which would have similar unrestricted power (guessing here ~120hp) but less weight to lug around when restricted. You're more likely to notice this when slow moving or hill starts.
They're tall bikes too, so assuming you're tall enough,getting used to its balance will come in time.
Personally I love the v twins, and learned myself on them. As restrictions go, it impacts twins less as they produce more torque than power low down in the unrestricted range.

I think you are right, it is the height and the balance that gives the problem. I have a big trailie myself and it does take some getting used to. I think I would have had a lot more trouble had I not used a smaller bike first.

MrP

--amadeus--

Cheers for the replies.

The engine is a detuned version of the Firestorm V Twin and unrestricted generates 90 - 95bhp but obviously that's now down to just 33. But as you guys have said it's got bundles of torque. It's keeping all of that mass balanced while making sure that I don't stall that I am struggling with. The frustrating thing is that when I get it all nicely set up I can feel that it's right but more often I feel like I am teetering on the brink! The thing is that if the height and weight take getting used to anyway I'm not sure I'd be a lot further forward if I had a smaller bike for now - surely I'll just be back here again in a couple of months time?

I've dropped a mail to my IBT instructor - she has a 500cc bike and I think I might do a couple of hours on that and see if I can pick up the skills in the hope that I can then transfer them up, I need patience - it's the usual story of expecting to be brilliant straight away!

gipi

Just remember that for your A test, the bike would have to be bigger than 125cc - so if you buy a smaller bike, don't make it too small!

brian plank

why didn't you just look for a 250 considering you got on well with the test bike . sounds like the salesman seen you coming.

eurofoxy

its no harm having a big bike to start with, it just takes getting used to, when i started out i like you went to a showroom with an idea in mind....
But i sat on almost every bike and took several for a drive, i bought a restricted cbr 600.... its a big bike that i have to say when i sit on it now still gives me goose bumps just the sound everything...

But and i will say this as honestly as i can that bike will kill me, it has tried on several occasions but i was able to get out of trouble.....
What used to happen was the bike would just stop accelerating and almost start to slow down this on overtaking was a scary experience.... but i learned from it and i recently decided that i have to change so i bought myself a 2011 250 ninja...So now i have my big bike for the good times and the ninja for everything else...
I have learned more on the ninja than i ever would have on the cbr as not having to carry the extra weight of the bike is a pleasure, the cbr is by no means a heavy bike but at slow speeds its a real pain and i think its exacerbated by the fact that its restricted wheras the ninja tight turns etc are a breeze....and city driving with the ninja is great craic, filtering is good fun too....

My advice think about a second smaller bike to learn the essentials but keep the bigger bike for the fun stuff, as when the restriction on the licence is up a 250 just wont hack it anymore.....

AgileMyth

In my opinion you just need to spend more time on it. Just get out as often as you can and be very careful at low speeds not to get caught out. Its an unusual choice for a beginner but thats not to say it impossible.

cantdecide

+1

First off, I can assure you, OP, if you give yourself enough time, you will fully come to terms with it. The first thing to know is that you should ease yourself into the process. Gentle figure 8's in an empty car park is the way to begin. You will get to really tricky stuff later. The second thing to understand is that you haven't had lots of experience from hopping from bike to bike. I bet after after you got your first car, it took ages to get used to your second car. I bet you can hop from car to car to van etc now without thinking about it. You have direct experience of only the 250. I guarantee you'd be having the same crisis of confidence if you'd just bought a hornet 250.

In my case, from totally green, I did a grade 2 over two days. The first day was on a cbf 250. The second day was on a factory restricted transalp 650 (which I also borrowed for my test). My first bike was a bandit 600 and I learned virtually incident free. After 5 months, I switched over to the restricted GSX1400. After three and a half years, I still have the 1400 and I've also had a Blackbird and currently have a 'Busa too. The Transalp was 191kg dry, the Bandit was 208kg dry and the 1400 was 228kg dry.

inchiuvatu

i wouldn't worry too much about the weight of the bike, if you just get used to the biting point in the clutch, for slow manuvers just build up the revs a little and use the clutch to control your speed and if you find yourself going a bit fast and need to slow down use only your back brake for stability.

For hill starts treat the back brake as your handbrake from a car, at a stop your foot should be on the brake anyway build up the revs get your biting point and as you feel the bike wanting to pull gently release the back brake and the bike will climb any hill you point it at.

for every turn you want to look were want to go.. so if your doing a U turn you dont look at the opposite curb, your start the turn and as soon as you can you want to look up the road in the direction your aiming for... its a subconcious thing and doesn't affect everyone the same but pretty much if you focus on an object or point in the road you are going to drive towards it, (thats why i almost crash anytime i drive past a good looking girl)

dont worry about the bike over reving when practicing you will find the right balance in no time.. was at the mondello training day and they start with all the slow drills and the ammount of seasoned bikers who struggled with delicate clutch control and slow balance surprised me... now they blitzed the track but the slow stuff people tend to ignore.

MrPudding

cantdecide wrote: »

+1

First off, I can assure you, OP, if you give yourself enough time, you will fully come to terms with it.

The problem is, coming to terms with it will probably mean dropping it a few more times...

Learning the basic on a small bike that either you can save, or you don't mind when it falls seems more sensible.

MrP

cantdecide

MrPudding wrote: »

The problem is, coming to terms with it will probably mean dropping it a few more times...

Learning the basic on a small bike that either you can save, or you don't mind when it falls seems more sensible.

MrP

I disagree. Firstly, 'enough time' could be less than a week. The rest of my previous post outlines my experience of learning on big bikes. I dropped my Bandit just once and that was more because I was too inexperienced to realise the headstock bearing was kaput.

The OP already owns a bike. I genuinely believe that going out with another fistful of his hard-earned would be a fool's errand. Buying and shifting bikes can be a lot of hassle. You could easily lose more money on a practise bike than on a decent set of crash mushrooms. If he has completed IBT, he knows the basics, presumably. The sensible thing at this stage, IMO, is persevere and invest time in practice.

--amadeus--

Well thanks again for the input - lots of food for thought there.

I don't think the sales guy saw me coming - I know him from buying a twist & go scooter and bits of gear and he sold me the bike I asked for; learner legal, able to tour and that would last me the duration of my restriction.

You're right, having done the IBT I know the basics, my issue was putting that onto such a tall and heavy bike, especially one with a pretty torquey engine (at least by the standards of the 250 I had ridden previously). I didn't help myself by thinking that the only way to work it out was to go out and practice slow speed stuff until I got it right, I just ended up getting frustrated.

So just now I took the bike out for a few miles on a mix of town and country roads. I covered roundabouts, traffic lights at a hill start, twisties, right and left junctions, trickling with traffic. I won't claim I was any way brilliant but I didn't stall and the bike felt much more secure out on the real roads than it did at walking speed in a car park. I think it is just a case of getting used to it - no doubt I will drop it again but I'm certainly feeling better about it today!

Thanks again for the advice

AgileMyth

Glad to hear. You'll get there. When you read this thread back in a years time you won't believe it was even an issue.

unclebill98

Hi op. Late in.

I started on a small bike and moved to a large bike within 2 months. 220kg to a 330kg bike.

Defo harder to control at low speed. After 6 months its a lot easier. So keep in there, it will get easier.

unclebill98

Hi op. Late in.

I started on a small bike and moved to a large bike within 2 months. 220kg to a 330kg bike.

Defo harder to control at low speed. After 6 months its a lot easier. So keep in there, it will get easier.

Paparazzo

For cutting out on corners:
Let the clutch slip a bit and give it a few revs when going around a corner. It shouldn't cut out though, unless maybe the engine is cold and it's one of your first corners.

amacca

cantdecide wrote: »

I dropped my Bandit just once and that was more because I was too inexperienced to realise the headstock bearing was kaput.

did it happen while you were still moving? :eek:

did the steering just seize? was it stiff or grinding beforehand?

never had this happen to me but really dont like the sound of it

RosieJoe

Amadeus, never under estimate the power and ability of the back brake. inchiuvatu mentioned it when talking about hills starts but it also a great tool to use at slow speed. Using it allows you to have the engine revving a bit higher so it won't stall, plus it is great for lessening the turning circle too.

Del2005

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Well thanks again for the input - lots of food for thought there.

I don't think the sales guy saw me coming - I know him from buying a twist & go scooter and bits of gear and he sold me the bike I asked for; learner legal, able to tour and that would last me the duration of my restriction.

You're right, having done the IBT I know the basics, my issue was putting that onto such a tall and heavy bike, especially one with a pretty torquey engine (at least by the standards of the 250 I had ridden previously). I didn't help myself by thinking that the only way to work it out was to go out and practice slow speed stuff until I got it right, I just ended up getting frustrated.

So just now I took the bike out for a few miles on a mix of town and country roads. I covered roundabouts, traffic lights at a hill start, twisties, right and left junctions, trickling with traffic. I won't claim I was any way brilliant but I didn't stall and the bike felt much more secure out on the real roads than it did at walking speed in a car park. I think it is just a case of getting used to it - no doubt I will drop it again but I'm certainly feeling better about it today!

Thanks again for the advice

How tall are you? Can both your feet comfortably reach the ground when you're stopped on level ground? The bike may be too big for you to learn on and you've also no confidence, maybe even do 1 or 2 lesson on the 500 to gain confidence and then go back to the Varedero.

But since you're worried about low speed drops invest in these or these

--amadeus--

Del2005 wrote: »

How tall are you? Can both your feet comfortably reach the ground when you're stopped on level ground? The bike may be too big for you to learn on and you've also no confidence, maybe even do 1 or 2 lesson on the 500 to gain confidence and then go back to the Varedero.

But since you're worried about low speed drops invest in these or these

Thanks for the links. I'm a six footer and can put my left foot flat at junctions but not both flat at the same time.

TBH I feel a bit daft for putting this up now. When I posted it I'd spent maybe an hour on the bike so it's no wonder I was a little short on ability! Since then I have ridden it a fair bit (close on 60 miles) and while I'm fAr from perfect I don't feel at all unstable now. I had a lesson on my own bike yesterday and was told that I need to build confidence in my right turns and trust the bike not to fall if I bank it (strangely I bank fine on the left) but other than that all my control is good.

So the moral of the story is not to give up!

FGR

I'm in the same boat as yourself OP as regards right turns. I'm after buying a Bandit 650s and although I'm comfortable with most manoeuvres it's the right turns + banking where I fall short of having some sort of basic competence.

It should all come with time.