AIB Visa Debit Card roll out thread

Solair

I notice AIB refers to Laser card simply as "AIB Debit Card" on a lot of their marketing literature, website etc. So, I would assume they're distancing themselves from the branding and keeping their options open.

They also recently rolled out SecureCode from MasterCard on their Laser/Maestro cards, but they're still unusable internationally!

I'd say it's possible that they might roll out either Visa or MasterCard debit before long. I'd say it's just a question of which provider gives them the best deal.

The advantage of Laser card for AIB is that they basically own the infrastructure and are not paying to use the brand. However, now that the cards have to carry co-branding, that advantage is gone really.

The European Commission requires that all cards are usable, at least physically, and ultimately online, across Europe under the SEPA (Single European Payment Area) initiative. That's the main reason that the banks in the Eurozone are all ditching their national debit card systems in favour of the likes of Visa and MasterCard debit.

SEPA also mandated things like EMV (Chip and PIN) technology. Some countries are only barely meeting that deadline / are actually late e.g. Spain and *Germany* are still not fully chip and PIN ready even though the deadline was supposed to be 2010.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area

godtabh

Just annoninced on Breakingnews.ie

Looking forward to this. Second half of 2012 apperantley.

Link

chasm

Was just reading about it here,

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0718/breaking26.html

God bless AIB, they'll never win any prizes for being market leaders will they!

NuMarvel

VISA Debit and contactless, nice one!

Small correction to your post godtabh, the cards are expected in the second half of 2012, not the first.

dotsman

chasm wrote: »

Was just reading about it here,

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0718/breaking26.html

God bless AIB, they'll never win any prizes for being market leaders will they!

Um, they've pretty much always been market leaders when it comes to technological services. Also, the main issue here is that they are offering Smart cards. Along with BOI, they are the only banks in Ireland offering this service.

I don't think I'd feel comfortable using a debit card online. Will probably stick with my MasterCard for that.

unclebill98

UB have been testing contactless cards for well over a year.

Retailer buy in is the biggest issue. There aimed mainly at garages etc because of the small limit. So handy for your lunch etc.

dotsman

unclebill98 wrote: »

UB have been testing contactless cards for well over a year.

Retailer buy in is the biggest issue. There aimed mainly at garages etc because of the small limit. So handy for your lunch etc.

In ROI? I've never heard or seen anyone use it. I know one of the banks (possibly UB) have trialled it in their HQ, but I've never seen it out in "the every day world" so to speak.

Karsini wrote: »

I don't think I'd feel comfortable using a debit card online. Will probably stick with my MasterCard for that.

Yes, if you have a credit card, it is better to use it online than a debit. That's why I've never been bothered about Visa Debit (had it years ago when lived in the states, but never used it, as I had a credit card as well).

Wheety

I guess this means the end of Laser Card. Sad to see another company going. Are they Irish? Their website just says Irish based. Still, more jobs gone.

It says on their website that they have 2.6m cards in circulation. AIB have 1.4m of those and I reckon BOI could easily make up the rest.

TiGeR KiNgS

Laser is a crap service to be honest. This should of been done years ago, pre- bust era.

shubj

I feel like opening an account with Ulster Bank and not bothering with AIB anymore. We've been left waiting ages for the Visa Debit card. I've been using 3v in the meantime paying stupid top up fees amongst other problems with it.

Why are us AIB customers the last ones to be able to use this?

I am just going to ask AIB this now!

NuMarvel

AIB to introduce VISA Debit, from 2nd half of 2012.

AIB is planning to ditch the familiar Laser and Maestro card, replacing it with the Visa debit card from next year.

The bank announced the plans this morning, saying it would replace the debit cards in the second half of 2012.

The move will pave the way for the lender to introduce contactless payments for small transactions, which will allow Visa Debit holders to pay for purchases of €15 or under by holding their card over a reader at certain retail outlets.

There are additional security features in the new card that help prevent it from being used by unauthorised people. The card can only be used a certain number of times or for a certain value before a PIN is required.

AIB currently has about 1.4 million debit cards in circulation.

Earlier this month, Bank of Ireland said it planned to issue contactless Visa debit cards to its customers later this year. More than 20 million of the contactless debit cards are already being used in Europe.

(Other thread here, thanks for the heads up godtabh)

bk

dotsman wrote: »

In ROI? I've never heard or seen anyone use it. I know one of the banks (possibly UB) have trialled it in their HQ, but I've never seen it out in "the every day world" so to speak.

I've seen the contactless pad on chip and pin machines in some shops. AIB have been rolling these out over the past year. Haven't seen any been used, but they are certainly preparing for them.

The contactless pad looks like what you see next to the drivers on dublin bus.

bk

So it looks like Visa won out big time over Mastercard in the Irish Market.

AIB, BOI and Ulster Bank all gone or will go with visa debit.

shubj

Hehe thanks. They also sent me this reply but I'm sorry but I am not hanging around using 3v until 2012. That is taking the mick...

Thank you for your mail. We announced yesterday that we have decided to switch to the Visa debit card system. This will be rolled out in 2012 along the same time lines as the other main bank, Bank of Ireland. Ulster Bank have had the visa debit system for some time however, we were in a contract with Laser.

All AIB customers will automatically be transferred over and will receive their new Visa debit card in 2012,we're hoping early second half of 2012.


If I can be of any further assistance please contact me.

sitstill

shubj wrote: »

This will be rolled out in 2012 along the same time lines as the other main bank, Bank of Ireland.

Does this mean that BOI is not issuing them till the same time as AIB in 2012?

dotsman

bk wrote: »

I've seen the contactless pad on chip and pin machines in some shops. AIB have been rolling these out over the past year. Haven't seen any been used, but they are certainly preparing for them.

The contactless pad looks like what you see next to the drivers on dublin bus.

Oh, I knew AIB had already started rolling out the contactless POS terminals. It's just I'm not aware of anybody using them yet (for payments, I have heard that there are certain gift cards using them)

dotsman

TiGeR KiNgS wrote: »

Laser is a crap service to be honest. This should of been done years ago, pre- bust era.

No it shouldn't. Laser/maestro is the exact same service. The only difference is that the big boys (Visa/Mastercard) have, over the past few years, been eating up the competition, and will soon have a duopoly in place on the debit card market to compliment their duopoly in the credit card market.

The advantage of the duopoly? A common format (thus acceptance) globally).

The disadvantage? Expensive. Expect to see increased charges in years to come when retailers/customers have no choice.

Wheety wrote: »

I guess this means the end of Laser Card. Sad to see another company going. Are they Irish? Their website just says Irish based. Still, more jobs gone.

It says on their website that they have 2.6m cards in circulation. AIB have 1.4m of those and I reckon BOI could easily make up the rest.

Yes it is sad. Unfortunately, as seen on this thread, and so many others, people prefer global corporations to Irish companies. Someone once said "to be Irish is to hate being Irish".

Halo Kitty

I have a MBNA visa card and a TSB visa debit card....i am thinking of cancelling my MBNA card as i pay €30 tax a yr on a card i rarely use now......Am i right to think about cancelling this card...or should i keep it ....thanks for any pending advice....

Linoge

dotsman wrote: »

Yes it is sad. Unfortunately, as seen on this thread, and so many others, people prefer global corporations to Irish companies. Someone once said "to be Irish is to hate being Irish".

To be fair - Laser can only be used in Ireland, can only be used on a handful of (mainly Irish) websites and they havent kept up with the technology that the other debit cards have. Not even close.

beertons

And the Maestro cards?

bk

dotsman wrote: »

Laser/maestro is the exact same service.

Actually, no they are not. Laser was setup by a partnership of Irish banks and only works in Ireland. The EU then introduced legislation saying that ATM cards had to work across Europe, so the Irish banks had to add Maestro to their Laser cards so they could work across Europe.

Maestro and Laser are actually separate services on the same card. Laser works in Ireland only, Maestro outside Ireland.

This meant that the Irish banks were paying for two services, both Laser and Maestro, so it makes sense for them to pay for just one service (Visa Debit) instead.

dotsman

Linoge wrote: »

To be fair - Laser can only be used in Ireland, can only be used on a handful of (mainly Irish) websites and they havent kept up with the technology that the other debit cards have. Not even close.

bk wrote: »

Actually, no they are not. Laser was setup by a partnership of Irish banks and only works in Ireland. The EU then introduced legislation saying that ATM cards had to work across Europe, so the Irish banks had to add Maestro to their Laser cards so they could work across Europe.

Maestro and Laser are actually separate services on the same card. Laser works in Ireland only, Maestro outside Ireland.

This meant that the Irish banks were paying for two services, both Laser and Maestro, so it makes sense for them to pay for just one service (Visa Debit) instead.

I agree Laser can only be used in Ireland, and Maestro (to a degree) abroad. But they are still a "debit card service". I'm not quite sure what you mean by "kept up with the technology". They function the same (as far as a customer is concerned).

What seems to be the issue most people get confused about is acceptance. It's a bit like other format wars (betamax vs vhs, HD-DVD vs bluray etc). They were all essentially the same thing, but as one format becomes largely accepted, the other format disappears, and this is what is happening now. It has become clear that the Visa/Mastercard Debit duoploy has won (due to global acceptance), so the individual national debit cards are all disappearing. Had the world decided to accept laser/maestro (unlikely, I know:)), and everybody used laser/maestro, the few people with Visa Debit cards would be complaining that Laser/Maestro was "better" or "more advanced". The cards are, more or less, the same. It's just that Visa/Mastercard Debit won the "debit card format war".

Not sure what the pricing difference for the banks were, but for customers/retailers they are initially the same, but with a chance that they may increase once the duopoly domination is complete.

Laser/Maestro also had the problem of the UK Switch cards. Despite Switch cards being labelled as Maestro cards in recent years, international Maestro cards would be declined on Switch terminals in the UK. It happened to me once before.

Conor30

Have to wait till 2012 for this. Better to open a PERMTSB a/c or an Ulster bank one.

TheMilkyPirate

Second half of 2012, Sod off. Waiting long enough, Will be making the switch to Permanent TSB.

dublin daz

Permanent TSB charge 12 euro per quarter, whereas Ulster Bank do not charge any fees.

dublin daz

Its surprising Maestro are not replaced with MasterCard Debit. MasterCard operate the Maestro scheme so I dont see why they need two brands.

Solair

The main reasons for changing over to Visa Debit are quite simple.

1) It gives full, international and online usability to the banks' debit cards. They can be used anywhere Visa credit/debit is accepted. That is a major selling point, particularly as people start to ditch credit cards. Where the retailer has a Visa Debit setup, they can accept it as Visa Debit at a flat per tx fee, similar to Laser's terms and conditions. Where they don't have this setup, it's accepted as Visa Credit and a % fee applies as per a credit card. So, within Ireland, retailers will generally all be able to accept these as actual debit cards.

2) It means that the system is using the latest technology from Visa, rather than a home-brew solution which requires IT experts, security experts and all sorts of consultants to be hired-in by IPSO (Irish Payments Services Organisation) to maintain and develop Laser as a stand-alone platform.

3) Ever more hostile security environment - The banks need to keep these cards up-to-date with the latest technology for security and also have the latest security systems on their transaction networks. That's probably best done by using an international solution from a major card issuer, rather than trying to do it yourself on a small scale. Visa comes with various security innovations that can be easily implemented by the bank e.g. 3D Secure which can be quite sophisticated if the banks decide to use it to its full extent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-D_Secure

Laser is horribly insecure online. It just has a card number + exp date!! It doesn't even have CCV codes on the signature strip rolled out yet!

4) Bring new technology to market rapidly. There's no way that the Irish banks are likely to develop their own contactless technologies or new innovations for payment systems. They are just too small scale.
The latest developments like PayWave can be rolled out on a major international brand like Visa very easily.

It's a bit like having GSM phones as opposed to a home-brew mobile system developed by Telecom Eireann in-house!

Many of the UK banks ditched Switch/Maestro in favor of Visa Debit too.

As for MasterCard debit, perhaps Visa just offered a better deal?

Ladjacket

Has anyone heard anymore on this?

Also, Visa Debit cards would be accepted anywhere that Visa is accepted - is that correct?

And finally, can customers request them earlier or is it a case where they will all be given out at one particular time?