No escaping Tolls now

Ash.J.Williams

they need consultants to tell them where to put the tolls.....

Zonda999

This is a bad decision by the government. I'd be fairly sure this will push our road death statistics up a bit. As far as i can see, a lot of our progress in that area has been as a result of better roads. This will only push people onto worse roads. And i cant believe they mention the n20 Cork - Mallow road. That road is in awful condition! Tolling it just beggers belief! Build a motorway linking Cork and Limerick, and then toll that!

By the way, i dont think anyone(not from Waterford or Kilkenny) would disagree with tolling the M9. Being able to get from Waterford to Dublin there without a toll is really rubbing it in to people travelling from Cork to Dublin

Fr Tod Umptious

The article reads like typical hype from the Indo.

The Tuam bypass is years from being started nevermind being tolled.

Fair enough they may start to toll more M roads but I will see it when I believe it about the N roads.

Raskolnikov

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The article reads like typical hype from the Indo.

It's not hype at all. The NRA have already put out a tender for consultants and companies to operate the new toll routes.

godtabh

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The article reads like typical hype from the Indo.

The Tuam bypass is years from being started nevermind being tolled.

Fair enough they may start to toll more M roads but I will see it when I believe it about the N roads.

There will be a serious push to toll all the M50 in the next 12 months. From there the rest of the country will get it

Quazzie

Raskolnikov wrote: »

True, but as has been pointed out many times here before, if you were to put motor tax on fuel, you'd be talking about €0.20 a litre, if you're putting tolls on top of that, you're going to add another €0.05-0.10 a litre. You're still getting shafted.

Paying €1.75 a litre for me would be a lot more benefitial than paying the tax we currently pay, plus I like many others rarely if ever use the Motorways so its a good system to bring the likes of me into out tax system.

Tea drinker

Sounds totally ridiculous. This will cost far too much. Obviously the idea is to increase the fuel costs later separately, and as they already mentioned drop in tax that will need to go up too.
But even if nothing is changing on the other issues, this tolling will add to journey times and increase costs for business at a time when we should be doing the opposite. Now is when we should be increasing our efficiency, when we use the low costs to drive infra projects and keep some emplyment going, and recoup the benefits of the infra.
Instead we childishly repeat the tolling excercise... hey it worked before!

This is insanity and WILL drive some business to the wall. Christ they will do literally anything part from look at their own fat paychecks and those of their cronies.
We really need to oppose this at EVERY level. here is an opportunity, from the NRA website:

Why are Toll charges imposed?

The National Roads Authority is empowered by the Local Government (Toll Roads) Act, 1979 to charge and collect tolls for the use of certain roads by vehicles. Before a toll may be imposed on a road, a bye-law under the Act must be passed

Whose collar must be felt in order to get this stopped?

Itsdacraic

godtabh wrote: »

There will be a serious push to toll all the M50 in the next 12 months. From there the rest of the country will get it

I have no problems with tolls as long as they don't affect me on a regular basis

Tea drinker

Itsdacraic wrote: »

I have no problems with tolls as long as they don't affect me on a regular basis

You have to fight this insanity, business closure and more on the dole will affect you

seamus

Quazzie wrote: »

Paying €1.75 a litre for me would be a lot more benefitial than paying the tax we currently pay, plus I like many others rarely if ever use the Motorways so its a good system to bring the likes of me into out tax system.

I'll be perfectly honest here. I would happily pay an extra 50c per litre on my petrol if motor tax was abolished. Tax on fuel is an ongoing cost that's easier to bear than a single upfront payment once or twice a year. It would also free up huge amounts of resources as we no longer need to check people for valid tax and organise reminder notices, "off-the-road" declarations and all that nonsense.

Whose collar must be felt in order to get this stopped?

As a governmental agency, the NRA has the power to pass its own bye-laws, though all such bye-laws would have to approved by the board. They also have to be effectively approved by Fachtna Murphy.
I also imagine that where the Minister for Transport decides that something is going to happen, the board enacts it. So in reality, the only person who can be pressurised here is the Minister.

godtabh

Itsdacraic wrote: »

I have no problems with tolls as long as they don't affect me on a regular basis

as long as it doesn't affect you were are grand so.

Tea drinker

I thought it would be a local by law? Would it not have to be passed by local council?

godtabh

seamus wrote: »

I'll be perfectly honest here. I would happily pay an extra 50c per litre on my petrol if motor tax was abolished. Tax on fuel is an ongoing cost that's easier to bear than a single upfront payment once or twice a year. It would also free up huge amounts of resources as we no longer need to check people for valid tax and organise reminder notices, "off-the-road" declarations and all that nonsense.
As a governmental agency, the NRA has the power to pass its own bye-laws, though all such bye-laws would have to approved by the board. They also have to be effectively approved by Fachtna Murphy.
I also imagine that where the Minister for Transport decides that something is going to happen, the board enacts it. So in reality, the only person who can be pressurised here is the Minister.

Why does he have a say?

Guy:Incognito

People are still getting all outraged at this? This is at least the 3rd time the very same story has been pritned over the last year alone. The papers seem to just dig it out evey so often, change the date, reprint and hey presto, the country is riled up.

MugMugs wrote: »

Agreed however the French dont have Road Tax.

Either do we.:)

Tea drinker

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

People are still getting all outraged at this? This is at least the 3rd time the very same story has been pritned over the last year alone. The papers seem to just dig it out evey so often, change the date, reprint and hey presto, the country is riled up.

All aboard the rage bus AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!

I'll have to start charging ye if this keeps up, it's not cheap running a rage bus... tolls n stuff ;-)

seamus

godtabh wrote: »

Why does he have a say?

The law requires that the NRA holds a consultation with the Garda Commissioner before they enact a bye-law. He doesn't actually get a say specifically, but I can't see them going ahead without his approval.
I imagine the law includes the Gardai since they can highlight any traffic management or public safety concerns that might arise from traffic diverting to avoid the tolls.

voxpop

Time to switch from 4 wheels to 2 - bikes are still toll exempt arent they

Guy:Incognito

pixiebean22 wrote: »

What do we pay our motor tax for then? I was under the impression that the motor tax was revenue to pay for better and upgraded roads. Who is this toll money going to?

For this:

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

Your motor tax goes into a "ring fenced" fund to provide our local authorities with their funding to spend on local services. It doesn't pay for the upkeep of the roads despite popular belief.

steve9859 wrote: »

there wouldnt be a motorway if it wasnt for the bridge!

Your right, there'd be 2 motorways

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Lads, our motor tax money goes straight into the governments current account. It's not ring fenced for anything.

It goes to the LOCAL governments accounts.

Its a big diference.

EPM

voxpop wrote: »

Time to switch from 4 wheels to 2 - bikes are still toll exempt arent they

Don't think so. Pretty sure there's a bike symbol on the toll bridges. Lower rate though.

godtabh

seamus wrote: »

The law requires that the NRA holds a consultation with the Garda Commissioner before they enact a bye-law. He doesn't actually get a say specifically, but I can't see them going ahead without his approval.
I imagine the law includes the Gardai since they can highlight any traffic management or public safety concerns that might arise from traffic diverting to avoid the tolls.

Ah right. He isnt the Commissioner any more

RobAMerc

Crazy Horse 6 wrote: »

Won't happen. Irish people don't do protests in the proper way.

Sadly I agree - but we have a forum here to organise it ( better than most protesters have ) and all we would have to do is get in your car and do a go slow down the M50 - cause a bit of a stir and your done.
You are right though - we'll probably just bitch about it on here bend over and take it as usual.

Manach

I'm a rail/bus commuter, and I find these new tolls OTT given the various taxes that the average motorist have to pay already.

celticbest

Everyone please contact Leo Varadkar - Minister for Transport & let him know of your displeasure at these proposals.

Contact Details for Leo Varadkar : http://www.leovaradkar.ie/?page_id=4

I've sent him the following & if everyone does the same he will know the Public are serious,

Dear Minister,

If more tolls are introduced I will do everything in my power to get sacked from my job so I can collect the Dole from day one, it would no longer be worth my while working anymore.

I already pay nearly €1,000 a year in tolls, my petrol costs have gone up by more than 50% in the last 5 years (of which a fifth of the cost is tax) & my net pay has gone down because of increases in pension & Tax payments.

Please for once use common sense in your dealings with the public and do not introduce these proposed new tolls.

Rgds

Master and commander

helimachoptor wrote: »

It's motor tax

:mad: Awww! here we go again with the motor tax / road tax flame fight. I swear i come across this thing about 5 times every day. When are people going to quit being so pendantic anout whether its road or motor tax. Who cares? We all know what the poster means - that tax you pay to get a tax disc in yer windscreen.

This gets 3 frowny faces - :mad::mad::mad:

celticbest

EPM wrote: »

Don't think so. Pretty sure there's a bike symbol on the toll bridges. Lower rate though.

Free on the M50.

http://www.eflow.ie/tolls/

Scholesy1981

We can give out and moan about this all we like but its not gonna change diddly squat. Yet another silly decision. So its onto the possible plan B's and where we go from here.....
This is gonna result in more people using secondary and regional roads more often, road death fatalities may rise, and with the poor unfortunate below target takings from the tolls our highly efficient government will come up with another bit of genius to get us drivers another way, most likely, fuel or motor tax hikes.

For me personally I have to commute 15 miles to get to work every day, once a week I cycle but im thinking now that me bike is gonna be clocking up even more mileage!

We managed for long enough without motorways, got used to them in recent years, but it may be time to bite the bullet and rewind.

-Chris-

celticbest wrote: »

Everyone please contact Leo Varadkar - Minister for Transport & let him know of your displeasure at these proposals.

Contact Details for Leo Varadkar : http://www.leovaradkar.ie/?page_id=4

I've sent him the following & if everyone does the same he will know the Public are serious,

I may or may not agree with the the new tolling proposals, but I'm sure as hell not emailing him that email!!:eek::eek:

Crazy

Guy:Incognito

Master and commander wrote: »

Who cares? We all know what the poster means - that tax you pay to get a tax disc in yer windscreen.
:

How is it pedantic? and posters clearly dont know what they mean because things like "why do we pay raod tax" come up in road related threads. So people clearly think they are paying "road tax" that goes straight to building and maintaning roads.

Guy:Incognito

-Chris- wrote: »

I may or may not agree with the the new tolling proposals, but I'm sure as hell not emailing him that email!!:eek::eek:

Crazy

I'm going to email him and say I'm free to take any job he hears about thats available.:)

MugMugs

Scholesy1981 wrote: »

We managed for long enough without motorways, got used to them in recent years, but it may be time to bite the bullet and rewind.

That was before we were sold the Celtic Tiger dream and people were forced from cities if they wanted to buy a house on the un burstable bubble.

People were pushed out of Dublin as far as Cavan, Laois, Offaly even Leitrim in one case I know.

It's all well and good saying we got away with it for so long but look at the bigger picture here.

PTSB are pushing variable rates up to 6% (you cant get a fixed rate anymore)

Diesel has gone sky high.

People are earning less and in some cases not at all and all complimented by a weak enough public transport system (if not quite expensive too)

And to add to the pain of all the other stealth charges are Tolls on roads that WE as a nation have already paid for.

It's unjust and unfair to say that you just have to deal with it..... Some people cannot afford to deal with it.

celticbest

-Chris- wrote: »

I may or may not agree with the the new tolling proposals, but I'm sure as hell not emailing him that email!!:eek::eek:

Crazy

:eek: How , if you earn less then it takes to cover your living costs then why do it ? Simple economics......

-Chris-

I might email Leo and ask him to put up the tolls, attaching my brother's CV. Maybe Leo can help get my bro into Celticbest's job

-Chris-

celticbest wrote: »

:eek: How , if you earn less then it takes to cover your living costs then why do it ? Simple economics......

And your solution is to do "everything in your power" to get sacked?

Magic Beans

celticbest wrote:

my petrol costs have gone up by more than 50% in the last 5 years (of which a fifth of the cost is tax)

A fifth? Don't make me laugh. The tax take on petrol is between 65% and 70% according to figures by the AA.

celticbest

-Chris- wrote: »

And your solution is to do "everything in your power" to get sacked?

Yes, if I leave my job I would have to wait 6 weeks before being entitled to the dole, however if you are sacked/let go you can collect it after three days of unemployment.

I've been in my job for more than 8 years & over the past 3 years my take home pay has reduced to 2006 levels.

As I said before why work for less then the cost of living?

If I wasn't working I could sell my car, I would not have a weekly fuel bill, Motor Tax, Insurance & maintenance of my car.

Costs savings, €2,400 fuel + €1,000 tolls + €3,600 car loan + €600 Insurance + €150 Tax + €500 Maintenance per annum.

Total Per Annum = €8,250

The purpose of working to to make money - isn't it ???

maggy_thatcher

Maybe it's Fine-Gael's attempt at population control:

1. Discourage people from using the safest roads on our network
2. Inevitable collisions either with pedestrians or other cars occur
3. People die -- meaning the countries infrastructure doesn't have to manage as much
4. Given that older cars are less safe than newer cars, the poorer people are more likely to be killed, so overall the countries average wealth goes up

Of course, that's possibly a little extreme - but the fact is that discouraging people from using the safer roads is only going to make things more dangerous for everybody.

seamus

celticbest wrote: »

:eek: How , if you earn less then it takes to cover your living costs then why do it ? Simple economics......

Or you could, you know, drop your living costs?

Magic Beans

Celticbest is right, that's how the system works. A bit like the last election where a lot of sitting TD's retired instead of taking a beating at the polls. The pension is bigger if you retire.

Play the system, they do.

celticbest

seamus wrote: »

Or you could, you know, drop your living costs?

Please show me how, at the moment I have none to cut.......

-Chris-

celticbest wrote: »

Yes, if I leave my job I would have to wait 6 weeks before being entitled to the dole, however if you are sacked/let go you can collect it after three days of unemployment.

You do realise that someday this recession will end, unemployment will begin to drop as people become employed and taken off the dole, and when you do go looking for a new job the fact that you were sacked from your last job before relaxing on the dole for a few years will put you in the "big risk" category from the new employer's perspective.

I don't think it's as simple as "I'd have more money if I was on the dole" - being on the dole is depressing, and being voluntarily on the dole increases your likelihood of being one of the last ones to get off it.

Del2005

Itsdacraic wrote: »

I have no problems with tolls as long as they don't affect me on a regular basis

First they came for the M50,
and I didn't speak out because I don't use the M50.

Then they came for the other motorways,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't using other motorways.

Then they came for the N roads,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't an N road user

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

voxpop wrote: »

Time to switch from 4 wheels to 2 - bikes are still toll exempt arent they

Only free on the M50 and East Link, but since they've installed rear facing cameras on the M50 I can see bikes getting hit soon.

You also have the fun of trying to find money with motorbike gloves on.

seamus

celticbest wrote: »

Please show me how, at the moment I have none to cut.......

I'm not a financial advisor

But if you were to take (for example) 4km off your commute and walk the balance (about 30 minutes walking), that would be a saving of 40km/week or 2,000 per year. At 8l per 100km, you'll save about €240 in petrol costs per year (10% of your figure above), and get an hour's exercise per day into the bargain.

Or you could do as I've seen others do and carry a bike with you on a rack. Cycle the last 6km of your commute in 15/20 minutes and save yourself €360/year in petrol. Small amounts, but it all adds up.

Mister Jingles

ronan45 wrote: »

If this goes ahead Im mobilising my ****.


(dusts off airsoft rifle and grins menacingly)

Better hope someone from the airsoft forum doesn't see that, yea know how protective of their sport they are over there. :rolleyes:

busyliving

Lads at this stage its not viable to own a car is it?

Petrol is sky high, road tax is against the law apparently(according to the EU), Insurance is beyond a joke...and how tolling these roads...

Fcuking joke if you ask me, how many people in the HSE who aren't needed or in any other number of public sector positions...

I don't know why we just don't default, stick up our middle finger to the rest of Europe and start from scratch...even the treat of doing this should scare the ****e outta europe

Guy:Incognito

busyliving wrote: »

road tax is against the law apparently(according to the EU),

What?
Are you confusing road tax (we have motor tax here) with VRT? Which is also not against the law BTW.

busyliving wrote: »

I don't know why we just don't default, stick up our middle finger to the rest of Europe and start from scratch...even the treat of doing this should scare the ****e outta europe

Ah yes, Utopia. Where we just maically start again tomorrow and everything is fine.

Forget all the rabble rousing about banks and bailouts. The country costs something like 15-20B more to run than we take in in tax. So unless we stop spending up to 20B that we are spending every year then I fail to see where you "everything will be grand" idea is going to work.

But sure dont min dme, its only economics, who needs that.

kenmc

-Chris- wrote: »

You do realise that someday this recession will end, unemployment will begin to drop as people become employed and taken off the dole...

you reckon? wouldn't count on it. country is grinding to a halt minute by minute never mind month by month.

busyliving

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

What?
Are you confusing road tax (we have motor tax here) with VRT? Which is also not against the law BTW.

According to some EU directive the way we are charged with road tax was against this piece of EU law which we agreed to adhear to...Maybe they found a loophole, i remember hearing about this about on the news a while back now

Ah yes, Utopia. Where we just maically start again tomorrow and everythign is fine.

Forget all the rabble rousign about banks and bailouts. The country costs something like 15-20B more to run than we take in in tax. So unless we stop spending up to 20B that we are spending every year then I fail to see where you "everythign will be grand" idea is going to work.

I know it costs a lot to run, but how much are we paying back in interest to the IMF/EU/Britain...

If we treated to default i reckon our interest on this loans with very lowered or else they face losing everything...but we are going off topic here...sorry OP

-Chris-

kenmc wrote: »

you reckon? wouldn't count on it. country is grinding to a halt minute by minute never mind month by month.

It has before and it will again. You can't have boom without bust.

And it's not a realistic life plan to decide "we're never coming out of recession, so I'm going on the dole forever". You have to presume there'll be an upturn (imho)

busyliving

busyliving wrote: »

Lads at this stage its not viable to own a car is it?...........

I spend .......

€1000 on tax
€300 on insurance
€60 to €80 week on petrol
€1000/annum on maintenance, tyres etc

It's very viable for me tbh, I rarely if ever get a taxi, no decent public transport option to where I work most days and a few times a month I require the car to travel to Galway or Dublin or elsewhere for work.

At least with a car you get something for your money, the likes of the universal social charge is taxing us for other people's rank stupidity.

-Chris- wrote: »

It has before and it will again. You can't have boom without bust.



And it's not a realistic life plan to decide "we're never coming out of recession, so I'm going on the dole forever". You have to presume there'll be an upturn (imho)

Very true, much of the population (Bertie Ahern included me thinks) reckoned the boom would never end, now much of the population reckons the recession will never end.

celticbest

-Chris- wrote: »

You do realise that someday this recession will end, unemployment will begin to drop as people become employed and taken off the dole, and when you do go looking for a new job the fact that you were sacked from your last job before relaxing on the dole for a few years will put you in the "big risk" category from the new employer's perspective.

I don't think it's as simple as "I'd have more money if I was on the dole" - being on the dole is depressing, and being voluntarily on the dole increases your likelihood of being one of the last ones to get off it.

Chris, I want to provide for my family the best I can.

If I'm making a loss working compared to the benefits I could collect on the Dole then who in there right mind would continue working? I like my job and as I said before I'm in it for more than eight years.

At the moment it is still worth my while to work but if more and more is taking off me in direct & indirect taxes & it is not worth my while to work then I won't, simple as....

The Government seem to think adding more Tolls is a quick fix to collecting more revenue, however IMHO it will push more people over the Financial edge and they will lose out in the long run.