Clampers in Oakleigh Wood, Dooradoyle.

Melion

ShatterProof wrote: »

link ????

Straight from the clampers mouth last week while i was sitting in his living room. That good enough?

bigpink

Melion wrote: »

I was really thinking about it Mark but i know he is having a fairly shít day and could probably do without me asking that.

If the OP wants to send me on the reg and make of his car i can ring and find out if all this is true.

Ah poor tough guy clamper who abuses people having a bad day the poor thing

Grumpypants

Melion wrote: »

I was really thinking about it Mark but i know he is having a fairly shít day and could probably do without me asking that.

If the OP wants to send me on the reg and make of his car i can ring and find out if all this is true.

I can understand the clampers side of things if the permit had fallen down completely, but at the same time he should have the decency to look at the permit the car owner has and remove it if its in date.

This case is worse since the permit was stuck to the windshield.

Insect Overlord

seachto7 wrote: »

To be honest Mod, this thread is crying out for "illegal activity" posts, so I think you should just lock it......

I'll give it another while yet. It's only been re-opened for less than 2 hours. And to be fair, Melion's giving the OP some decent advice.

mkegvn

Melion, Thanks for your help. It's a 99LK Peugeot 206. I'm not expecting any comeback on this but I do appreciate it. It'll just be my word against his I reckon. I'm just a little annoyed over the whole thing. There has been a few incidents around here with him/or the company before.

By the way, I'm didn't mention anything about the way he spoke to my girlfriend on the phone this morning. That's another story. She lost a days work and wages over this.

Lads I completely disagree with cutting any cutting off of clamps etc. so stop spoiling the thread.

Tefral

I dont condone illegal activity, so cutting it off is criminal damage.

However if it is a non chain type clamp, and just the one with the hook over the wheel, leave the air out of your tyre and you will have enough space to lever it off without damaging the clamp. You may need to jack the car up also to get a bit of space.

There is nothing illegal about removing a clamp unless its a council one so long as you do it without damaging the clamp.

Kess73

So the OP had paid for the right to park where he did.

Is in a position to be able to prove that the permit was in fact paid for and up to date at the time of clamping.


So basically the clamper is not willing to check to see that the OP is legally entitled to park where he did, and is trying to get the OP to pay a fine fo4 parking in a spot he has already paid to park?


Sounds like the clamper has no interest in taking the commonsense approach to be honest. Maybe the permit was a bit hard to see, but one would imagine that once the OP could prove that the permit was valid and fully up to date, then the clamp should be taken off.

I would not touch the clamp in any way. Just take pictures of it, and then go to the gardai with proof that your permit to park in that area is up to date. He has clamped the private property of someone who has paid to legally park there and has prevented you from using your car and refused to check that you indeed have a permit. I would also seek proper legal advise and if you do not wish to go to a solicitor straight away then get in touch with thye Citizen advice centre on Catherine street.

Also make sure you take pics of all around that area of your car as it is now, so that if any damage gets done in the takiong off of the clamp he is responsible as well.

Also take a record of any abusive language he has used against you or your girlfriend or if he was aggressive or threatening in any way and make sure that goes on record with the gardai as well.

If it is the guy I see in the area on a regular basis, then a visit from the gardai or getting a letter from a solicitor would do him no harm. Would not say this about many people but his lack of manners and attitude would make him one person I would not be sorry to see on the dole.

Tefral

Melion wrote: »

Gets charged for what exactly?

You are aware if this was to be pursued in courts in all likely hood the OP would be proved in the right. Its against the law to "interfere" with a mechanically propelled vehicle that doesnt belong to you.

Melion

Kess73 wrote: »

If it is the guy I see in the area on a regular basis, then a visit from the gardai or getting a letter from a solicitor would do him no harm. Would not say this about many people but his lack of manners and attitude would make him one person I would not be sorry to see on the dole.

The guards will say what to him exactly?

osarusan

Does anybody know what the law on this actually is? Clampers are hired to try and ensure the only people who park in any given place are those entitled to park there.

From reading this thread, it seems that the clamper was aware that the OP poster had a right to park there (or would have been, had any effort been made to check), but is taking advantage of the technicality that the permit wasn't 'completely visible'.

If the OP poster is sure this is the case (and ideally has photographs displaying the permit and the extent to which its validity was evident to anybody looking at it) I'd say you could try to find out who hired him and present your case to them. They didn't hire a clamper to do the kind of thing that seems to have been done here. And if the property management company didn't hire him, find out who did - it's private land, somebody must have hired him. Even if the clamper won't listen to you, the people who hired him probably will.

Tefral

osarusan wrote: »

Does anybody know what the law on this actually is? Clampers are hired to try and ensure the only people who park in any given place are those entitled to park there.

From reading this thread, it seems that the clamper was aware that the OP poster had a right to park there, but is taking advantage of the technicality that the permit wasn't 'completely visible'.

If the OP poster is sure this is the case (and ideally has photographs displaying the permit and the extent to which its validity was evident to anybody looking at it) I'd say you could try to find out who hired him and present your case to them. They didn't hire a clamper to do the kind of thing that seems to have been done here. And if the property management company didn't hire him, find out who did - it's private land, somebody must have hired him. Even if the clamper won't listen to you, the people who hired him probably will.

Under the Criminal Justice Act (public order) and also the road traffic act:




'public place' means—

( a ) any public road, and

( b ) any street, road or other place to which the public have access with vehicles whether as of right or by permission and whether subject to or free of charge;";
Wilful obstruction
Under Section 9 of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994 anyone without legal authority or reasonable excuse, wilfully prevents or interrupts the free passage of any person or vehicle in any public place shall be guilty of an offence.

This section was created in order to protect the constitutional rights of the individual to go about their business in a public place. While the Gardai have no power of arrest under this Section they can invoke the powers of Section 7 of the Act and direct any person to desist from the obstruction in question. Failure to comply with that direction is an offence.

Unauthorised interference with mechanism of vehicle.
Road Traffic Act, 1933 167.—(1) Every person who, without the consent of the owner or the person in charge of a mechanically propelled vehicle and without other lawful authority or reasonable cause interferes or attempts to interfere in any way with the mechanism of such vehicle while it is stationary in a public place or gets on or into or attempts to get on or into such vehicle while it is so stationary shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding twenty pounds.

"interference with mechanism" Clamping your wheel prevents you driving away

"without the consent" No-one consents to somebody clamping their vehicle.
"lawful authority " may include city , town or county council. but not private clamper in public space.

Then there is the issue of them wanting you to pay the fee and then take it up with their claims departments (note, most clampers operate this in the hope youll never fight it because a sollicitors letter costs at least twice that), so dont pay it because:

Section 17 of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994 - If a person makes an unwarranted demand with menaces for the purpose of making a gain for themselves or another or with the intention to cause a loss to another they will be guilty of this offence. The exception to this offence is that if the person making the demand with menaces believes that:-
- He has reasonable grounds for making the demand,
and
- The use of menaces is a proper means of reinforcing the demand.

Kess73

Melion wrote: »

Gets charged for what exactly?

If there is a permit registered for that vehicle and that permit is fully paid for and in date, and the vehicle is parked in an area specified for that permit, then the vehicle is being held against the owner's wishes in a spot where it is legally entitled to be.

It can be legally clamped until the owner of the vehicle can prove the permit is valid and up to date, or if the vehicle was parked illegally with no permit at all.

A hell of a lot of the "laws" that clampers can produce on a printed sheet have no actual legal bearing.

bigpink

From my mother and grandmother,and being present with my mother when making calls,some of which were on loudspeaker

dont need your smartness "dear old granmother",i think they are 2 very good people

BESman

What is happening in that estate is a bit crazy. They introduced a parking permit system over a year ago without notifying the residents. On its first morning of operation, there were a large number of vehicles clamped. These tenants had not been notified of the new system and had not been provided with permits, sounds fair right?

The clampers are particularly zealous. I know for a fact that one of the clampers does a check every morning at 6am, ensuring that anyone parked over night will be clamped in the morning which is particularly frustrating if you have to be at work in the morning only to discover you have been clamped. (Mid-West Parking Control for anyone who cares to know). Also, the clamper mentioned in this thread is not the only clamper patrolling the estate, despite what has been said. I also received information from a certain poster that the permit system was a method of forcing property management fees from landlords who were not paying. Again, this is completely untrue, no matter whether fees have been paid or not, each property receives one permit, and only one. This has resulted in many unused parking spaces as tenants have not been issued enough permits. They have recently decided to put yellow lines around certain areas in the estate where people had been parking previously due to a lack of permits. This has further restricted the areas in which tenants can park, and surprise surprise, increasing the likelihood of tenants parking in a location where they will be clamped. It would also appear that commercial vehicles are not permitted to park in certain areas in the estate or they will be clamped. This, I assume, is to preserve an aesthetic quality by removing “unsightly” white vans and the like from view. In response to a lack of usable spaces, they have added more non-permit spaces to the entrance area of the estate. This is ridiculous. It has reduced the width of the road on this stretch and is now more dangerous to pass through. Why not just issue more permits???

In response to the OP’s particular situation, assuming you are renting, demand that the fee be taken out of the rent. This has worked for other tenants in the past. Just be forceful and explain the situation and refuse to accept no for an answer. Although its unfair that the landlord be forced to foot the bill for this, its more fair than for the tenant to pay. Its up to the owners in that estate to change this system and if enough of them start losing rent payments, it might change. Do NOT interefere with the clamp or argue with the company, it'll get you nowhere. While he might have an attitude problem, they're employed to do a job. I blame the management company for this as they introduced the system and hired the clamping company. They're Property Management Ireland (PMI) and are located in the estate next to Scott's Bar, call out to them and tell them you're pissed.

Kess73

Melion wrote: »

The guards will say what to him exactly?

Oh they can quote the actual law to him and not some made up laws that clampers often quote.


I see another poster has put up a section of the actual law on this.

Melion

bigpink wrote: »

From my mother and grandmother,and being present with my mother when making calls,some of which were on loudspeaker

dont need your smartness "dear old granmother",i think they are 2 very good people

And i think the clamper is a very good person who i have known for a very long time.

Melion

BESman wrote: »

What is happening in that estate is a bit crazy. They introduced a parking permit system over a year ago without notifying the residents. On its first morning of operation, there were a large number of vehicles clamped. These tenants had not been notified of the new system and had not been provided with permits, sounds fair right?

The clampers are particularly zealous. I know for a fact that one of the clampers does a check every morning at 6am, ensuring that anyone parked over night will be clamped in the morning which is particularly frustrating if you have to be at work in the morning only to discover you have been clamped. (Mid-West Parking Control for anyone who cares to know). Also, the clamper mentioned in this thread is not the only clamper patrolling the estate, despite what has been said. I also received information from a certain poster that the permit system was a method of forcing property management fees from landlords who were not paying. Again, this is completely untrue, no matter whether fees have been paid or not, each property receives one permit, and only one. This has resulted in many unused parking spaces as tenants have not been issued enough permits. They have recently decided to put yellow lines around certain areas in the estate where people had been parking previously due to a lack of permits. This has further restricted the areas in which tenants can park, and surprise surprise, increasing the likelihood of tenants parking in a location where they will be clamped. It would also appear that commercial vehicles are not permitted to park in certain areas in the estate or they will be clamped. This, I assume, is to preserve an aesthetic quality by removing “unsightly” white vans and the like from view. In response to a lack of usable spaces, they have added more non-permit spaces to the entrance area of the estate. This is ridiculous. It has reduced the width of the road on this stretch and is now more dangerous to pass through. Why not just issue more permits???

In response to the OP’s particular situation, assuming you are renting, demand that the fee be taken out of the rent. This has worked for other tenants in the past. Just be forceful and explain the situation and refuse to accept no for an answer. Although its unfair that the landlord be forced to foot the bill for this, its more fair than for the tenant to pay. Its up to the owners in that estate to change this system and if enough of them start losing rent payments, it might change. Do NOT interefere with the clamp or argue with the company, it'll get you nowhere. While he might have an attitude problem, they're employed to do a job. I blame the management company for this as they introduced the system and hired the clamping company. They're Property Management Ireland (PMI) and are located in the estate next to Scott's Bar, call out to them and tell them you're pissed.

This is the most sensible thing posted in this thread.

Ironically enough, i was with the clamper in question on the first morning of the new permit rules.

If the OP is renting the property, then get on to the landlord straight away as they are the people who should have paid their fees and gotten their permits for their tenants.

Insect Overlord

Bigpink,
I've had to remove 6 posts of yours for defamatory content.
Please don't post in this thread again.

bigpink

Ok thats your view,thats my view this guy is a nasty piece of work,this guy well known by people who have had a run in with him

osarusan

Melion wrote: »

If the OP is renting the property, then get on to the landlord straight away as they are the people who should have paid their fees and gotten their permits for their tenants.

Hasn't the OP made it clear that he already has a valid permit for the place he parked?

flutered

clamping is in he eyes of the law a grey area, unless they work for the county council or corpo the you have as many rights possibly more than they have, i have noticed that one poster is really on their side even offering to act as a go between, this seems to be rather unusual, as i have said the ops car has been interfered with has caused people stress and loss of wages, refused an offer of payment at a later date, the op needs to get his act togeather if not he will be walked all over, he could also get a guy with a tow truck to tow it away have the clamp removed, then return it to the clamper intact, with a nice friendly smile on his face, problem solved clamp removed, returned undamaged.

Tefral

flutered wrote: »

clamping is in he eyes of the law a grey area, unless they work for the county council or corpo the you have as many rights possibly more than they have, i have noticed that one poster is really on their side even offering to act as a go between, this seems to be rather unusual, as i have said the ops car has been interfered with has caused people stress and loss of wages, refused an offer of payment at a later date, the op needs to get his act togeather if not he will be walked all over, he could also get a guy with a tow truck to tow it away have the clamp removed, then return it to the clamper intact, with a nice friendly smile on his face, problem solved clamp removed, returned undamaged.

That would surely cost more than the release fee?

Melion

bigpink wrote: »

Ok thats your view,thats my view this guy is a nasty piece of work,this guy well known by people who have had a run in with him

I doubt they know him better than me

Henry Ford III

It seems you little option but to pay OP.

After that I'd photograph everything, particularly the parking permit causing the problem, log any calls and visits you've made trying to sort this, and lodge a claim in the Small Claims Court.

Grumpypants

Melion wrote: »

This is the most sensible thing posted in this thread.

Ironically enough, i was with the clamper in question on the first morning of the new permit rules.

If the OP is renting the property, then get on to the landlord straight away as they are the people who should have paid their fees and gotten their permits for their tenants.

But he did pay for and had his permit, it was stuck to his windscreen.

OP you need to find out who hired this company and tell them to ring him and remove it. Some one has to hire him to come onto private land and clamp. Ring your land lord and ask him too.

bigpink

Sorry Insect this annoys me,i wont post anymore

OP contact the local media,we need to highlight this guy and the issue,dont go cutting it cause that will bring you to his level

Melion

Im just off the phone with the clamper who told me the OP was very abusive over the phone aswell. Its funny how people never mention that.

Kess73

Melion wrote: »

This is the most sensible thing posted in this thread.

Ironically enough, i was with the clamper in question on the first morning of the new permit rules.

If the OP is renting the property, then get on to the landlord straight away as they are the people who should have paid their fees and gotten their permits for their tenants.

Why should the OP do that?

The OP has already said that he has a current permit. He has already said he has contacted both the clamper and the office the clamper is from. And he has stated that they have refused to discuss the issue and told him he has to pay and then hung up.


The OP does not have to waste his time going through his landlord when he already has a current permit in his possession.

By refusing to discuss it, and trying to force the OP to pay a fine on a vehicle that was legally parked, the real law has been broken under the road traffic act and the Criminal justice act.


Does not matter a jot if the clamper is a really nice person in your eyes or if he is a total arsehole in the eyes of others living in the area. The simple fact is that what he and the company he is representing are doing by refusing to discuss the issue and check the permit details is breaking the law.

flutered

cronin_j wrote: »

That would surely cost more than the release fee?

possibly not, inquire about as they have irritated many people, also their chances of winning populatity contests are zilch,
btw melion are you employed by a clamping firm, i am just asking as you are giving the impression that you were with them one morning at 6 am.

Tefral

Kess73 wrote: »

Why should the OP do that?

The OP has already said that he has a current permit. He has already said he has contacted both the clamper and the office the clamper is from. And he has stated that they have refused to discuss the issue and told him he has to pay and then hung up.


The OP does not have to waste his time going through his landlord when he already has a current permit in his possession.

By refusing to discuss it, and trying to force the OP to pay a fine on a vehicle that was legally parked, the real law has been broken under the road traffic act and the Criminal justice act.


Does not matter a jot if the clamper is a really nice person in your eyes or if he is a total arsehole in the eyes of others living in the area. The simple fact is that what he and the company he is representing are doing by refusing to discuss the issue and check the permit details is breaking the law.

Just an aside to this:
To clamp you the clamper must have a sign displayed that reads something like


This means you enter into a contract to get clamped if you park in a way that doesnt match their terms.

So those of you under 18, you are gonna get off scott free as you are under age, under law, you are deemed not to have capacity to enter into a contract, implied or otherwise, so happy days.

For anyone over 18 the Number One GOLDEN RULE about contracts is: A contract is null and void if it is illegal, ie, it wont stand up in court.

So to then youll need to prove that the implied contract you entered into when parking was infact illegal under law using the correct laws I posted in page 3