Clampers in Oakleigh Wood, Dooradoyle.

Melion

flutered wrote: »

possibly not, inquire about as they have irritated many people, also their chances of winning populatity contests are zilch,
btw melion are you employed by a clamping firm, i am just asking as you are giving the impression that you were with them one morning at 6 am.

Nope, not employed by them.
I was giving him a hand that first morning because he knew there would be a backlash from residents.

Kess73

Henry Ford III wrote: »

It seems you little option but to pay OP.

After that I'd photograph everything, particularly the parking permit causing the problem, log any calls and visits you've made trying to sort this, and lodge a claim in the Small Claims Court.

That is pretty much what clamping companies in Ireland want you to do. Most people pay the fine and then don't go through the courts afterwards.


If the OP has a fully paid up and in date permit to park in that spot, then he has done nothing wrong legally.

His car is currently illegally clamped if the permit is valid, and by refusing to check the permit's validity, the clamping firm/clamper are causing the OP to not be able to access his own private property unless he pays them money to remove a clamp that is on a legally clamped vehicle.

bigpink

Cant blame people for getting angry back when its this guy that bullys and abuses from the start when people try to talk to through with him

seachto7

Another person I know got clamped last week. The clamper came out, asked for 100 euro, yer man said he only had 50 on him. The gardai were called and arrived, but could do nothing in reality. I think the clamper was willing to take anything from 50 to 100 euro to take it off. He did write a receipt too, so didn't pocket it or anything, but how can they haggle with someone to take off the clamp. I thought there was a set fee?
To be honest, I know they are only doing a job, but in the OPs case, I have to question the clamper as a person, outside of his job, who would not waiver the fee after finding out the person has a permit to park there....
You can say it's unfair of me to "get personal" about it...

mkegvn

Melion wrote: »

Im just off the phone with the clamper who told me the OP was very abusive over the phone aswell. Its funny how people never mention that.

I was angry and annoyed, not abusive. I would consider angry and abusive very different things. I will admit however, when your pal shoved that piece of paper in my face, I got a bit heated, but I restrained myself. Now this is a game of his word against mine. None the less, I do appreciate the help Melion. If you'd talk to Garry about me I'm sure he'd tell you that I don't have it in me to be abusive.

Tefral

seachto7 wrote: »

Another person I know got clamped last week. The clamper came out, asked for 100 euro, yer man said he only had 50 on him. The gardai were called and arrived, but could do nothing in reality. I think the clamper was willing to take anything from 50 to 100 euro to take it off. He did write a receipt too, so didn't pocket it or anything, but how can they haggle with someone to take off the clamp. I thought there was a set fee?
To be honest, I know they are only doing a job, but in the OPs case, I have to question the clamper as a person, outside of his job, who would not waiver the fee after finding out the person has a permit to park there....
You can say it's unfair of me to "get personal" about it...

Most clampers are commission based, more clamps means more food on the table.

Itsdacraic

So the same fella always patrols the estate?
The OP has been living and I assume parking there for an extended period of time, so you would imagine the car is well known to the clamper?
If the car was legally parked displaying a permit every other day would the clamper not give it the benefit of the doubt that it was indeed parked legally?


Sounds like a very opportunist stunt from the clamper. I certainly wouldn't be giving them a penny.

BESman

Melion wrote: »

This is the most sensible thing posted in this thread.

Ironically enough, i was with the clamper in question on the first morning of the new permit rules.

If the OP is renting the property, then get on to the landlord straight away as they are the people who should have paid their fees and gotten their permits for their tenants.

As I stated in my post, this is not the reason for landlords not receiving permits.

I also think that it must be very frustrating for tenants to have the clamper's friend coming onto a message boards site defending him. He might be very nice outside his profession, but thats kind of irrelevant.

Nonetheless, if you can diffuse the situation, fair play.

Kess73

mkegvn wrote: »

I was angry and annoyed, not abusive. I would consider angry and abusive very different things. I will admit however, when your pal shoved that piece of paper in my face, I got a bit heated, but I restrained myself. Now this is a game of his word against mine. None the less, I do appreciate the help Melion. If you'd talk to Garry about me I'm sure he'd tell you that I don't have it in me to be abusive.

Actually no it is not simply a case of one word against the other.


If your permit is fully paid for and up to date and in the area where the permit says you can park, then the clamp holding your car is now illegally holding your car.

Once you can prove that you are entitled to park where you are parked, and the permit is that proof, then the clamping company are the ones who have to explain why they did not check your permit after you said you had it and why they refused to discuss the issue with you.

Do not pay a cent to get your car removed. Photograph the clamp, your car, and a shot that shows clearly where your car is clamped. Get the gardai out and show them your valid permit which legally entitles you to park where you are parked.

Do not be bullied into paying a fine that is being enforced by a clamp that has no legal grounds for being on a vehicle with a valid permit.

You are the one who cannot use your own private vehicle through others not following the law.

Pictures, legal advice and gardai. Through in local media if you want to highlight the problem if you like as well.

You have broken no laws in what you have done in terms of your parking. Your car is illegally held. It is a pain in the arse to chase things up, but fight your corner in a calm manner and use the law to do so.

I'm sure Melion is doing what he can to help, and he is to be commended for trying to help out both his friend and also a poster, but at the end of the day you are the one being imapcted upon thanks to a company not obeying the law of the land.

mkegvn

Itsdacraic wrote: »

So the same fella always patrols the estate?
The OP has been living and I assume parking there for an extended period of time, so you would imagine the car is well known to the clamper?
If the car was legally parked displaying a permit every other day would the clamper not give it the benefit of the doubt that it was indeed parked legally?


Sounds like a very opportunist stunt from the clamper. I certainly wouldn't be giving them a penny.

Yea he definately knows the car. A lad I live with had a run in with him before and they sorted it out fairly. Problem is it's 120 euro per 24 hours. No ifs or buts.

My girlfriend is just off the phone with the clamper. and is now crying.

Henry Ford III

Kess73 wrote: »

That is pretty much what clamping companies in Ireland want you to do. Most people pay the fine and then don't go through the courts afterwards.


If the OP has a fully paid up and in date permit to park in that spot, then he has done nothing wrong legally.

His car is currently illegally clamped if the permit is valid, and by refusing to check the permit's validity, the clamping firm/clamper are causing the OP to not be able to access his own private property unless he pays them money to remove a clamp that is on a legally clamped vehicle.

I'm not suggesting Op has done anything wrong at all.

What I was suggesting however was a solution to the OP's problem.

p.s. If folk couldn't be bothered going through the Small Claims Court process that's their business. Maybe they are too wealthy to bother?

source

The clamper cannot legally clamp you if you're displaying a permit.

The clamper from my reading of your post is in the wrong, Firstly from a legal standing, Oakleigh Wood, is a public place under the Road Traffic Acts.

“public place” means any street, road or other place to which the public have access with vehicles whether as of right or by permission and whether subject to or free of charge;

Because of this immobilising your vehicle when permitted to park there is an offence under Section 113 Road Traffic Act 1961.

113.—(1) A person shall not, without lawful authority or reasonable cause, interfere or attempt to interfere with the mechanism of a mechanically propelled vehicle while it is stationary in a public place, or get on or into or attempt to get on or into the vehicle while it is so stationary.


(2) A person who contravenes subsection (1) of this section shall be guilty of an offence.


(3) Where a member of the Garda Síochána has reasonable grounds for believing that a person is committing an offence under this section, he may arrest the person without warrant.


(4) This section shall not apply to a person taking, in relation to a mechanically propelled vehicle which is obstructing his lawful ingress or egress to or from any place, such steps as are reasonably necessary to move the vehicle by human propulsion for a distance sufficient to terminate the obstruction.


(5) Where a person is charged with an offence under this section, it shall be a good defence to the charge for him to show that, when he did the act alleged to constitute the offence, he believed, and had reasonable grounds for believing, that he had lawful authority for doing that act.

The defence in outlined in subsection 5, does not stand as he did not have reasonable grounds for believing he had lawful authority for clamping your car.

With relation to abusing and threatening you, Section 6 Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994 applies.

6.—(1) It shall be an offence for any person in a public place to use or engage in any threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour with intent to provoke a breach of the peace or being reckless as to whether a breach of the peace may be occasioned.


(2) A person who is guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £500 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 months or to both.

Contact AGS and inform them you have been illegally clamped, that you are displaying your permit, and that the clamper is refusing to deal with you unless you pay the fee, also include that the clamper was threatening you and abusing you.

With regard to melion's post on someone being prosecuted for removing a clamp, Clamping does not operate within any legal framework, so the person cannot be prosecuted for simply removing the clamp. If the person damaged the clamp they can be prosecuted for criminal damage, and if they did not return the clamp, then they can be prosecuted for theft. But a person cannot be prosecuted for removing a clamp when they do not damage it and return it to the clamping company.

Insect Overlord

bigpink wrote: »

Ok thats your view,thats my view this guy is a nasty piece of work,this guy well known by people who have had a run in with him

bigpink wrote: »

Sorry Insect this annoys me,i wont post anymore

OP contact the local media,we need to highlight this guy and the issue,dont go cutting it cause that will bring you to his level

I warned you before these two posts not to contribute to this thread again, and I still gave you leeway.

bigpink wrote: »

Cant blame people for getting angry back when its this guy that bullys and abuses from the start when people try to talk to through with him

And then you went and posted the same rubbish that you were red-carded for an hour ago. Banned for a week.

Kess73

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I'm not suggesting Op has done anything wrong at all.

What I was suggesting however was a solution to the OP's problem.

p.s. If folk couldn't be bothered going through the Small Claims Court process that's their business. Maybe they are too wealthy to bother?

Why should people be out of pocket to get a clamp removed from a car that was legally parked and then have to go through the court to get back the money?


The obvious thing would be for the clamping company or the clamper to pull their heads from their arses and check the permit, and if the permit is valid, to say sorry and take off the clamp. Bullying a person to pay the fine, and it is bullying as well as totally illegal, when the fine is not valid to start with is totally wrong and shows nothing more than ignorance and greed.

If they don't want to do that and want to illegally restrain a private vehicle which is legally entitled to be where it is, then it is time for the gardai to get involved and for all involved in the clamping process and the refusal to look at the permit to be left open to charges/fines based whatever number of sections of the two acts they have broken.

Tefral

foinse wrote: »

The clamper cannot legally clamp you if you're displaying a permit.

The clamper from my reading of your post is in the wrong, Firstly from a legal standing, Oakleigh Wood, is a public place under the Road Traffic Acts.



Because of this immobilising your vehicle when permitted to park there is an offence under Section 113 Road Traffic Act 1961.



The defence in outlined in subsection 5, does not stand as he did not have reasonable grounds for believing he had lawful authority for clamping your car.

With relation to abusing and threatening you, Section 6 Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994 applies.



Contact AGS and inform them you have been illegally clamped, that you are displaying your permit, and that the clamper is refusing to deal with you unless you pay the fee, also include that the clamper was threatening you and abusing you.

With regard to melion's post on someone being prosecuted for removing a clamp, Clamping does not operate within any legal framework, so the person cannot be prosecuted for simply removing the clamp. If the person damaged the clamp they can be prosecuted for criminal damage, and if they did not return the clamp, then they can be prosecuted for theft. But a person cannot be prosecuted for removing a clamp when they do not damage it and return it to the clamping company.

Heard it from the Horses mouth there.. (Dont mean to actually call you a Horse Foinse ha ha)

Kess73

foinse wrote: »

The clamper cannot legally clamp you if you're displaying a permit.

The clamper from my reading of your post is in the wrong, Firstly from a legal standing, Oakleigh Wood, is a public place under the Road Traffic Acts.



Because of this immobilising your vehicle when permitted to park there is an offence under Section 113 Road Traffic Act 1961.



The defence in outlined in subsection 5, does not stand as he did not have reasonable grounds for believing he had lawful authority for clamping your car.

With relation to abusing and threatening you, Section 6 Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994 applies.



Contact AGS and inform them you have been illegally clamped, that you are displaying your permit, and that the clamper is refusing to deal with you unless you pay the fee, also include that the clamper was threatening you and abusing you.

With regard to melion's post on someone being prosecuted for removing a clamp, Clamping does not operate within any legal framework, so the person cannot be prosecuted for simply removing the clamp. If the person damaged the clamp they can be prosecuted for criminal damage, and if they did not return the clamp, then they can be prosecuted for theft. But a person cannot be prosecuted for removing a clamp when they do not damage it and return it to the clamping company.

Yep those are the Road traffic and Criminal Justice acts that Cronin_j and I mentioned earlier.

Does not matter what the clamper claims is law or what his company claims, those acts overrule any made up clamping laws.

By going against those acts , both the clamper and clamping firm have broken the law of the land and as such may be deemed to be performing illegal activities in this case.

Tefral

Kess73 wrote: »

Yep those are the Road traffic and Criminal Justice acts that Cronin_j and I mentioned earlier.

Does not matter what the clamper claims is law or what his company claims, those acts overrule any made up clamping laws.

By going against those acts , both the clamper and clamping firm have broken the law of the land and as such may be deemed to be performing illegal activities in this case.

You also cant enforce a contract that is illegal, so even if they go down the road of the implied contract through the signs displayed the Contract cannot be enforced under law.

Kess73

cronin_j wrote: »

You also cant enforce a contract that is illegal, so even if they go down the road of the implied contract through the signs displayed the Contract cannot be enforced under law.

Exactly. Clamper and the company he works for are wrong in this case, based on what has been said by way of details from the OP, and they don't have a leg to stand on legally no matter what arguement they put forward.

LadyTBolt

This thread is heart-rendering to the OP but has a sense of lack of responsibility also.
He paid for a permit to avoid getting clamped but got clamped for not displaying the permit correctly.
IMO, a reasonable clamper-person would have accepted this and released the clamp but with all the tense phonecalls the situation has exploded.

OP - I do understand this is a lot of money, especially when you believe you have been compliant.
My little piece of advice would be to call the Gardai to your home and show to them exactly how the permit was displayed at the time you were clamped and ask them to contact the clamper and ask to remove the clamp.
Some Gardai will oblige and try and diffuse the matter.
The clamper might give in and remove it.
And OP might learn to secure the permit a little better from now on.
Try the Gardai - they do free call outs afterall

You won't know until you try....

Henry Ford III

Kess73 wrote: »

Why should people be out of pocket to get a clamp removed from a car that was legally parked and then have to go through the court to get back the money?


The obvious thing would be for the clamping company or the clamper to pull their heads from their arses and check the permit, and if the permit is valid, to say sorry and take off the clamp. Bullying a person to pay the fine, and it is bullying as well as totally illegal, when the fine is not valid to start with is totally wrong and shows nothing more than ignorance and greed.

If they don't want to do that and want to illegally restrain a private vehicle which is legally entitled to be where it is, then it is time for the gardai to get involved and for all involved in the clamping process and the refusal to look at the permit to be left open to charges/fines based whatever number of sections of the two acts they have broken.

I don't think you understand what I'm suggesting, which is an immediate and pragmatic solution to the problem.

Of course the clamping co. are wrong, but being in the right and continuing have your car clamped and time wasted isn't going to achieve much is it?

Pay up, get going, and then go about getting your money back. Seems simple to me at least.

mkegvn

All sorted. Spent the past half hour on the phone and taking pictures. Rang the Gardaí and they said I have a definate case. As did the citizen information branch. Only pity is I have to pay my friendly clamper €120 first. But I'll get it back without a doubt, according to Gardaí

Cheers all for the help.

Kess73

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I don't think you understand what I'm suggesting, which is an immediate and pragmatic solution to the problem.

Of course the clamping co. are wrong, but being in the right and continuing have your car clamped and time wasted isn't going to achieve much is it?

Pay up, get going, and then go about getting your money back. Seems simple to me at least.

Of course I understand what you were saying.

But the small claims court route is not a guarantee of a quick solution after the event either, especially if the company decided to let each step of the claim go it's maximum term and then dispute the claim. The OP would be looking at hassle over a long enough spell of time and the hassle of having to take time to go to court to get back the money he paid out to a company who illegally fined him.

Much easier to take a record of everything that was said and done, take some pics, then call the gardai and tell them that the car is illegally clamped and has been for hours now meaning the OP cannot use his own car.

Then when the gardai arrive show them the permit, and then let the gardai speak to the clamper/clamping company who has illegally stopped the OP from using his vehicle and who are illegally trying to get the OP to pay money to be able to use his own vehicle.

The actual law is being broken and the clamping company is trying to enforce a fine that is not legal. Seems a no brainer to bring the gardai in when the law is being broken in such an open manner by a company/person who won't even check to see if the OP had a legal right to park there thanks to a valid permit.


Plus if the clamper has "proof" that the car was parked without a permit, as the OP said the clamper claimed, the gardai should be told this and the clamper should have to produce this "proof" and if he does not have it, then he has tried to get a fine from the OP with the threat of evidence that does not exist.

Insect Overlord

mkegvn wrote: »

All sorted. Spent the past half hour on the phone and taking pictures. Rang the Gardaí and they said I have a definate case. As did the citizen information branch. Only pity is I have to pay my friendly clamper €120 first. But I'll get it back without a doubt, according to Gardaí

Cheers all for the help.

Let me know if/when you want this thread closed. I can re-open it again if you want to post an update sometime in the future.

Kess73

mkegvn wrote: »

All sorted. Spent the past half hour on the phone and taking pictures. Rang the Gardaí and they said I have a definate case. As did the citizen information branch. Only pity is I have to pay my friendly clamper €120 first. But I'll get it back without a doubt, according to Gardaí

Cheers all for the help.

Shame you will have to pay first, but glad things are moving for you.

I hope the clamper and the company he works for get what is coming to them in court and I hope this thread gets spotted by the members of the local media who use this and other forums on boards and the clamper and the company he works for get publicity for the underhanded way they do business in the area.

That kind of mickey mouse company and employee should get highlighted so that the public and any property management companies know to avoid giving them any business in the future.

kilburn

Call me an idiot if you want but surely the management company would give a list to the clampers of the reg numbers of cars that have permits?
Seems like a no brainer. Glad you got sorted anyway.

mkegvn

Cheers lads. Mod, I suppose we better close it to avoid any hassle. Thanks for your help.