Online sellers:AIB to do away with Laser Cards, replace them with Visa Debit Cards...

HellFireClub

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/aib-to-replace-laser-with-visa-debit-card-2824267.html

Just wondering, this for for any online sellers here like myself, does this mean that the 12 Cent fixed cost for processing a Laser Card payment will now be replaced with a 2% charge or whatever it is that you have agreed with your merchant bank, when Laser Cards will be a thing of the past and replaced with a Visa Debit Card?

iMax

Most probably.

TheCostumeShop.ie: Ronan

Technically not, but check your bill because they have been know not to charge the correct fee on debit cards. Until you ask that is.

You are entitled to pay the same fixed fee. Good post fella, it's important we keep on top of them on things like this.

cfeeneyinterior

Good post. Was wondering this myself recently. So should we only be getting charged a laser fee or the percentage. And if so has anyone managed to convince them?

TheCostumeShop.ie: Ronan

Just the debit fixed fee on all Laser / Debit cards. Percentage is just for credit cards.

Bandara

"Phasing out of Laser debit cards from the ROI market.



Bank of Ireland have announced their plan to phase out laser debit cards and move customers to Debit Visa cards, as have Ulster Bank and Permanent TSB.



AIB and NIB have yet to decide what to do but indications are that a move away from Laser will be announced soon.



This means that retailers will no longer pay a €cent per transaction charge on these new debit cards, instead a merchant service % fee will apply.



Attached is an outline of likely scenarios for different type stores. You can tailor the template to your own store specific profile to see the additional cost that you may me exposed to per transaction.



Retail Excellence Ireland is a representative body that lobby on behalf of group retailers. REI has written to the acquiring banks seeking clarification (sample letter attached).I will update you on any response received.



It would be advisable for you to –

1. Contact your bank and seek reassurance that merchant service charges will not increase

2. Seek confirmation that the “cash-back” element of the transaction will not incur a charge"


FYI

cfeeneyinterior

Been looking this morning and we have been charged a % fee on these cards for the last 3 years. Visa debit and MC debit. We are with Elavon. Can or should they be billing on a transaction basis; same as Laser as you guys are saying earlier? And if so how successful have you been in getting this done? Alot of money going to get squeezed away again by these guys.

Bandara

cfeeneyinterior wrote: »

Been looking this morning and we have been charged a % fee on these cards for the last 3 years. Visa debit and MC debit. We are with Elavon. Can or should they be billing on a transaction basis; same as Laser as you guys are saying earlier? And if so how successful have you been in getting this done? Alot of money going to get squeezed away again by these guys.

i did a bit of looking into it and I estimate that my average transaction fee will go from approx 16 cent to 40c

Its a huge issue thats going to blowup soon I feel.

Also the new technology of swipe and pay with your cards is going to be available at a reduced fee for the first year and a 40c fee after that (allegedly). Which considering that the maximum spend on the swipe and pay method is €15 is over 2.5% fee (as against the 1.3% you pay on average with standard credit cards)

HellFireClub

The beauty of taking the Laser Card as a mode of payment is that it doesn't eat into your margins like Visa or MasterCard, but it's diffcult for me to see how the likes of AIB and BOI will not be charging somewhere around the 2% mark to process your payment.

So if you are taking a payment for 300 Euro worth of goods, you expect to pay 9 Euro for the privilege of being paid by Visa, as oppsed to the 12 cent you would pay if you took a Laser Card payment.

Is there any way at all I'm wondering that these snakes in our brilliant banks are just trying to load these kind of rediculous charges onto their business/merchant customers, maybe under political direction to start screwing any merchants that have to use these merchant services for payments???

All it's going to do is eat into margins which will cause the cost to be put back into the product. And anyway, what is wrong with Laser Cards, why start taking them all in?

Personally I smell a rat.

HellFireClub

cfeeneyinterior wrote: »

Been looking this morning and we have been charged a % fee on these cards for the last 3 years. Visa debit and MC debit. We are with Elavon. Can or should they be billing on a transaction basis; same as Laser as you guys are saying earlier? And if so how successful have you been in getting this done? Alot of money going to get squeezed away again by these guys.

^^^^^^^^ There's the answer there for everyone. Obviously Visa Debit cards are not a new product and banks have been charging merchants a % on these payments up until now, based obviously on the value of the transaction. I can't see this changing just because AIB/BOI decide to replace their Laser Cards with Visa Debit Cards.

EDIT: The more I think about this, the more it sound's like the snakiest manouvre that I've ever heard coming out of a bank in this country.

curlywurly26

I'm an Ulster Bank customer and I was thrilled when they changed my laser for a visa debit as I had problems paying with it in a lot of situations out of Ireland (even in NI) or online. The Visa debit is accepted everywhere and I have yet to have any problems with it.

It sucks that you'll be getting charged more but I'd say consumer demand changed this more than anything...

Bandara

curlywurly26 wrote: »

I'm an Ulster Bank customer and I was thrilled when they changed my laser for a visa debit as I had problems paying with it in a lot of situations out of Ireland (even in NI) or online. The Visa debit is accepted everywhere and I have yet to have any problems with it.

It sucks that you'll be getting charged more but I'd say consumer demand changed this more than anything...

As far as I'm aware your getting charged more to use it as well.

* When paying for goods or services outside the eurozone – 1.75% of the euro value of the transaction (min €0.46 max €11.43).
* ATM transactions outside the EU will be charged 3.5% of the euro value (min €3.17 – max €11.43).
* All non Euro withdrawals will be charged 3.5% of the euro value (min €3.17 – max €11.43).



Not to mention a tripling of fees to the retailers etc will obviously result on increases inprices to cover this

investment

I relation to paypal how much would a person pay on 50 euro's?


also what is a better option ie moneybrookers

curlywurly26

As far as I'm aware your getting charged more to use it as well.

* When paying for goods or services outside the eurozone – 1.75% of the euro value of the transaction (min €0.46 max €11.43).
* ATM transactions outside the EU will be charged 3.5% of the euro value (min €3.17 – max €11.43).
* All non Euro withdrawals will be charged 3.5% of the euro value (min €3.17 – max €11.43).

This is true but I'm not sure how much extra this is from using the laser in same situations!? I would rarely use my card outside the eurozone (except NI) so to me, it's worth it for the less hassle I get!
In NI I can use UB ATMs and not get charged, and in the UK I can use any RBS/Natwest ATMs and not be charged so just need to be smart with how I go about it, and take out money in these machines instead of paying by card!

I suppose it's hassle but of a different sense and for me personally, less than before. For how much I use it in those situations, it won't cost me too much extra per year whereas you guys will get hit every day!

HellFireClub

Nice thing to be letting go on when the government claim to be trying to help small businesses.

TheCostumeShop.ie: Ronan

Actually AIB have stated that Visa Debit consumer cards are on a transaction rate from March 2011, it's only Corporate debit cards that are a % rate - Because before businesses had to use credit processes.

Here's AIB's official bit I found online. The others are illusive as usual, I know Ulster bank have a similar agreement for debit and Elavon should too.

www.aibms.com/content/documents/roi_communication.pdf

HellFireClub

Seems I stand corrected, which is a good thing in this case, unless of course the "Transaction Rate", is some mad amount!

cfeeneyinterior

I know why they are getting rid of Laser....... We were all gone mad on credit a few years ago as we all know. Lots of % 's for the banks and sure they let the few people continue using their laser cards. Now we are paying off the credit card balances asap and using Laser cards instead to stay on top of our finances.
So now the bank aren't making the %'s they need from us Merchants. So what will they do. Boom! get rid of Laser; Visa charges all the way for the retailers....
Its two fingers to us and damn all we can do about it.....

HellFireClub

cfeeneyinterior wrote: »

I know why they are getting rid of Laser....... We were all gone mad on credit a few years ago as we all know. Lots of % 's for the banks and sure they let the few people continue using their laser cards. Now we are paying off the credit card balances asap and using Laser cards instead to stay on top of our finances.
So now the bank aren't making the %'s they need from us Merchants. So what will they do. Boom! get rid of Laser; Visa charges all the way for the retailers....
Its two fingers to us and damn all we can do about it.....

I can't speak for your Laser Card, but on mine, I can't spend whay I do not have in my account. The day is long gone where you could try an "offline" transaction with your signature on a Saturday and the account would go overdrawn the following Monday.

Captain Chaos

HellFireClub wrote: »

I can't speak for your Laser Card, but on mine, I can't spend whay I do not have in my account. The day is long gone where you could try an "offline" transaction with your signature on a Saturday and the account would go overdrawn the following Monday.

And Visa Debit/ATM cards which are replacing Laser work in exactly the same way. Can't spend what you don't have.

cfeeneyinterior

HellFireClub wrote: »

I can't speak for your Laser Card, but on mine, I can't spend whay I do not have in my account. The day is long gone where you could try an "offline" transaction with your signature on a Saturday and the account would go overdrawn the following Monday.

I think you misunderstood me. the banks are charging the retailers not the card holders. Previously Laser cards were used and the retailer paid say 15c when you bought for eg €100 worth of goods, now its going to be 1.5-2% with the newer Visa/MC debit cards that are replacing them; which means retailers will now have to pay €1.50-€2 on the same transaction.
Retailers always had to pay these fees when people used credit cards but now all transactions will be at this higher rate.

Personally I think it is great to be able to use Debit cards, especially online etc rather than Laser. However in this forum Entrepreneurial & Bus. Management, the loss of Laser transactions is more of a retailer/business arguement/Annoyance.

HellFireClub

cfeeneyinterior wrote: »

I think you misunderstood me. the banks are charging the retailers not the card holders. Previously Laser cards were used and the retailer paid say 15c when you bought for eg €100 worth of goods, now its going to be 1.5-2% with the newer Visa/MC debit cards that are replacing them; which means retailers will now have to pay €1.50-€2 on the same transaction.
Retailers always had to pay these fees when people used credit cards but now all transactions will be at this higher rate.

Personally I think it is great to be able to use Debit cards, especially online etc rather than Laser. However in this forum Entrepreneurial & Bus. Management, the loss of Laser transactions is more of a retailer/business arguement/Annoyance.

I think the set up with how the charges will operate on the Visa debit card, at least insofar as AIB are concerned, have been clarified by a poster above.

We know that AIB will be used a "fixed charge per transaction", approach, however what the fixed charge will be is another thing altogether I think...

cfeeneyinterior

I was wondering has anyone; using Elavon, gotten them to do the same as AIB in respect to charging a fixed fee for all debit card transactions. I am in the process of emailing them a few emails, but they are playing dumb to what we want. (currently charging a 1.5% fee for them)

cfeeneyinterior

They are great rates..... I'll be getting on to them!

MOH

Hammertime wrote: »

Hi all

Been lookign into this, above is the latest quote by Streamline (Ulster Bank)

IMO its a massive improvement on any of the current offering out there.

As its a confidential quote I'd appreciate if you'd keep this to yourselves (ie. don't quote the source etc), I'll leave it up for a day or two and then remove so cut and paste it if you want it

From early looks its about 50% better rate on business cards and 40% on standard visa and mastercard personal cards !

Regards
HT

Just signed up with them a few weeks ago, rates I'm getting are a lot higher than those - roughly double in most cases

cfeeneyinterior

Sent them a mail this morning but no news yet. How did you get such low rates Hamertime?

Kintarō Hattori

Has anyone had a problem in relation to security with these cards? I'm really quite concerned that they would be wide open to abuse.

With a credit card and in a lot of cases for Laser Cards you can ring Elevon and get a name and address check for the cards. You can't do this with Visa Debit Cards leaving them potentially wide open to abuse.

I recently had a situation where a product was ordered over the website. A name and address check wasn't possible and Realex was of no use either. We looked at the address it was being delivered too using Streetview and decided to send the item. Delivery driver dropped off the item and got a signature. A few weeks later we got a charge back from the bank as the owner of the card said they never bought the item online. The address the item was delivered too was rented and the person who took delivery of the item wasn't there.

So, as far as I can tell, there is little security for these debit cards. Is there some service the bank will operate to provide or are they potentially open to lots of abuse?

TheCostumeShop.ie: Ronan

Ok guys wanted to update you all, been looking into this in dept the last week. Turns out its a far bigger problem than I initially thought! I've blogged about it here

But to give a quick summary from the article, with regard to Elavon:

"A €500 purchase last year paid by Laser card would have cost the retailer roughly 15c. The same purchase for the same customer & amount this year, using their spanking new Laser replacement, Visa Debit Card, would cost the retailer €7.75 – An astonishing 5,100% increase in their fee’s on the transaction with the flip of a switch!..."

"If you fix the fee at 54c, up from 15c, but better than 1.55%; Should someone spend only 5Euro, their cut on the transaction is over 10%. One way or another they will squeeze some money from the stone."

So if you sell sandwiches at a garage, because of the high value of debit on petrol you would have to fix the fee. But then on purchases of just a 5Euro sandwich you would then be charged the 54c, or 10.8%, just to take payment. I can't see how this won't have affect jobs and the economy when people cop on.

Ulster bank have got on to me saying they will do Debit cards at 23c, but they want increases in the credit card and laser fee's that we currently pay.

My idea is to start a buying group, where all retailers offline & online, join forces and gain some bargaining power. At the moment smaller businesses have no bargaining power and even bigger players are being treated like dirt by merchant banks. 5,100% increases during a recession is absolute criminal behavior. If interested let me know below or on the blog (no pm's on this please).

Bandara

Ronan

pm me a fax number for you, I've a document that you may find interesting

HT

stcstc

i have only just had my first machine installed yesterday and its way more complicated than i thought ( the figures etc)

I was quite surprised how quickly the rep changed the figures as i question them

10000maniacs

The reason why acquirers like AIB Merchant Services can offer lower rates than Elavon for credit card transactions is that they are using bailout money provided by the Irish taxpayer to subsitise their fees to gain a foothold in the acquirer market. Elavon Merchant Services never availed of any bailout and survive as a totally independent entity. And they can still offer the retailer a very competitive product.
The Visa Debit/Laser issue is just a pricing issue with the credit card companies.