Release Brendan Lillis [See Mod Warning Post 415]

fasttalkerchat

KeithAFC wrote: »

You can't be serious? You want Michael Stone released who attempted to kill only a few years ago?

If Michael Stone was going to die tomorrow morning I would have no objections to him being released tonight.
One big difference is that Brendan has not been found guilty of any crime and is unlikely ever to be found guilty since he is too sick to have a trial.

blahfckingblah

wow keith iv seen some attempts to twist words in my days but that was aweful. he obviously didnt say "i want michael stone to be released" of course not hes sane, he said "having been convicted if he was seriously ill he should be released" the lengths you go to are unreal

KeithAFC

blahfckingblah wrote: »

wow keith iv seen some attempts to twist words in my days but that was aweful. he obviously didnt say "i want michael stone to be released" of course not hes sane, he said "having been convicted if he was seriously ill he should be released" the lengths you go to are unreal

If he was seriously ill LOL. Come off it. No one on here would seriously care about Michael Stone if he was seriously ill and in jail. I can't believe anyone would be calling for his release.

Only reason this is brought up is because he was in the PIRA. If it was a rapist, no one would care and that is the truth.

blahfckingblah

KeithAFC wrote: »

If he was seriously ill LOL. Come off it. No one on here would seriously care about Michael Stone if he was seriously ill and in jail. I can't believe anyone would be calling for his release.

Only reason this is brought up is because he was in the PIRA. If it was a rapist, no one would care and that is the truth.

yet you believed that wolfe tone wanted him released a healthy man, or was that to provoke a response?

KeithAFC

blahfckingblah wrote: »

yet you believed that wolfe tone wanted him released a healthy man, or was that to provoke a response?

No. I don't believe when he said if he was ill. That is my point. I don't think anyone would seriously care regardless.

Godge

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Almost a hundred years ago my hole.


Why is it necessary to distinguish? The Brits were willing to release the Libyan bomber, why not Brendan Lillis?

I am all for similar treatment.

Jon Venables broke the terms of his release and was thrown back into jail. Brendan Lillis broke the terms of his release and was thrown back into jail. Same issue, same treatment, no problem.

Hayte

To say that the situation with Jon Venebles and Brendan Lillis is the same is incredibly disingenuous. Venebles is serving the remainder of his sentence is because he was judged to be capable of re-offending and was highly likely to do so. Brendan Lillis is for all intents and purposes completely incapacitated given that he has end stage ankylosing spondylitis. From what I can tell his spine is fused, he is unable to walk or sit upright without severe pain and has breathing difficulties associated with his condition.

When we are talking about releasing someone from prison, we have to take into account their likelihood of re-offending and whether keeping them confined would involve forcing them to live and die in inhumane conditions.

If we are capable of inflicting suffering on this scale to an individual, no matter their crimes, I think it says something very disturbing about us, about our capacity to forgive and to show compassion to someone who is suffering and on the brink of death. At some point, someone has to have the sense to look up for a minute and see that what is happening is wrong in some way.

The law is not a hard and fast set of rules that you must obey. There are reasons for them and reasons why we should not always blindly follow the letter of the law just because. There is an element of law called equity - it arises in situations when the application of law causes great harm to someone. That in administering justice, we are creating a different kind of injustice, even those who have wronged me.

I think there are compelling reasons to release Lillis on compassionate grounds and if I was a victim of the crimes he was accused of, but for which he was unfit to stand trial, it wouldn't change my opinion. I wouldn't want to live a life so consumed with vengeance that I have become blind to the suffering of others.

Liam Byrne

Hayte, he was given a chance and he refused it.

That's not the system's fault.

If he had wanted to be one, he would be a free man.

Liam Byrne

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

If Michael Stone was going to die tomorrow morning I would have no objections to him being released tonight.
One big difference is that Brendan has not been found guilty of any crime and is unlikely ever to be found guilty since he is too sick to have a trial.

Huh? He was found guilty of a crime! That's what he's in jail for!

There's no need to lie!

fasttalkerchat

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Huh? He was found guilty of a crime! That's what he's in jail for!

There's no need to lie!

Maybe I'm wrong. I thought that he had yet to have his trial.

Liam Byrne

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Maybe I'm wrong. I thought that he had yet to have his trial.

Did you read the thread?

He was tried and convicted of his crime, released on conditions, broke those conditions by associating with criminals again.

He didn't stand trial for that second offence but was re-jailed for the remainder of his original term because he'd said no to being given a second chance by breaking the conditions of his early release.

Sunnyisland

Hayte wrote: »

To say that the situation with Jon Venables and Brendan Lillis is the same is incredibly disingenuous. Venables is serving the remainder of his sentence is because he was judged to be capable of re-offending and was highly likely to do so. Brendan Lillis is for all intents and purposes completely incapacitated given that he has end stage ankylosing spondylitis. From what I can tell his spine is fused, he is unable to walk or sit upright without severe pain and has breathing difficulties associated with his condition.

When we are talking about releasing someone from prison, we have to take into account their likelihood of re-offending and whether keeping them confined would involve forcing them to live and die in inhumane conditions.

If we are capable of inflicting suffering on this scale to an individual, no matter their crimes, I think it says something very disturbing about us, about our capacity to forgive and to show compassion to someone who is suffering and on the brink of death. At some point, someone has to have the sense to look up for a minute and see that what is happening is wrong in some way.

The law is not a hard and fast set of rules that you must obey. There are reasons for them and reasons why we should not always blindly follow the letter of the law just because. There is an element of law called equity - it arises in situations when the application of law causes great harm to someone. That in administering justice, we are creating a different kind of injustice, even those who have wronged me.

I think there are compelling reasons to release Lillis on compassionate grounds and if I was a victim of the crimes he was accused of, but for which he was unfit to stand trial, it wouldn't change my opinion. I wouldn't want to live a life so consumed with vengeance that I have become blind to the suffering of others.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Did you read the thread?

He was tried and convicted of his crime, released on conditions, broke those conditions by associating with criminals again.

He didn't stand trial for that second offence but was re-jailed for the remainder of his original term because he'd said no to being given a second chance by breaking the conditions of his early release.

I agree with most of the points made in these 2 posts, If he is to be released on compassionate grounds ok, But I certainly don't agree with ex republicans getting involved in self gain armed robberies and if he did well he knows what to expect.

Wolfe Tone

Recent speech by his partner... Have a lot of admiration for that woman, she is very brave, it can't be easy.


Listen to her there, she just wants her husband to be allowed to come home to die with some dignity, surrounded by her and their family, rather than in a jail.

Recent events have, for me at least, banished any hope that the British justice system is different now than it was 30 years ago. I can't help but feel that if he dies in jail, it will be a watershed moment.

KeithAFC

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Recent speech by his partner... Have a lot of admiration for that woman, she is very brave, it can't be easy.


Listen to her there, she just wants her husband to be allowed to come home to die with some dignity, surrounded by her and their family, rather than in a jail.

Recent events have, for me at least, banished any hope that the British justice system is different now than it was 30 years ago. I can't help but feel that if he dies in jail, it will be a watershed moment.

Aye of course. The troubles will be back because this guy dies in jail while serving his prison sentence. Just like a lot of people have done in history.

Why is he a special case?

Wolfe Tone

KeithAFC wrote: »

Aye of course. The troubles will be back because this guy dies in jail while serving his prison sentence. Just like a lot of people have done in history.

Why is he a special case?

Did I say that? Don't put words in my mouth.

JustinDee

Hayte wrote: »

When we are talking about releasing someone from prison, we have to take into account their likelihood of re-offending and whether keeping them confined would involve forcing them to live and die in inhumane conditions

You must not ignore the punitive element of a prison sentence either.

KeithAFC

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Did I say that? Don't put words in my mouth.

So why is this guy a special case then? Lots of people have died in prison while serving a sentence.

Wolfe Tone

Republican prisoner Brendan Lillis will not be released

Brendan Lillis is being held at Maghaberry Prison.

Republican prisoner Brendan Lillis will not be released on compassionate grounds, the Life Sentence Review Commission has decided.

Mr Lillis, who suffers from a severe arthritic condition, was sentenced to life in 1977 on explosives charges.

The 59-year-old served almost 16 years of that sentence before being released on licence in 1993.

Secretary of State Shaun Woodward revoked this in 2009 after Mr Lillis was re-arrested on robbery charges.

The reason given was that he was "a danger to the public" and was told he would have to serve the rest of his original life sentence at Maghaberry Prison.

Earlier this year, it was decided Mr Lillis was too ill to stand trial, although he could face charges if his health improves.

Sinn Fein MLA Jennifer McCann called Tuesday's decision "wrong" and said she would be raising the issue during a meeting with Justice Minister David Ford on Wednesday.

"This man is seriously ill, too ill indeed to stand trial. How can someone be a danger to the public when they are unfit to attend a court?" she said.

On 19 July, the Prison Service said there were not sufficient grounds to justify his release on compassionate grounds. The case was then passed for consideration by the parole commissioners.

There were a number of campaigns calling for his release this month. A motion was passed at Derry City Council and a protest camp was set up in Londonderry.

His partner, Roisin Lynch, also began a hunger strike on 21 July in protest at his continued imprisonment.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-14292229


What a disgrace, how in the hell is he still a danger, he can't walk,barely talk, spends every day in pain, is now under 5 and a half stone, is completely bedridden and has been for over 600 days and is near death.

SURELY if he was capable of being such a threat he would be able to appear before a court?

Alopex

Problem for the justice minister is if this guy is released and doesn't kick the bucket within a month, he'll have to put up with the wrath of unionist politicians indefinitely. If he dies, well most of his supporters who really care are dissidents with no political voice, so can't criticise him. Sinn Fein care far more about their cushy government jobs than Mr Lillis, and their newfound middle class voters aren't going to be concerned either. MLA Jennifer McCann is going to raise the issue at a meeting, oooh how revolutionary

On top of that you'd have a ream of other prisoners claiming to be terminally ill. Independent medical decisions don't mean a thing, look at al megrahi.

On balance of probabilities, Ford has decided keeping him imprisoned is the most hassle free option.

Zubeneschamali

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

how in the hell is he still a danger, he can't walk,barely talk, spends every day in pain, is now under 5 and a half stone, is completely bedridden and has been for over 600 days

If he's been bedridden for 600 days, that would be since Dec 3 2009.

Yet on 16th of October that year, he was well enough to be in a field behind a house on the Aughrim Road near Magharafelt in the early hours of the morning. That illness seems to have flared up very suddenly after his arrest.

Wolfe Tone

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

If he's been bedridden for 600 days, that would be since Dec 3 2009.

Yet on 16th of October that year, he was well enough to be in a field behind a house on the Aughrim Road near Magharafelt in the early hours of the morning. That illness seems to have flared up very suddenly after his arrest.

Are you suggesting he is somehow faking his spine fusing?

Corsendonk

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Are you suggesting he is somehow faking his spine fusing?

Well I did mention Ernest Sauders in this thread already. He made a full recovery after getting out. Have we independent medical evidence about Brendan Lillis condition?

Wolfe Tone

Corsendonk wrote: »

Well I did mention Ernest Sauders in this thread already. He made a full recovery after getting out. Have we independent medical evidence about Brendan Lillis condition?

Do you think that the doctors who decided that he was unable to stand trial, an opinion which was accepted by the authorities, where somehow biased in favor of Brendan Lillis and made this up/lied?

I would imagine the docs who made this decision where court appointed. His illness is not being faked, you can't exactly fake his condition.

Zubeneschamali

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Are you suggesting he is somehow faking his spine fusing?

Anklyosing Spondolitis is a long term degenerative illness. Apparently, Lillis made it into his 50s without being disabled, as he was still able to plan and lead, erm, whatever team activities had him in that field in October.

It's possible that it flared up within weeks of his arrest by coincidence. It's possible that the prison regime is just not conducive to him doing his exercises, and that made it worse.

It's also possible that he was milking it for the 'unfit to stand trial ruling', and now for a compassionate release. He may even have knackered his back beyond repair in the process.

KeithAFC

I think the question about why is this a special case in regards to Brendan Lillis? I am a bit baffled by it. I am sure many people in prison are in a similar situation health wise and will serve the prison sentence, regardless. He should do the same. I really don't understand why he should be let out just because of his health.

I use the comparison between a rapist or Ian Huntley or some one like that, if one of them had an illness, would we all be chanting from the roof tops for the release of this certain prisoner? Of course we wouldn't.

Wolfe Tone

KeithAFC wrote: »

I think the question about why is this a special case in regards to Brendan Lillis? I am a bit baffled by it. I am sure many people in prison are in a similar situation health wise and will serve the prison sentence, regardless. He should do the same. I really don't understand why he should be let out just because of his health.

I use the comparison between a rapist or Ian Huntley or some one like that, if one of them had an illness, would we all be chanting from the roof tops for the release of this certain prisoner? Of course we wouldn't.

The SDLP guy covered this pretty well, this is a humanitarian issue and it shouldn't be a political one.

Its pretty obvious that you want me to say "he should be released because he was in the PIRA"or something like that, but thats not the case, as I said, if anyone else was in the same condition and circumstances, on license etc, I would also support them being released so they can die at home with friends and family.

Happyman42

KeithAFC wrote: »

I think the question about why is this a special case in regards to Brendan Lillis? I am a bit baffled by it. I am sure many people in prison are in a similar situation health wise and will serve the prison sentence, regardless. He should do the same. I really don't understand why he should be let out just because of his health.

I use the comparison between a rapist or Ian Huntley or some one like that, if one of them had an illness, would we all be chanting from the roof tops for the release of this certain prisoner? Of course we wouldn't.

This has become a political hot potato as you well know. People are released from prison all the time without a word being said about it.
Because Lillis was in PIRA he has to be kept inhumanely incarcerated (for his family as well as him) in case Unionist self righteousness is offended. 'What do people matter as long as we uphold the moral imperative?'
Christians? ....yeh right!!!

KeithAFC

Happyman42 wrote: »

This has become a political hot potato as you well know. People are released from prison all the time without a word being said about it.
Because Lillis was in PIRA he has to be kept inhumanely incarcerated (for his family as well as him) in case Unionist self righteousness is offended. 'What do people matter as long as we uphold the moral imperative?'
Christians? ....yeh right!!!

Christianity? Who gives a fk about that? Not me.

I want him to serve his prison sentence, like many other people. A few on this exact thread have said the same. It has nothing to do with humanitarian causes. Brendan has led a life which put him at a high risk of finding himself in prison. He is serving a prison sentence, he should serve that prison sentence. He would not be in this position if he didn't go down the life route he has went down. His health is completely irrelevant. And he got released from prison and then ended up finding himself back in prison again.

It is his own fault.

Happyman42

KeithAFC wrote: »

Christianity? Who gives a fk about that? Not me.

I want him to serve his prison sentence, like many other people. A few on this exact thread have said the same. It has nothing to do with humanitarian causes. Brendan has led a life which put him at a high risk of finding himself in prison. He is serving a prison sentence, he should serve that prison sentence. He would not be in this position if he didn't go down the life route he has went down. His health is completely irrelevant. And he got released from prison and then ended up finding himself back in prison again.

It is his own fault.

So all you sanctimonious law abiding 'christians' show me where you have objected to anybody else getting released on medical or humanitarian grounds?
A post on another thread here would suffice.......I won't hold my breath.

KeithAFC

Happyman42 wrote: »

So all you sanctimonious law abiding 'christians' show me where you have objected to anybody else getting released on medical or humanitarian grounds?
A post on another thread here would suffice.......I won't hold my breath.

Who is a Christian? I ain't. I don't care about that. This isn't about religion. It is about a guy serving his prison sentence.

Happyman42

KeithAFC wrote: »

Who is a Christian? I ain't. I don't care about that. This isn't about religion. It is about a guy serving his prison sentence.

He is imprisioned by a system that has the Christian ethos enshrined in it. Keeping this man in prison is unchristian and inhumane. But what matters if a few Unionists are kept quiet?
Fairly typical behaviour at this time of the year...don't antagonise the 'Orange Mob'

KeithAFC

Happyman42 wrote: »

He is imprisioned by a system that has the Christian ethos enshrined in it. Keeping this man in prison is unchristian and inhumane. But what matters if a few Unionists are kept quiet?
Fairly typical behaviour at this time of the year...don't antagonise the 'Orange Mob'

They should perhaps change that. It is only my personal view but i would like to see him serve his sentence.

Happyman42

KeithAFC wrote: »

It is only my personal view but i would like to see him serve his sentence.

Try putting your humanity before your need to score politically or culturally.

Wolfe Tone

Happyman42 wrote: »

Try putting your humanity before your need to score politically or culturally.

Sure why would Keith care about a filthy taig?

KeithAFC

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Sure why would Keith care about a filthy taig?

A filthy criminal perhaps. I wonder how strong the support within the Republican movement is for this guy. It seems only IR.net have a big support for him.

Alopex

Greysteel killer Torrens Knight has been released from prison.

Knight was given 12 life sentences for the Greysteel massacre and the murder of four workmen in Castlerock, both carried out by the loyalist UFF.

He was sent back to prison last year for attacking two sisters in a Coleraine bar and had his early release licence suspended.

However, he has now been released again following a decision by the Sentence Review Commission.

The licence had been suspended by former sceretary of state Shaun Woodward.

Once a released prisoner's licence has been suspended by the secretary of state, the sentence review commissioners have to consider his case on receipt of an application from the prisoner.

If the commissioners think the released prisoner has not broken, and is not likely to break, the conditions of his licence, they will confirm his licence (to remain free): otherwise they will revoke it.

'Kid gloves'
SDLP MLA John Dallat said Knight had been treated with "kid gloves".

"Under the early release scheme there has been a variety of procedures followed, in other words there's no standardisation," Mr Dallat said

"Some have had their licences revoked immediately even before court cases, others have had them suspended.

"But this one has been particularly bizarre and it raises a whole range of questions as to why Torrens Knight, the Greysteel killer, has got kid glove treatment."

Atrocity
Greysteel was one of the worst atrocities of the Northern Ireland Troubles.

Two gunmen from the Ulster Freedom Fighters opened fire on the Rising Sun bar in County Londonderry in October 1993.

They shot dead seven people, both men and women. Another man later died of his injuries.

Customers at first thought it was a Halloween prank as the gunmen shouted "trick or treat" before opening fire on the bar.

It followed an IRA bomb attack on the Shankill Road in west Belfast just days earlier, in which 10 people, including one of the bombers, were killed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-10899786

yup. 5 stone Lillis defo a bigger risk than this guy

Mr. Presentable

It's not about what risk he poses. It is about his debt to society. He was sentenced to life in prison and to the best of my estimation has served about 18 years.

A compromise:
Let him out again on licence and if his health improves or fails to deteriorate send him back to complete his sentence.

Zubeneschamali

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

A compromise:
Let him out again on licence and if his health improves or fails to deteriorate send him back to complete his sentence.

All right, but strictly no tiger kidnap gangs this time, OK?

OhNoYouDidn't

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

It's not about what risk he poses. It is about his debt to society. He was sentenced to life in prison and to the best of my estimation has served about 18 years.

But he served his sentence, and like all other political prisoners was released as part of the peace process.

He has had that release reversed on very spurious charges and is basically in jail on remand for a crime he couldn't realistically have committed in his state of health.

Why not charge him and release him on bail on the tiger raid charges? What purpose does holding a terminally ill man who cannot walk in prison serve, especially when far more dangerous loyalists get better treatment?

KeithAFC

Wasn't he released in 1993 and not 1998?

Wolfe Tone

KeithAFC wrote: »

Wasn't he released in 1993 and not 1998?

Yes, it was unconnected to the GFA.

end a eknny

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Where did it say he was a republican prisoner ? I didn't see that anywhere in your post, and I was just commenting as I would on any criminal thug.

liam your blueshirt lies are really stretching the imagination now, you claim to not know that somebody who was on blanket protest in h block and was released on license in 2009 was a republican. if this is true and your knowledge of the issue is that bad you have no right to comment. if on the other hand all your posts are of somebody who is a big supporter of f.g and their policy of apoligisng to unionist for the behavior of republicans who through their 26 county middleclass view see the ira as thugs and not the brave soliders fighting with bravery, intelligence and commitment against the richest and most depicable armies in the world. to free their country and to lift their people out of an appartheid political regime they where under

Bonavox

Wait, am I missing something here? He committed a crime, he's doing the time. Let him rot as far as I'm concerned.

fasttalkerchat

Sample letter for anyone who does want to help this guy to die humanely.

cptdoc@coe.int

To Whom It May Concern
Brendan Lillis is currently a prisoner in Maghaberry Prison where he is serving a sentence for explosive offences in 1976. Brendan suffers from the condition ankylosing spondylitis and has been confined to bed for the best part of the past two years (as of today 27th July 2011 it is 620 days)

Brendan Lillis is no threat to anybody. Brendan Lillis is dying and has been abandoned by an entire political system which is more interested in making statements about his condition than in applying their political power to remedy the situation.

I am asking for you to please intervene in this case to stop the torture of this man and of all prisoners in Maghaberry because unfortunately Brendan's case is only the tip of the iceberg in the long and neverending list of Human Rights abuses and torture practised on a daily basis within the prison.

I am calling for the immediate release of Brendan Lillis to his partner Roisin so that whatever time Brendan has left on this earth be spent with his immediate family.

Brendan Lillis can not walk; he can not get up from his bed. He is incapacitated, and he is being left alone to die in a prison cell. We have seen enough of our people die in prison cells and find the manner in which Brendan is being treated as an obscenity.

Time is fast running out for Brendan Lillis and he should be released immediately.
The Northern Irish Justice Minister, the Stormont Government and the Parole Board have all decided to allow this man, who has been charged with no crime nor sentenced by no judge, to die alone in a prison bed because of his political beliefs. Please do not allow this to continue.

Yours Sincerely

---

jimmycrackcorm

Your sample letter is missing the bit about how he got out on licence but chose to continue being a criminal and ended up back in. Tough - he was given a chance and rejected it.

fasttalkerchat

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Your sample letter is missing the bit about how he got out on licence but chose to continue being a criminal and ended up back in. Tough - he was given a chance and rejected it.

You'll get what you want when he dies alone in a prison cell then. But for anyone with an opinion different to your own or a bit of decency there's the letter.

KeithAFC

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

You'll get what you want when he dies alone in a prison cell then. But for anyone with an opinion different to your own or a bit of decency there's the letter.

People dying in Somalia who have done nothing to deserve it. Brendan on the other hand was let out of prison and had another chance to move in a different direction, if he wanted to. He rejected it and thus COULD die in prison and if he does, it is his own fault and no one else.

blahfckingblah

people die everywhere all the time keith under a range of cirsumstances

Liam Byrne

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

You'll get what you want when he dies alone in a prison cell then. But for anyone with an opinion different to your own or a bit of decency there's the letter.

Bull.

I've more than "a bit of decency" and I wouldn't sign that it a million years.

You appear to have a very arbitrary definition of decency.

So I wouldn't go slagging others about "different opinions" considering your self-styled blanket monopoly on "decency".

fasttalkerchat

KeithAFC wrote: »

People dying in Somalia who have done nothing to deserve it. Brendan on the other hand was let out of prison and had another chance to move in a different direction, if he wanted to. He rejected it and thus COULD die in prison and if he does, it is his own fault and no one else.

Do something to help the people in Somalia then. I'll happily post my support in that thread when you start it.