Gamestop scrounging pennies, literally

Mr Freeze

johnmcdnl wrote: »

They always give the cent back in Cavan

I don't think they'd get away with not giving you your cent change in Cavan.

Dermo

CramCycle wrote: »

Is there relevant legislation for this, as I can't find it? Not saying your wrong but from a legal perspective when they tell you how much you want they are creating a contract you can accept or deny, if they don't give you a total then they don't have to give you change. I was just wondering were the relevant legislation was/can be found on the statute books?

As I said previously I learnt about this through those threads on boards and other ones I can't find now.
IANAL but if the seller says that's €49.99 and you say here's €50. You are technically making a counter offer. I'm open to being proven wrong (or right )
Now if you were to use the words "I agree. Do you have change of a €50?", obviously that changes things.
We have to remember that these laws were made when shops opened up with very little or no money already in their tills. It's the duty of the buyer to have the correct money to buy something, not the seller to provide change.
I don't agree with it, and believe it should be the other way round.

In fact I am more curious about this now than I've ever been. I'm going to take this to Legal Discussion.

mystic86

lol!

ShooterSF

I have to laugh at the argument that no one pays in pennies so it does happen that you run out in the evening. I have worked in bars and part of my job was to get change for the week from the bank. If I was constantly running out of or coming close to running out of a coin I would re-adjust how many bags we get.

If it happens regularly it's bad budgeting by whoever is in charge of floats. It's not like you put the store at risk by carrying a few extra bags of pennies.

Overheal

Shiminay wrote: »

But I was curious, so lets imagine that they have an average of 500 transactions per day (that's possibly quite low, I really have no idea how busy these sorts of places are) that each requires a penny in change which isn't given. That's €5 clear profit per day X 7 days a week = €35 X 52 weeks a year is €1820 X 53 shops (having very quickly counted what's on the map on their website's store locator) = €96460

That's paying 3 people's wages right there.

Out of 53 shops.... and only assuming they gross nearly that many cash transactions per day every day.

Boddah101

maybe that gamestop store just happened to run out of 1 cents that day. these things do happen.

Liam O

Ultimately it's a typical Irish attitude, I hear a lot of people complain that they get too many 1 and 2c coins (work in a supermarket) and people complain when they don't get them either

valleyoftheunos

Overheal wrote: »

Out of 53 shops.... and only assuming they gross nearly that many cash transactions per day every day.

I just read this 500 transactions a day, per store! thats 62 transactions an hour, more than one a minute! if every GS was that busy we wouldn't be having an recession. I'd say its more likely a quarter that figure.

valleyoftheunos

Dermo wrote: »

As I said previously I learnt about this through those threads on boards and other ones I can't find now.
IANAL but if the seller says that's €49.99 and you say here's €50. You are technically making a counter offer. I'm open to being proven wrong (or right )
Now if you were to use the words "I agree. Do you have change of a €50?", obviously that changes things.
We have to remember that these laws were made when shops opened up with very little or no money already in their tills. It's the duty of the buyer to have the correct money to buy something, not the seller to provide change.
I don't agree with it, and believe it should be the other way round.

In fact I am more curious about this now than I've ever been. I'm going to take this to Legal Discussion.

I recently passed my contract law exams so I'm going to weigh in on this:D

when you approach the counter with your game for €49.99, you are making an offer to purchase that game for €49.99, it is now open to the shop worker to accept your offer to purchase or reject it (which, incidentally is why if an item is incorrectly priced on the shop floor they don't have to sell it to you at that price.)

If the shop worker accepts your offer to buy the game for €49.99 a contract for the sale of the game is formed, that is you agree to pay him €49.99 and he agrees to give you ownership of the game. There is now a debt from you to him of €49.99 and if you give him €50 in settlement of that debt (or say €100) the debt is settled but there is no contract relating to the over payment so he is not obliged to give you change.

Obviously no one is going to shop somewhere that doesn't give you change and people don't want to have to carry change to be able to pay for their purchases exactly so shops give change and it really isn't an issue.

So basically in contract law if you over pay someone in settlement of a debt they are not obliged to return the difference and to the best of my knowledge there is no legislation relating to it in a consumer context.

CramCycle

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

If the shop worker accepts your offer to buy the game for €49.99 a contract for the sale of the game is formed, that is you agree to pay him €49.99 and he agrees to give you ownership of the game. There is now a debt from you to him of €49.99 and if you give him €50 in settlement of that debt (or say €100) the debt is settled but there is no contract relating to the over payment so he is not obliged to give you change.

Could you argue that the implied contract contains has implied T&C that you receive the accepted monetary difference along with or just after you receive your goods.

I realise this is one of those pointless pedantic irritations that crops up now and again on boards but I'm just interested.

On a side note, my sister in poorer times was getting a taxi in a rush to the train. The fare was 7e something, she went to give him 10euro but as he took the note he said sorry I have no small change. She took the note back and said "well I can give you a fiver", could he have refused and got away with it? (She got away with paying the fiver but looking back could he actually have legally screwed her out of the change?)

Apologies for going way off topic.

Dermo

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

I recently passed my contract law exams so I'm going to weigh in on this:D

when you approach the counter with your game for €49.99, you are making an offer to purchase that game for €49.99, it is now open to the shop worker to accept your offer to purchase or reject it (which, incidentally is why if an item is incorrectly priced on the shop floor they don't have to sell it to you at that price.)

If the shop worker accepts your offer to buy the game for €49.99 a contract for the sale of the game is formed, that is you agree to pay him €49.99 and he agrees to give you ownership of the game. There is now a debt from you to him of €49.99 and if you give him €50 in settlement of that debt (or say €100) the debt is settled but there is no contract relating to the over payment so he is not obliged to give you change.

Obviously no one is going to shop somewhere that doesn't give you change and people don't want to have to carry change to be able to pay for their purchases exactly so shops give change and it really isn't an issue.

So basically in contract law if you over pay someone in settlement of a debt they are not obliged to return the difference and to the best of my knowledge there is no legislation relating to it in a consumer context.

thanks! and congrats on passing your exams.
Any chance you could weigh in over here too? http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056334760

Didn't want to derail this thread. but again, thanks.

valleyoftheunos

CramCycle wrote: »

Could you argue that the implied contract contains has implied T&C that you receive the accepted monetary difference along with or just after you receive your goods.

You absolutely could argue that the contract of sale contains the implied condition that the shop give you change. I'd imagine that were such a situation ever be the subject of a judicial decision (however unlikely that actually is) that would be the finding.

I realise this is one of those pointless pedantic irritations that crops up now and again on boards but I'm just interested.

On a side note, my sister in poorer times was getting a taxi in a rush to the train. The fare was 7e something, she went to give him 10euro but as he took the note he said sorry I have no small change. She took the note back and said "well I can give you a fiver", could he have refused and got away with it? (She got away with paying the fiver but looking back could he actually have legally screwed her out of the change?)

I'd say that yes he could, she owed him €7, its up to her to pay it and its not his responsibility to provide change (in terms of contract law I mean). I'm amazed he took the fiver though, didn't magically find some change so he could take the full fare;)

Apologies for going way off topic.

Dermo wrote: »

thanks! and congrats on passing your exams.
Any chance you could weigh in over here too? http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056334760

Didn't want to derail this thread. but again, thanks.

Will do.

Azure_sky

Liam O wrote: »

Ultimately it's a typical Irish attitude, I hear a lot of people complain that they get too many 1 and 2c coins (work in a supermarket) and people complain when they don't get them either

I always thought the typical Irish attitude was to berate people who complain about incompetence and rip offs as whiners and then when the crap hits the fan it's too late. Now how did we get in a recession again? :pac:

Notorious

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

The worst thing about disc insurance is it's only there to prey on people who don't know better.

Agreed. But you'd be surprised at the amount of parents/"adults" who try to trade in games that are viciously scratched. They then complain about how they can't get a trade-in for their damaged game or console, for that matter.

jill_valentine

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

In years of gaming I've never had a disc fail on me, be damaged by a machine or damage a machine. I keep them in their boxes when I'm not using them, thats all. I called it a scam because I think its totally unnecessary, the fact that it is available suggests to the uninitiated and those who don't know better that game discs are something in need of insurance as they might fail. As we all know if you don't mistreat them they will be fine.

This forum is mainly used by gamers and folks who take care of their technology, but plenty of dudes keep their machines just to play the odd blu ray or dvd and maybe PES or Fifa with the lads at the weekends with a few beers. And plenty of those dudes don't take care of their machines or their discs, you'd be amazed the state we get people trying to trade stuff in. Lots of folks don't bother putting discs back in cases, and just chuck the discs on the tv unit or floor between use. Machines generally get the brunt of the abuse yeah, lots of PS3's full of booze, but we'd see plenty of discs with cigarette - and uh, "cigarette" - burns on the surface.

"Disc failure" is a euphemistic sidestep, albeit a poor one. If you suggest to a customer that they, or their beloved little darling, might damage the disc themselves, they'll immediately get defensive. Doesn't matter if they're literally raining broken CD shards and wearing their Xbox on their feet, it's just human nature. I've never had to sell disc insurance, but if I did have to, I'd introduce it in a manner along those lines and then suggest that their discs will also be covered for accidental damage, nudge nudge wink wink. It would be the easiest way to broach the subject and then get the details across, without getting anybody's back up.

That said, the exact people you just know would need insurance probably wouldn't ever buy it. I did used to sell console cover. We had customers buy brand new DSs over and over and over and over because Little Jimmy kept hopping it off the ground in temper or dropping it into the bath, and they were the exact ones who'd make a big song and dance about how insulted they were by what we were "implying". :rolleyes:

Grayditch

Totally forgot to bring this up with them yesterday. I was owed 2c and they didn't even acknowledge it. I was in a rush and only realised when I got home.

CramCycle

Grayditch wrote: »

Totally forgot to bring this up with them yesterday. I was owed 2c and they didn't even acknowledge it. I was in a rush and only realised when I got home.

Legally you should have asked for an IOU, not sure if you have a leg to stand on now :P

Zillah

astrofool wrote: »

Look up invitation to treat, change is not a right, it's a courtesy afforded to customers who don't have the exact change, all shops follow it, but you have no legal right to change in payment of a debt.

As has been mentioned in the legal discussion thread, by approaching the counter with an item you are making an offer to purchase it at the displayed price. The giving of change is a necessary provision of the contract; we cannot complete the contract as agreed without change.

They're not obliged to give change in the sense that they are not obliged to enter the contract at all, but that's it.

Additionally, even if the exchange of change is a separate issue, it is so common place that it is clearly an implied element of the contract.

TheDoc

Just another reason to the long list of reasons not to go near Gamestop, yet people still shop there.

I skipped two pages off this thread, but just to point there is no legal obligation for a retailer to provide change.

Them not arranging for a change drop off, like any good retailer does through their collectors, is another reason not to go near them.

Epic sh*t c**ts .....

Mr Trade In

If the game costs €19.99 buy a €20 gift card, next purchase top up the same card, repeat each time and you get your extra cent every time.

Gran Hermano

Anyone care to advise from a legal viewpoint whether I can demand cancellation of the purchase and a full refund if they do not provide the correct change?

Maybe if enough people hand back their purchases and the staff have to process a full refund it might prompt the corporate HQ to revise their policy around not having change in the tills.

ShadowHearth

lads... honestly.... its a 5 page rant about missing 1 cent...


are you freaking FOR REAL?! most of the times i feel like a dick, by waiting for that 1cent in any shop. i really dont think gamestop is doing it to scam you all.

i havent bought a game for cash in years. i allways use laser. i will soon forget how cash looks... :rolleyes:



sorry, but this thread just belongs in " cheap bastord " thread in After hours subforum.

CramCycle

ShadowHearth wrote: »

i havent bought a game for cash in years. i allways use laser. i will soon forget how cash looks... :rolleyes:

Places still accept laser? :pac: Now who is behind the times

ShadowHearth

CramCycle wrote: »

Places still accept laser? :pac: Now who is behind the times

Mance Rayder

Cough * Torrent* cough cough

CramCycle

ShadowHearth wrote: »

I was only joking, laser is failing at the minute as most of the institutions who backed it are pulling out, you mocked cash because it is "dated" but at least every bricks and mortar retailer will take it unlike laser.

I guess the backers are pulling out mainly because alot of online retailers don't accept it (huge issue for me and one of the reasons I was glad my bank started offering Visa Debit).

valleyoftheunos

CramCycle wrote: »

I was only joking, laser is failing at the minute as most of the institutions who backed it are pulling out, you mocked cash because it is "dated" but at least every bricks and mortar retailer will take it unlike laser.

I guess the backers are pulling out mainly because alot of online retailers don't accept it (huge issue for me and one of the reasons I was glad my bank started offering Visa Debit).

Hadn't heard this or seen anywhere that doesn't take laser.

When I moved back from the UK about 5 years ago I asked my Bank for a Visa Debit like I'd had over there and they looked at me like I had two heads, glad to hear they are finally catching on.

Overheal

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

Hadn't heard this or seen anywhere that doesn't take laser.

When I moved back from the UK about 5 years ago I asked my Bank for a Visa Debit like I'd had over there and they looked at me like I had two heads, glad to hear they are finally catching on.

Ireland's banks are ****ing weird, I dont understand laser, or why they cant just issue Debit cards with a chequing account like a normal bank. Instead you get a useless ATM card and then the hell with you.

CramCycle

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

Hadn't heard this or seen anywhere that doesn't take laser.

When I moved back from the UK about 5 years ago I asked my Bank for a Visa Debit like I'd had over there and they looked at me like I had two heads, glad to hear they are finally catching on.

Halifax now offer Visa debit as first choice (possibly no longer support laser at all, I am unsure). Ulster bank, permanent TSB and BOI definitely do Visa Debit now and AFAIK no longer support Laser (although BOI are only phasing it out recently so maybe people still have them). AIB supposedly pulled the plug on support for laser this month leaving only NIB AFAIK.

I always had issues with laser purchases online, even from Irish websites (some even claimed to support but could never get it working consistently, just search for a few of the threads).

The joke about some bricks and mortar shops and laser was that some shops don't take cards at all still (so I was kind of bending the issue here:P) so cash will always be there if your in the back arse of nowhere.

valleyoftheunos

CramCycle wrote: »

Halifax now offer Visa debit as first choice (possibly no longer support laser at all, I am unsure). Ulster bank, permanent TSB and BOI definitely do Visa Debit now and AFAIK no longer support Laser (although BOI are only phasing it out recently so maybe people still have them). AIB supposedly pulled the plug on support for laser this month leaving only NIB AFAIK.

I always had issues with laser purchases online, even from Irish websites (some even claimed to support but could never get it working consistently, just search for a few of the threads).

The joke about some bricks and mortar shops and laser was that some shops don't take cards at all still (so I was kind of bending the issue here:P) so cash will always be there if your in the back arse of nowhere.

Cant find any mention of this on AIB or BOI's websites, both still saying they issue laser cards. Last year I asked BOI about a VISA card and was told they only do mastercard. I'm well aware that online retailers don't accept Laser but in my experience any retail store that takes cards will accept Laser.

A VISA debit would suit me much better but Laser is linked to Cirrus and Maestro so its not totaly useless.