Ferrybank Shopping Centre - Again

pueblo

Yes Boss wrote: »

It was in complete breach of the National Retail Strategy developed by the Department of Environment and implemented by the Local Authorities. However, for some strange reason Kilkenny County Council broke those rules to allow this development to go ahead. An absolutely ignorant decision!

This is the crux of the matter. It was these sort of planning decisions that lead to the whole country now being heavily oversupplied with retail space.

In case people haven't noticed retailers are contracting not expanding, the cake has gotten smaller. The only question is where do you want the tumbleweed.....the city centre or Ferrybank?

Sucking business out of the city centre to out of town developments made no sense 10 years ago and makes even less sense now.

Digital Society

pueblo wrote: »

This is the crux of the matter. It was these sort of planning decisions that lead to the whole country now being heavily oversupplied with retail space.

In case people haven't noticed retailers are contracting not expanding, the cake has gotten smaller. The only question is where do you want the tumbleweed.....the city centre or Ferrybank?

Sucking business out of the city centre to out of town developments made no sense 10 years ago and makes even less sense now.

How does it make no sense? So unless you live in the middle of the city you're not entitled to a few shops.

Why should everyone have to go into the city and pay extortionate parking fees just to do a bit of shopping?

Yes Boss

Digital Society wrote: »

How does it make no sense? So unless you live in the middle of the city you're not entitled to a few shops.

Why should everyone have to go into the city and pay extortionate parking fees just to do a bit of shopping?

You have made the argument there yourself. We either collectively work together to create something bigger and better or we selfishly expect every shop every service on our front door and water down the whole. Reducing the strength of the centre reduces the quality of the overall service, product offering etc. It is a self fulfilling prophecy really!

Digital Society

Yes Boss wrote: »

You have made the argument there yourself. We either collectively work together to create something bigger and better or we selfishly expect every shop every service on our front door and water down the whole. Reducing the strength of the centre reduces the quality of the overall service, product offering etc. It is a self fulfilling prophecy really!

Seems like favouritism to me. So your saying we shut down any shop that threatens the half assed overpriced businesses in town?

Im sure then the really good business people in town will LOWER prices when theres no competition and it will really benefit the consumer. And then i suppose we will blame Kilkenny for some reason if it doesnt wok.

Oh and all the overpricing is the businessowners way of working as a collective group is it? Paying way more than even big cities for Parking is there side of the deal is it? What are they doing to deserve the favouritism?

fiachr_a

What Waterford needs to do its shut down the internet! Be the first 'no tech Irish region'. Everyone will need to buy stuff from their local shops. Have checkpoints on M9 and all W-reg cars travelling to the city should be checked for goods. Anyone found shopping in Kilkenny should pay a special Waterford Tax.

robtri

Yes Boss wrote: »

It was in complete breach of the National Retail Strategy developed by the Department of Environment and implemented by the Local Authorities. However, for some strange reason Kilkenny County Council broke those rules to allow this development to go ahead. An absolutely ignorant decision!

no it wasn't....
The National Retail Strategy allows for sites like this based on the Spatial projections....

Deise67

robtri wrote: »

no it wasn't....
The National Retail Strategy allows for sites like this based on the Spatial projections....

yeah it was a fantastic idea , showed great forward planning, hats off to kk council really nailed it !

Digital Society

Deise67 wrote: »

yeah it was a fantastic idea , showed great forward planning, hats off to kk council really nailed it !

I suppose you knew the recession was coming and gonna be so severe.

Why didnt you tell anyone so we could all plan ahead?

Deise67

Digital Society wrote: »

I suppose you knew the recession was coming and gonna be so severe.

Why didnt you tell anyone so we could all plan ahead?

no I didn't unfortunately but I kinda though when a 3 bed semi in an estate started to hit 300k maybe all wasn't well but that was at the bar in Mullers paying 6.50 for a bottle of cider so didn't really count , also as regards building a shopping center or two think abbey park (cos one monstrosity wouldn't be enough ) didn't plan on leeching footfall from a neighboring county to keep my pet projects afloat ! better stick to the hurling ! cos fwd planning isn't their forte ! just to lay my cards on the table if ya think I'm anti kk , write it down I am ! just think of Ireland's first rollercoaster that was the trip to Waterford through mulnvagas ! kk council did their best to make the trip south east as painful as possible for as long as possible !

robtri

Deise67 wrote: »

no I didn't unfortunately but I kinda though when a 3 bed semi in an estate started to hit 300k maybe all wasn't well but that was at the bar in Mullers paying 6.50 for a bottle of cider so didn't really count , also as regards building a shopping center or two think abbey park (cos one monstrosity wouldn't be enough ) didn't plan on leeching footfall from a neighboring county to keep my pet projects afloat ! better stick to the hurling ! cos fwd planning isn't their forte ! just to lay my cards on the table if ya think I'm anti kk , write it down I am ! just think of Ireland's first rollercoaster that was the trip to Waterford through mulnvagas ! kk council did their best to make the trip south east as painful as possible for as long as possible !

Yawn,
The tired ould waterford whinge, its not our fault its somebodies elses.

And before u think it, i am not a KK person

Leeching footfall? Well if waterford was so grand it wouldnt be a problem as everyone would stay in waterford
What about the residents of ferrybank? A kk place are they not entitled to services?
And its ok for waterford to have them come from kk to shop?

There not allowed take our footfall, but we will gladly take theres

Digital Society

What is it that makes Waterford people so jealous of people from KK? Seems to be just the older generation though. Did something happen back in the 80s to cause it or what? Constant blinding jealousy that just stop the place from progressing and seeing the reality. Why not Wexford, Tipperary, Cork and Carlow? Ive spent way more in Cork and Tipp than i ever did in KK.

7upfree

Digital Society wrote: »

What is it that makes Waterford people so jealous of people from KK?

Was it last year that a lady living in Ferrybank said on local radio that she would not "support Waterford" and does all her shopping in Kilkenny?

It is quite the opposite my friend. What, exactly, would we have to be "jealous" about? Precisely?:)

7upfree

robtri wrote: »

There not allowed take our footfall, but we will gladly take theres

But we are not dependant on it. Big difference.

Yes Boss

Digital Society wrote: »

What is it that makes Waterford people so jealous of people from KK? Seems to be just the older generation though. Did something happen back in the 80s to cause it or what? Constant blinding jealousy that just stop the place from progressing and seeing the reality. Why not Wexford, Tipperary, Cork and Carlow? Ive spent way more in Cork and Tipp than i ever did in KK.

It's not jealousy. It's bemusement at the complete ignorance regarding a strong civic/economic centre due to hurling allegiances (small minded mentality). Old Ireland is over. Wake up and smell the roses! The people of South Kilkenny, work, shop and socialise in Waterford. A strong Waterford benefits everyone in the Region, including the people from South Kilkenny. In reality South Kilkenny should be managed by Waterford City due to the aforementioned proximity.

Digital Society

7upfree wrote: »

Was it last year that a lady living in Ferrybank said on local radio that she would not "support Waterford" and does all her shopping in Kilkenny?

It is quite the opposite my friend. What, exactly, would we have to be "jealous" about? Precisely?:)

For example if you visit the KK forum here there not a mention of WD in every thread but here it always boils down to something KK did. So your saying 1 person last year said they support KK instead of WD yet every second person in WD says that in every thread here.

That would lead me to believe that the undermining reason is in fact Jealousy. usually if a person keeps on mentioning another person at every single opportunity its a Jealousy thing.

When you say the opposite do you mean that its actually KK that are jealous of WD?

robtri

7upfree wrote: »

But we are not dependant on it. Big difference.

Thats not KK's fault or problem, they tried to provide services to people who live in Ferrybank...

pueblo

Digital Society wrote: »

Seems like favouritism to me. So your saying we shut down any shop that threatens the half assed overpriced businesses in town?

Im sure then the really good business people in town will LOWER prices when theres no competition and it will really benefit the consumer. And then i suppose we will blame Kilkenny for some reason if it doesnt wok.

Oh and all the overpricing is the businessowners way of working as a collective group is it? Paying way more than even big cities for Parking is there side of the deal is it? What are they doing to deserve the favouritism?

Of course small independent business owners need to improve their offer and competitiveness but if you shift all the business out of town then they won't be around long enough to evolve.

On the 'price fixing' allegation I don't see it. It's simple economies of scale, the smaller independent business is working from a higher cost base hence the higher mark-up and price.

Yes parking is a huge problem and needs to be addressed in most places.

The question is do we really want all our retail to be in out of town identikit shopping centres?

In the US large suburban shopping centres are on the demise, this is in tandem with a rise in the revitalisation of some town/city centres led mainly by small independent start ups. Rent/Rate levels currently prevent this from happening here.

Professey Chin

Digital Society wrote: »

For example if you visit the KK forum here there not a mention of WD in every thread but here it always boils down to something KK did. So your saying 1 person last year said they support KK instead of WD yet every second person in WD says that in every thread here.

That would lead me to believe that the undermining reason is in fact Jealousy. usually if a person keeps on mentioning another person at every single opportunity its a Jealousy thing.

When you say the opposite do you mean that its actually KK that are jealous of WD?

The WD/KK thing stops around Thomastown. After that nobody cares.

Theres no real jealousy but there is an issue with the boundary. In anywhere that has common sense the city would extend both sides of the river but parochial boundary issues stop this here! Theres absolutely no logic to it

robtri

Yes Boss wrote: »

It's not jealousy. It's bemusement at the complete ignorance regarding a strong civic/economic centre due to hurling allegiances (small minded mentality). Old Ireland is over. Wake up and smell the roses! The people of South Kilkenny, work, shop and socialise in Waterford. A strong Waterford benefits everyone in the Region, including the people from South Kilkenny. In reality South Kilkenny should be managed by Waterford City due to the aforementioned proximity.

So should areas like lismore co waterford, be looked after by cork? Well its nearer to cork places and a lot of people there i am sure work in cork areas, shop in cork areas etc...

I do strongly agree thou, that a strong waterford will benefit all hugely and that should be a common goal, but likewise people in south kilkenny are entitled to services just as much as people from waterford.

Waterford needs to concentrate on building its own city centre and attracting footfall, instead of sitting around crying into a cup of tea about how badly they are treated.

padraig.od

they should incorporate the city into Kilkenny proper. Problem solved.

wellboytoo

padraig.od wrote: »

they should incorporate the city into Kilkenny proper. Problem solved.

Maybe temper that by letting Waterford City provide the services within the ORR but let it remain part of KK to placate the nay sayers?
This would eliminate rates grabbing that happened with this shopping centre and give decent services to the area.

BBM77

robtri wrote: »

No these shops and premises in waterford city are empty, same as ferrybank sc

In 2011 the population had grown to nearly 5,500
The NSS, national spatial strategy only ever predicted ferrybank to have a poplutaion by 2020 of 6500.
10000 was spoutted by who?

No shops in Waterford city are empty because businesses went out of business due to the recession and other reasons. Shops that are viable and of interest to other businesses are taken again by other businesses. For example, Awear closed and New Look has taken the premises, Kellys closed and Dywers (I think they are called) has taken the premises, Pennies has expanded into two premises next to them, City Square plan to do work there. This is very different to what is happening in the Ferrybank SC. It has never been taken up and in fact Dunnes paid millions instead of going in there. What you wrote is a false comparison.

10000 was the figure stated at the time but for argument sake let’s say it grew to the 5500 or 6500 neither is enough to justify the Ferrybank SC. If 6500 was enough to sustain a SC the size of the Ferrybank SC towns the size of Tramore all over the country would have them.

BBM77

Digital Society wrote: »

As someone whos lived beside the site it for years i agree.

Ah, this is it, because you live beside its sound. Nonsense, because you live beside it it suits. There is a big difference.

The Bowling Alley

BBM77 wrote: »

No shops in Waterford city are empty because businesses went out of business due to the recession and other reasons. Shops that are viable and of interest to other businesses are taken again by other businesses. For example, Awear closed and New Look has taken the premises, Kellys closed and Dywers (I think they are called) has taken the premises, Pennies has expanded into two premises next to them, City Square plan to do work there. This is very different to what is happening in the Ferrybank SC. It has never been taken up and in fact Dunnes paid millions instead of going in there. What you wrote is a false comparison.

10000 was the figure stated at the time but for argument sake let’s say it grew to the 5500 or 6500 neither is enough to justify the Ferrybank SC. If 6500 was enough to sustain a SC the size of the Ferrybank SC towns the size of Tramore all over the country would have them.

New Look didn't take AWear.

This is one of those horrible situations where I agree with just about everyone. It's mad "Kilkenny People" are a stone's throw away from Waterford City...but that's just how it is.

Ferrybank has fallen between two stools and I don't think it will every be a priority for anyone. The Shopping Centre should never have been given the go ahead, and money definitely changed hands in the lead up to that decision. That being said, the plans at the time were to build a couple of thousand more houses over in this way so their projections, although ambitious, were extremely ambitious.

It's such a shame to see it as it is now.

7upfree

Yes Boss wrote: »

It's not jealousy. It's bemusement at the complete ignorance regarding a strong civic/economic centre due to hurling allegiances (small minded mentality). Old Ireland is over. Wake up and smell the roses! The people of South Kilkenny, work, shop and socialise in Waterford. A strong Waterford benefits everyone in the Region, including the people from South Kilkenny. In reality South Kilkenny should be managed by Waterford City due to the aforementioned proximity.

Very well said. But will be prevented because of a gob****e GAA mentality.

sunnysoutheast

7upfree wrote: »

Very well said. But will be prevented because of a gob****e GAA mentality.

It was only a couple of years ago that I was talking to somebody from Ferrybank and they actively didn't want any new jobs to go to Waterford, they would rather they went to Limerick or Galway or anywhere else. The mentality just bemused me, I would see a significant jobs announcement for WD, KK, WX, CW as a win for the South East as a whole.

It's a pity that the shopping centre is a white elephant, perhaps it could be converted for other uses. I can't see it ever opening, particularly if Newgate gets built.

Professey Chin

7upfree wrote: »

Very well said. But will be prevented because of a gob****e GAA mentality.

And its even funnier since we'd have to extend the boundary at least 20km before it made a blind bit of difference to either team :pac:

BBM77

The Bowling Alley wrote: »

New Look didn't take AWear.

This is one of those horrible situations where I agree with just about everyone. It's mad "Kilkenny People" are a stone's throw away from Waterford City...but that's just how it is.

Ferrybank has fallen between two stools and I don't think it will every be a priority for anyone. The Shopping Centre should never have been given the go ahead, and money definitely changed hands in the lead up to that decision. That being said, the plans at the time were to build a couple of thousand more houses over in this way so their projections, although ambitious, were extremely ambitious.

It's such a shame to see it as it is now.

I don’t care who is going in there, someone is that’s all that matters.

The population projections were all wishy-washy aspirational stuff there was nothing concrete to justify the building of such a shopping centre and its long term sustainability.

Digital Society

BBM77 wrote: »

Ah, this is it, because you live beside its sound. Nonsense, because you live beside it it suits. There is a big difference.

Get down off your high horse. If anything my point is more valid that i witnessed first hand the way Ferrybank was expanding it made sense.

just admit that the reason Waterford City is so ****e is because its full of a bunch of half assed greedy business people and nothing to do with Kilkenny or whoever the excuse of the day is. Absolute bunch of whingers blaming all their problem on everything but themselves.

wmpdd3

As I can see this building form my house, I have grown to like it, I hate its position so close to the road, 25 meters back from the road would make it less imposing.

The design of the shopping center at Abbey Park would have been perfect for the location of the Ferrybank shopping center. As it is, it is way too big.

I don't think we'll ever see it opened as a comparable shopping experience. The front would really only suit a car shown room, the dimensions are so large. There must be 40 units in there. Really a Lidl would be enough for the catchment area.

I would really hate to see it knocked, it is a beautiful building.