Ferrybank Shopping Centre - Again

BBM77

Digital Society wrote: »

Get down off your high horse. If anything my point is more valid that i witnessed first hand the way Ferrybank was expanding it made sense.

just admit that the reason Waterford City is so ****e is because its full of a bunch of half assed greedy business people and nothing to do with Kilkenny or whoever the excuse of the day is. Absolute bunch of whingers blaming all their problem on everything but themselves.

Oh your point is more valid is it? So what is your point exactly? You have not written anything other than simpleton I’m right you’re just wrong crap with nothing to support it.

P.S. For the record I never said the city centre was perfect.

Digital Society

BBM77 wrote: »

Oh your point is more valid is it? So what is your point exactly? You have not written anything other than simpleton I’m right you’re just wrong crap with nothing to support it.

P.S. For the record I never said the city centre was perfect.

No your right. I apologise. lets just favour the crappy businesses in town that make only a half assed effort to attract the market. They did a great job so far of putting Waterford on the Map.

Your right its not perfect. Its actually awful. embarrassingly awful.

BBM77

Digital Society wrote: »

No your right. I apologise. lets just favour the crappy businesses in town that make only a half assed effort to attract the market. They did a great job so far of putting Waterford on the Map.

Your right its not perfect. Its actually awful. embarrassingly awful.

You have nothing to add to this discussion other than negative small-minded drivel at its worst.

fricatus

Digital Society wrote: »

Get down off your high horse. If anything my point is more valid that i witnessed first hand the way Ferrybank was expanding it made sense.

just admit that the reason Waterford City is so ****e is because its full of a bunch of half assed greedy business people and nothing to do with Kilkenny or whoever the excuse of the day is. Absolute bunch of whingers blaming all their problem on everything but themselves.

Digital Society wrote: »

No your right. I apologise. lets just favour the crappy businesses in town that make only a half assed effort to attract the market. They did a great job so far of putting Waterford on the Map.

Your right its not perfect. Its actually awful. embarrassingly awful.

I'm sorry, but what utter, utter nonsense. I could list the positive developments going on in the city centre (the latest in a long list being the New Street Gardens which the President visited on Friday).

However I'm guessing you'd still have the same negative, dismissive attitude if we replicated Times Square on Ballybricken. :rolleyes:

wellboytoo

Digital Society wrote: »

No your right. I apologise. lets just favour the crappy businesses in town that make only a half assed effort to attract the market. They did a great job so far of putting Waterford on the Map.

Your right its not perfect. Its actually awful. embarrassingly awful.

On a quick glance of some of your previous posts you have a very negative attitude to WFD , I suppose there is a reason for this but not very logical, get out and get some sun on the Killkenny beaches and enjoy yourself boi , it will make life seem more bearable.

Digital Society

wellboytoo wrote: »

On a quick glance of some of your previous posts you have a very negative attitude to WFD , I suppose there is a reason for this but not very logical, get out and get some sun on the Killkenny beaches and enjoy yourself boi , it will make life seem more bearable.

It wouldnt make sense if i changed my opinion everyday

Also i wouldnt say its negative to WFD in general just the way people go on about the town. Doing the same things over and over and over and expecting different results.

Trying to attract people into it to get a boost for the City yet the parking fees are a disgrace. The really ****ty derelict buildings on the way into Waterford are a disgrace. The lack of shop selection to attract people is a disgrace. Yet people blame Kilkenny for people not being attracted for some reason. You ask someone from Cork or any other place why they would visit Waterford City and you'll get a confused head looking back.

But because im on the other side of the brdge i cant have an opinion. I have to be from out the Dunmore Road with the other high horses to give an input.

wellboytoo

Digital Society wrote: »

It wouldnt make sense if i changed my opinion everyday
The really ****ty derelict buildings on the way into Waterford are a disgrace.

But because im on the other side of the brdge i cant have an opinion. I have to be from out the Dunmore Road with the other high horses to give an input.

just admit that the reason Waterford City is so ****e is because its full of a bunch of half assed greedy business people


lets just favour the crappy businesses in town that make only a half assed effort to attract the market. They did a great job so far of putting Waterford on the Map.

Your right its not perfect. Its actually awful. embarrassingly awful.


Yeah great place to work. Thriving economy it is.

Sorry i was miles off. Your right. Every 2nd thread in the Waterford city section is wrong. Waterford is a really great place to get work.

The above just a small selection of your recent posts! do you notice a trend? An opinion is one thing, its like the saying, " Religion is like a penis , grand on your own but when you start waving it in peoples faces that's when the trouble kicks off"!

What we are talking about on this thread is a very large mistake made by a developer/ his banks/ killkenny planning department, in that order, nothing else, no parochial jealousy, you are introducing that element.
I don't think anyone in their right mind could gainsay that the Ferrybank shopping centre was a huge mistake, it needs to be fixed and opening it as is , is a non starter, because it would need a footfall of 100 k people per day just to wash it's face, that doesn't exist in the south east, if we start from there what can be done?
Am I wrong in the above?

Digital Society

wellboytoo wrote: »

What we are talking about on this thread is a very large mistake made by a developer/ his banks/ killkenny planning department, in that order, nothing else, no parochial jealousy, you are introducing that element.
I don't think anyone in their right mind could gainsay that the Ferrybank shopping centre was a huge mistake, it needs to be fixed and opening it as is , is a non starter, because it would need a footfall of 100 k people per day just to wash it's face, that doesn't exist in the south east, if we start from there what can be done?
Am I wrong in the above?

Hindsight is a great thing. We all knew the recession was coming all of a sudden after the fact.

Now we realise its a mistake but back in the boom times if things kept on the up and the ghost estates where filled it would have survived.

Also dont even try suggest that its me who started with Kilkenny nonsense on this forum.

taytobreath

Digital Society wrote: »

Hindsight is a great thing. We all knew the recession was coming all of a sudden after the fact.

Now we realise its a mistake but back in the boom times if things kept on the up and the ghost estates where filled it would have survived.

Also dont even try suggest that its me who started with Kilkenny nonsense on this forum.

Try be bit more positive, its proven to make you live longer you know

wellboytoo

Digital Society wrote: »

Hindsight is a great thing. We all knew the recession was coming all of a sudden after the fact.

Now we realise its a mistake but back in the boom times if things kept on the up and the ghost estates where filled it would have survived.

Also dont even try suggest that its me who started with Kilkenny nonsense on this forum.

It would not have been ok, that's where your totally wrong, the numbers never stacked up. ever, it was greed of the highest order, This is too big if it was in the Brewery site in the Centre of Waterford City never mind on the outskirts, thats the problem you are choosing to ignore, the recession was the final nail, but it was never going to open anyway.
Margaret Heffernan said of it, at a board meeting of Dunnes "if you think I'm putting more of this companies money into a store in Killkenny when we are losing our shirt there already, you have another thing coming"
The other store being Mc Donagh junction, so don't go making wild asides that it would be grand only for the recession,it wouldn't it was a crock the day it left the drawing table.

Digital Society

wellboytoo wrote: »

It would not have been ok, that's where your totally wrong, the numbers never stacked up. ever, it was greed of the highest order, This is too big if it was in the Brewery site in the Centre of Waterford City never mind on the outskirts, thats the problem you are choosing to ignore, the recession was the final nail, but it was never going to open anyway.
Margaret Heffernan said of it, at a board meeting of Dunnes "if you think I'm putting more of this companies money into a store in Killkenny when we are losing our shirt there already, you have another thing coming"
The other store being Mc Donagh junction, so don't go making wild asides that it would be grand only for the recession,it wouldn't it was a crock the day it left the drawing table.

Dunnes wouldnt attract Jack **** to Waterford and would have died on the spot. Aldi in the there rather than down the road would have been successful. Aldi where only beginning to wipe the floor with the ripoff Dunnes, Tesco and SuperQuinn at that stage. Aldi and a good range of other small shops would have survived by attracting people down to it. Dunnes is rubbish.

wellboytoo

Digital Society wrote: »

Dunnes wouldnt attract Jack **** to Waterford and would have died on the spot. Aldi in the there rather than down the road would have been successful. Aldi where only beginning to wipe the floor with the ripoff Dunnes, Tesco and SuperQuinn at that stage. Aldi and a good range of other small shops would have survived by attracting people down to it. Dunnes is rubbish.

I ask you Straight question and you come back with an opinion on the choice of retailer you want to go in there???
You are not here to debate obviously just to ram your opinion home, ok I'm done.

7upfree

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

It was only a couple of years ago that I was talking to somebody from Ferrybank and they actively didn't want any new jobs to go to Waterford, they would rather they went to Limerick or Galway or anywhere else. The mentality just bemused me, I would see a significant jobs announcement for WD, KK, WX, CW as a win for the South East as a whole.

It's a pity that the shopping centre is a white elephant, perhaps it could be converted for other uses. I can't see it ever opening, particularly if Newgate gets built.

Unfortunately that mentality is prevalent in quite a sizeable number of people in parts of Ferrybank. As i said already - a GAA gob****e mentality.

A strong and vibrant Waterford City is vital to the whole area. Pity their heads are for far up their own asses.

sunnysoutheast

7upfree wrote: »

Unfortunate that mentality is prevalent in quite a sizeable number of people in parts of ferry bank. As i said already - a GAA gob****e mentality.

A strong and vibrant Waterford City is vital to the whole area. Pity their heads are for far up their own asses.

To be honest I haven't found it universal by any means, I know quite a few people who grew up in Ferrybank and rural South KK and they don't have that view. I was just very surprised when the "...anywhere but Waterford" came out. The same person also deliberately bought a new car in Kildare (I think) so as to avoid buying it in Waterford. Very strange.

7upfree

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

To be honest I haven't found it universal by any means, I know quite a few people who grew up in Ferrybank and rural South KK and they don't have that view. I was just very surprised when the "...anywhere but Waterford" came out. The same person also deliberately bought a new car in Kildare (I think) so as to avoid buying it in Waterford. Very strange.

So very childish really. But representative of a cross section of South KK people. Will earn their living in Waterford. Have their kids educated in Waterford. But will not have a good word to say about it. And will not support it. A very strange mentality indeed.

Nypd

It's laughable that anyone on this thread can say the FB shopping centre is not a mistake.

Speak Now

Ah sure we all know these nut jobs, I know a neighbor of mine wouldn't buy a car because it was a KK reg even though it was the car he wanted at the price he was happy with from a Waterford garage. Bought the same car in Wexford instead, very strange indeed.

Digital Society

Nypd wrote: »

It's laughable that anyone on this thread can say the FB shopping centre is not a mistake.

I think we need to differentiate here. My opinion is that if Aldi went in there with a few decent clothes shops, that would have attracted women from other counties it would have been good. Other people are assuming that i meant open it up with Dunnes stores and god knows what else.

I think what Waterford needs a place that thinks outside the box. Something that will make people from Tipp, KK , Carlow and Cork say they wouldn't mind the trip down. This is what i was thinking - http://www.fashioncity.ie/.

Women from all over Ireland travel to that and bring either groups of Women or their family with them. Businesses up there are doing extremely well for themselves.

But as usual it comes down to begrudgery and narrow mindedness and god forbid something competes with the City.

fricatus

Digital Society wrote: »

Women from all over Ireland travel to that and bring either groups of Women or their family with them. Businesses up there are doing extremely well for themselves.

I can see where you're coming from on this, but that appears to be a niche-type B2B operation that is mainly set up around organising events. Something like that does not have the potential to undermine Waterford city centre though. Something like the Ferrybank centre on the other hand does.

Digital Society wrote: »

But as usual it comes down to begrudgery and narrow mindedness and god forbid something competes with the City.

No, it's nothing to do with "begrudgery and narrow mindedness". Quite the opposite. The people in charge of planning in Waterford are well aware of the mistakes that have been allowed to occur elsewhere, primarily the USA, but to a lesser extent in the UK, and want to make sure the same does not happen here.

Countless towns and cities in the States have been hollowed out by mega malls. I was in Erie, PA, which is about the same size as Cork, and just as you would not believe the size of the Millcreek Mall, you would not believe how empty the downtown area is of shops. "It destroyed Downtown" is how one man put it to me. All that's there is public buildings, theatres, a few offices and the odd McDonald's and Starbucks. There are fine old buildings but unfortunately little in the line of streetlife or atmosphere that I could see.

Pittsburgh is a big city, probably between 1.5 times and twice the size of Dublin. Yet there is no branch of Abercrombie and Fitch in the downtown area. There are several in the metro area, all in malls. That's just an example of one retailer, but the same goes for nearly every chain store.

Waterford is not some sort of special place, where the rules of geography and economics are somehow suspended. The "doughnut effect" is well documented. If it has happened in Erie, Pittsburgh, Dudley, Gateshead, and in countless other places, then it will surely happen here if we follow the same policies.

The question then is not "will a big out-of-town shopping centre ruin our city centre?" but rather "do we want a big out-of-town shopping centre to ruin our city centre?"

fiachr_a

fricatus wrote: »

The question then is not "will a big out-of-town shopping centre ruin our city centre?" but rather "do we want a big out-of-town shopping centre to ruin our city centre?"

The city centre is already ruined and won't come back. The only way to create regular visitors is to move the dole office to Red Square.

robtri

fricatus wrote: »

I can see where you're coming from on this, but that appears to be a niche-type B2B operation that is mainly set up around organising events. Something like that does not have the potential to undermine Waterford city centre though. Something like the Ferrybank centre on the other hand does.




No, it's nothing to do with "begrudgery and narrow mindedness". Quite the opposite. The people in charge of planning in Waterford are well aware of the mistakes that have been allowed to occur elsewhere, primarily the USA, but to a lesser extent in the UK, and want to make sure the same does not happen here.

Countless towns and cities in the States have been hollowed out by mega malls. I was in Erie, PA, which is about the same size as Cork, and just as you would not believe the size of the Millcreek Mall, you would not believe how empty the downtown area is of shops. "It destroyed Downtown" is how one man put it to me. All that's there is public buildings, theatres, a few offices and the odd McDonald's and Starbucks. There are fine old buildings but unfortunately little in the line of streetlife or atmosphere that I could see.

Pittsburgh is a big city, probably between 1.5 times and twice the size of Dublin. Yet there is no branch of Abercrombie and Fitch in the downtown area. There are several in the metro area, all in malls. That's just an example of one retailer, but the same goes for nearly every chain store.

Waterford is not some sort of special place, where the rules of geography and economics are somehow suspended. The "doughnut effect" is well documented. If it has happened in Erie, Pittsburgh, Dudley, Gateshead, and in countless other places, then it will surely happen here if we follow the same policies.

The question then is not "will a big out-of-town shopping centre ruin our city centre?" but rather "do we want a big out-of-town shopping centre to ruin our city centre?"

well aware of what mega malls have done is great... pity then there plan hasnt worked... lets be honest the city centre is a disaster.

and if they where aware, how did big tesco stores get planning outside the city centre. how did butlerstown park get permission. or the one up the cork road (never got built, but was granted planning)...

Waterford council have been hampered by locals objecting to developments, in the city.... and then the locals complain when the city is a on its knees.


if all it takes to completely destroy the city centre is one shopping centre outside the city... then its already too late for the city...

The sheer arrogence to suggest that... no no u kilkenny people cant have services in your area.. but please continue to come into our city and do your shopping...

Lets be honest, if the shopping centre had taken off, it would have been a large food provider and a few small shops....
so in the city one crappy as hell dunnes stores and a ****hole of a tesco would have been effected...

As it is empty, it has no bearing on the city, so why the animosity towards it?
as it is not hurting anyone.

Digital Society

robtri wrote: »

The sheer arrogence to suggest that... no no u kilkenny people cant have services in your area.. but please continue to come into our city and do your shopping...

Not a word said about the Ardkeen Stores, Tesco and Ballinakill SC yet imagine how many Dunmore Road big spenders head out there rather than the City. I wonder why?

fricatus

robtri wrote: »

and if they where aware, how did big tesco stores get planning outside the city centre. how did butlerstown park get permission. or the one up the cork road (never got built, but was granted planning)...

Butlerstown park got permission because it was in the county council area, and to a certain extent because it wasn't in direct competition with the city centre. You'll remember that TK Maxx had to move out because their business was of a type that would only be permitted in the centre.

robtri wrote: »

Waterford council have been hampered by locals objecting to developments, in the city.... and then the locals complain when the city is a on its knees.

Can't disagree with you there, but two wrongs don't make a right!

robtri wrote: »

if all it takes to completely destroy the city centre is one shopping centre outside the city... then its already too late for the city...

What a ridiculous comment. You clearly have no understanding of the doughnut effect and how it has worked worldwide.

robtri wrote: »

The sheer arrogence to suggest that... no no u kilkenny people cant have services in your area.. but please continue to come into our city and do your shopping...

Waterford City Council were never against a neighbourhood centre providing adequate services for a population of 5,000. The objection was to the largest shopping centre in the south-east, which was designed to compete directly with the city centre. Not appropriate for a suburb of 5,000, sorry!

robtri wrote: »

Lets be honest, if the shopping centre had taken off, it would have been a large food provider and a few small shops....

Rubbish. It would have been the largest shopping centre in the south-east.

Digital Society wrote: »

Not a word said about the Ardkeen Stores, Tesco and Ballinakill SC yet imagine how many Dunmore Road big spenders head out there rather than the City. I wonder why?

Not true. I remember in some document or other (city development plan, retail strategy maybe) there was a mention that allowing Next in Ardkeen had been a mistake. They can't exactly undo it now, but the determination at the time was that the same mistake would not be made again.

The Bowling Alley

So tell me, what do people suggest we do with the building now?

fricatus

The Bowling Alley wrote: »

So tell me, what do people suggest we do with the building now?

A Bowling Alley?

padraig.od

fricatus wrote: »

A Bowling Alley?

Extension to the Abbey? Another WIT campus?

University of Kilkenny!! :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

fricatus

padraig.od wrote: »

University of Kilkenny!! :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

Oh Christ, don't go there, whatever you do!

pueblo

Digital Society wrote: »

I think we need to differentiate here. My opinion is that if Aldi went in there with a few decent clothes shops, that would have attracted women from other counties it would have been good. Other people are assuming that i meant open it up with Dunnes stores and god knows what else.

I think what Waterford needs a place that thinks outside the box. Something that will make people from Tipp, KK , Carlow and Cork say they wouldn't mind the trip down. This is what i was thinking - http://www.fashioncity.ie/.

Women from all over Ireland travel to that and bring either groups of Women or their family with them. Businesses up there are doing extremely well for themselves.

But as usual it comes down to begrudgery and narrow mindedness and god forbid something competes with the City.

Fashion City is a wholesale park selling to retailers. They hold periodic sell offs of end of season stock which are open to the public. This is not a runner for Ferrybank.

You talk about creating a 'retail destination' in Waterford, this is simply unrealistic. The big name retailers can't attract enough business to the locations they are already in, why would they want to open in Waterford?

As I said before Ireland is oversupplied with retail space, the market is contracting, the big names over-expanded during the boom times and ended up cannibalising their own business.

Another use needs to be found for Ferrybank

robtri

an interesting on it....

http://www.kilkennycoco.ie/resources/eng/Services/Planning/LocalAreaPlans/FerryBank/Section2B_ferrybank_belview_lap.pdf

robtri

ohhhh and to add from Waterford City manager....



Ferrybank: The submission states that Ferrybank should be removed from the retail hierarchy
and that the matter for the classification of this retail centre should be considered as part of a
future joint retail strategy.


And also.... He is thinking Williamstown would be a good place for further retail oppurtunities....

The submission states that beyond the City Centre and District Centre there are limited
opportunities for the development of comparison retail floorspace and in this regard it may be
prudent to consider the need for the designation of further future Tier 2 centres. The
submission requests that consideration be given to the development of a further District
Centre to the south of the City. It is stated that there are limited opportunities at the three
district centres at Lisduggan, Ardkeen and Morgan Street for the location of new comparison
and convenience shopping. Ferrybank will create a trade draw away from the city centre in a
northerly direction. It is stated that the lands at Williamstown are an appropriate location for
such a designation.