Ferrybank Shopping Centre - Again

furry

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/commercialproperty/2011/1109/1224307246971.html

abouttobebanned

KevIRL wrote: »

opening date is clearly wrong by 2 days

Or 11 days

fricatus

dunphy3 wrote: »

so ferrybank with its 6ooo houses cant have a shopping center?????????

There might be that many houses in Ferrybank with ghost estates and whatnot, but there are not that many people!

Ferrybank has about 1,000 and the bit of South KK immediately adjacent to Waterford has about 4,800.

The issue is not that it shouldn't have a shopping centre - just not one that big. Ardkeen has more than 6,000 houses but you can be sure that the city council would not have allowed a shopping centre that big to be built there.

DaveJac

thats good news, hope when it opens it will have a good few shops and not more empty shops than open ones

daenerysstormborn3

fricatus wrote: »

There might be that many houses in Ferrybank with ghost estates and whatnot, but there are not that many people!

Ferrybank has about 1,000 and the bit of South KK immediately adjacent to Waterford has about 4,800.

The issue is not that it shouldn't have a shopping centre - just not one that big. Ardkeen has more than 6,000 houses but you can be sure that the city council would not have allowed a shopping centre that big to be built there.

I highly doubt another retailer would move into a shopping centre in Ardkeen with that huge Tesco out there already, nor is there a real need for one. On the other hand a Dunnes Stores in Ferrybank will have a huge foot fall and if you think otherwise then you're fooling yourself.

michellie

I heard marks n spencers are looking at shaws! That'll be closing soon.

julyjane

michellie wrote: »

I heard marks n spencers are looking at shaws! That'll be closing soon.

Wow, that's a big shop. I go to M&S in Clonmel quite a bit but TBH it's quite small and the range is limited. They only seem to have a handful of childrens clothes and anytime I go to Liffey Valley there's a lot more choice in M&S because of the extra space. It would be a great boost for Waterford city centre if M&S went into Shaws.

As an aside, I didn't know Shaws were closing. Will the concessions in there be moving elsewhere or just shutting up shop?

Aquos76

Mod Note: Unless michellie has information that the rest of us don't have and is prepared to back up what she is stating, i would ask her to retreact her statement regarding the closure of Shaws.

Also, I would ask that people to refrain from speculating on unconfirmed rumours.

eimearos

michellie wrote: »

I heard marks n spencers are looking at shaws! That'll be closing soon.

afraid not michellie, shaws is definately not closing down. I have a very reliable source who works there for years. It is only one shop that is pulling out of there. think people need to get their facts right before employees of shaws start seeing things being posted!

fricatus

pixiebean22 wrote: »

I highly doubt another retailer would move into a shopping centre in Ardkeen with that huge Tesco out there already, nor is there a real need for one.

I think the city council's objections were not so much to do with the supermarket as to do with all the other 20 or more units, which will undoubtedly attract stores that they consider should really be in the city centre. That's what they wouldn't allow for Ardkeen - although the Next outlet out there seems to me to be borderline.

pixiebean22 wrote: »

On the other hand a Dunnes Stores in Ferrybank will have a huge foot fall and if you think otherwise then you're fooling yourself.

I didn't say it wouldn't have a reasonable footfall, though you're stretching it by referring to it as "huge". I'm sure it will do quite well, because it will attract shoppers from well beyond its own catchment area - and indeed this is what it's designed to do.

However you can't change the facts, which are that the population of Ferrybank is still only about 6,000, and that a shopping centre of that size is not justified if you examine it purely on that basis. If it were, then you'd have 8 of that size around the city, and two in Tramore!

Silverado

I would have thought that Dunnes Stores would be quite reluctant to take on a mega store in Ferrybank Shopping Centre in the present financial climate. Aldi already have a really good shop up the road and Tesco have the city well covered.

In fact Marks and Spenser really would be the most realistic option for Ferrybank but they are currently posting losses overall and may also be reluctant to open another Irish shop. Their Clonmel branch is reasonable but wouldn't bring you back a second time because it is really too small.

I think that Ferrybank Shopping Centre may have given a change of use to get it operational.

daenerysstormborn3

Silverado wrote: »

I would have thought that Dunnes Stores would be quite reluctant to take on a mega store in Ferrybank Shopping Centre in the present financial climate. Aldi already have a really good shop up the road and Tesco have the city well covered.

In fact Marks and Spenser really would be the most realistic option for Ferrybank but they are currently posting losses overall and may also be reluctant to open another Irish shop. Their Clonmel branch is reasonable but wouldn't bring you back a second time because it is really too small.

I think that Ferrybank Shopping Centre may have given a change of use to get it operational.

I may be wrong but I think there is a condition attached to the Ferrybank Shopping Centre which states that the anchor tenant cannot have a large clothes or homewares dept (I know I'm not wording that properly but I think there is something about this early on in this thread too) so I doubt M&S would move in with that condition.

wmpdd3

It's the other way around, Kilkenny CC didnt put any restriction on comparison shopping, but Waterford CC have a retails strategy that currently prohibits comparison shopping outside the city(The whole TK MAX issue!)

So there doesn't seem to be pressure on Dunnes to have a large grocery section, this should be an attraction to them as non food is higher margin and requires less payroll.

Apparently, Next permission was approved by Waterford County Council at the time they got planning, as apposed to city council. Though I still can see how Tesco Ballybeg was approved for a 2200 sq/ft clothing section but TK Max was closed.


The size of the other 20 units seems to be an issue too, I heard they have small shop floor space but nearly the same size back of house areas.

In relation to Shaws, all retails chains are finding it really hard and unless an offer no body could refuse was on the table a family owned store without share holders, is not going to close. Even banks wouldn't see a place like that close, look at SuperQuinn.

dunphy3

dayshah wrote: »

I don't think this place should have gotten planning permission, just like TK Maxx.

However, TK Maxx had a much better location. If you were travelling from somewhere like the industrial estate to the Dunmore Rd, you could nip into TK Maxx on the way home. Or if you lived near Lismore park it was handy enough if you had a car.

The advantages of these places to consumers is you avoid the city centre. To get to this Ferrybank place you have to drive through the centre, and then drive some more, to get there. It was destined to fail.

I wonder what it could be used for? Underground rave?

it was bilt for the 12000 houses in ferrybank and the people in the south east,[not everything has to be in waterford.

Jambo

There seems to be some activity in the shopping centre the last few days - and today a building crew bringing materials inside and errecting scafffolding internally !

abouttobebanned

Putting up the Christmas tree.*







*not really.

decies

Opening april, apparently there is a library going in there, the south kilkenny people need to read more

billythepig

decies wrote: »

Opening april, apparently there is a library going in there, the south kilkenny people need to read more

Somebody should tell the kilkenny people that the ferrybank shopping center is in waterford and NOT kilkenny,
the boundry sign is now out at the mile post.

daenerysstormborn3

Seriously could we all get over the boundary issue. I really don't think it matters as long as that shopping centre gets opened in some form and some jobs created.

There does seem to be movement in there the last couple of weeks.

Bards

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Seriously could we all get over the boundary issue. I really don't think it matters as long as that shopping centre gets opened in some form and some jobs created.

There does seem to be movement in there the last couple of weeks.

...as long as it is not at the expense of retails jobs in Waterford City

daenerysstormborn3

Bards wrote: »

...as long as it is not at the expense of retails jobs in Waterford City

So no retail outlet should be opened near Waterford City for fear of costing jobs?

Bards

pixiebean22 wrote: »

So no retail outlet should be opened near Waterford City for fear of costing jobs?

I never said that so please don't put words in my mouth.

Retail outlets specialising in Bulky items/grocery are fine on the periphery as that is where they belong. Comparison items such as fashion retail belongs in the City Centre and not on the outskirts.

The Ferrybank centre is far too big (anyone with half a brain would see that) and would never be given planning permission if applied for now. especially now that the Celtic Tiger planning shennigans is over

I am fearful that if the Ferrybank centre becomes fully operational it will lead to the creation of a doughnut City Centre in Waterford, unless the City Centre can fight back in terms of the KRM development or something similar going ahead and acting as a counter magnet to attract big name high street retail chains that the buying public want and are willing to travel to experience.

ex_infantry man

Bards wrote: »

I never said that so please don't put words in my mouth.

Retail outlets specialising in Bulky items/grocery are fine on the periphery as that is where they belong. Comparison items such as fashion retail belongs in the City Centre and not on the outskirts.

The Ferrybank centre is far too big (anyone with half a brain would see that) and would never be given planning permission if applied for now. especially now that the Celtic Tiger planning shennigans is over

I am fearful that if the Ferrybank centre becomes fully operational it will lead to the creation of a doughnut City Centre in Waterford, unless the City Centre can fight back in terms of the KRM development or something similar going ahead and acting as a counter magnet to attract big name high street retail chains that the buying public want and are willing to travel to experience.

limerick!! similar in size to waterford has a few shopping centre,s dotted around the city and has no problems, if anything i might attract people to shop in waterford!!!!

daenerysstormborn3

Bards wrote: »

I never said that so please don't put words in my mouth.

Retail outlets specialising in Bulky items/grocery are fine on the periphery as that is where they belong. Comparison items such as fashion retail belongs in the City Centre and not on the outskirts.

The Ferrybank centre is far too big (anyone with half a brain would see that) and would never be given planning permission if applied for now. especially now that the Celtic Tiger planning shennigans is over

I am fearful that if the Ferrybank centre becomes fully operational it will lead to the creation of a doughnut City Centre in Waterford, unless the City Centre can fight back in terms of the KRM development or something similar going ahead and acting as a counter magnet to attract big name high street retail chains that the buying public want and are willing to travel to experience.

I think the argument about it being too big and not getting planning permission now (quite a few posters have made this argument in this thread and in other threads) is irrelevant at this stage. The centre has been built, it is standing idle, whether it is too big or not is a fruitless argument now. However, it is a good example to deter other towns/cities considering the same sort of development.

Also, I thought the issue with having high street clothes chains etc. on the outskirts of Waterford had been solved by the explanation in relation to Waterford CC prohibiting comparison shopping outside the city (as highlighted earlier in this thread).

There are quite a few towns around the country that have a similar set-up as regards town centres and shopping centres being located just outside the main shopping areas for example, Manor Shopping Centre in Tralee, Citywest Shopping Centre.

O Riain

ex_infantry man wrote: »

limerick!! similar in size to waterford has a few shopping centre,s dotted around the city and has no problems, if anything i might attract people to shop in waterford!!!!

Limerick is almost double the size of waterford and the city centre is suffering due to all the developments on the outskirts, make no mistake there butty. The Opera centre has been delayed constantly for the last 3 years and now that it seems to be moving the centre has cried a sigh of relief.

Outskirt shopping centres do damage. People need to realise this.

fricatus

O Riain wrote: »

Outskirt shopping centres do damage. People need to realise this.

Just watching BBC News there and they were looking at Rotherham in Yorkshire. Everyone going to Meadowhall centre for M&S, and the city centre full of discount stores. We do not want Waterford to go down that route.

dayshah

Jambo wrote: »

There seems to be some activity in the shopping centre the last few days - and today a building crew bringing materials inside and errecting scafffolding internally !

Let's hope they put in demolition charges.

I think it would be good to start a campaign amongst Waterford people to boycott the place, as it is a beggar-thy-neighbour shopping centre. That'd it scare off any anchor tenants.

Let there be no doubt, this shopping centre will cost jobs.

Green Hornet

As somewhat of a blow in, I'm a bit surprised by the level of vitriol against the centre. I know from what I hear from Wexford that people are looking forward to it opening!

People also admire the look of the place. It will bring people from neighbourhood counties to Waterford that would not be bothered coming as things stand. Not to mention the people it will employ.

To be honest, I think there's a level of jealousy that it's in "Kilkenny" as opposed to "Waterford". If that's true, people need to grow up!

dayshah

Green Hornet wrote: »

As somewhat of a blow in, I'm a bit surprised by the level of vitriol against the centre. I know from what I hear from Wexford that people are looking forward to it opening!

People also admire the look of the place. It will bring people from neighbourhood counties to Waterford that would not be bothered coming as things stand. Not to mention the people it will employ.

To be honest, I think there's a level of jealousy that it's in "Kilkenny" as opposed to "Waterford". If that's true, people need to grow up!

I'm just as opposed to out of town shopping (except for heavy goods) out on the Cork Rd as in Kilkenny.

This will cost jobs. It will take people from the city centre. When people shop in a city centre they also often go for a coffee or something for lunch. When people drive to a out of town shopping centre they usually buy their stuff an go home. It also takes away from the economies of scope that Waterford needs to maintain in terms of variety of shops.

People often hate crap ideas, which is probably explains the vitriol.

daenerysstormborn3

Some people seem to be ignoring the fact that Waterford City is suffering greatly as a shopping destination, would a shopping centre with some decent shops in it not help this?

O Riain, Tralee has not suffered due to the location of Manor Shopping Centre and Citywest started out as a small suburb (in fairness it has grown) and The Square in Tallaght has not suffered due to the Citywest Shopping Centre as was a huge fear among retailers in The Square.

Posters really need to get over the Waterford v Kilkenny rubbish, can a discussion not be had on this forum without that coming into things?