Kildare GAA General Discussion Thread

Lemlin

We're discussing Kildare GAA in the Kildare GAA discussion thread.

You yourself said you expect Kildare to beat top sides based on league results.

I disagree. The Championship is a different animal to the league. For example, did Kildare not beat Meath in the league last year but lose to them in the championship?

That's the perfect example of what I am talking about.

rebel girl 15

Just a polite reminder to keep it civil lads, if you have a problem with a post, report it and leave the mods deal with them, thanks

b1964

Mr. Wong wrote: »

I love the way people dismiss the league like it's nothing. Kildare for an "over-rated" team are sitting joint top of NFL Div1, this is without key players like Daryl Flynn, Eamon Callaghan and Alan Smith. McGeeney has blooded serious talent so far this year so I for one am very optimistic for the Championship. One hurdle that needs to be addressed though is to beat the Dubs, the physiological boost that would give this team would be huge.

The Dubs winning the AI in '10 seems to have turned the media's attention on Kildare as the hype machine goes into over-drive when ever we play a big side.[/QUOTE

I think Dublin won the all ireland in 2011.:D

Mr. Wong

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

Conway might be overlooked now he just isn't good enough

Good player but he's a luxury player. McGeeney seems to have run out of positions for him.

roy rodgers

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

Conway might be overlooked now he just isn't good enough

Never rated conway anyways or connolly. I think mcgeeney needs to get rid of a few players that could hold the team back as they are not good enough.
Smithy could be next for the chop i can't remember when he played well for kildare must be two year now.

Mr. Wong

roy rodgers wrote: »

Never rated conway anyways or connolly. I think mcgeeney needs to get rid of a few players that could hold the team back as they are not good enough.
Smithy could be next for the chop i can't remember when he played well for kildare must be two year now.

Smith was our top scorer from play last year. He was the only player that performed against Cork in the AI semi final. Agree regards Conway though.

klairondavis

Smith is the best finisher in Kildare and was our best forward last year. He had Michael Shields in all sorts of bother in the All Ireland quarter final but Kildare couldn't get enough ball into him.

Connolly is a very good keeper. He just needs to work on his kickouts. He cannot take all the blame for the Dublin match because no Kildare players were offering him options for his kickouts. The movement on the kickouts was much better against Mayo and it was clear that it was something that was spelled out to the players before the throw in. They made it a lot easier for Donnellan who did well.

Mikey Conway still has a lot to offer the squad but not as a defender. He might have to settle for a substitute's role because it's hard to see him taking the 11 jersey off Niall Kelly given how well he is playing.

kencoo

There seems be to alot of stick for connolly recently and im not really sure why. IMHO hes a fine keeper and the least of kildares worries.
The dubs showed us that our midfield was weak enough. Yes , to keep drilling the ball into areas where we were always loosing it seemed like a hair brained idea but is that not tactics rather that skill?

For the past 2 years kildare have a plan A only and they will stick to it no matter what even if its obviously not working. examples - Meath in championship / limerick in championship etc....

Also, it may be just trolls, but im not sure what what hype is around kildare. We are in the top 5-6 teams in ireland, thats just a fact, but not good enough to this point in time to get to a final...

Lemlin

kencoo wrote: »

Also, it may be just trolls, but im not sure what what hype is around kildare. We are in the top 5-6 teams in ireland, thats just a fact, but not good enough to this point in time to get to a final...

I'll level the same question at you that the others couldn't answer.

If Kildare are in the top 5-6 teams in the country then why haven't they beaten a top team in the championship?

Dublin, Donegal, Down, Cork and Tyrone. All of those have beaten Kildare in the Championship where it really matters in the McGeeney era.

That's five teams. Then you've others like Kerry and Mayo.

Kildare have also lost to teams like Meath and Wicklow who are far from top 5-6. I also think they lost to Westmeath one year did they?

Therefore I would see it as hype to say a team who hasn't beaten a top 5-6 team is a top 5-6 team.

I don't see that as trolling. When Kildare prove themselves, I'll accept your "fact" but it clearly isn't one at the minute.

The one fact is that the media are blamed for hyping Kildare when everything goes tits up each year but the media isn't posting on here.

It's not even April and you've people on here saying there are few bigger teams than Kildare and that they are in top 5-6 in the country, if that's not hyping the team up, what is?

klairondavis

Lemlin wrote: »

I'll level the same question at you that the others couldn't answer.

If Kildare are in the top 5-6 teams in the country then why haven't they beaten a top team in the championship?

Dublin, Donegal, Down, Cork and Tyrone. All of those have beaten Kildare in the Championship where it really matters in the McGeeney era.

That's five teams. Then you've others like Kerry and Mayo.

Kildare have also lost to teams like Meath and Wicklow who are far from top 5-6. I also think they lost to Westmeath one year did they?

Therefore I would see it as hype to say a team who hasn't beaten a top 5-6 team is a top 5-6 team.

I don't see that as trolling. When Kildare prove themselves, I'll accept your "fact" but it clearly isn't one at the minute.

The one fact is that the media are blamed for hyping Kildare when everything goes tits up each year but the media isn't posting on here.

It's not even April and you've people on here saying there are few bigger teams than Kildare and that they are in top 5-6 in the country, if that's not hyping the team up, what is?

We also had Kildare people posting that we should throw our hats at it after the Dublin defeat only two weeks ago! Anyone who follows Kildare closely is well aware of their limitations.

That said, there is little doubt that they deserve to be classed among the top 8 or so teams in the country. I don't think we're good enough at the moment to beat Dublin or Cork or Kerry when it matters but Kildare tend to deal with the mid ranking teams fairly regularly when it's asked of them (although there have been some notable exceptions). To go undefeated in the qualifiers across six seasons regardless of the opposition is evidence enough that Kildare are among upper tier of teams. They are not an elite team yet and may never progress to be one but hopefully the next generation will drive us on to that level in the future.

kencoo

Lemlin, you have made my point. We are in the top 5/6 teams, i didnt say we were the top team because we are not. In the pecking order we are in the top 5/6- maybe the 5th or 6th team if you want to put it that way re championship.

I dont think its hype to to be happy about finishing 5th/6th/7th/8th or saying we are good enough to fall into that category. If i was to say 1st/2nd now thats hype...

I base this on the "fact" that kildare have been in the semi finals/quarter finals of the championship every year for the past 5 years, play in division 1 in the league and at the moment are doing well there.

If you think kildare should be outside the top 10 perhaps thats fine but year-in-year-out who should be infront of them?

Lemlin

klairondavis wrote: »

We also had Kildare people posting that we should throw our hats at it after the Dublin defeat only two weeks ago! Anyone who follows Kildare closely is well aware of their limitations.

That said, there is little doubt that they deserve to be classed among the top 8 or so teams in the country. I don't think we're good enough at the moment to beat Dublin or Cork or Kerry when it matters but Kildare tend to deal with the mid ranking teams fairly regularly when it's asked of them (although there have been some notable exceptions). To go undefeated in the qualifiers across six seasons regardless of the opposition is evidence enough that Kildare are among upper tier of teams. They are not an elite team yet and may never progress to be one but hopefully the next generation will drive us on to that level in the future.

I agree Klarion and you are one Kildare poster whose opinion I value.

You say top 8 and I'd agree with that but statements like its a "fact" Kildare are in the top 5-6 and there are few bigger teams than Kildare are totally over the top IMO.

It was the same here last year at this time of year when Kildare won division 2 but then you had the same posters saying in the Summer that the media hyped Kildare, not the fans.

Dublin for many years were a team who delivered Leinster title after Leinster title, a feat Kildare have yet to manage, but were found wanting in the Championship when it counted.

They too had little problem dealing with mid ranking teams but always came up short against the top 5-6 until their eventual breakthrough vs Tyrone in 2010.

Until Kildare finally deliver on the big stage and defeat a top side, I think supporters should be talking them down, not up.

kencoo

So if i was to say kildare a good enough to get to the quarter final again this year i am hyping them up?

klairondavis

Lemlin wrote: »

I agree Klarion and you are one Kildare poster whose opinion I value.

You say top 8 and I'd agree with that but statements like its a "fact" Kildare are in the top 5-6 and there are few bigger teams than Kildare are totally over the top IMO.

It was the same here last year at this time of year when Kildare won division 2 but then you had the same posters saying in the Summer that the media hyped Kildare, not the fans.

Dublin for many years were a team who delivered Leinster title after Leinster title, a feat Kildare have yet to manage, but were found wanting in the Championship when it counted.

They too had little problem dealing with mid ranking teams but always came up short against the top 5-6 until their eventual breakthrough vs Tyrone in 2010.

Until Kildare finally deliver on the big stage and defeat a top side, I think supporters should be talking them down, not up.

I think the vast majority of Kildare supporters do talk them down. Just scroll back a few pages to the reaction after the Dublin defeat! There are exceptions but sure you'll get that everywhere. Anyone who has followed Kildare for any length of time will never be overly optimistic. We've had too much disappointment down the years to be any other way. I remember Kildare in the 1980s and what we've had for a lot of the last 20 years has been much more positive and refreshing from a supporter's point of view. At least we've been relevant which we were most certainly not during the 80s. No one who knew the Kildare inter county scene back then held it against Tompkins and Fahy for leaving because the whole setup was such a shambles. Most older Kildare followers have a deep grained pessimism as a result!

corny

Whether or not Kildare are an elite side reminds me a bit of Dublin pre 2010. We were great for blowing away the lesser sides in Leinster but when le crunch came and Tyrone and Kerry walked into Croke Park we had no answer. Sometimes we were obliterated.

The turning point, and i really do believe this was the beginning of the road to AI success in 2011, was beating Tyrone in the quarter final 2010. The belief gained from that victory laid the platform.

Kildare aren't that far away from beating the top sides and big victory could spur them on to success but until that day you can't really blame people for dismissing them.

Lemlin

kencoo wrote: »

So if i was to say kildare a good enough to get to the quarter final again this year i am hyping them up?

No.

But then that's not what you said originally, is it?

Lemlin

corny wrote: »

Whether or not Kildare are an elite side reminds me a bit of Dublin pre 2010. We were great for blowing away the lesser sides in Leinster but when le crunch came and Tyrone and Kerry walked into Croke Park we had no answer. Sometimes we were obliterated.

The turning point, and i really do believe this was the beginning of the road to AI success in 2011, was beating Tyrone in the quarter final 2010. The belief gained from that victory laid the platform.

Kildare aren't that far away from beating the top sides and big victory could spur them on to success but until that day you can't really blame people for dismissing them.

Exactly the point I've made above. Until Kildare finally get over that marker and beat a top team, I think I've every right to take exception to comments made like those on here over the past few days.

klairondavis

corny wrote: »

Whether or not Kildare are an elite side reminds me a bit of Dublin pre 2010. We were great for blowing away the lesser sides in Leinster but when le crunch came and Tyrone and Kerry walked into Croke Park we had no answer. Sometimes we were obliterated.

The turning point, and i really do believe this was the beginning of the road to AI success in 2011, was beating Tyrone in the quarter final 2010. The belief gained from that victory laid the platform.

Kildare aren't that far away from beating the top sides and big victory could spur them on to success but until that day you can't really blame people for dismissing them.

From my reading of this thread most Kildare people would echo this so I don't really see the point to this debate? Those talking Kildare up in recent years tend to be journalists from outside the county.

This whole idea of ranking teams is a bit pointless anyway. The championship is a different animal. It is all on the day. Mayo got beaten in the All Ireland final last year but I don't think many would claim that they are the second best team in Ireland.

DARK-KNIGHT

Lemlin wrote: »

I agree Klarion and you are one Kildare poster whose opinion I value.

You say top 8 and I'd agree with that but statements like its a "fact" Kildare are in the top 5-6 and there are few bigger teams than Kildare are totally over the top IMO.

It was the same here last year at this time of year when Kildare won division 2 but then you had the same posters saying in the Summer that the media hyped Kildare, not the fans.

Dublin for many years were a team who delivered Leinster title after Leinster title, a feat Kildare have yet to manage, but were found wanting in the Championship when it counted.

They too had little problem dealing with mid ranking teams but always came up short against the top 5-6 until their eventual breakthrough vs Tyrone in 2010.

Until Kildare finally deliver on the big stage and defeat a top side, I think supporters should be talking them down, not up.

Ah lemlin your only back a week and in that week in the gaa forum most of your posts are here Jesus lad lay off it will you.

Kildare certainly have not beaten a top team in championship since mcgeeneys record in championship is outstanding when it comes to where we bow out every year. Some awful decisions, terrible injuries and some bad redding decisions have cost Kildare over last few years..

And as you described our seanie as was it the fat guy you said to me in a pm didn't help us last year as team seemed very distracted in championship til cork ran through them to finish our year off.

I do indeed think our lads have the ability to beat any team given they play their socks off etc.. But as a panel we are a hell of a lot lighter than Dublin.. Dublin IMO are a great team so much respect for all but one of their players. Our lack of a midfield due to injuries was horribly shown to us in a second half where I just couldn't watch..


Ill gladly discuss or debate any subject Kildare related with you but I have 2 kids and a full time job they take priority over arguing or debating here can't help that and that's why I don't take time to reply in depth.


Kildare in a nutshell IMO
Positives
Fantastic group of dedicated players.
Have in patches looked like a fine football team.
Year in year out at business end of championship.
Showed great character with the abuse others throw at them so mentally strong.


Negatives
Very hit and miss performances in championship.
No plan B.
Yet to beat a top team in championship.


Overall yes we are limited and most of us know that but your opinion on Kildare football isn't going to change a lot lemlin..

kencoo

When does saying saying kildare are 5/6th suddenly turn into winners of the all Ireland?

I have been on the road with kildare for years and know their limitations all to well. You could never say, based on current form, that they are good enough to reach the top. I still think they are good enough to be classed as 5th/6th though. Thats based on past form and results.

corny

klairondavis wrote: »

From my reading of this thread most Kildare people would echo this so I don't really see the point to this debate? Those talking Kildare up in recent years tend to be journalists from outside the county.

This whole idea of ranking teams is a bit pointless anyway. The championship is a different animal. It is all on the day. Mayo got beaten in the All Ireland final last year but I don't think many would claim that they are the second best team in Ireland.

Sorry klairondavis i'm not an avid reader of this thread but you're right. Fifth or sixth can become first or second overnight.

For what its worth i firmly believe its all about the intangibles with Kildare and taking that next step.

klairondavis

Kildare are in a similar position now to where they were in the mid 1990s. A very competitive team with some fine players but lacking in a bit of belief and composure on the big day. They could never quite manage that Dublin hurdle despite looking a better team than them on occasion - I'm thinking of 1994 in particular. In 1997 that team went hammer and tongs with a great Meath side three times but let them off the hook when they had the beating of them. When they finally managed to get over Dublin in 1998 they needed a replay and only won that by a point even though they were probably five or six points superior to them. That win gave them the confidence and belief that they could compete and they went all the way to September that year.

If Kildare got over Dublin in a Leinster semi final this summer (which I don't expect them to) it would be no surprise if they went a very long way as a result. They need that big turning point that will erode away any of the lingering mental brittleness that is there. Micko's Kildare team got that in 1997 when they beat Laois despite being two men down for over an hour. Had they not won that match I don't think they would have won Leinster titles in 1998 and 2000.

Mr. Wong

Lemlin, what is your obsession with all things Kildare GAA? Do you do the same on the Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, etc discussion threads?

Lemlin

Mr. Wong wrote: »

Lemlin, what is your obsession with all things Kildare GAA? Do you do the same on the Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, etc discussion threads?

I wondered when this nutshell would be rolled out...

Attack the post, not the poster.

I previously posted alot on the Dublin thread when I lived there. I often post on the Meath thread because I often go to games in the county and attend Meath games as the other half is from there.

In regard to Kildare, us Cavan folk have a particular reason to keep an eye on Kildare which I do not care to bring up again.

Lemlin

klairondavis wrote: »

From my reading of this thread most Kildare people would echo this so I don't really see the point to this debate? Those talking Kildare up in recent years tend to be journalists from outside the county.

This whole idea of ranking teams is a bit pointless anyway. The championship is a different animal. It is all on the day. Mayo got beaten in the All Ireland final last year but I don't think many would claim that they are the second best team in Ireland.

Again we go back to the media chestnut. Three supporters in this thread have given opinions I have taken exception too. None are the media. So the talking up I'm discussing here has absolutely nothing to do with the media.

The championship is a different animal because teams give their all, something they don't do in the league.

Mr. Wong

Ok, I'll bring it up so. You post on this thread because former Cavan player Seanie Johnston plays with us. That wasn't so bad now was it?

Roy Maurice Keane, "get on with it, nobody died, move on!"

Lemlin

Mr. Wong wrote: »

Ok, I'll bring it up so. You post on this thread because former Cavan player Seanie Johnston plays with us. That wasn't so bad now was it?

Roy Maurice Keane, "get on with it, nobody died, move on!"

I have moved on but I still have a reason to have an interest in Kildare GAA.

Like I said, if you have a problem and disagree with a point I've made, attack the point and respond to it.

What you're attempting now is just lazy because you don't have an answer to the points I've made.

Lemlin

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

Ah lemlin your only back a week and in that week in the gaa forum most of your posts are here Jesus lad lay off it will you.

Kildare certainly have not beaten a top team in championship since mcgeeneys record in championship is outstanding when it comes to where we bow out every year. Some awful decisions, terrible injuries and some bad redding decisions have cost Kildare over last few years..

And as you described our seanie as was it the fat guy you said to me in a pm didn't help us last year as team seemed very distracted in championship til cork ran through them to finish our year off.

I do indeed think our lads have the ability to beat any team given they play their socks off etc.. But as a panel we are a hell of a lot lighter than Dublin.. Dublin IMO are a great team so much respect for all but one of their players. Our lack of a midfield due to injuries was horribly shown to us in a second half where I just couldn't watch..


Ill gladly discuss or debate any subject Kildare related with you but I have 2 kids and a full time job they take priority over arguing or debating here can't help that and that's why I don't take time to reply in depth.


Kildare in a nutshell IMO
Positives
Fantastic group of dedicated players.
Have in patches looked like a fine football team.
Year in year out at business end of championship.
Showed great character with the abuse others throw at them so mentally strong.


Negatives
Very hit and miss performances in championship.
No plan B.
Yet to beat a top team in championship.


Overall yes we are limited and most of us know that but your opinion on Kildare football isn't going to change a lot lemlin..

My opinion on Dublin changed when they beat Tyrone in 2010 and I was proven wrong about them. It changed even further in 2011 when they beat Tyrone again, Donegal and then Kerry.

In the same way, my opinion about Kildare will change when they show it should.

I fail to see why people have such a big problem with that?

I've now three or four of you responding to me because I've pointed out the facts of the matter IMO - Kildare have often lost to average sides like Meath in the Championship and have not beaten a top 5-6 team.

klairondavis

Lemlin wrote: »

Again we go back to the media chestnut. Three supporters in this thread have given opinions I have taken exception too. None are the media. So the talking up I'm discussing here has absolutely nothing to do with the media.

The championship is a different animal because teams give their all, something they don't do in the league.

If you can point out to me exactly where Kildare people are hyping up their team then I will accept your argument. I cannot recall anyone on here saying we'll win this or that come the summer. I'm sorry if we don't live up to the stereotype of being overly excitable bandwagoners. I find Kildare supporters are quite realistic and at times overly pessimistic.

I don't think Kildare will go much further this year than they have done previously. The young players are promising and give us hope but they will need time and I think there is a danger now of expecting too much from them. That said, would it be that big of a surprise if I'm wrong and Kildare were still standing in late August? Apart from Dublin I don't think there are that many teams out there who Kildare would fear. I just do not see Donegal replicating the same hunger and desire this year.

Mr. Wong

Lemlin wrote: »

Again we go back to the media chestnut. Three supporters in this thread have given opinions I have taken exception too. None are the media. So the talking up I'm discussing here has absolutely nothing to do with the media.

The championship is a different animal because teams give their all, something they don't do in the league.

So you nit pick what 3 supporters have said and then tar the rest of Kildare's fanbase with what they've said. Well done.

The media are a huge source of all this hype surrounding Kildare. We are shown on tv a lot more than before McGeeney took over, the newspapers focus on us a lot more and the internet forums such as this one also focus on Kildare regularly.