salmon tagging

mp22

slowburner wrote: »

I can understand it being part of a fisheries officer's duties to check permits on state controlled waters - but checking for permits on private waters does seem odd. That would not be normal practice.

There is a few private fisheries here, one owner called in the fisheries officers to sort out a few people who had no permission to fish,they were happy to do so.
The bailiffs said that they could issue fines to those fishing on private or club waters without permission.

DavyDee

slowburner wrote: »

I can understand it being part of a fisheries officer's duties to check permits on state controlled waters - but checking for permits on private waters does seem odd. That would not be normal practice.

So you government employed fisheries officers handing fines to the tax payers who are paying their wages for fishing on waters owned and staffed by whats left of the landlords and English gentry. What I would also like to know is how would Cromwellian deeds stand up in a European Court of Law? Sion Mills fishing club took one of these landlords to the European courts who tried to stop the locals fishing the towns water. All they had to prove was their ancestors fished the river for free and the European court of law handed the control of the fishery back to the locals who now run the fishery!

slowburner

mp22 wrote: »

There is a few private fisheries here, one owner called in the bailiffs to sort out a few people who had no permission to fish,they were happy to do so.
The bailiffs said that they could issue fines to those fishing on private or club waters without permission.

Please refrain from using the word bailiff to refer to a fisheries officer - unless you deliberately want to cause insult ?

The following is from the 1959 Fisheries act and has not been amended to the best of my knowledge. It should be clear from these sections that it is part of the fisheries officers' duty to protect private fisheries. This would not include the issue of permissions or receipt of monies.

Chapter IV.

Protection of Private Fisheries.

Penalty for unauthorised entry on several fishery.
178.—If any person (not being authorised by the owner or occupier of a several fishery) enters into or upon such several fishery for the purpose or under the pretence of killing fish therein or taking fish therefrom or kills any fish therein or takes any fish therefrom, such person shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine of not less than ten shillings and not more than five pounds.
Penalty for fishing with nets in a several fishery without licence of owner.
179.—(1) If any person uses or fishes with any net within the limits of a several fishery without authority in writing from the owner or occupier of such fishery, such person shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding ten pounds.
(2) Where a person is convicted of an offence under this section, any net in respect of which the offence was committed shall, as a statutory consequence of conviction, stand forfeited.
Penalty for unauthorised fishing in private ponds.
180.—If any person kills, takes or destroys any fish in any pond, private canal or reservoir wherein he has no property without the authority of the owner of such pond, private canal or reservoir, such person shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding ten pounds.
Penalty for entering without permission lands for purposes of fishing.
181.—If any person enters on any land for the purpose or under the pretence of fishing in any water without authority in writing from the owner or occupier of such land, such person shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding two pounds.

slowburner

DavyDee wrote: »

So you government employed fisheries officers handing fines to the tax payers who are paying their wages for fishing on waters owned and staffed by whats left of the landlords and English gentry. What I would also like to know is how would Cromwellian deeds stand up in a European Court of Law? Sion Mills fishing club took one of these landlords to the European courts who tried to stop the locals fishing the towns water. All they had to prove was their ancestors fished the river for free and the European court of law handed the control of the fishery back to the locals who now run the fishery!

I am neither a fisheries officer nor employed by the state.

DavyDee

slowburner wrote: »

I am neither a fisheries officer nor employed by the state.

Like most of our fisheries laws, its very outdated it refers to shillings and pounds and I wonder if it is now legally binding due our currecy now being euro. As for insinuating you were an officer or employed by the state, I dont remember doing so!

Zzippy

DavyDee wrote: »

Like most of our fisheries laws, its very outdated it refers to shillings and pounds and I wonder if it is now legally binding due our currecy now being euro.

Like most laws, it may sound outdated but is still valid, there have been various amendment acts since then, as well as byelaws, etc, but this section is still in force.
Fishery officers have always had authority to check permits of anglers on several (private) fisheries, the practice has usually been to check for licences and allow clubs/owners to manage permits, otherwise you would have every fishery owner in the country demanding fishery officers patrol their fishery for permits on a daily basis. Where fishery owners are having a serious problem, they may request the local IFI office to do some patrols and check for permits, and where anglers are found to be fishing without a permit (which is legally termed unlawful entry) they can issue on-the-spot fines.

ironbluedun

slowburner wrote: »

Please refrain from using the word bailiff to refer to a fisheries officer - unless you deliberately want to cause insult ?

never knew that calling a bailiff a bailiff was insulting? thats a new one to me! is it a bit like the way some ghillies want to be called 'guides'?

DavyDee

Zzippy wrote: »

Like most laws, it may sound outdated but is still valid, there have been various amendment acts since then, as well as byelaws, etc, but this section is still in force.
Fishery officers have always had authority to check permits of anglers on several (private) fisheries, the practice has usually been to check for licences and allow clubs/owners to manage permits, otherwise you would have every fishery owner in the country demanding fishery officers patrol their fishery for permits on a daily basis. Where fishery owners are having a serious problem, they may request the local IFI office to do some patrols and check for permits, and where anglers are found to be fishing without a permit (which is legally termed unlawful entry) they can issue on-the-spot fines.

I know its 100% legal, this isnt my problem. My problem is the fact tax payers money is been used to patrol fully staffed private fisheries. Legally its right, morally its 100% wrong! These officers could be checking for illegal netting or sources of pollution but the soft few quid to be made in fines!

Zzippy

DavyDee wrote: »

So you government employed fisheries officers handing fines to the tax payers who are paying their wages for fishing on waters owned and staffed by whats left of the landlords and English gentry. What I would also like to know is how would Cromwellian deeds stand up in a European Court of Law? Sion Mills fishing club took one of these landlords to the European courts who tried to stop the locals fishing the towns water. All they had to prove was their ancestors fished the river for free and the European court of law handed the control of the fishery back to the locals who now run the fishery!

I would love nothing more than to see all Irish lakes and rivers under State control rather than the chaotic mix of clubs, landlords, Coillte, State, etc that it is now, with many fisheries in dispute and deeds unable to be found. Fisheries could be either run by the State or licensed to clubs, as many currently are. But that's not the legal situation, no matter how much we might wish it.

Have you any links to the Sion Mills case, press reports, etc?

On your first point, fishery officers are tax payers too, and just because you pay tax doesn't mean you know best about how State employees should do their job. Saying "I pay your wages" means nothing. Are you saying that where private fishery owners (many of whom are Irish and nothing to do with gentry, landed or otherwise) have serious problems with illegal fishing, that fishery officers should let those people fish on illegally, just because they pay tax???

DavyDee wrote: »

I know its 100% legal, this isnt my problem. My problem is the fact tax payers money is been used to patrol fully staffed private fisheries. Legally its right, morally its 100% wrong! These officers could be checking for illegal netting or sources of pollution but the soft few quid to be made in fines!

What's immoral about it? More to the point, what's moral about people fishing illegally, whether with rod or net? You seem to be defending people fishign without a permit, just because you disagree with people owning a fishery...
For what it's worth, fishery officers in this area are snowed under at the moment with illegal netting, and putting in 70-80 hours a week on stakeouts and boat patrols, having their boats rammed and being threatened with assault (this week alone). Fishing permits are well down the list of priorities right now.

aidanf

Seems to be a lot of antipathy towards fisheries officers coming out in this thread. Not sure why - seems to me they do a difficult job with limited resources. I've never had a run-in with one, but then again I pay my licence fee and follow the rules.

DavyDee

aidanf wrote: »

Seems to be a lot of antipathy towards fisheries officers coming out in this thread. Not sure why - seems to me they do a difficult job with limited resources. I've never had a run-in with one, but then again I pay my licence fee and follow the rules.

I just want to clear something up here, I know plenty of fisheries officers personally and have never personally had an unpleasant encounter with one. What I have a problem with is abuse of power and the waste of state resources (.ie state fisheries officers pulling for permits on private fisheries!) by officers having to waste time enforcing petty laws against rod anglers tresspassing when they could be protecting the rivers and lakes for poaching and pollution. I know how hard a job it is but its easy to treat people as you would like to be treated yourself!

Whats immoral about a fisheries officer paid with your tax money taking a rod off a person whose ancestors have fished the river because the decendant of some landlord doesnt want him to catch a fish or 2 off a beat there are no guests on? Ill let you figure that one for yourself!

slowburner

DavyDee wrote: »

Like most of our fisheries laws, its very outdated it refers to shillings and pounds and I wonder if it is now legally binding due our currecy now being euro. As for insinuating you were an officer or employed by the state, I dont remember doing so!

If you read your post (no 33) your reply appears naturally to be directed at me because you quote a post of mine. I would call that insinuation.

slowburner

DavyDee wrote: »

Like most of our fisheries laws, its very outdated it refers to shillings and pounds and I wonder if it is now legally binding due our currecy now being euro. As for insinuating you were an officer or employed by the state, I dont remember doing so!

It is very much still in force and don't worry, the fines have been updated to the Euro currency.

slowburner

ironbluedun wrote: »

never knew that calling a bailiff a bailiff was insulting? thats a new one to me! is it a bit like the way some ghillies want to be called 'guides'?

Ask a fisheries officer.

Compton

Aye I'll ask a bailiff next time one pisses me off again..

ring 20

i also think its not right that state paid [not having a go at anyone paid by the state] baillifs have anything to do with private fisheries, would the county council come and fix a private road on your land?? they seem to serve these fisheries owners like its they who pay the baillifs wages

slowburner

ring 20 wrote: »

i also think its not right that state paid [not having a go at anyone paid by the state] baillifs have anything to do with private fisheries, would the county council come and fix a private road on your land?? they seem to serve these fisheries owners like its they who pay the baillifs wages

If it was your private road and a bunch of people decided to park their caravans there - would you not call the Gardai?

It is pretty clear here that some of you refuse to pay any degree of respect to fisheries officers and persist in name calling.
This puts you on one side of the law and fisheries officers on the other.
Not so clever.

ring 20

they have been known as baillifs as long as i can remember, when did they decide it offended them?

Compton

me too i was talking to one a few weeks ago and HE called himself a bailif.

slowburner

ring 20 wrote: »

they have been known as baillifs as long as i can remember, when did they decide it offended them?

1939 actually.
Glad you are keeping up with the times.

Substitution of expression “water keeper” for expression “water bailiff” in Fisheries Acts.
48. —In the Fisheries Acts, 1842 to 1937—
(a) the words “water keeper” shall be substituted for the words “water bailiff” wherever the latter words occur;
(b) the words “water keepers” shall be substituted for the words “water bailiffs” wherever the latter words occur;
(c) the word “keeper” shall be substituted for the word “bailiff” wherever the latter word occurs;
(d) the word “keepers” shall be substituted for the word “bailiffs” wherever the latter word occurs.

slowburner

shblob wrote: »

Aye I'll ask a bailiff next time one pisses me off again..

Good man yourself.

ring 20

slowburner wrote: »

1939 actually.
Glad you are keeping up with the times.

good man yourself learn something new every day

beer enigma

Ok I'm closing this thread as its run its course.

Can I just remind people that abusive references towards Bailiffs, Fishery Officers or Water Keepers etc will not be tolerated. Like it or loathe it, they all have jobs to do and if you have a problem, then I suggest you take it up with them or the appropriate correct authority.

We've all come across people in life that may be overly officious, but the majority of these people do a good job - the rules are the rules & if you are caught without documentation/tags then you are liable to further action. You may know the guy at airport security, but he wont let you through without id.................

In any event, use of foul language in any thread will lead to users getting banned.

Thanks