Hurling All-Stars

AGC

People probably go mad at this but I think both Shefflin and Corbett didn't do a massive amount to warrant one. Yes Corbett got his 4-4 but he didn't stand out at all for me this year.

To be able to leave out the Championships top scorer looks like they have just to accomodate KK and Tipp.

Speak Now

AGC wrote: »

People probably go mad at this but I think both Shefflin and Corbett didn't do a massive amount to warrant one. Yes Corbett got his 4-4 but he didn't stand out at all for me this year.

To be able to leave out the Championships top scorer looks like they have just to accomodate KK and Tipp.

So who do you think should have an all star ahead of Shefflin?

Kojak

Alaska1 wrote: »

Some full-back line, alot of this selection seems to be based on the Final as opposed to the whole year.

But isn't that always the way?

Its always the finalists that get the lion's share of awards anyways, and given that they finalists were so far ahead of everyone else (OK you could maybe make a case for Dublin, but that's about it) the awards were going to be based on how players played in the match involving the top 2 teams.

Alaska1

Kojak wrote: »

But isn't that always the way?

Its always the finalists that get the lion's share of awards anyways, and given that they finalists were so far ahead of everyone else (OK you could maybe make a case for Dublin, but that's about it) the awards were going to be based on how players played in the match involving the top 2 teams.

Certainly is, but.....Dublin got only 1 more than 2009, this year they have been way more successful and only 1 more than that year.

How Paul Ryan has been left out is astonishing.

MrJoeSoap

Alaska1 wrote: »

Certainly is, but.....Dublin got only 1 more than 2009, this year they have been way more successful and only 1 more than that year.

How Paul Ryan has been left out is astonishing.

I'd definitely be pleading Peter Kelly's case before Paul Ryan's. Not taking anything away from Ryan, but given Kelly's performances under the circumstances, having been moved out of position to mark Canning and Corbett, he did incredibly well.

That said, Dublin having a great year still doesn't come anywhere close to the freight train of hurling that is Kilkenny, and I don't think that any Dublin players other than Rushe or Maguire would make their starting 15.

And this is from a massive Dublin hurling fan.

Alaska1

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

I'd definitely be pleading Peter Kelly's case before Paul Ryan's. Not taking anything away from Ryan, but given Kelly's performances under the circumstances, having been moved out of position to mark Canning and Corbett, he did incredibly well.

That said, Dublin having a great year still doesn't come anywhere close to the freight train of hurling that is Kilkenny, and I don't think that any Dublin players other than Rushe or Maguire would make their starting 15.

And this is from a massive Dublin hurling fan.

Hard to argue with any of that, well said.

dcr22B

Spot on Mr. JoeSoap, well said.

That's what makes having only 5 NHL games more annoying. If we are to make the next step, we need more competitive games to bring new players through in the league.

MrJoeSoap

lovelypoint wrote: »

All Star Team, as per RTE:

2011 GAA GPA All-Star hurling team


Goalkeeper
1. Gary Maguire (Dublin)

Full backs
2. Paul Murphy (Kilkenny)
3. Paul Curran (Tipperary)
4. Michael Cahill (Tipperary)

Half backs
5. Tommy Walsh (Kilkenny)
6. Brian Hogan (Kilkenny)
7. Pádraic Maher (Tipperary)

Midfielders
8. Liam Rushe (Dublin)
9. Michael Fennelly (Kilkenny)

Half forwards
10. Michael Rice (Kilkenny)
11. Richie Power (Kilkenny)
12. Henry Shefflin (Kilkenny)

Full forwards
13. John Mullane (Waterford)
14. Lar Corbett (Tipperary)
15. Richie Hogan (Kilkenny)

(http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/champion.../allstars.html)

Special words of mention have to go to the record-breakers, Shefflin and Walsh. To win ten All-Stars is an unbelievable achievement, and shows to me that Shefflin is the greatest ever. And for Tommy Walsh, with whom I have a love/hate relationship, to win nine in a row, again, phenomenal stuff.

And one special mention to one of my all-time favourite hurlers, John Mullane, who is an enigma and always seems to be in the reckoning when it comes to the all-stars. Yet another sad tale that he will never see All-Ireland glory like so many of that great Waterford team. I hope he is holding his head high today.

Alaska1 wrote: »

Some full-back line, alot of this selection seems to be based on the Final as opposed to the whole year.

It's hard not to weight the final so heavily, it's the one game that every other game and training session points towards. That game makes or breaks teams and is where the class players come to the fore. Paul Murphy for example, had a good year, but had a fantastic performance in the final and was fully deserving of his award in my opinion.

Gerard.C wrote: »

ye didnt win nathin all year and you have to get to a final to be judged on it. let it be known now boy.

Walsh Cup and League, thanks very much. Let it be known now boy.

lala88

Alaska1 wrote: »

Certainly is, but.....Dublin got only 1 more than 2009, this year they have been way more successful and only 1 more than that year.

How Paul Ryan has been left out is astonishing.

Just because a team makes the semi final doesn't mean they should get more All Stars because of it. Take Wexford in 2008 they made the football semi final but got no All Star.

lala88

Herity and Cummins will feel unlucky not to get the keeper one, Maguire must have let in 7 or 8 goals wile the other 2 let in 5 between them!

dcr22B

lala88 wrote: »

Herity and Cummins will feel unlucky not to get the keeper one, Maguire must have let in 7 or 8 goals wile the other 2 let in 5 between them!

To be fair to Maguire, he stopped a hell of a lot more from going in as well.

lala88

dcr22B wrote: »

To be fair to Maguire, he stopped a hell of a lot more from going in as well.

Still to be getting in 7/8 goals is not an All Star to me

Gerard.C

dcr22B wrote: »

Excuse my learned Premier friend, we won the NHL in May and came very close to getting to a final.

I just don't think two All Stars are representative of the stellar year that Dublin hurling had in 2011.

For the record, I would only have awarded us one more All Star and that would be Peter Kelly at full back.

Yerra the league is only a mickey mouse yoke is all. Came very close to gettin to a final is the same as not gettin to a final. Theres your learned premier friend now boy

MrJoeSoap

Gerard.C wrote: »

Yerra the league is only a mickey mouse yoke is all.

It's only a Mickey Mouse yoke when you don't win it. No need to get high and mighty.

Gerard.C wrote: »

Came very close to gettin to a final is the same as not gettin to a final.

Thanks for that whirlwind of information.

Similarly, getting to a final isn't the same as winning a final.

dcr22B

Gerard.C wrote: »

Yerra the league is only a mickey mouse yoke is all. Came very close to gettin to a final is the same as not gettin to a final. Theres your learned premier friend now boy

The league wasn't Mickey Mouse to us at all and Cody said it himself that he didn't think he would get the hiding that we dished out to them that weekend (missing players or not). We need to use the league as a stepping stone to getting closer to the likes of KK/Tipp.

The last thing hurling needs is a lengthy period of KK/Tipp dominance so the more counties who use the league as we have done in 2011 can only be to their advantage.

I accept the standard of spring hurling is lower than that of the summer but TBH, the quality of games this year wasn't that much of a step up from the league so the gap in competitiveness between the competitions is closing IMO.

lala88

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

It's only a Mickey Mouse yoke when you don't win it. No need to get high and mighty.



Thanks for that whirlwind of information.

Similarly, getting to a final isn't the same as winning a final.

Im sure Tipp of Kilkenny didn't lose much sleep over Dublin winning the league this year.

They still got there though didn't they? Its very easy to get to semi finals but no point getting to them if you dont win

Gerard.C

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

It's only a Mickey Mouse yoke when you don't win it. No need to get high and mighty.



Thanks for that whirlwind of information.

Similarly, getting to a final isn't the same as winning a final.

If i wanted to get high and mighty, I'd tell you that Tipp have won the most leagues. But I wouldnt do that, because tis only an aul rinky dink yoke is all. Getting to a final isnt winning a final no but shur you cant win them all. Still isnt it better to get to the final than the semi!

MrJoeSoap

lala88 wrote: »

Im sure Tipp of Kilkenny didn't lose much sleep over Dublin winning the league this year.

You'd wonder why some teams bother entering the league at all, given how incredibly useless and meaningless a competition it apparently is to their fans.

lala88 wrote: »

They still got there though didn't they? Its very easy to get to semi finals but no point getting to them if you dont win

I wasn't belittling Tipp, far from it. You need to understand the context of this argument. Gerard C came on here and said "ye didnt win nathin all year" and I pointed out that we won the Walsh Cup and League.

He then stated that the league is a Mickey Mouse competition (so meaningless he had clearly forgotten we'd won it). The way he was going on you'd swear Tipp had made a clean sweep of the trophies this year.

The only reason I said that getting to a final isn't the same as winning it, was to point out that for all Tipp did, they didn't achieve much more than Dublin this year.

Still, the level of disdain being shown towards Dublin is a good indication of where we're at I suppose.

MrJoeSoap

Gerard.C wrote: »

Still isnt it better to get to the final than the semi!

Sure is.

Better to win the league than not win it.

Better to be on the way up than on the way down.

And better to be happy with your own achievements than to be belittling others.

dcr22B

If this thread proves anything from the responses from Gerard C. & lala88, it is that Dublin will not get the respect from the traditional hurling counties until we have reached an All Ireland final or even won Liam or beaten one of them in the championship.

I've no problem with that but there's no need to knock the league win for Dublin this year based on what I have said in my previous posts.

Sure the Munster title could be considered to be "an aul rinky dinky yoke" for all the good it did Tipp this year as it made them massive favourites for Liam and when push came to shove, they didn't produce on the big day.

daddydick

dcr22B wrote: »

Excuse my learned Premier friend, we won the NHL in May and came very close to getting to a final.

I just don't think two All Stars are representative of the stellar year that Dublin hurling had in 2011.

For the record, I would only have awarded us one more All Star and that would be Peter Kelly at full back.

Are you having a laugh? KK bate ye by 11 in the Leinster Final and ye were bate by 4 by Tipp in the semi final. NHL doesnt come into the reckoning when All-Stars are being selected.

In fairness Peter Kelly was unlucky but how could you take it away from Paul Curran who is an outstanding full back and had another great year? Other than that I can't think of any Dublin player who was good enough to displace any of the other 12 All-Stars this year.

dcr22B

daddydick wrote: »

Are you having a laugh? KK bate ye by 11 in the Leinster Final and ye were bate by 4 by Tipp in the semi final. NHL doesnt come into the reckoning when All-Stars are being selected.

I think you'll find that you're wrong on the latter part. League performances do have a small bearing on the All Stars in certain cases but the majority of the positions are cemented due to championship performances.

MrJoeSoap

daddydick wrote: »

Are you having a laugh? KK bate ye by 11 in the Leinster Final and ye were bate by 4 by Tipp in the semi final. NHL doesnt come into the reckoning when All-Stars are being selected.

In fairness Peter Kelly was unlucky but how could you take it away from Paul Curran who is an outstanding full back and had another great year? Other than that I can't think of any Dublin player who was good enough to displace any of the other 12 All-Stars this year.

A fairly realistic post, but could have done without the condescension.

At the end of the day, the All-Stars are always going to generate discussion and debate. But they aren't an exact science so what's the point in arguing about it?

Gerard.C

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Sure is.

Better to win the league than not win it.

Better to be on the way up than on the way down.

And better to be happy with your own achievements than to be belittling others.

Yer only achievement is that yer best player is from Tipp :pac:

dcr22B

Gerard.C wrote: »

Yer only achievement is that yer best player is from Tipp :pac:

If he's our best player, why didn't he get an All Star?

Back in your box mate.

MrJoeSoap

Check and mate. Classic stuff there Gerard.

AGC

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: »

So who do you think should have an all star ahead of Shefflin?

Ryan o'Dwyer IMO had a more effective year than Sheflin.

daddydick

AGC wrote: »

Ryan o'Dwyer IMO had a more effective year than Sheflin.

What a load of horse manure.

Shefflin 0-09, 1-09, 0-07 and 0-07 in his 4 games and played a true captains role throughout. He just tears defenses around the park. Best hurler in the history of the game IMO and another outstanding year.

O'Dwyer had a good year for a fairly limited player but nowhere near as good a year as King Henry.

PS I'm not from Kilkenny

lala88

AGC wrote: »

Ryan o'Dwyer IMO had a more effective year than Sheflin.

Are you for real? All he does in stand around and hope to pick up a handy ball to get a score. How many of his scores this year did he make for himself! To say he should get an All Star ahead of Shefflin is just madness!

AGC

daddydick wrote: »

What a load of horse manure.

Shefflin 0-09, 1-09, 0-07 and 0-07 in his 4 games and played a true captains role throughout. He just tears defenses around the park. Best hurler in the history of the game IMO and another outstanding year.

O'Dwyer had a good year for a fairly limited player but nowhere near as good a year as King Henry.

PS I'm not from Kilkenny

Not trying to take away from Sheflin, between himself and Tommy Walsh they are the best 2 players I have ever seen.

How many of those scores were from frees? Id say less than 10 scores from play all year. Compared to previous years where he has dominated everything.

Just my opinion, don't think he had an outstanding year. O'Dwyer after missing the Leinster final came back with 3-2 against limerick and had an outstanding game.

MrJoeSoap

lala88 wrote: »

Are you for real? All he does in stand around and hope to pick up a handy ball to get a score. How many of his scores this year did he make for himself! To say he should get an All Star ahead of Shefflin is just madness!

Are you for real? While I don't think O'Dwyer deserved an All-Star, he is probably one of the most dynamic and energetic Dublin players going.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg9z9Dijkeg

6:20 on... handy score alright...

lala88

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Are you for real? While I don't think O'Dwyer deserved an All-Star, he is probably one of the most dynamic and energetic Dublin players going.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg9z9Dijkeg

6:20 on... handy score alright...

wow one score. The 3 goals he got in the Limerick game were fairly handy

daddydick

AGC wrote: »

Not trying to take away from Sheflin, between himself and Tommy Walsh they are the best 2 players I have ever seen.

How many of those scores were from frees? Id say less than 10 scores from play all year. Compared to previous years where he has dominated everything.

Just my opinion, don't think he had an outstanding year. O'Dwyer after missing the Leinster final came back with 3-2 against limerick and had an outstanding game.

Exactly, one "outstanding" game...in truth he got a few goals where the ball broke to him. In his other games he scored 0-2 against Offaly, no score and sent off against Galway for an act of complete stupidity, suspended for the Leinster final as a result of the above act, 3-2 against Limerick in the QF and 0-01 in the semi versus Tipperary.

Compare to Henry's 0-01 from play v Wexford, 1-02 vs Dublin in Leinster final, 0-03 from play v Waterford in the semi and 0-02 in the All Ireland Final. Thats 1-08 from play from half forward as well as 0-24 from frees against 3-05 from play, a red card when under pressure v Galway and a suspension for a Leinster Final.

I won't even begin with the leadership, intellegence and setting up of scores from Henry.

lala88

Another player i just taught of who can feel let down not to even get nominated is Patrick Horganfrom Cork scored 3-38, 3-11 against Laois alone

premierstone

dcr22B wrote: »

I accept the standard of spring hurling is lower than that of the summer but TBH, the quality of games this year wasn't that much of a step up from the league so the gap in competitiveness between the competitions is closing IMO.

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Still, the level of disdain being shown towards Dublin is a good indication of where we're at I suppose.

dcr22B wrote: »

If this thread proves anything from the responses from Gerard C. & lala88, it is that Dublin will not get the respect from the traditional hurling counties until we have reached an All Ireland final or even won Liam or beaten one of them in the championship.

Firstly why on earth are ye taking Gerard C and lala88 as been in someway representative of traditional hurling counties and how they view Dublin, they are clearly taking the piss, well one of them certainly, and even if they were'nt why on earth do ye care, its not a popularity contest.

And just on a side dcr, your claim that there wasnt much of a step up from league to championship this year is ludicrous tbh, dont lower yourself to their level

I would have to say that it is probably the least contraversial selection in years, there is certainly no-one there who definitely shouldnt and anyone that was ommitted it really was a 50/50 decision at best, the two who I flet were unlucky and havent even been mentioned are JJ Delaney and Bonner Maher, but all in all a very fair team.

Fireball07

I think that they were fairly fair. The All-Stars are chosen on Championship performances and generally on the latter stages.

Dublin got 2...maybe Kelly could have got one ahead of Curran but it would have been close. Don't think Paul Ryan deserved one tbh...I know he scored a lot, but most of them were from frees and he was never their most dangerous forward from play.

I think Bonner Maher, Colin Fennelly and Declan Hannon would have been ahead of him. I'd have had Maher in there tbh. As for those people who say Shefflin didn't deserve one, that's crazy, he was their best forward this year. The amount of scores he creates is unbelievable.

I thought JJ losing out was harsh, I thought they might re-arrange the backline to get him in. I thought he was better than Hogan.

Gerard.C

premierstone wrote: »

Firstly why on earth are ye taking Gerard C and lala88 as been in someway representative of traditional hurling counties and how they view Dublin, they are clearly taking the piss, well one of them certainly, and even if they were'nt why on earth do ye care, its not a popularity contest.

And just on a side dcr, your claim that there wasnt much of a step up from league to championship this year is ludicrous tbh, dont lower yourself to their level

I would have to say that it is probably the least contraversial selection in years, there is certainly no-one there who definitely shouldnt and anyone that was ommitted it really was a 50/50 decision at best, the two who I flet were unlucky and havent even been mentioned are JJ Delaney and Bonner Maher, but all in all a very fair team.

whisht! if they're goin to do the buisness then they need to learn how to have the piss taken out of them!

Gerard.C

dcr22B wrote: »

If he's our best player, why didn't he get an All Star?

Back in your box mate.

Cos hes not as good as Rice, Sheflin and Richie Power is why

the_one_&_only

Its was a split decision between the 12 judges on the full back spot between Curran and Kelly. Christy Cooney had the decided vote and he choose Curran

Mountainlad

I hate the argument that a Kepper that let's in 7 or 8 goals compared to one that let in 3 can't have had a better year. It's just not true. While I would have gone for Herity up til the final, and probably even after it, he made a howler in the final. Can't remember Maguire making any real mistakes, even if the saves he made weren't as impressive as some of Heirty's. Cummins had virtually nothing to do this year to be fair, made a great save v Cork and a very good one v Clare but had little else to do.

Rebel1977

Shefflin totally deserved his all star he is still a class act and the best player I have ever seen play, and I am from Cork.