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Withhold keys until deposit returned?

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  • 22-07-2011 8:04pm
    #1
    fasttalkerchat
    Registered Users Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭


    Myself and a 2 friends are moving out of a rented house soon. There was no minimum lease and we gave the agreed one month notice. All rent was paid on time and bills are as up to date as possible.
    The landlord came in last week and had a look around and we had the house in spotless condition in preparation, however, he remarked that it needed to be cleaned before we leave. In addition to this there are a few minor things like a washer in a tap not working.

    We don't 100% trust that he will return the full deposit. Can we withhold one copy of the key until we have received the deposit? He gave us permission to make copies but he doesn't know how many we have. Is there anything legally against this, provided that we return/dispose of the key after getting the deposit back?


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    #2
    damagegt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,061 ✭✭✭damagegt


    You deposit is legaly yours.Since there is no bills or damage your deposit should be returned to you and if he house does indeed need cleaning the landlord will have to bill you.If you have any questions contact Threshold.


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    #3
    fasttalkerchat
    Registered Users Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    damagegt wrote: »
    You deposit is legaly yours.Since there is no bills or damage your deposit should be returned to you and if he house does indeed need cleaning the landlord will have to bill you.If you have any questions contact Threshold.
    So if it needs cleaned he can't take this from the deposit?

    For the record it is spotless. We will take pictures of this the day we leave for future record.


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    #4
    damagegt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,061 ✭✭✭damagegt


    fasttalkerchat wrote: »
    So if it needs cleaned he can't take this from the deposit?

    For the record it is spotless. We will take pictures of this the day we leave for future record.
    No he can not.The deposit has to be returned to you and then he may bill you any costs he incured .


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    #5
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    No. If you retain a key you are not returning full vacant possession to the landlord, and so you could continue to incur rent until you return it. This is potentially a matter for the PRTB. under section 78(1)(k) of the RTA.

    The landlord is certainly entitled to retain all or part of the deposit under certain circumstances.


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    #6
    djmcr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 237 ✭✭djmcr


    fasttalkerchat wrote: »
    Myself and a 2 friends are moving out of a rented house soon. There was no minimum lease and we gave the agreed one month notice. All rent was paid on time and bills are as up to date as possible.
    The landlord came in last week and had a look around and we had the house in spotless condition in preparation, however, he remarked that it needed to be cleaned before we leave. In addition to this there are a few minor things like a washer in a tap not working.

    We don't 100% trust that he will return the full deposit. Can we withhold one copy of the key until we have received the deposit? He gave us permission to make copies but he doesn't know how many we have. Is there anything legally against this, provided that we return/dispose of the key after getting the deposit back?

    Ask him where it needs to be cleaned, a washer in a tap not working is normal wear and tear and his responsibility to fix.

    Keeping a key will be of no use to you if he changes the locks and hopefully you are not proposing to do anything illegal with the key when you vacate the property.


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    #7
    fasttalkerchat
    Registered Users Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    djmcr wrote: »
    Ask him where it needs to be cleaned, a washer in a tap not working is normal wear and tear and his responsibility to fix.

    Keeping a key will be of no use to you if he changes the locks and hopefully you are not proposing to do anything illegal with the key when you vacate the property.
    It would be easier for him to give back our money than to change the locks. Is it right that until the deposit is returned the lease isn't fully over so it may not be against the law for us to return using the key? This wasn't my plan but just wondering.


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    #8
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    No it is wrong. The tenancy is over when you give up possession.


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    #9
    fasttalkerchat
    Registered Users Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    antoinolachtnai wrote: »
    No it is wrong. The tenancy is over when you give up possession.
    When is this?


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    #10
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    When you leave the apartment and give it back to the landlord.


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    #11
    Dymo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,561 ✭✭✭Dymo


    damagegt wrote: »
    No he can not.The deposit has to be returned to you and then he may bill you any costs he incured .

    Did you just make that up? I think you did. On that theory, I can wreck a house get my deposit back and wait for a bill?

    If you don't return the key the landlord will change the locks and the cost is taken out of your deposit. Unless the house isn't in the exact same condition as you got it bar normal wear and tear there may be reductions in your deposit.


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    #12
    fasttalkerchat
    Registered Users Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    Dymo wrote: »
    Did you just make that up? I think you did. On that theory, I can wreck a house get my deposit back and wait for a bill?

    If you don't return the key the landlord will change the locks and the cost is taken out of your deposit. Unless the house isn't in the exact same condition as you got it bar normal wear and tear there may be reductions in your deposit.
    I think the point that was made before is that if there is no damage then I am legally entitled to get back 100% of the deposit. Cleaning and wear and tear does not qualify as damage.

    (Out of common decency I am going to make sure the house is clean, and in the same condition that I got it in.)


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    #13
    Yawns
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭Yawns


    A landlord may only deduct from the deposit for damage beyond reasonable wear n tear. So if he got new carpets in last year, you rent house, move out 1 year later and carpets need to be replaced due to damage, that is above wear n tear and he can deduct.

    If he got carpets in 10 years ago and you took a years lease ended say today, he cannot keep deposit for damage to carpet as the carpet is 10 years old. Same with the cleaning. It has to be beyond reasonable wear n tear before he can deduct. Walls being painted now after 10 years since they were first painted he cannot charge you for etc.

    So give back your key and give him a written notice stating you have left the place in a clean and tidy state, all keys returned and you would like the deposit returned with 10 working days. Take pictures of the place when you leave and you should be sorted. If 10 days pass, send another letter stating you will be bringing the matter to PRTB unless deposit is paid within 3 working days. Then ring the PRTB if he still has not. However most will.


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    #14
    mari2222
    Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭mari2222


    I cannot see a problem with keeping spare keys you paid to get cut - these were not provided by the landlord, but you should not use them of course, so they are only useful if say the landlord says something will cost a tenner to fix - you could offer the spare keys instead of the tenner.


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    #15
    Dymo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,561 ✭✭✭Dymo


    Reasons why landlords hold on to deposits is because, ESB, Gas, cable and refuse bills have a habit of turning up when the tenant is long gone. Go to him with assurances and proof that all these bills are paid and show him the place is in good order same as you got it and all Keys are handed back if it is you are entitled to 100% of your deposit.


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    #16
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Take loads of pictures, and also ask him to be more specific on what needs to be cleaned. Don't accept vague comments like that. The purpose of the landlords visit is to have a face to face about any issues.


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    #17
    Magic Beans
    Closed Accounts Posts: 329 ✭✭Magic Beans


    Hand over the keys to the landlord after he has agreed that the property is a satisfactory condition in the presence of an independent witness. Arrange the meeting early enough in the day to have time to reclean any thing he may have an issue with. Agree all meter readings with him before you leave.


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    #18
    quietsailor
    Registered Users Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭quietsailor


    Magic Beans wrote: »
    Hand over the keys to the landlord after he has agreed that the property is a satisfactory condition in the presence of an independent witness. Arrange the meeting early enough in the day to have time to reclean any thing he may have an issue with. Agree all meter readings with him before you leave.



    above board landlord
    1. you should be able to meet with him, walk through the house and talk through any problems.
    2. Having the bills with you for all & any utilities so that he can read the meter himself and see that the bill is up to date.
    3. Ask him to bring a receipt book or buy one yourself; list any items in it and you both sign it.
    4. You should get your deposits back within 14 days (10 working days) I THINK (don't have a link to that, maybe someone else has)
    Dodgy Landlord
    1. It won't matter a damn about keys, he'll just change the barrell in the door lock
    2. He'll keep your deposit for the slightest excuse
    3. You'll have to go to the PRTB to get the deposit back.

    If's the dodgy breed check with the following that he is registered
    1. Local Authority
    2. PRTB
    3. Revenue (won't tell you he's registered but may add a note to his file)

    If he's dodgy, please, please, please report him, I'm sick of getting tarred with the same brush as those a**holes just because I rent out a house (ie I'm a landlord)


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    #19
    fasttalkerchat
    Registered Users Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    An update:
    The day before we were due to leave the landlord showed up unannounced and complained about the state of the place. I wasn't there at the time but I'm told that there was a few cans and the remains of a chinese lying around from the night before. Even though he knows that the lawnmower doesn't work he demanded that we cut it before we leave.

    When he arrived on the final day things were a lot different. He walked into the kitchen handed us the full deposit minus one electricity bill and said thanks and we could contact him for references etc. He let us off with our final months electric bill and everything!

    So after all he's just a bit of a strange character!


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    #20
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    fasttalkerchat wrote: »
    An update:
    The day before we were due to leave the landlord showed up unannounced and complained about the state of the place. I wasn't there at the time but I'm told that there was a few cans and the remains of a chinese lying around from the night before. Even though he knows that the lawnmower doesn't work he demanded that we cut it before we leave.

    When he arrived on the final day things were a lot different. He walked into the kitchen handed us the full deposit minus one electricity bill and said thanks and we could contact him for references etc. He let us off with our final months electric bill and everything!

    So after all he's just a bit of a strange character!

    Good to hear that things worked out so well for you.
    First off- the landlord is not supposed to turn up unannounced for an inspection- this has to be agreed with you in advance. On the plus side- it probably focused your minds and meant he actually got the place back in the order he wanted it- and you in turn got your deposit back. So- alls well that ends well, even if the ending was a tad strange......


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